RC India

think there is some reason to be proud of..after all.. :o

how many of us knew this, shame on us >:(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivkar_Bapuji_Talpade

Nice to know it.

This is most probably a myth just like the flying chariot theory.

no yaar.. i've heard this long time a go infact, but was never interested...untill i found this on the net.
Also,some Indian historians have confirmed it on tv in the past.

At the time when Wright Bros. were wondering how to turn/bank their 'plane'...germans were already doing demonstrations of their flying vehicles in europe!! saw this on a discovery ch show once.

It is all about propaganda...who tells it first, u see.

some interesting info here http://www.flyingmachines.org/

thats nice( no mention of the chinese though), but i never mentioned Talpade was the first ever....Also we should try to understand why his work was never documented then..(i blame it on the "RAJ"for that)
Even today his work is apprecieted here ( not even a memorial), i guess we have always underestimated our own capabilities. may be our too much faith in the "west"  has something to do with our slave dna ! >:(

I really find it hard to belive that given the fact OUR civilization being the oldest in the world.. how we would have never ventured in this field :headscratch:.
 we have forgotten our own roots. :'(

I need to see the planes picture or a drawing at least before i can comment on such a topic  ;D. Talking is very easy may be for some people. I have also heard flying machines way back in some Hindu scriptures, a flying carpet in Arab world & many more.

Right now the fact is the Wright brothers flew the first airplane sucessfully  {:)}

Ohh,there we go again......some people will never learn i think :giggle:.

yeah some people will never learn until someone gets their pushpak vimana and visit the non-believers.

PS- some ppl need to learn how to quote.

Some ppl hate this country or what ???  
and in that case why jump around when Sachin T. scores a tonn !! :headscratch:

Thats HIS individual achievement.... Whats there to be proud of..when You, didnt do it/anything for that matter yourself ... ;)

Dear Sir,

Dont get personal and name calling. its the forum rule. btw i cant stand the CRAZY ppl who watch cricket all day. i have never liked the game nor i am proud of it. Not everyone in this country likes cricket. why not try badminton or chess which were invented in India. don't waste the day watching a game like cricket instead of doing something creative.

Thx

Edit the above two posts immediately to remove all name calling.  And let us stop this line of discussion right here.

Or I will do the honors of making them both disappear. We need to be civilized in our behavior, which means we argue without name calling.

yeah whatever happened to Democracy on this forum?

What is wrong with democracy ?  In democracy no one needs to follow any rules ?  There is only one big rule on this forum, which is to avoid name calling.  And I asked both parties... if you do not like this level of democracy, I will admit I am helpless, and I am Idi Amin.

Dear Idi,

Please dont Eat me.

Thx

Not amusing at all, until the posts are edited  :banghead:  :-X

CrazyPilot... thank you for editing the post. Now that seems to convey what needed to be said.

We will not stop people from having differences of opinion or arguing, but it needs to be done with respect for individuals.

Vector,

Please look at it this way, for once, try and see my perspective, I have come across 1000s if not more, Combat Pilots, RC Pilots, RC Builders, Scratch builders across the globe, french, Israelis, Omanis, Italians, English Americans etc etc. you know what i learnt from all those interactions ? we all speak the same language, the language of flying. Borders, countries suddenly seem to vanish there,

VIEW NO 2 . i have done some real long distance flights, say from Mumbai to Frankfurt etc, you know what i noticed in those flights ? god hasn't made any borders. countries come and go seamlessly, unless you are looking at your Nav attack system, you don't even know which country you are flying over.


Question Number 1. So why shame on us, when we belong to the same small beautiful blue planet ?.

Question Number 2. Don't you think if talpades design was viable, it would have taken off.

Question Number 3. Don't you know there are plethora of such so called Conspiracy theories, like Who Conquered Mount Everest first ? was it our known two duos or George Mallory and Irvin, was it Alva Edison or Tesla etc etc.

No 4 If Mr Talpade did fly a heavier than air machine, what was the engine he used, was it powered ? towed? or was it a glider ? if it did have a engine was it a IC engine ? there are a lot of such questions that is natural to occur in any ones mind. No? Can you or any piece of history provide with answers

No 5 do you think anything and everything found on the web is gospel truth. you know it ain't . Right?

No 6 +1 one on the cricket thing, i don't think it is correct to call a money churning, horse trading, almost most of the time fixed thing like cricket , a game. i may sound blasphemous, but can you deny this fact ? it is utter waste of time, i rather build models or fly models or design models in that time.

