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« on: April 17, 2014, 12:04:43 PM »
crazycalvin
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Very excited on getting started, and good learnings - such as be responsible and steer clear of fields being used by others for safety and space reasons. Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 12:31:57 PM »
mahir.asrani
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crazycalvin
Nice Plane  Grin Drool  but u need training
and its your first flight so it happens  Head Scratching
 Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 01:25:50 PM »
theleabres
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For your first flight, you did well for using a model designed to be flown for advanced pilots.  Try a Slow Flying High Wing Trainer for longer flights.
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 02:49:27 PM »
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@crazycalvin

I read RCPs comment on your youtube page. It was indeed a good first flight!
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 03:13:26 PM »
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You built her well. Full marks for that!
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 07:15:00 PM »
utkarshg13
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Nice build. Seems like you have really worked hard on this. Try learning flying on a simulator and then come to real flying. Otherwise whatever happened at last would repeat... and its very painful too... Also, you have chosen a very fast model, try learning on a slow stick or high winger trainer.
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 08:56:02 PM »
sanjayrai55
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 Clap Clap Well done. Keep flying  Salute
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 09:05:37 PM »
v2 eagle
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This is too much already for a first flight. mine just hit the ground on launch and broke almost everything except a lipo. If he could handle this plane this good he should already be a good pilot for a 40"glider. All the best for you future endeavors.

P.S the hatch is not locked. am i the only one looking at it.

Ashok.P
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 09:22:42 PM »
crazycalvin
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Thank you all for your encouragement!

Ashok, the hatch is ideally supposed to be held closed using a couple of magnets (which I finally received today). Since I was impatient and keen to get on the flight, I used a piece of velcro (same that I used to secure the battery inside the hatch) that secures the hatch when it closes, and that join seems pretty sturdy (takes effort to rip open).
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 09:27:46 PM »
Swapnil
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I think Ashok sir was referring to the video. You just launched the jet without securing the hatch.
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 09:34:46 PM »
crazycalvin
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Maybe I am making the first time mistakes! Smiley

The hatch (I assume you are referring to the part with the hinge that is open over the nose / cockpit area before launch) has a hand grip, and hence the aircraft is launched in this configuration. As it gets launched, the wind forces the hatch shut, where it gets secured with strong magnets (or velcro, as in my case).

I still feel there is something that missed my attention or I didn't understand - request your patience here!
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 09:37:53 PM »
Swapnil
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Oh, okay. My bad!
That mechanism isn't evident from the video. The lingering hatch just catches an in-expert eye as an anomaly!
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 05:40:58 PM »
crazycalvin
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The second flight - everything went well till the disastrous loss of control towards the end! Still trying to work out why the controls stopped responding - any ideas or questions that could help get to the root cause?

It is damaged pretty bad, but I intend to repair it and get it in the air again (as long as it is air worthy and not too heavy after the repairs). After all, what are homebuilt scratch builts for?! Smiley

The expo really helped with the controls this time - much smoother.
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 06:00:04 PM »
theleabres
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If you did your post crash check and found all controls working, two things come to mind right away.

1. RX shadowed causing temporary loss of signal.

2.  ESC brownout from heat buildup

Whenever I crash, if there's no obvious cause like a torn control horn or a burnt motor (both has happened to me) , I hook everything up and start troubleshooting right there on the spot, including a range check.
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 09:09:04 PM »
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Can you give me link for plans please?
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2014, 10:27:00 PM »
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i like it good going  Thumbs Up
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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2014, 11:04:49 PM »
girishsarwal
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Great work crazycalvin...
I'd have had cold hands much much before a esc brownout Wink

Great Work... happy landings.
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 06:04:56 AM »
sanjayrai55
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Very nice  Clap Clap

Nice flying ground too! Is that the FBD Golf Course?
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2014, 08:22:52 AM »
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If you did your post crash check and found all controls working, two things come to mind right away.

1. RX shadowed causing temporary loss of signal.

2.  ESC brownout from heat buildup

Whenever I crash, if there's no obvious cause like a torn control horn or a burnt motor (both has happened to me) , I hook everything up and start troubleshooting right there on the spot, including a range check.

Thanks theleabres. I am not sure how I can check for a possible RX shadow - any tips on this?
I need to run tests on the ESC to be sure, but I've read plenty of other inputs by now regarding the Red brick 30AMP ESC (with built in BEC) not behaving up to it's rating on a variety of situations. Do your ESCs generally warm up (mine was HOT)?

I take this as a learning from you - good tip - that a basic round of trouble shooting should have done on the site itself, rather than get home and mull over it Smiley. I should be doing range checks in my preflight as well; serves me right for not being patient enough (which is strange, because when I do simulators I have the patience for a 10 minute preflight and startup sequence!) Smiley

Thanks.
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 08:25:05 AM »
crazycalvin
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Can you give me link for plans please?

