Hi Guys,

I was just reading today's newspaper and the above heading caught my attention, its on the first page of TOI..

The custom officials at the mumbai port trust have decided that they will destroy all the radio operated planes about 3,000 imported from china, taiwan & korea on the grounds that they pose a serious security threat. These planes especially the chinese planes can intercept frequency bands used by their security agencies.  

And in india the models can only be flown on Amplitude Modulation (AM).  As per the national frequency allocation table the frequency spots 27,004 kilohertz (khz), 27,116khz, 27,148khz, 27,156khz, 27,228khz are ear-marked for RC aircraft.

I guess there wont be much of importing nw   Congress Zindabad  

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/3000-Chinese-radio-planes-to-be-destroyed/articleshow/4839884.cms

Since they mention radio equipment, they must be the cheap Chinese RTF ones.

"Importing" You kidding?? We are looking at a sort of ban here!! But according to what I know the 27Mhz and the 2.4Ghz are delicensed and can be used.  Use of 72, 40 Mhz etc is illegal in India.  Officials cannot ban 2.4Ghz since all our wireless devices transmit in 2.4Ghz!  But making those custom officials understand about everything is going to be a pain.  As I was typing this, I got TOI (Chennai edition) and I dont see anything mentioned in Atul's post.  Probably the rule is being framed by Mumbai officials only!! Bad break dude!!

I always carry a printout of the govt webpage where the delicensing rules are written and it clearly specifies that use of 27Mhz and 2.4Ghz is permitted!!

But yet again India has proved to abhor us aeromodellers !!

And I heard that the Turbine Jet Championships might be held in India in 2010 or max 2011!!

With absolutely no kind of motivation from the Indian govt., how are we expected to host such a mega event here let alone participate??

- Chan

They mention repeatedly that "state" rules are violated, not "national" rules.  I guess this is a Maharashtra only thing (for now?), and that is probably why it is not showing up in other editions of TOI.

that maybe the case, but as chan said 72 will be illegal. most of us use 72, so what will be now ?

2.4GHZ!!!!!

hmmm..
good news for dealers..
 

Yep, yet another reason for 2.4  

And remember, Futaba rocks    

PS: It is like getting married; now that it is a done deal (bought Futaba already!), one's girl/wife is the prettiest (Futaba is the best), no matter how many others (even better ones) are out there      

agree with u..
i m glad i have two of them
 

I guess these are the toy class .
I think this is nth time we are having this ban matter  got a bit sick of it though.
I think it is better for us not to make too much of these on the net god knows whom you will wake up with the noise we are making

sai

Anwar ,
I did not think you are the one married to the Futaba family LOL

Sai

Anwar has vouched his daughter for the Futaba family... That is one wedding I won't want to miss... Guess Anwar is just preparing himself for the big day...

Saju

That is indeed sad.
Bad news for importers in MH. I think there were several companies who were trying to import new ARFs, IndianHobbies being one of them ? ( i was awaiting the BlackHorse ARFs ).

Perhaps time for everyone to stock the 2.4Ghz radios, as now there is a very big reason for people to opt form them instead of the 72Mhz ones.

On a lighter note, we all are happy that very soon the RCIndia community would be "related" to the Futaba family, and hopefully Anwar, will share the "gifts" from this alliance ! 

Gaurav

There is no ban on importing planes, only those RTF ones using illegal frequencies. What can a few balsa sticks stuck in shape with flimsy covering do to anyone - except of course making ppl drool and wanting them to buy a truck load of those 

Hey,
Why don't we form an association or club of RCINDIA members, register the association  and Issue ID's and collect contact details, address etc  etc tabulate it and post it on the site so that any governmental agency can verify the same as verified  aero Modelers .
With the membership we could be a PAN Indian official Club who meet on the Net.

I know some of you might throw stones at me for this 

good idea sir,
but lets not do it until there is complete ban on flying, bcz if we took such step now, probably flying may be banned if it not have to be..
so lets make legal plans, and be ready , if such situation occurs we can request a meeting with the officials..
otherwise we will protest 
anyways nothing gonna stop us to fly 

I have always said this. Associations should be local, at least to start off.  Because most of the time, the issue can be resolved with the local authorities. 

Of course, if there is an issue that effects everyone, all associations can come together and raise the issue with higher authorities. 

RC India can be the co-ordinating point, but we don't want to be in the ID issuing business.  That is best done locally.

Amir, is that Futaba or...... !!!

I think this forum could  do good to the hobby by rallying round individual city  clubs and their office bearers .