No7. My request to you , start having a broader look towards this wonderful planet that we are living in, you will grow up in life, you will go abroad (If not already done) one day, you will realize, Humans are just the same, cast creed color may be different. I hope you do one day, that day probably you will stop feeling ashamed with life and the fact that you are an Indian

Disclaimer. Aim was to get you thinking and certainly not to hurt, if i did in the process, believe me it was unintentional

Come on, this is an attitude we must shed. It may have been a simple glider or a powered aircraft - what does it matter. It doesn't matter at all whether Mr. Talpade's craft flew or crashed. There must have been hundreds of ppl like him doing similar things. No need to shroud a simple experiment with the enigma of culture, community, vedas and what else. The wiki page has so few details and keeps repeating the same stuff but makes extensive references to religious texts and what teachers and students. For all his designs Da Vinci isn't seen  as an early aviator!!!

May be the Wright brothers and the west (in general) win each time because they shed the enigma crap early on in their efforts and be inclusive in developing anything. While we reach to the farthest past that we can think of and make simple things so difficult and exclusive!!

Thank you Amar/Vector for editing your post... it is already looking like a beautiful day outside ;)

Sorry for the late action anwar..

CrazyPilot, it was never personal.

agustinev, I did a search on Mr.Talpade coz i had already heard about it from ppl around much before and didnt just stumble upon it by accident, ..i personally do not belive everything that is on the net and infact i keep pulling the legs of ppl living in a cyber world all the time ;).

on your #4, all i know is that it was an unmanned craft, glider to be prescise.
           #7, may i inform u that i m aware of all the ppl on this wonderful planet being the same and blah blah blah...., having spent few years of my life as a bush pilot in the US..i m sure i know all this very well. And, i also know what is the world view about us.
U say u flew till Frankfurt, i've gone beyond... Let me tell u the 'west', even today looks at us as ppl belonging to a country of "snake charmers", "Maharajas" and "Taj Mahal" dwellers  >:( (On a lighter note, me and my friends easily managed to fool our American neighbours that we belong to royal families and our parents are "maharajas" of certain provinces:giggle: )
 Moreover, they get a shock of their lives when they hear us talking in english!! and wonder how come we could afford to travel soooo far away from home....if we had any! :o

But more than all this my friend, what hurts me is that India /Indians donot/never get the kind of recognition they deserve.Thats all.

^^^^I am with Vector on the last two paragraphs.Just a small addition,not all westerners but few of them do believe this.

We do deserve recognition,just that we didn't try hard to be recognized.

hear ! hear ! +1 on thanks for being more civilized, and editing the posts

Is that it...ohh, now we can all go home and plan our own weekend fun.

Totally agree with Augustinev. We should not take pride on non-existing/un proven things. Its a truth, and lets accept it that affter inventing Zero and Pi our country was sleeping over 2 millinia, except occasional genius like Bose etc. Take out 'Rapidex GK' book see the list of modern inventors (right from pressure cooker till IC), you would hardly see any contribution from our country. The problem is that after univ like Nalanda in BC, the AD Raja's and Nawabs were busy collecting Nobel items for their Museum, instead of getting Printing Press back in 14th Century to aid mass education.

The internet is full of crack-pot stories from connotation of 'Actual meaning of Vande Mataram' and all that. We should be careful to take them as gospel truth and follow blindly.

I take pride that one Indian, like many, many other people around the globe, tried manned flight, tough unsuccessful. But it would not have been the best/most successful effort as the history stands for Wright brother for doing it first. Chinese were flying glider like devices since BC.

Even our country is full with ignorant / simple people who believe any one and dont know anything out side thier area. No wonder there are people like them in US as well. There are then very smart people in US, who along with global citizen (Metropolitan) shaped the world as we see today.

Your points does not substantiates and answer to Augustinev , apart form that TG has a valid point. This is a technology forum. Lets keep the controversies of History, Arts, and religious belief/opinion aside when putting a facts. Every religion, culture and race takes as much pride on its own. Not every claim may be relevant in science views. 

There was no intention to create any sort of controversy here. It was a simple attempt to put some interesting facts before people.  
 Things are getting out of hand here coz we are so reluctant to accept/belive/appreciete even little acheivements of our past history. And what has religion got to do with this :headscratch:
There are smart people in US..nobody is denying that, but the comman american is still oblivious abt the fact that India has made so much progress in todays times, that it has managed to become their closest(?) friend.
Why do we always begin to introspect..others seldom do so, they always push their own agenda in everything, be them wrong! " Jiski laathi...usiki bhais !" i guess.

