RC India

I have a GT-Power 606-D charger and it has leakage current in the body when started (slight shock sensation when screws are touched). The power cable does not have earth pin (please see attached pic). I think the problem might be solved using a power cable with earth pin. My question is whether continuing like this would harm the charger in the long run? Is it common thing amongst chargers?

My turnigy accucel 6 also leaks current. .its not normal, im yet to check why it leaks current

same here, the current leakage is felt by hands on Accucell-6, i tried grounding the body and it went off but couldn't build this as permanent solution as yet.

Thanks.

The current still exists with a power cable with earth pin  >:( So may be DC power is the solution?

There could be a leak in the power supply as well. If there is a leak anywhere on the voltage rail, it will tend to appear everywhere unless dampened. You might try to change the power supply once. I haven't bothered to check with my accucel  (never felt any jhtakas) but will check tonite and update, specially around the corners.

So I have to open up the charger and replace the transformer? Are they available readily?

Hmmm, i was infact talking about the accucell which expects an external power supply. However, causes for leakage are mostly a short circuit or some rogue part. Similar Tx would be available but I don't think the physical size would match! Opening up may help to do a sanity check for any loose parts, chipped wires, touching metal, insulation lost due to heat etc...

Yes you are right. Just tried opening it up and I don't think it's possible to change the adapter inside. Also, there doesn't appear to be any loose parts touching the body. Can't really pull the PCB out. Trying too much can mess up the whole thing (If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!). Have to try an external DC power and check.

Nooo..
Before openingthe charger, just cut the plug top and fix an indian type plug Top. Thats enough. If still problem persists, you have to check the phase and neutral connection. Better you check with field tester (Costs Rs. 150/-).

This is due to stray capacitance. and this enhances when humidity rises if earth connection remain in floating condition.

Good Luck.

+1 to Kalyan Da's suggestion.

I suggest you try the screwdriver tester method first. Im not sure if you'll find a transformer inside as most supplies which are available these days are SMPS ones(which are even more prone to stray ac). It should tell you if any stray ac is running around the body. It can be fixed by changing the three pin plug with a ground connection. If the wire from the charger has only 2 cores, a simple fix is to ground the charger chassis by a small piece of wire attached to the chassis and the other end lying in a very small puddle of water (careful though) or back into the ground hole of a 3 pin socket. (hope you know the ground pin)

I used to fix grounding issues on my old comp by running a wire with a crocodile clip to the chassis and the other end to a small metal clamp which was attached to a metal water pipe.

hope it helps..

Thank you Kalyan Sir! The problem still exists with the Indian style plug (with Earth pin). The tester glows when touched to the body of the Charger.

What is checking Phase and Neutral connection? When I insert the tester into right side hole of my socket, it glows. Left side it doesn't glow. On the right side pin of my charger plug, its written N/F1 and on the left side its written S/D.


Thank you ragav_krish! Yes you are right, there is no transformer inside. Just a long adapter like laptop charger. Actually I can live with the stray current. My only worry is whether it'll damage my charger in the long run.

One more question I have is if I were to buy a DC adapter, what should be the specification. The charger says 11-18V DC. What about amps?

Maybe the ground wire from the plug isnt connected to the chassis? If you can open it up carefully, check for a wire on the chassis.

You can use a laptop charger if you have one lying around. check your polarity though. As a rule of thumb your Powersupply whould be atleast 1 or 2 amps higher than the output. The charger will shutdown automatically if it is drawing too much power from your Supply. Another alternative would be to use a junk ATX SMPS from an old comp. You can also consider investing in highpower SMPS unit, if you need to do more than just charge LiPos. I've used 25A 12V DC SMPS units and find they are a bargain for the power and life these things have.
 
Here is a video to help you : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ityrHaBLepg

I would strongly reccomend you to probably trim off/ tuck away/heat shrink the excess wires and solder a power connector onto the +12VDC rail. Trust me, you do not want to see the fireworks, esp on cheaper chineese/taiwanese SMPS units.
Cheers!