Sai

Is ToI always scare-mongering RC ? 

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/582847.cms

Some response.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/City/Mumbai/Enthusiasts-say-law-is-half-baked/articleshow/4839578.cms

really it is scary to read the news today morning...

well the news also have a typo, which states KHz instead of MHz.

Even we accept the typo error then also there iare not much Tx/Rx  on 27MHz band.
The WPC (Wireless Planning and Coordination) should change the 1951 Wireless & Telegraph act to accomodate more frequency
At least 35MHz, 40MHz, 72MHz and 2.44GHz.

I think there are many RC enthusiasts who hold top positions in Govt.
They should come out now and help survive this hobby.

why not a signature campaign, and we should involve ministry of tourism, Youth affairs and Sports to look into this matter?

I think talking to the media may help spread the message, than talking to the officials.  The media will convey the message to a broader audience, including officials who are otherwise not easily approachable.

The earlier article I posted with response from RC fliers is a good step. 

If the government is worried about the use of these items for acts of terrorism, they should very well be aware that all these are available here in one form  or the other. Balsa/ply/foam is available, glue is available, motors, batteries, IC engines etc are available, radio equipment is available in the "legal" 27Mhz band; and so on.  Preventing new stuff is not going to deter people who are determined to cause trouble.

A good/great way of publicity is to have public shows. These are preferrably not flying shows but just static displays of models. For example get all your models out and put them up on a static display say at a mall in the city. Let ppl come and see these, learn about the stuff, meet modellers get to know what this hobby is about. I've seen similar mall shows abroad and those are pretty good at generating participation.

lets be prepared for any case!!
and lets enjoy the hobby to the fullest until there is some legal seriousness ( hope it shud not ).

and as the case is sensitive we need to take lot of precautions,
let not do anything which may caught their attention.. fly with extreme care , dnt take risks , fly at definite places, probably far frm population.. dnt try to do risky maneuvers (atleast not this time),
its important for now, as if anything wrong happened they are gonna screw us...and it will effect the hobby in whole country..
lets pray that the news be limited to what it exactly said.

ok guys the exams are over and another big big big big trouble just about half an hour ago
ndtv had a report on toy rc planes used for terrorist activities.

They have Said that a permanent ban of use of these flying crafts have been issued in mumbai

i was supposed to fly tomorrow but i and pramod bhaiya are not flying due to this situation though i can fly in a place far away from people but even if a person calls out the police i am doomed.

they also said that they have a payload of 8-9 kg that probably refers to glow then

and i wish there was a formal club in mumbai where i could fly

awaiting further news
 

Chan,
Good that you carry the GSR order, but if you have cared to read the order it also says "as long as the equipment used is type approved by WPC" this read in conjugation with the FAQ's on WPC site would enlighten you on this aspect and so may be you would also need to carry a type approval certificate for the Tx Rx set/s you are using. Without which the GSR order is of no use and you are still flying illegaly

Guys , I think let us chill out and not make too much noise.

Internet is open hence  can create more problems than there already is.

Lets not give too much wind to the fire set by TOI  and blow up a regional problem to be a national problem

Let the matter die out of  the forum .

sai


Anwar : Please lock this thread  it would be better for all of us

I am sorry, but I do not see the point (nor the need) for locking this thread.  Plus, we do not want to be dictatorial when it comes to published content on this forum.

If rules written in 1950s need to be changed, they need to be changed.  Yes, our security situation is different from many other countries,  but it does not seem too different from many other countries (US, Israel, etc) who face similar challenges.  Yet RC is perfectly allowed and promoted in those countries, and the concern is primarily about personal safety.

Doesn't anyone realize that anyone can build a TX-RX combo of a few channels and probably much better range using commonly available parts ?  And that too in an age when people are building microlights in their backyards using locally available components !

Of course it is another situation when some of the Chinese cheap crap causes intereferences to official wireless communication systems etc, then they should be banned (I read of instances where mobile phones from China had no IMEI, and had to be banned; also there were reports of Chinese radios that could be tuned into police frequencies). 

