RC India

Big decision by Aviation Ministry, flying drones to be legal in India from December 1, 2018

Sir, can you kindly post the link to the notification?
Regards

Dear Sir, It is today's Press Release by Ministry of Civil Aviation. Attaching Press Release.

Regards

In this regard, to get an UIN, we will need ETA (Equipment Type Approval) for all the radios (including the DJI ones). Currently only RCB6i has that. Registraion starts from 1st December, so need to get the approval before that. Anyone with any suggestions?

Please go through the first 3 links

http://dgca.nic.in/new.htm

Press release from the Ministry of Civil Aviation - https://twitter.com/MoCA_GoI
Full DGCA Rules - http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D3X-X1.pdf
FAQ - http://dgca.nic.in/cars/RPS-FAQs.pdf
Do's and Don'ts - http://dgca.nic.in/cars/RPAS-Do's%20and%20Don'ts.pdf

It looks like these rules have most of the same problems as previous iterations of the rules. This is pretty disappointing since it means the several years they wasted to make these rules while a 'ban' was in effect was pretty much useless since what they came up with is both overly restrictive and almost impossible to follow for hobby pilots. Skimming over the document, the biggest problems I find are -

• requirement for VLOS operation (450m according to them) - this just means FPV pilots will have to continue ignoring the rules since they couldn't even take into account the possibility of a spotter. I'm not sure how much influence the AMAI letter carried but this pretty disappointing anyway
• mandatory equipment including GNSS tracking, RTH capability and "RFID and GSM SIM Card/ NPNT compliant for APP based real time tracking" (does anyone know what this even is or where it will come from??) on all models weighing over 250g
• too many specifications required on 'locally manufactured RPAS'. If this covers DIY models there is no way most people will be able to provide these details for their aircraft.

I'm sure I missed more points since I need more time to read it. I'd love to be proven wrong, but to me these rules seem pretty much useless from the perspective of hobby pilots and probably will not change anything. If a several year 'ban' did not stop people from flying, poorly written and hard to enforce rules probably won't make much difference either.

Do hobby rc planes also fall under rpas/drones?

Dear SK1701, You may or may have read everything and pointed our all the negative thing about the news but there is only one major point that you terribly missed and that is "Positive News for Hobby Lovers". Definitely there may be many short coming(s) but slowly and steadily it is coming in Right Direction and by the time you make a decision to permanently stay in India, may be by that time everything and every rule will be according to the country that u are staying now.

Regards,

The increased weight limit of upto 2Kg in the Micro category is good news as we had repeatedly written to them to change the classifications. But other provisions do not appear to be too favorable or practical.

Dear Sir pravesh736 , Anything that is unmanned and remotely controlled.

More rules and regulations are going to follow after this. Will be more clear in the coming days.

Regards,

In case of Micro RPA, informing the local police before every flight is impractical. The website should have provisions to enter the details instead of going to the police station everytime.

So many impractical stuffs, and these opportunist companies trying to monopolize whatever they can.

Hi, thank you. That was vague and even I knew that. But wanted some more clarity.

After going through the regulations I find that it is  pretty much impossible to comply with the provisions of the regulations except for the Nano category drones (which are toys). Don't bother applying for UIN or UAOP for existing drones or for new ones. You'd get in such legal tangles that it would require the rest of your life to untangle. The existing blanket ban would have been simpler.

After carefully reading here are my thoughts -
1> It's physically impossible to fit all the electronic gear required by the govt in a micro drone. Where do you get the Npnt software ? Etc.
2> foreigners are not permitted to fly drones.this is nonsense , what if I am a foreigner residing in India.
3>why do you have to register each and every drone , can't we just get the pilot and give him/her a unique number to stick to his drones.
4>importing is still going to be a headache
5>no regard has been given to fpv and recreational flyers.

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Affixing fire resistant number plates on micro drones like DJI Spark or DJI Mavic is impossible. It would increase the weight and there is no surface to affix such a plate without affecting sensors. In USA they fix the number in the battery compartment using a  paper.

They haven't specified the size of the plate. So, A thin aluminium plate with the numbers engraved will work. I don't think that will be problem. And aluminium won't affect the sensors either.