Anyways, leave it to you all to decide..i had my say.

Amar bau ;) take it down a couple of notches and start talking flying, and RC, not controversies . we are not some Loosechange dot com or something, strong words are better avoided. two reasons (a) people will listen to you if you are humble (b) you have absolutely no idea whom are you preaching in this cyber world,
i hope you are getting the drift. i implore, stay humble, we will learn from you , the community may have something to give you. Once again don't misunderstand me, Disclaimer, same as previous

PS
that is a good mid winger you have out there, does it drop wing in hover ?
is it alloutte ka bhai behan, you are flying, i flew some , deep in the arunachal valley, good quick stop it does, no ?

Augustinev, your post does not seem to have any correlation with Vector's last post 8-)

in general (not major , not lieutenant) just general  ;)

Ps
your old avatar was better, suited SLS

I dont know just sounds strange when read as a thread. Just read his first line and your first line.
Then may be read your point (b).. If you catch my drift :(

I know, but this one is funny :) need a few days to get over it.

SunlikeStar, everyone is free to express their themselves, be it aggressively or anyhow & I m enjoying this more than before now....cyber world really seems to have taken a toll on some people.

I made a point, and it has been confirmed ! ;)

very much confirmed  :giggle: :giggle:

I missed this conversation. Late entrant.

 These are the Significant instances of humans quest of flight, which have proper records and proves behind them and can be verified. Other than these they are many claims which can't be proved or verified.

First heavier than Air objects flown by Human are Kites which were flown in China way back in 500 B.C

First person to think of flying with help of machines is Leonardo DA Vinci (1452 to 1519)

First instance of heavier than Air manned flight  i.e is in their hot Air Balloon, was made by Montgolfier brothers of France around  the year 1743.

First person to identify four vector forces, Thurst, Drag, Lift and Weight, was George Cayley, (1773-1857)

William Henson(1812-1888) and John StringFellow (1799-1883)  could not fly their plane powered by a steam engine, because steam engine was too heavy for power it produced, but latter experiment showed, Ability of their plane to fly with proper power plant.

Maxim Hiram (1840-1916), who is also inventor of machine gun, flown his plane in 1894, but it didn't had proper means to control it.

Alexandr Fyodorovich Mozhaisky (1825-1890), This son of a Russian naval officer is thought to have flown his flying apparatus in around 1882, but their are no records of this flight. His studies of Aerodynamics and Propellers are quite significant.

Otto Lilienthal (1848 –1896)- This German Civil engineer was the first person who succeeded in repeatable glider flights in History. His methodology Jump to fly marked the beginning of era of human quest to fly. This was the person who has influenced Wright brothers a lot.

The Wright brothers, Orville (1871 – 1948) and Wilbur (1867 –1912): On 14th December 1903, Wilbur won a coin toss and made his first attempt to fly, he stalled it on take-off causing some minor damage to machine, it was repaired and now it was Orville's chance on December 17th at 10.35 A.M, he was first person to fly in a heavier than air, powered, controlled machine.

These are authentic instances in the history of Human's quest to fly, which can be verified. Other than these there are many claims from many people which can't be verified of authenticated.

( These are excerpts from my Philatelic Exhibit, for which I have posted a link else where on this fora. Extensive research for making this exhibit was done from various sources)

I hope sombody verifies this with HAL Bangalore.

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submit/history/alternative-history/ancient-indian-vimanas.html

"But more than all this my friend, what hurts me is that India /Indians donot/never get the kind of recognition they deserve.Thats all."

I want to agree with you here, and I have points to prove that.

1. Western Linguists started believing that Sanskrit is the Oldest Language in Indo-European, Language group, from which all the languages comes to which 60% of this blue planet population speaks, yes including English.

2. Western Historians starts to believe that Civilization which is Known by Harappa and MohanJodaro, which is one of the oldest and most developed civilization from it's time, is in fact is Saraswati river (this is same river which have many references in Vedas) Civilization, as more and more sites of this civilization are found on the route from where Saraswati River was flowed (Satellite imagery have proved this)

Please see these Video to believe your self.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlO9kBpB1uU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQ4hIG9w7c

Yes, I already know that and, the sunken city of Dwarka (earlier rejected as a myth) has also been discovered....yet to be confirmed that its Krishna's !


anyway, found this...
http://www.gaudiya-repercussions.com/index.php?showtopic=2138

I am finding this interesting link, on Vimanas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUmL9o5Bzc0&feature=related

ya but that is going to be too much for some ppl to handle...
 :giggle:

Totally agree with Augustinev. We should not take pride on non-existing/un proven things. Its a truth, and lets accept it that affter inventing Zero and Pi our country was sleeping over 2 millinia, except occasional genius like Bose etc. Take out 'Rapidex GK' book see the list of modern inventors (right from pressure cooker till IC), you would hardly see any contribution from our country. The problem is that after univ like Nalanda in BC, the AD Raja's and Nawabs were busy collecting Nobel items for their Museum, instead of getting Printing Press back in 14th Century to aid mass education.