All the details that you need (including plans, instructions, etc.) can be found at http://rcpowers.com/community/pages/home/. This is from the V3 package, but I believe they are going to come out with a V4 in a couple of months or so.
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2014, 08:28:57 AM »
crazycalvin
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i like it good going  Thumbs Up

Great work crazycalvin...
I'd have had cold hands much much before a esc brownout Wink

Great Work... happy landings.

Thank you for the encouragement!
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 08:31:45 AM »
crazycalvin
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Very nice  Clap Clap

Nice flying ground too! Is that the FBD Golf Course?

I wish I had the luxury of access to that Smiley
This is the running track in the stadium. I chose a Sunday afternoon with the sun out so that there wouldn't be any people there.
https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/Sports+Complex/@28.3867543,77.3256081,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x462828f258a2617c
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 01:56:07 PM »
girishsarwal
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Make a trip to Gurgaon via the Pahari rasta ... It will be fun flying together...  Thumbs Up
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 04:17:31 PM »
v2 eagle
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unless you are using any CF / metal objects radio should not be a problem.
Even if ESC brownouts your BEC should be working fine and you should be able to control its landing.
a few question:
What brand radio are you using.
what antenna does it has. pics please.
is that a new or old radio. any history if repairs to the radio.
antenna placement inside the plane.
do a ground run and see if you can reproduce the fault.
give some specs on motor/esc
how about your esc to rx connection are they strong enough to hold the vibration.

Ashok.P
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 05:56:27 PM »
theleabres
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So, the Hobbyking redbrick is a budget ESC and probably overrated.  The BEC is probably weak.

How many servos are on that plane?

Another issue is heat, do some static testing and see if the ESC gets warm only or gets very hot.

As for RX shadowing, it's common if you're using a budget RX with one short antenna.

An RX with dual and lengthy antennas around 20 - 25 cm each would be ideal.

Another simple check is to know your TX battery voltage.  I don't use rechargeable AA nimhs, only alkalines. My DX6i has a voltage meter for the batteries.

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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2014, 09:41:02 PM »
theleabres
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Good news I think I found your problem.

I have the Redbrick 30 amp esc.  I used a watt meter and a Turnigy IR thermoter.  At only 3 seconds of full throttle with 12 amps and 165 watts on the watt meter, the ESC temps went to 70C and was too hot to touch and this was the ESC in open air behind the prop.  I imagine your ESC is blanketed by foam with no fan on it so I'm sure it's overheating and shutting down completely temporarily until it cools off. 

In your static test, test it yourself with a watt meter and an IR thermometer.  If you don't the equipment, go full throttle for 10 seconds then touch the ESC.  If you can't keep your finger on it for more than a second, it's in danger of burning out.  But it's better to use the IR thermometer.
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2014, 09:47:27 PM »
crazycalvin
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Make a trip to Gurgaon via the Pahari rasta ... It will be fun flying together...  Thumbs Up
Sounds like fun - being a lone ranger in this hobby with crashes is not easy!
Where, when and what do you normally fly?
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2014, 01:06:41 AM »
crazycalvin
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unless you are using any CF / metal objects radio should not be a problem.
Even if ESC brownouts your BEC should be working fine and you should be able to control its landing.
a few question:
What brand radio are you using.
what antenna does it has. pics please.
is that a new or old radio. any history if repairs to the radio.
antenna placement inside the plane.
do a ground run and see if you can reproduce the fault.
give some specs on motor/esc
how about your esc to rx connection are they strong enough to hold the vibration.

Ashok.P


And now the learning starts!

What brand radio are you using - I am using a Turnigy 9X v2. I am planning to upgrade the firmware to er9X, but will be some time before I get there (unless there are defects in the 9X that I am not aware of and are impacting me at this stage).
what antenna does it has. pics please. - It is a 2.4 GHz antenna. There doesn't seem to be a groove to screw in the longer antenna, but I think I read about a mod / hack somewhere for this - not sure but will check. (Photographs attached)

is that a new or old radio. any history if repairs to the radio. - Brand new, no repairs
antenna placement inside the plane. - I had taped it so that it wouldn't flap around too much, but the tape itself normal paper tape. (photograph attached)
do a ground run and see if you can reproduce the fault. - I'll run the tests theleabres suggested and update shortly.
give some specs on motor/esc -
Motor: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=12919&aff=46898
Kv (rpm/v)   2200kv
Max Current (A)   34
Resistance (mh)   0
Max Voltage (V)   11, 2S~3S (7.4v to 11.1v)
Power(W)   342
ESC: 40A
Suggested Prop: 7x4(2S) ~ 5x5 (3S)
I am running a 6x4 propeller. It seems that the ESC I am using is under-rated for the motor (40A required versus 30A max amps that I have)

ESC: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=18004 This has a built in BEC. Red brick, Max amps 30A, UBEC 5V/2A, Cells: 2-3s LiPo. It seems like the UBEC did not kick in, otherwise I shouldn't have lost control authority.
Battery: 1600maH, 20C, 3S

how about your esc to rx connection are they strong enough to hold the vibration. - Connections are good and were intact post impact.