Designation of Areas into Red, Yellow and Green areas and automatic permission on a mobile based app are a major positives in the slowly Improving Guidelines I believe.

Interesting Read quoted below. Definitely on the levels of an encouraging improvements in the new guidelines. Nevertheless should be getting more liberalized as time passes or will get more stringent based on the response of the environment.

Operations through Digital Platform:
Operations of RPAS to be enabled through Digital Sky Platform. The RPAS operations will be based on NPNT (No Permission, No Take off). The details including links for the digital sky platform shall be available in DGCA website from 1st December, 2018. There will be different colour zones visible to the applicant while applying in the digital sky platform, viz, Red Zone: flying not permitted, Yellow Zone (controlled airspace): permission required before flying, andGreen Zone (uncontrolled airspace): automatic permission.

What is the relevance here for RC Airplanes?

" The mandatory equipment required for operation of RPAS except nano category are (a) GNSS (GPS), (b) Return-To-Home (RTH), (c) Anti-collision light, (d) ID-Plate, (e)  Flight controller with flight data logging capability, and (f) RF ID and SIM/ No-Permission No Take off (NPNT). "

Sir entire document is silent about aspects of Aeromodelling without Payload.

I believe one more addendum to this to cover aspects of Aeromodelling LOS flights in green area is very much in order.

Yes sir, indeed. But how?

Enough representations have already been made

Yes Sir, definitely enough representation have been made and they have just not shown any interest with Aeromodelling activity.

Once the system is going to be up. The entire system is going to be flooded with UINs, Data of Pilots and Data of RPAS flight plans and application for approval.

With the amount flooding of information of intimation of automatic approval in green area conveyed to Police Dept, they will automatically loose interest in you and slowly find ways to simplify this deluge. This excitement and hyperventilation about Drones in media will also die its own slow death moment it is legal.

I for one believe, the amount of Wedding Photographers with DJI have almost over taken the amount of Serious Aeromodellers in the present context. They will keep them busy for quite some time while you can freely participate in our activity safely. They will never develop interest in our activity. Institutions and Colleges are as it is exempted for aeromodelling activity.

After all its their job to make it implementable and get the systems up and about and running and claim that they have been successful and it is now allowed to fly drones for agriculture, research and other activity like any other advancing nations.

Guy's just relax !!!
The current CAR is for RPA's (that is for multi-copters/drones)
Two things are clear from the CAR
1. If you want to fly a multi rotor above 50 feet and in other than nano or micro you will have to abide by the rules. Whether one likes it or not. That is the law.
2. The language of the CAR is clear in that it does not include traditional aeromodels. Thereby leaving room for separate rules for traditional aeromodelling community. This also goes in line with efforts being taken to have separate rules for aeromodelling. DGCA may involve ACI in that and that is good news.    

Just read and interpret Para 1.1 of the CAR and you will see the light. The same is also evident at Para 1 of the FAQ

Absolutely Captain Manish.

That's the same opinion of other stalwarts in AMAI too. I believe a draft CAR Aeromodelling specific has already been submitted to DGCA and is well received by them and a separate CAR for Aeromodelling is likely to be issued in due course.

Yes sir that's right

Four years to evolve some simple rules, and then coming up with stuff like anti collision lights?

Reproducing below my email of 12.10.2014 to DGCA in response to their notification of 7.10.14:

Respected Sir,
This is further to earlier email.
It seems to me that there is a simple way to address the the safety and security concerns of DGCA, without curtailing the rights of hobbyists to enjoy their hobby.

1. DGCA could set up a website for flyers of remote controlled aircraft models to register on
2. Flyers of RC aircraft models can register by providing their name, ID, address, phone number, transmitter frequency and location of usual flying site, and get a registration number.
3. Flyers of non remote controlled models need not register.
4. Main restrictions can be:
- weight not to exceed 5kg
- no flight above 400 ft
- no flight within 5km of an ATC airport
- no flight over public or vehicles or houses. Rules for permission can be worked out.

The DGCA registration can be like a car numberplate. Flyers can proudly display on their models.

