I built this quad following the instructions on [dronepi](http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Drone-Pi/)
but get couldn't get it off the ground. At full throttle, it is moving sideways not able to lift completely off the ground.

Can someone please point me out the problem or guide me to the right direction
Below are the specifications for the quad.

**Turnigy D3530/14 1100KV Brushless Outrunner Motor**

Spec.
* Battery: 2~4 Cell /7.4~14.8V
* RPM: 1100kv
* Max current: 22A
* No load current: 1.6A
* Max power: 315W
* Internal resistance: 0.077 ohm
* Weight: 73g (including connectors)
* Diameter of shaft: 5mm
* Dimensions: 35x30m
* Prop size: 7.4V/12x6 14.8V/8x4
* Max thrust: 1100g
* Total Weight (4 X 73g): 292g

**Turnigy 3300mAh 3S 30C Lipo Pac**
Spec.
* Minimum Capacity: 3300mAh
* Configuration: 3S1P / 11.1v / 3Cell
* Constant Discharge: 30C
* Peak Discharge (10sec): 40C
* Pack Weight: 297g
* Pack Size: 137 x 43 x 22mm
* Charge Plug: JST-XH
* Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector
* Total Weight(1 X 297g): 297g


**450 X - Mode Alien Multicopter Quadcopter Frame**
Spec.
* Package weight: 0.655 kg
* Package size (L x W x H): 37.00 x 18.00 x 9.00 cm / 14.57 x 7.09 x 3.54 inches
* Total Weight (1 X 655g) = 655g


**Hobbyking Slowfly Propeller 10x4.5 Blue (60g)**

**HobbyKing 30A ESC 3A UBEC**
Spec.
* Constant Current: 30A
* Burst Current: 40A
* Battery: 2-4S Lipoly / 5-12s NiXX
* BEC: 5v / 3A
* Motor Type: Sensorless Brushless
* Size: 54 x 26 11mm
* Weight: 32g
* Programming Functions:
* Battery Type: Lipo /NiXX
* Brake: On / Off
* Voltage Protection: Low / Mid / High
* Protection mode: Reduce power / Cut off power
* Timing: Auto / High / Low
* Startup: Fast / Normal / Soft
* PWM Frequency: 8k / 16k
* Helicopter mode: Off / 5sec / 15sec (Start up delay)
* Total Weight(4 X 32g): 128g

**Multiwii and Megapirate AIO Flight Controller w/FTDI (ATmega 2560) V2.0**
[multiwii](https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multiwii-and-megapirate-aio-flight-controller-w-ftdi-atmega-2560-v2-0.html)


**Total Weight ~ 1432g**

Try to Post a video.

Even though the total weight isn't the main problem, it's still on the higher side. A 450 sized quad shouldn't weigh more than 1200 grams if you want good overall flight characteristics.

The frame you are using is too heavy for a 450 quad. All the 450 frames I have weigh around 250 - 300 grams including landing gear. Also, try a 2200 to 2600 mAh 3S LiPo first if you have access to one.

Have you checked the propellers? Are they cw and ccw ? Is their orientation correct?

Will Try to do that


I don't have one, have to get it from HobbyKing. Do you think it would be a good choice to replace the frame too?


Yes, the propellers are CW and CCW, and they are mounted accordingly. But since you pointed it out, I will check it again.

Thanks all. Will be back with an update.

Yes. Get one weighing 400 grams or lighter.

The max. rated thrust of 1100 grams for those motors is not with 10x4.5 props. Try 10x5.

Hey Swapnil, Thanks for your prompt reply.
Can you also tell me or provide me with the link for determining the right propeller and motor combination? Is there any guide or tutorial available for that?

The motor+prop combo depends on the use (FPV, aerial photography, fun-flying etc).

This is my first quad project, So it is just for hovering/fun flying [Just wanted to get it lift off the ground]
I was following the below tutorial on Instructables
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Drone-Pi/

My Video

@payamrastogi,

Looks like:
1. Too heavy. Leave that for the moment. Tackle it later.
2. Nose heavy. Move the lipo back an inch or two. You can do this now.

I think then it WILL lift off and hover.
Best of luck.
Regards

After watching the video, it's clear that the quad isn't properly balanced. The center of mass should lie at (or close to) the center of gravity in the x-y plane for the FC to work properly. So, like Iyer sir said, move your Lipo to the center and your problem should be solved. The section where you have placed the LiPo is for FPV gear.


Then your current setup should be okay.

A good rule of thumb is that at half throttle each motor should provide at least 30% thrust for a stable hover. Say, you are getting a max. thrust of 4000 grams with your current setup. Then, for a half-throttle hover, the total weight shouldn't be more than 1200 grams.