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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2014, 01:15:22 AM »
crazycalvin
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So, the Hobbyking redbrick is a budget ESC and probably overrated.  The BEC is probably weak.

How many servos are on that plane?

Another issue is heat, do some static testing and see if the ESC gets warm only or gets very hot.

As for RX shadowing, it's common if you're using a budget RX with one short antenna.

An RX with dual and lengthy antennas around 20 - 25 cm each would be ideal.

Another simple check is to know your TX battery voltage.  I don't use rechargeable AA nimhs, only alkalines. My DX6i has a voltage meter for the batteries.

I've read the same thing about the Redbrick ESC at quite a few places now.
There were only two servos (elevons only configuration).
I will do a round of static tests, but it will probably take me a day or so to be able to run them. Quick question here - since I've kept the battery at storage charge for now, before running the tests should I recharge the battery back to full?

The RX antenna is a single antenna, and is short. I have not messed around with it because I know folding it can change it's electrical length to half. Is it possible to hack in another antenna (or maybe just solder another short wire to it?)?

I use normal Zinc carbon manganese batteries for the transmitter, and the Turnigy 9X showed a voltage of 10.1 at the time of the crash (8 cells, so max voltage is less than 12V with fresh cells).

Good news I think I found your problem.

I have the Redbrick 30 amp esc.  I used a watt meter and a Turnigy IR thermoter.  At only 3 seconds of full throttle with 12 amps and 165 watts on the watt meter, the ESC temps went to 70C and was too hot to touch and this was the ESC in open air behind the prop.  I imagine your ESC is blanketed by foam with no fan on it so I'm sure it's overheating and shutting down completely temporarily until it cools off. 

In your static test, test it yourself with a watt meter and an IR thermometer.  If you don't the equipment, go full throttle for 10 seconds then touch the ESC.  If you can't keep your finger on it for more than a second, it's in danger of burning out.  But it's better to use the IR thermometer.

Wow! Terrific of you to try it out - thanks so, so much! I will run a a static test in a day or so and be able to come back with results.
The ESC, while inside the foam case, would have gotten very good ventilation because it is squarely in the middle of the air intakes.

Any specific IR Thermometer that you recommend? For measuring wattage, is a multi-meter good enough or is there a specific watt meter that you would recommend?

Thank you again!!
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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2014, 01:53:22 AM »
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Slightly dated, but a good read regarding when to consider a BEC, and why: http://www.stefanv.com/electronics/qf200105.html
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« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2014, 06:05:15 AM »
theleabres
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I use this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10786__HobbyKing_HK_010_Wattmeter_Voltage_Analyzer.html?strSearch=watt meter

and this:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8297__Turnigy_Infrared_Thermometer_33_180Celsius_.html?strSearch=thermomete
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« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2014, 08:40:46 AM »
girishsarwal
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Calvin (still dont know ur name) ... we fly close to iffco chowk... we've a few self built and out of the box electric planes..you can see all of them and directions to the field at www.rcbolt.in

Red bricks do get hot..how good is it ventilated... ?

Turnigy 9x's stock firmware and radio module do have a few glitches and they manifest in various ways.. sometime soon you'd want to upgrade to er9x and a much reliable rf module
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« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2014, 04:23:10 PM »
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And please charge your Lipo full and not in storage mode. put it in balance mode. the volt should be around 12.4 for a full Lipo.

your Lipo is 20C, so 20x1.6=32A max. and your motor is rated 34A max for a 5x5 prop at 3s but you are running a 6" prop on a 3s at a 30A esc. should be a fast drain/voltage surge/over heat trip or something that should resulted in crash.

Borrow some 40A esc from a friend and check if this issue still persist.

Ashok.P
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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2014, 06:20:43 PM »
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http://www.rcindia.org/rc-locations-and-clubs/rc-bolt/msg183309/#msg183309
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2020, 04:04:29 PM »
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Very nice attempts! Even though I am merely an armchair pilot as of now(0 min flight time) I too would suggest a high wing trainer for better handling and forgiveness for amateur/novice pilots..
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2020, 09:23:53 PM »
prabal276
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City: Toowomba, QLD
State: OUTSIDE INDIA
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1401
Join Date: Mar, 2013

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did you just bring alive a 6-year-old topic?
XD
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IndiGo Cadet Pilot!
Going on to fly the A320 with IndiGo airlines soon!
Mad about planes. All kinds, all sizes, all shapes and all makes!
 

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