Anyone caught in suspicious circumstances can easily be identified as a bonafide hobbyist or not.

I sincerely hope that you would consider these suggestions.
You would recall that for many decades we were not allowed to photograph airports, something that is now allowed.

Sir, all aeromodellers are not necessarily enemies of the State.

Yours faithfully,
K.K.Iyer
Retired Director
State Bank Foundation Institute
Indore.

Respected Sir,
Does your captioned notice mean that that all recreational flying by aeromodellers is to be stopped?
Since i have been an aeromodeller for the last 45 years, and i and my wife fly RC models at an empty plot on sundays with a few friends, i need to know if it is still legal to do so.
Regards
K K Iyer,
Retired Director,
State Bank Foundation Institute
Indore

All our similar letters, comments, averments, representations etc were probably never even opened irrespective of the mode one employed to deliver those.

The draft that was published for public consultation in 2014 was binned. Then came Draft V2.0 during end 2017 which has been worked upon and now published in the form of CAR.

     

Could you please point out where this draft makes a distinction between fixed-wing and multirotor aircraft? Reading the paragraphs you mentioned all model aircraft seem to be classified as RPAs.

I'm also curious how they plan to implement the NPNT system - there is no way they will be able to add it to hobby grade/ open source hardware, the question is if they will be able to get big manufacturers to implement it before sales in India.

Reminds me of another example.

Oneof the fastest growing job opportunities currently is fast food delivery.
Like zomato, swiggy etc.
Hundreds of youngsters got an opportunity to earn a living.

And you know what the RTO found?

That these boys were using two wheelers for ‘commercial activity’
Hence must be registered as ‘commercial ‘ vehicles and ‘commercial ‘ drivers!

It’s not hard to kill off any new initiative...

Back to the subject.
This 2kg limit means no more 40 size models!

They are talking about drones being legal in India...  but as per the rules.. what if one has a fully customized drone...  not a DJI or any ready to fly drone.. all my machines are custom designed...  how can that be registered? also what about importing of drones..  how people can import drones? they must also make rules on importing drones & its accessories

SK
Read the mentioned para again.

Who will pay fees of Rs.25000 or Rs.10000?
In rc hobby, we always try to get cheap products because of your budget and mostly beginner always buy cheap items. So, how hobbyist will pay Rs.25000 or Rs.10000.
For me, Drone is just a like flying thing. Drone is just a Quadcopter or multi rotor.Who wants to lose expensive thing?
We all become law breaker because of our government rules.
"We're hobbyists not criminals"

I tried my best to find the difference between aeromodelling and multi rotors in the draft but failed. Could you please show me where it says aeromodelling is exempted from all these rules? Everyone is in the same shoes here.

Difference pointed out at AMAI Forum

(http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/flying-drones-to-be-legal-in-india/?action=dlattach;attach=736780;image)

Does't the Model Aircraft becomes RPA if its piloted by a remote????

Yes, it does, people will decipher however they want. 
Everything controlled in air by remote is a rpa.

DGCA smh  :-\ :-\
(https://imgur.com/a/cNtNqkf)

   

Yes sir, it does. Thats why i asked how aeromodelling is exempted from the rules when they are remotely operated too.

.............................?

For anyone who cares,

Its clearly indicated at 1.1 that RPA, Autonomous Aircraft and Model aircrafts are various sub sets of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS).
Therefore it implies that both  RPA and Model Aircrafts are UAS. But all UAS are not model aircraft or RPA. Thereby clearly bringing out difference between an RPA and Model Aircraft.
 
Now see the heading of the CAR. And further Para 1.2 and 1.3 which specifically deals with RPA.
Doesn't the fact that the CAR is meant for RPA stand out like a 100 watt bulb lighting up in a dark room ?

There will be a different set of regulation for Model aircraft's. People are involved and talking to Govt rule making setup. Timeline is anyone's guess.

Hope that clarifies 

Absolutely not. That would be UAS as per DGCA/ICAO 

won't UAS operated with a Remote Control fall in the category of RPAS

Thank u. Hopeful that different rules come out for model aircrafts.