Thanks again! I have a laptop charger but the pin doesn't suit. I guess the PC SMPS would be my last option. There are way too many wires coming out of it  :o

look for a sticker on the side which identifies the wires by colour. What you want is the 12V 10A wire (usually yellow) and the ground(usually black). Some SMPS dont identify the softstart wire, but this is usually the oddly colored wire. If it doesnt identify the wires, use a multimeter and probe around. I'd start with the most commonly coloured wire (Except balck, it is standard ground)

You can buy a laptop smps charger for around 600 Rs. No fancy stuff. Ask for acer laptop pin. You can also hack away the old pin and replace it with a suitable one if the laptop charger is disposable. The laptop charger is a very convinient way of powering up your charger. Take it along with you if you are planning to buy one so that you can run a live check :)

I would still sugegst you to ground your chassis, as this seems to be the most simple way to fix the problem. Use a soldering eyelet on the ground wire and pass one of the chassis screws through the eyelet. Q.E.D!

Good luck!

Quite sure there is no Tx inside, its a switched supply, I don't know how i missed that earlier.

In an ideal world, devices are designed to have no leak but since nothing is ideal, grounding comes as an option. However, some cable manufacturers make cables that only have two wires inside. You can check using a mutlimeter; put it on ohms, one side to the earth port on the main plug, the other to the earth port in the female socket on the wire (it should read zero, indicating continuity). Many cables seem like having three pins but only have two wires connected inside (so much for cost saving). If that is the case, changing the plug top wouldn't help as well. Also check  the mickey mouse connector (the shape looks like mickey's ears and face) further has three wires, the ground being connected to the case/earthing tracks on the board.

Regarding using an alternative supply, If you're only testing (which is my guess), a 1A adapter should be more than enough, since you're not charging, the load is only of the electronics inside the charger which should be a couple of mA, and you should still be able to detect the leak. If you want to check with a battery connected, you should ideally use a rating mentioned on the charger. So if your charger has a maximum drive capacity of 3A, ideal would be something above that.

Hope that helps

PS: A bigger scenario would be if your home supply is not adequately earthed (which is what kalyanprodhan suggests, right @kalyanprodhan). Do you also get such jolts from corners of other equipment at your place, like the computer cabinets, esp barefeet. The ideal volatge between ground and neutral should be zero, but upto 10 volts maybe measured

I also share the same doubts about the AC cord. Is it detachable? If so, you can forget whatever i have said so far and simply change the AC power cord alone and see the result. :thumbsup:

By phase and neutral connection, i mean to say interchanging phase to neutral and vice versa may give frutefull result.
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Just connect the test lamp (Minimum 40 watt) from the live body part of the charger (Supposed to live which give sensation of electrocution) to the ground.

You can have an ground even with a 1' Screwdriver spicked in wet soil or similar to my method at my friend's mess. There was no spare wire, grounding option and computer runs with 2 wire supply as ground absent. I found an burnt Cu Choke. Just opened up for Cu wires, binded cores with the wire with small pill off insulation, dipped that in the nearby drain, connected to computer chesis. Hurry, the problem solved for 2 months till the wire cut and rewired by my friend again; Cheap solution! some may beangry, but I always prefer for optimum utilization)

If it glows, you need of it's maintenance. Electrically.

If it wont glow, Proper Earthing is the solution.

1) Some fungus (Looks transperent to normal eye) may also be culprit in humid condition, 2) sometimes stray capacitance/ leakage from heat sink insulation may occure.
3) Sometime, some capacitor (between chesis and phase as well as neutral) may be faulty. 4) Sometime MOV too.
5) Even ants/Small Spiders sometime may create short-circuit with chesis.
6) carbon deposition (due to high frequency leakage like inside ESP) may cause this.

Whatever may be the cause, troubleshooting option is yours, We can guide only.
But please take safety precaution first.
1) Insulate your body from earth.
2) Don't touch with bare hand/ metal tweezers in live PCB.
3) If test lamp glows, you need to take partner  during repairing/checking if you have no electrical work experience/confidence.

Good luck.

The problem is I cannot find ground wire inside. Please check the attached pics of my charger with side panels opened. Only 2 wires are coming out of the adapter. Soldering a ground wire between earth pin of the adapter and the body also appears to be difficult as the adapter face is flush with the side panel.