"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr.Carl Sagan

I dnt think talpade failed in his experiment, infact his results were better than Write bros. were their craft flew just 120' or so...Tapade's flew for 1500' before crashing  near chowpatty beach witnessed by justice Ranade and H H Maharaja Sayajirao Gaekwad III.(pl go thru links posted earlier)
Britts made sure Talpade's ''Vimana" never took off again and no physical evidence of the craft remained here as it is belived tht some Rally bros. took it away abroad.
But more than that, isnt it strange that the 'vedic' technology engine used by Mr.Talpade in his creation, has inspired todays NASA to develop similar one for their future missions?

think ancients were no brainless adiwasis afterall..as many brains, hardwired to modern tech thought otherwise..and wonder how many of them, even have the courage to dispute/ask questions regarding similar  achievements elsewhere. dnt think so...

By starting this thread, tried to show my respect towards OUR forgotten hero...unfortunately, nobody here had the courage to do so.
no probs..

Mr Gosavi

Please don't take a wrong message from here, please, my Phd topic was based on The bogus Aryan invasion theory and the glory of Saraswati Civilization, worked closely with some of the imminent archeologists and linguists, Dr Rajaram gave a prepublished copy of his book. Dr Kalyaram send his entire life time research on Saraswathi Civilization for my research, i am fully with you on the subject. my only point was, (a) Do we need to be recogonised or is the time coming for the others to feel they need to be recogonised by us, esp US, because US is not a civilization at all, Singhgad is older than US (b) When we had written Megadoota and singing poems British isles was in ice, except seals nothing lived there. Do we need to be recogonised by them ?

My point is, even if the other person is differentiating between them and us, do we need to, in this Global Village ? take vedic maths for example, is it not getting introduced slowly but steadily in schools ? why ? because it makes life easy, thats why. There is no denying, talpade did what he did and there was a conspiracy behind it, at that time and i want to believe he was stunted from growing, he was not alone, it happened to a lot of people during Raj. as a bad dream we need to forget that, and move on towards this global village. Your Call Sir.

Edit
Punctuations

WOW that's a great conversation, Like minded people on different frequencies.

We don't need any recognition, but should take pride in our achievements, and utilize our past for our future well being.


If country can be free from these Kahdi clads (and they are even stopping to wear khadi, I hear)

Is it J C Bose you are referring to?

Just my 2 bits worth. If Talpade actually did fly for whatever distance, don't you think the Brits would have resurrected the design, in due course,  and claimed it as their own? Just trying to look at things a bit rationally.

Agustine, plz dnt get me wrong either. My point was no one tried to create stories out of thin air & forcing 'em down somebodys throat as few thought so..I really appreciate ppl who are aware of the fact that we indeed belong to such a great civilization which offered so much to the world and atleast now, the world is slowly comming to terms with it. On your points (a) & (b) we do not need any recognition abt who we are & what we've done from rest..i feel however, Talpade's work did at the time require it but we know wht happened after that as it was bound to... what hurts, is what happened post 47' ? we conviniently forgot our own past and blindly accepted western philosophy !  for what, i ask...


 sushil_anand, what makes u think the Brits would R&D succesfully Mr.Talpades design..?
It may not've been just airframe, but the kind of ancient "vedic" tech powerplant (known as mercury vortex engine) reqd to propel/fly.. would've been the most difficult part. To understand the science behind it, i'm sure one would need the help of a vedic scholar with extreme knowledge in that field. And i seriously doubt how many Brits understood the Vedas back then.
dig it?

Most of the people think Brits would copy Mr. what ever's airplane design & put their name on it... I have heard this way back, only few looser will think like that way in this country who can't do any thing but every time put the blame on others like our politicians do.

How do you define a airplane? A flying object any vehicle capable of flight, generally heavier than air and driven by external force or propulsion" Yes there were gliders before Wright brothers but they are just floating machine & not a flying machine.