Too much confusion due to weird rules & terminologies :D
Add- Technically anything with remote control is rpa I think

have'nt read thru the relevant documents ,
 but are there any para/sections which define the terms RPA and Model Aircraft ?
or maybe they are defined elsewhere.

in general law .... terms are always open to various interpretations unless defined beyond
all ambiguity in the beginning of the Act or set of rules being framed .

Sir, can you please explain what a Model Aircraft is ?

Ah! A silver lining in the draconian rules. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Also does this mean the blanket ban stays till rules for model aircraft is out?

All aerial vehicles that are remotely operated will be under the category of UAS.
Within UAS, the rules have differentiated between RPA, Model aircraft and such

Yes! why not? But I will stick to the CAR that we are all discussing.

"A model aircraft is an UAS that is not a RPA or autonomous aircraft"

So if your model aircraft has autonomous capability it ceases to be a model aircraft. Same, if it meets the criteria as in the subject CAR.    

Regarding the blanket ban, Yes! that order is not rescinded. Further even this CAR comes into effect only from Dec 2018. So assuming that one meets all the conditions and wants to fly a RPA above the Micro category above 50 feet you can legally do so in a approved area only after the CAR comes into effect.   

The big corporate and manufacturing concerns that have been lobbying will easily pay. The current CAR is for RPA's. That's where the big money is and what the big boys are interested in.
This CAR is not for you or I hobbyists

"A model aircraft is an UAS that is not a RPA or autonomous aircraft"


the above is your wording or official definition that is documented ?

if official then can easily be appealed on the basic premise that "definition" is what an object
"is" and  not what it is "not"


if your wording - then it has the same locus standi as the others

I gave what I read from the language of the document.
Rest is for the rest to interpret.
I have no more to say in this regard other than, this CAR is not for Aeromodelling in traditional sense

As far as I read and understand, it says that

1.1 Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA), autonomous aircraft and model aircraft are various sub-sets of unmanned aircraft. Unmanned aircraft system (UAS) is an aircraft and its associated elements, which are operated with no pilot on board.

Meaning,

RPA's, Autonomous aircraft and model aircraft are different things which fall under a set called UAS. Technically speaking they all mean the same. But RPA's are mostly used in Military, Navy, Army, Air Force,etc., what not.

But here in the CAR, it identifies it as separate things clearly. This particular CAR is for RPA's and not for autonomous aircraft or model aircraft. We need to wait until they release the new ones.

Fingers crossed.

(http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/flying-drones-to-be-legal-in-india/?action=dlattach;attach=736789;image)

If I may ask what's the source of this picture Sir.

As per what you are saying RPA's refer mainly to the defence and/or Govt Organisations. If that was the case, then there was no requirement to include "individual(s)" as mentioned in the CAR. Also, "C" in CAR refers to the Civil part. Hence I don't think there will be anymore rule for the hobbyist, but there will be several iterations of this CAR, as happens with all law and order, they evolve over time.

For Post #55 and #56

As I said in the first line, "As far as I read and understand"

It is purely my understanding and my representation of the picture from what was said in the para1.1

Whatever the end of this discussion will be, nothing going to happen until unless we work in mass to write to the public grievance cell. Duties mentioned in the Article 51(H) of Indian Constitution to develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform give us total freedom to use our skills to research, recreate, invent. This clause helps us a lot.
 The reason I mentioning here about PG cell is my past. I am an Amateur Radio Operator, and a few years back we faced a lot of trouble getting ourself cleared from Intelligence Bureau clearance for getting a license. What we did was massively putting grievances and RTI to the ministry asking for the various doubts on repetitive manner. The rules were there from pre-independence era to stop Indians to get a license.
 For the info of you guys, the WPC wing of Communication Ministry was so busy with our RTIs and PGs that, all the work it had to do in office was replying to each and other RTI or complaint. Finally, they gave up and amended the rules to the fact that no terrorist or Naxal going to apply for a license if they have to operate illegally.
 What I did today morning was the same. I put a complaint in PG cell to Civil Aviation ministry and now I want those who really believe me or knows what happened in Amateur Radio Hobby in India in last few years should fill their grievance. Later on, we can file RTI if they close our grievance without any solution.
 Let's have it. Let's flood the ministry of Civil aviation with a lot of grievances, followed by RTI after 1 month.