If you are not going to be adding any payload, there's no need to change anything.

apply some forward and right trim from your transmitter and try to takeoff.
if required give some down elevator while taking off

Hi Payam, I had a similar problem with my 450 quad and your problem seems similar. However, while you are using the MultiWii controller I was using the APM 2.5 with ArduPilot running. My problem was in the throttle setting wherein for some odd reason my Max Throttle was set to a value of 90 instead of 1000. Check the throttle parameters in your controller and set it correctly if required.

I tried to move the battery to all the way to the centre, however, the problem still persists.



I'm totally new to this domain, do you have any tutorial/guide. I'm using FlySky FS-i6 transmitter.


Let me check it. Will update you guys with a new video

Thanks All

Check the motors carefully.I think one of your motor is damaged.For more thrust try a2212dji motors 980kv or 980kv marspower motor.

I had already checked the motors they were fine, but I guess it has got something todo with ESC.

Which ESC you are using?

**HobbyKing 30A ESC 3A UBEC**
Spec.
* Constant Current: 30A
* Burst Current: 40A
* Battery: 2-4S Lipoly / 5-12s NiXX
* BEC: 5v / 3A
* Motor Type: Sensorless Brushless
* Size: 54 x 26 11mm
* Weight: 32g
* Programming Functions:
* Battery Type: Lipo /NiXX
* Brake: On / Off
* Voltage Protection: Low / Mid / High
* Protection mode: Reduce power / Cut off power
* Timing: Auto / High / Low
* Startup: Fast / Normal / Soft
* PWM Frequency: 8k / 16k
* Helicopter mode: Off / 5sec / 15sec (Start up delay)
* Total Weight(4 X 32g): 128g

Jeez....interesting to see people say that move the battery a little to get it to fly..lol..
Its a freaking quad....program it correctly and it won't matter ...there is a reason why quads have flight controllers....
As long as the c.g is between the props it shouldn't affect its capacity to ' take off' for the least.....
And if u r gonna make a quad that weighs 1300 gm on a 1200 gm thrust setup..... Goodluck flying it...

Work on the f.c bro.. That's all the difference between a quad that can do crazy stunts and a quad that struggles to hold its position in air...never mind not taking off.
Although if I were you I wouldn't feel too bad....I've seen guys at IIT struggle to get their quads fly ...

Ah, there's never a shortage of geniuses like you, mate.

Do us all a favor and stop spreading your ignorance.

What Mr. Fire is saying is correct to a certain extend and i agree to him in a case where the quad is flying perfectly and we place battery off CG on it .

But you cannot ignore the point of CG on a non maiden quad where trims, throttle, tuning, ESC, motors are not confirmed to work in sync.

For such a quad you need to first make everything possible to ideal setup.

regds
saurabh

Yes its true that if the c.g is not balanced ..the motors on one side will have to work harder than the motors on other side...and trims etc maybe needed and some turns/ rolls maybe be easier than the counter turn/ roll...
But what I am saying is that a quad with proper settings and calibration on f.c  and gyro.....will fly....irrespective of slight offset c.g.
It will not fly organic ...but will fly for sure.
@ swapnil...ignorance nahi bhai...dekha hai...friends ke quads pe dekha hai...they put camera weighing 200g in the front and 'bomb dropper 'weighing 400+ gm at the back and if u ask em about c.g¿?? They twll me its not an airplane...😂
Just giving my 2+ cents...coz I know how frustrating it is when ur bird doesn't fly....

@Imperial fire

No, what you said specifically was "As long as the c.g is between the props it shouldn't affect its capacity to ' take off' for the least"

Did you see the posted specs? Did you see the posted video?

1] The center of mass of the 300g battery is more than 4 inches away from the CG. That's a lot of torque to overcome.

2] The maximum difference in RPM between axially opposite motors is limited by the FC during take-off. In cases like these, the motors on the heavier side will give a max. thrust of 50% each while the ones on the other end will give 5% to 10%. Assuming the Turnigy motors give a max. thrust of 1000 grams each, the max. total thrust produced in the above scenario will never cross 1200 grams.



So you base your advice on 'dekha hai'? This is where one would use the words 'jeez' and 'lol'! But, you chose to use them to disprove advice given by multiple senior members and make your unsubstantiated nonsense sound like 'years of experience'.  






 

@payamrastogi

I couldn't find out much from the low resolution video, but here are a couple of probable cases.

1] One (or more) of the motors is damaged (internal breakage of wire strands)
2] The ESCs aren't properly configured for throttle limits.
3] The FC hasn't been properly set up.

An easy way to check the first two cases is to make a simple thrust measuring rig and check all 4 motor-ESC pairs. 