And yes we all travel in a world class airplane cover a long distance in a short time... all because of the hard work of great pioneers like Wright brothers & many other people who gave there best for they had the passion to fly  {:)}.

R&D would be  designing from scratch, development or improvement on an existing design. The "working prototype" was there. Understanding the technology would be secondary. How many of us who fly, use engines, electric motors etc., know - or need to know - the science behind it?

Beyond that, I see a kind of religious element in the argument. By which I mean a reliance on blind faith over all else. And there can be no rebuttal on that ground.

Please do note that I am in NO way trying to belittle great things that are proven and correctly attributed to Indians.

About Bose, again, was it J C?

plz google 'talpade' and u'll find ur ans..its easy u see..and do not post merely for the sake of an arguement.

'R&D'.
Do you think Wright brothers have done all these things, It is clearly mentioned in the books of history that Wilbur wright has studied, work done by all the aviation pioneers, and Wilbur himself had mentioned this fact at many places. Wrights are just lucky that they have done the right thing at right time. And their work started falling on right track.

It would be difficult for me to call Wrights as inventors of Flying machines,but they are first humans to fly in Controlled, powered heavier than air machine.

So I think if that achievement can be hipped so much, why not ours', there is no harm in that.

I read some where that they were just trying to make a big box kite.

Sure they did the right thing at the right time..also like to add here that We were slaves of the brits...wereas America was a free country.

I do not agree, that Wright Brothers are trying to build a Box Kite, Aviation development, was much more ahead at that time, as various people are trying to fly machines with different kind of engines.

Another unsung hero in wright brother's flight was Charlie Taylor, their bicycle shop employee, who developed engine for them, as engine manufacturers of that time, didn't given ear to develop a engine to their specifications.

So certainly they were not behind development of a big box kite.

Possibly every one should re-read the wiki page on Mr. Talpade - its full of contradictions on whether the plane flew or not. Mr.T's guru was never successful in flying his aircraft designs either. Note that the current approach to "wiki" stuf is that it can't be believed entirely!!! And if there was a mercury based engine some one would have tried it out by now. If not lets read "all about it" and make one. Whats the point of talking about zero and pi and remaining  zeros in action (or rather zeros thru inaction!!!).

Frankly Mr.T's story is definitely interesting that "we too" spent time developing flying machines long back. But thats exactly what it is - "long back"!!! Nothing to gloat over especially nothing to gloat over a wiki-page that leaks so few details. Must be easy to write these pages!!

Now, who was the guy who designed the stealth bomber...... must have read the vedas and the stealthy-shastra!!!

I will add the flight of an Indian National Army (Azad Hind Fauj) Assamese fighter pilot who supposedly flew a Japanese Mitusibishi Zero from Singapore all the way back to Sapekathi (Sivasagar) in Assam. He then hid it in a pond and it is being resurrected now. I've been trying to chase this story for the last 5 years and NOTHING has materialised so far. Plane or no plane, it still resides in the depths of the pond.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060124/asp/northeast/story_5757644.asp

There is a study of the vimanika sastra at this place. Read it (I actually did) to understand the feasibility of building and flying aircraft at 600 kmph fueled by elephant and cow urine!! Read on http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Portals/0/Publications/ReferedJournal/ACriticalStudyOfTheWorkVaimanikaShastra.pdf

tg, i dnt think wiki is responsible for the existance of this story till today...I personally had faith in this story coz i've been hearing abt it since my childhood & was there was no wiki then for sure. Wiki has simply put it before the world now.
As for 'that' engine, there was noise abt NASA developing new tech for its space missions which was lot similar to mr. Talpade's engine technology. Wether he was succesfull in his experiment or not is a matter of debate. Let us approach HAL and find out what relevent documents regarding this event are in their possesion as mentioned in wiki pages. Whats the harm...

there is nothing to gloat over, today...coz we failed to be a part of aviation history i suppose!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK-zvKmKQBc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK-zvKmKQBc#)

Awesome contribution of India to world by Rajiv Dixit. :thumbsup:
check this out you all will get to know what we Indian's are capable of....
>>>1hr 29mins.......truth about Wright Brother's :giggle:


You'll be proud of our country.
hat's off to Shri Talpade Ji :hatsoff: :salute:

talpade, recent discussion on him
(http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/a-valuable-piece-of-history/?action=dlattach;attach=703409;image)

@rcpilotacro,
Later known as Topulev, presumably!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjtN0IV_lJc#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjtN0IV_lJc#ws)