Kalyan sir and girishsarwal, I checked the earthing voltage between ground and neutral using a multimeter (http://www.diyable.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=49). It's 7V. The voltage between neutral and phase is 233V and ground and phase is 236V.


Yes I tried changing the chord and it doesn't make any difference.

Thank you all for your help :bow: It's much appreciated. I guess I'll have to go for an external power supply.

Regarding laptop adapter, I think my choice is limited as my charger accepts voltage between 11-18V. Most laptop adapters are rated around 18.5V. Sony (http://www.ebay.in/itm/ORIGNAL-SONY-16V-4A-6-5x4-0-MM-65W-LAPTOP-POWER-ADAPTER-PCGA-16V-/320966391040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item4abb167500) one is 16V 4.0A and seems to be the only option. Mini laptop ones are 12v but amps may not be sufficient.

So I think a SMPS, though bulky may be the best option.

You can ask for a acer aspire laptop adapter. Mine is about 16V, but amperage is only about 3.5A

The amperage is what stops me as the max amps my charger can draw is 6A. Here's a 16V 4.0A Sony compatible one (http://www.ebay.in/itm/Sony-Compatible-16V-4A-Laptop-Power-Adaptor-/150885741566?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item23217db3fe) I found on eBay. I don't think it's an original one. What do you say? Should I go for it or a PC SMPS (http://www.ebay.in/itm/iBall-Standard-400-Watts-Power-Supply-SMPS-400W-3YR-/310425270687?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item4846c9b99f) for around Rs. 800?

Hi Vishal,

I did worked on these options as you. As suggested by other members here too. finally i settled down with an SMPS based poer supply and this is just awesome.

I did went for workarounds, then a laptop supply but finally it was SMPS which was my final call.

There are some good options at HK but not worth the application here. SMPS does a great job at that price ( i bought a new one frankly as even the cost was low and charm of building one myself was mine).

The amerages play an importnat role here if charger draws maximum current say (6 A), the supply should be somewhat higher rated to fulfil the requirement of charger performing at peak load.

SMPS on the other hand quietly fulfills the condition and above all, the outputs are regulated!

The process to convert is there already posted already in this thread by Girish Sarawal (sorry if i didnt remember the exact spellings) and this should suffice your requirement as this can deliver 10A (maximum limit), your charger may only need 6A maximum at this point of time, so there is some buffer too (4A excess)for which one need not to worry about as charger will only draw specified current as per circuit requirements (unless circult gets shorted at somewhere showing abrupt behaviour, i.e. goes bad)
i would still like to point out still earthing the equipment is necessary and SMPS still doesnt gurantee that your Neutral= Earth as outlined by Kalyan. So to bring your supply's neutral closer to earth, you may still need to ground it.

Thanks

Thank you Sandeep :) I think I will go for an SMPS then. Will report the progress shortly.

Vishal,
It looks like your charger is nothing more than a Lipo balance charger with a SMPS brick powersupply in the same case.

A quick fix would be to run a small,thin wire from the ground lead to the nearest chassis screw. After this you can use a proper 3pin mains plug to get good grounding.  

I also assume there is a ground fault in your electrical wiring. Get a electrician to fix it, or DIY as we've told earlier. I dont think the leakage current is going to harm your charger besides causing temporary jolts to the user.

cheers!

Id say go for the PC SMPS. it provides ample current in case you want to charge a 6 cell! Like I've said earlier, the charger will automatically shutdown if it senses too much current being drawn from the supply.

An interesting thing about smps supplies is it can provide more current at a lower volatage. maybe .5 to 1amp extra on chineese stuff at 12V but the supply gets noisy and can sometimes shut down.

Then I think I'll live with the jolts for some time  :giggle:

Will try the thin wire fix first. Soldering it to the earth pin of the charger is the toughest job I guess. Too much will prevent the plug from going in.


I live in an apartment so fixing individual earths may not be possible I guess. Anyways I'll talk with the electrician.

Thanks a lot for your advice!

You cannot solder the wire on the ground pin. wrap it tite and slip in a small piece of heatshrink for contact.
I'd reccomend you run a temporary ground spike if you live in the ground or first floor. a simple method for temp earth is to run a wire from the chassis to a metal tumbler filled with a little water and placed on the floor :P

Consider using insulating tape on the parts where you can feel the shock ..