A most excellent post .....
 

How does one lodge a grievance ?..

 https://pgportal.gov.in   (https://pgportal.gov.in)

Excellent post and exactly what we should do to get things corrected.

To save your time in drafting the grievance. I am hereby pasting my grievance that was exactly put on PG portal. You can use it as it is or adds, subtracts whatever you like, dislike. My aim is to have a less painful or easier licensing process for Non-Commercial Amateur, Hobby and recreational flyers and modelers.

Copy and paste from here-
Regarding Requirements for Operation of Civil Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (RPAS).
 There is no mention about Recreational Aeromodellers who make their own Aeromodel of Fixed and Rotating Wing in the rule.  It will be difficult for such flyers to register as the model name and the serial number of such self-made drones and planes will not be available.
The Hobby of Recreational flying in India is more than four-decade-old and uses from fueled engines to BLDC motors, transmitters receivers. There is no mention about importing of such goods and approval from DGCA as Customs stopping them citing the DGCA approval.
The aeromodelling and recreational flying in uncontrolled flying zones have not been defined in the rules which will be in effect from December 1, 2019.
The use of Spotters in case of Visible Line of Sight flying is also not mentioned in the said rules.
No Official or spokesperson has been notified in the rule to clarify the doubts over Phone or mail id for persons interested to clarify some doubts besides the issues mentioned in the rules.
Most importantly, the 250 Grams for Nano segment of Drones is only applicable to toy drones available from Chinese manufacturers and not Indian aero-modelers who can't make drones in 250 Grams limit. So increasing the weight limit for Nano segment for noncommercial aeromodelling is highly solicited.

Please resolve the issues in order to avail the Aeromodelling community a freedom to design, fly and make some inventions which is ultimately going to help Make In India policy of Current Govt and also will support the Fundamental Duties mentioned in the Article 51(H) of Indian Constitution  to develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform.

This is a CAR for Civil Drones. Not forAeromodellers. 100% confirmed. CAR for regulating aeromodelling will follow. Will take time..

Regards
Laxman Suthar
Treasurer of AMAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9q17CPduSA

Made a video to summarise the rules

Till those separate set of rules come out. Everything falls under Car and has to be followed by aeromodelers too.

Good to hear that. Please also guide as to what steps we all need to take, to represent the Aeromodelling community.

That's a reassuring silver lining in the Dark Clouds.   :thumbsup:

@ KK Iyer Sir,
Won't a" Model Aircraft" with power, & controlled by a Tx- Rx , come under Remotely Piloted Aircraft ?
Sir, have you seen some videos posted here ?
Under 2 kg , need UIN ?????
Please explain,
DRONE .......? (autonomous flying capability)
Quadcopter ....?(RPA) ?
And a fixed wing can carry MORE "disaster" ........? !!!!!



Feels like a ----  among ----- !

I expect (and hope) that Laxmansuthar sir’s post is the correct status, ie, that separate rules for model aircraft (fixed wing) are likely.
Whether helis will be considered model aircraft or drones is not known. This needs to be addressed.

Pending separate fixed wing rules, it would only be safe to assume that these ‘drone’ regulations apply to model airplanes too. I doubt if one could claim immunity for a jet or 50+cc airplanes. Even a 40 size trainer typically weighs ~2.5kg, ie, over the 2kg limit.

Probably the only way to fly is as part of an educational institution, or at a private field.

Fortunately of some of us, one of the local jet flyers has a private field, with an air conditioned hangar(!)
Another has a private field from where he operates paramotor joyrides.
A third owns a cricket ground...
All are well away from populated areas.

For the last 2 months, no flying, as these fields are inaccessible without an SUV during monsoon.

We will see how things develop once the rains stop.

Thank you, Iyer sir.
 One more thing,  is it permissible to fly over a private property ( ie a large estate)?

I sure hope so!

Hobbyist

I am not a hobbit @newpg202
Are you??

No not me! Thanks for reading my post!

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