See I am the last guy to take offense of anything said...but my friendly was of talking by using words like ' jeez and lol ' is MY WAY... ..don't attack that...attack my arguments,...
And I am busting giving that guy an advise..that the bigger problem is not the displaced battery but f.c and oversized battery...
And god knows what problem u have with ' dekha hai'  ..yes I've seen and I've learnt by seeing ..,from friends who have won national competitions in this hobby( don't believe me ?? Come to nashik and I'll show you these guys)
Stop taking offense ...just coz someone disagrees with you .....and stop calling my advise nonsense...
I wanna help this guy out...and am offering a different perspective..

Oh, I didn't take offence in the least because you were disagreeing with me. It's because you were giving nonsense advice to a beginner.


No, you just want to flaunt your 'seemingly true' knowledge on the subject.

Payam, What is the voltage that you are getting out of that battery (after a Full Charge)?

@Imperialfire, don't get offended but I can't help but agree you sound like a real douche

Swapnil has already pointed out how it is important for the quad to be balanced when the thrust is inadequate, so won't go over that.

Your remark was unwanted and that was no way to refer to KK Iyer sir, it's about time you buzzed off.

That was the first thing that ticked me off.

And then, even after I provided numbers and facts (with an example) to back my argument, he still wouldn't admit that he made a baseless statement.

But the worst thing he did was pretending to help Mr. Payam Rastogi.



If he had actually taken the trouble to properly read the specs given in the first post, he would have realized that the total thrust is about 4000 grams and that the total weight of the quad is about 1432 grams.

But instead he made the condescending statement quoted below.

Edit:
Deleted in response to the next post by Mr Reddy.
He's right.

It seems like we all are moving away from topic. This guy has come to this blog seeking help from us. Let us not quarrel among ourselves by our correct/incorrect arguments indeed let us help him.

Sorry if I sound harsh.

Hi All,
 Thanks for your valuable advice. I was able to lift the quad off the ground after tweaking the PID values on the Flight Controller (as suggested by Mr. Fire and bolstered by others). However, it was not smooth hovering (flew sideways) and then crashed. As pointed by many members of the forum, the quad seems to be bit heavy while operating.
Can someone please suggest me (or guide me to) a better quad frame and propellers (broke one today), according to my configuration?

**Turnigy D3530/14 1100KV Brushless Outrunner Motor**

Spec.
* Battery: 2~4 Cell /7.4~14.8V
* RPM: 1100kv
* Max current: 22A
* No load current: 1.6A
* Max power: 315W
* Internal resistance: 0.077 ohm
* Weight: 73g (including connectors)
* Diameter of shaft: 5mm
* Dimensions: 35x30m
* Prop size: 7.4V/12x6 14.8V/8x4
* Max thrust: 1100g
* Total Weight (4 X 73g): 292g
https://hobbyking.com/media/file/187090947X202380X56.pdf

**Turnigy 3300mAh 3S 30C Lipo Pac**
Spec.
* Minimum Capacity: 3300mAh
* Configuration: 3S1P / 11.1v / 3Cell
* Constant Discharge: 30C
* Peak Discharge (10sec): 40C
* Pack Weight: 297g
* Pack Size: 137 x 43 x 22mm
* Charge Plug: JST-XH
* Discharge plug: 4mm Bullet-connector
* Total Weight(1 X 297g): 297g

**HobbyKing 30A ESC 3A UBEC**
Spec.
* Constant Current: 30A
* Burst Current: 40A
* Battery: 2-4S Lipoly / 5-12s NiXX
* BEC: 5v / 3A
* Motor Type: Sensorless Brushless
* Size: 54 x 26 11mm
* Weight: 32g
* Programming Functions:
* Battery Type: Lipo /NiXX
* Brake: On / Off
* Voltage Protection: Low / Mid / High
* Protection mode: Reduce power / Cut off power
* Timing: Auto / High / Low
* Startup: Fast / Normal / Soft
* PWM Frequency: 8k / 16k
* Helicopter mode: Off / 5sec / 15sec (Start up delay)
* Total Weight(4 X 32g): 128g

**Multiwii and Megapirate AIO Flight Controller w/FTDI (ATmega 2560) V2.0**
[multiwii](https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multiwii...2560-v2-0.html)

Great to know you got it to take off!

Try the following for reducing the weight.

1] Get a DJI 450 clone. There are a lot of them available. Being made of polyamide nylon, they don't weigh much and can take a lot of abuse.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/q450-v3-glass-fiber-quadcopter-frame-450mm-integrated-pcb-version.html?___store=en_us

2] Try 10x5 or 10x4.7 props with those motors.

3] Get a lower mAH LiPo. Preferebly a 2200 mAH or at most a 2600 mAH. A 3300 mAH will definitely work too. But, it's better to learn with a low weight battery.


Tweaking the PID values is the last resort for a properly configured (hardware wise) quad. That is why no one suggested that initially. If the PID values before were not close to those used for a typical 450 quad, then that must have been the only problem.