That's wonderful tip (heat sink) {:)}

Regarding temporary ground spike, I live in the tenth floor, so that's not possible  :giggle:

since you live in apartments, the builder should have provided adequate earthing. its a regulatory requirement and its much easier as they anyhow have to excavate almost half the depth for laying the foundation. You need to run the chassis to the earth leg. 10v p.d is on the higher side but is generally tolerable, esp in apt where there can be multiple sources of leakage.

- run a green wire from the metal chassis to the earth pin and twist it around the length of the main wire, insulate and hold using insulation tape. (see photo).

- open the plastic casing and run the earth wire to the chassis inside the charger

OR

- you can also consider using a bike battery/ups battery as a dc source as long as you have means to charge the battery when it drains. These batteries easily provide 5A/7A current and can be easily carried to the field for portable power esp. when NiCd's drop.

@sandeeppande - sir, I think ragav posted those instructions for the converison of an smps

another Idea for you is to use a OLD UPS and unplug the battery terminals. A quick check with a multimeter can tell you the current these things provide. I have a few recycled, they seem to work happily and put out far less noise compared to SMPS supplies due to the linear PS in them.

I also reccomend the motorcycle battery. You can get a 9Ah for about  :Rs: 1500. Get the maintainance free one and you have a nice portable P/S

You can use the charger to charge the motorcycle battery later on :)

I'd still say go for the old smps/ups technique.

cheers!

Thanks girishsarwal for the earthing tip but I finally went through the PC SMPS route (new one). Couldn't agree more with Sandeeppande:


There are no issues with the charger now and I think I can use this SMPS in future with other chargers too.

Thank you all, especially ragav_krish for pointing me to the SMPS method.

Cheers!

Can you reiterate....please... didnt understood your disagreement..was SMPS costly solution?

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/I+couldn%27t+agree+more

Actually I meant I 100% agree with you when you said: "i bought a new one frankly as even the cost was low and charm of building one myself was mine"

Glad to know it works well. For a LiPo safe charging box, use a metal fuse box. it is fireproof and can also be used to keep your lipos safe and locked up.

 :hatsoff:

Thanks again ragav_krish! Is it readily available in electrical shops? Sizes? Pic would be appreciated.

here are some pics. The box is 9 1/2 in lenght, 4 1/2 in wide and about 4 in deep.

The box is used to hold a Highcurrent ceramic fuse(Old type) in motor rooms. You ca buy one from any electrical shop, but I suggest you look into your nearest salvage yard/motor room. Ive seen smaller ones, use what you can find. A friend suggested lining it with foam to offer shock protection, but can be a problem in case your LiPo burns out.

Notice the provision for a lock on the box. Comes in handy when you''ve got curious kids or pets around the house.

Hope it helps

Thanks a lot! Will have to get my home ministry approval before getting this as my house is already loaded with RC stuff  :giggle: Had to create a new cupboard just to keep my RC things  ;D

LOL.

Im lucky I dont have to seek authorization from any ministry for now. The trick is to make it look a lot cheaper than what it actually costs.

I suggest you look into PVC sintex cabinets. Dont cost a lot, but does the job.

It's not the cost but the space that counts! Else they go to the Scrap dealer (Raddhi).

 {:)}

You are right. Im also running into space constraints and am constantly trying to adapt to  the teachings of japanese interior design. Sometimes the solution to a problem is to KISS(keep it simple, stupid!) from the start

I have a question and would be grateful if anybody could answer. The charger says 11-18V DC (input). What difference would it make if I put in 11V or 18V? I mean do I need to input 18V if I'm charging 5S battery?

No. You dont need 18V to charge a 5S. The Input range is specified to fit the P/S section of the charger. The Power supply on the LiPo board works fine between these voltages.Too low or too high and the MCU cuts out .

You should be fine using a a car battery to charge any specified LiPo on the field. Wouldnt it be lame if your charger couldnt charge a 5S in your car,but can do so comfortably with a laptop charger?

cheers!

Thanks again Ragav!