See, even if the total weight of your quad was 1800 grams, it should have been able to take off even with a small displacement between the CG and C.O.M in the horizontal body plane. But, initially your LiPo was too far from the CG and without knowing if the stock values of PID in your FC were for a 450 quad or not, the only possible solutions seemed to be moving the LiPo close to the CG or checking the motors/ ESCs.

Swapnil, Thanks for the prompt reply.
Just curious to know where can I find these "typical 450 Quad PID values". Is there any tool out there or is there any standard PID values that should be used with quads of different sizes 

where i got fome material for make rc beginner

I suggest you get a F450/Q450 clone from eBay or Amazon.in. I use the HJ450. It has taken a lot of punishment and still flies well.

@Swapnil : I am new to this but won't the 1100kV motors if used with 1050/1047 props produce more drag and thus a higher current draw? Wouldn't it be better to use 0945 or 0947 a better fit for the motors due to the higher rpm?

The depends on where are you located. Its best to go and buy foam from a shop as you can check whether it will serve your purpose. Checkout http://www.rcindia.org/rc-outlets-and-resellers/mega-list-of-all-rc-outlets-in-india/ for your location

Firstly, what I meant was that it's better to reduce the weight of a heavy quad than tweak the PID values (unless you have extra payload).

Most FCs come with stock PIDs for the frames they target. For example, FCs like APM, NAZA, Multiwii come with PID's that'll definitely get your 450 to 550 sized quad to take off. FCs like SPRacing, F3 EVO, Flyduino KISS have much lower stock PIDs as they target 250 size quads.

Try to get the AUW to 1200 grams and the stock PIDs of your FC should work. You can then tweak them according to your flying needs. If you need typical stock PIDs for a particular frame size, search on RCGroups.


@ Comet

The 10x4.7 props suffer more drag and thus provide more thrust, which is what we want. The current draw is never a problem unless you are looking for unusually long flight times. The motors Payam is using can swing 12x6 props on 2s. They should easily be able to handle 10x5 props.

The RPM has nothing to do with the prop size. It's about the wattage of the motor. A 1100kv motor can swing a 16 inch prop given that it can handle the wattage. It will of course be much larger in size and will need a high voltage LiPo.

Hi,
I am gonna buy some stuff from robu today(june 1st)
just was wondering if they are compaitible
SUNNYSKY X2216 880KV OUTRUNNER BRUSHLESS MOTOR
https://robu.in/product/sunnysky-x2216-880kv-outrunner-brushless-motor/

SIMONK 30A BLDC ESC ELECTRONIC SPEED CONTROLLER
https://robu.in/product/30a-bldc-esc-electronic-speed-controller/

Q450 QUADCOPTER FRAME - PCB VERSION
https://robu.in/product/q450-quadcopter-frame/

MPU-6050 GYRO SENSOR 2 + ACCELEROMETER
https://robu.in/product/mpu-6050-gyro-sensor-2-accelerometer/

11X4.7 SF PROPS BLACK CW CCW (2PC)
https://robu.in/product/orange-hd-propellers-114711x4-7-abs-1cw1ccw-1pair-black/

Please tell me if they're compaitible and if I can reduce cost somewhere
There are combos of generic motors and esc's available are they reliable??(link below)
https://robu.in/product/a2212-1000kv-brushless-motor-30a-esc-1045-propeller-set/
i need the quadcopter to lift atleast 500 grams excluding the quadcopter
I am gonna use arduino as flight controller and 4 x 3.7v2200 mah battery

thank you
Darshit

@kdarshit

The motor, ESC, props and frame are good.

It's advisable to use a good Flight Controller instead of using a arduino+MPU combo. The smallest mistake and you might end up with damaged props, motors and frame.

Are you planning to use a 4S 2200mAh LiPo? The max. recommended LiPo for the motors you have chosen is 3S.

You should use www.ecalc.ch to check out the compatibility and performance of your rig prior to purchasing. Anyways I ran it on ecalc.

What is the battery rating? Up to 30C max burst your battery will have issues at full throttle.  Higher than that it should not have any issues. Other than that no observed issues.

I am using a different battery
3.1 Capacity Nominal : 2600 mAh (by standard charge and discharge)
Minimum : 2550 mAh
3.2 Nominal Voltage : Average 3.7 V
3.3 Standard Charge : Constant Current and Constant Voltage (CC/CV)
Current = 1150 mA
Voltage = 4.2 V
End Current = 50 mA
3.4 Max. Charge Current : 2600 mA
3.5 Standard Discharge : Constant Current (CC)
Current = 460 mA
End Voltage = 3.0 V
3.6 Max. Discharge Current : 5200 mA (for continuous discharge)
3.7 Weight : Approx. 46.5 g

Would the battery be sufficient and i have the programming of the arduino done Its neccesary for me to use the arduino

Thank You