But blanket bans are just lack of knowledge/foresight.

please sai uncle never even think of locking this thread

first it was the monsoon and now it is this when are we supposed to fly then yesterday i was about to fly but i was scared if my planes were ceased how would i ever get them back

exactly the rules need to be changed i am so pissed off with these people

just think if this problem were to arise in chennai or sholavaram will the suggestion of locking this thread still be there i guess many many more would join this discussion

i cant go out and strike against the authorities this forum is acts like mean of transport. hopefully they will understand and remove the PERMANENT BAN around here. 

this hobby has just surfaced recently if this were not to be supported by govt. then when will it be.

go ahead create some authorities from where you have to register your planes and yourself or even put a tracker in your plane so you can identify it is a friendly and shoot others down. but dont ban it.

also check for interference and suggest some precautions to be taken

permanent ban is not some thing which i being from mumbai ever expected. 


subbu

Subbu -

Getting "pissed off" is easy, does not achieve much.  What we need to remember is that the root cause is ignorance.

Discussion here should revolve around how this is a genuine hobby that makes flying possible, affordable and secure to the vast majority of people who are unable to fly real planes; and how other countries are making this possible with appropriate legal frameworks.

Hold on. Have you ever wondered what would happen if you lost control of your  plane and it flew off and hit some one injuring them or damaging property. Would you be legally bound to provide compensation??

In the US, the AMA is there and membership covers insurance for these kind of situations. And every flyer must be a member of the AMA and must be insured in order to fly. Flying clubs there are pretty strict that members must be insured in order to fly. A plane that is flown must have a chit with the owners address written on it and stuck on the inside of the plane so that it can be tracked in case its lost when flying.

Even there (US) one complaint is enough (lost plane crashing into vehicles/people, noise) and clubs shutdown or move their flying to elsewhere. Even in the US its pretty strict. But there are good safeguards and flyers must follow them. If such safeguards were there then this ban is not needed.

Don't shooting clubs exist in almost every state here? You can't buy a firearm and shoot anywhere you like. There are safeguards and tools for that sport.

We model flyers are at fault, that in all these years we never grouped together and created a national level representation to this useful (educational and scientific hobby). The result is poor knowledge among many people who think these are a nuisance and dangerous and these senseless bans.

That is exactly what I am saying.  Bring in laws that help secure, guide and protect this hobby, instead of blanket bans that defy logic.

What I meant was this thread by its very title "Radio Operated Planes to be Destroyed"   is defeating the purpose of your discussion on rules and regulation.
What you need to do is discuss rules and regulations on different thread .

This thread contains lot of half baked information which can create problems  so my suggestion to leave it and I think a thread on what are the things to be done would make more sense.

I am not against freedom far from it , but I feel being CR enthusiast we should not shoot ourselves in the foot .
Sai

Hmm...  What are we running away from ?   Isn't this an honest discussion, and is fast becoming public record ?

Yes, UAVs have very little do with hobby flying.  Models that can carry 10kg of payload are practically unavailable.  If anyone wanted to create trouble, they can and will always smuggle stuff, even in the face of strictest security/ban.  Mobile phones are routinely used as triggers in subversive activities, yet our country is making money selling pieces of the spectrum.  Shall we request everyone to keep our eyes open a little bit ?

In short, we as RC lovers are making it clear right here that it is a safe hobby (when practiced under a few simple rules),  and a very enjoyable one.  Whoever is reading this, let them take it for what it is.

Hey !
Check this out  :

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIM/2009/08/05&PageLabel=9&EntityId=Ar00900&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T

Hey Guys ,
Can we  star an on line petition either on this forum or some on line petition site ?

sai

Online petition sites are better.  If the Wings India folks start one, that would be ideal as they are currently the torch-bearers. We can all pitch in.

In my opinion it may work either way, both for or against us. One thing we all should clearly understand is that all of us are on the wrong side of law as far as all our Radio equipments are concerned.
Hence the petitions should focus on two aspects
1. Establish that this is a safe hobby persuaded by mature and responsible citizens
2. Ammendements of ruels to enable us to use equipment manufactured by reputed brands without going through type approval process or better still reserve a band for models exclusively as is done in most of the countries

Please note that even in other countries the law is similar, like in the US it is illegal to use 29Mhz, 35Mhz, 40Mhz. If i am not wrong 27Mhz is allocated to land vehicles & 72Mhz for Air. Similarly other countries like Germany, France, Uk, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, etc have a list of frequencies which are delicenced.

All these countries require that the radios are approved by their respective govts. Like FCC approves the radio in US, the same applies for Europe, Uk etc.

So if we approach the govt. on grounds that reputed radios are approved in certain countries so they should be allowed without been type approved i don't think they will give in.

Best is we do not discuss this to much as we never know who is reading all our post.

Can't agree with you more Katty I have said it  earlier more than once I said let this thread die out of site or lock it , its just not safe having all this stuff floating around  and having a bigger problem than we already have

sai

This was it  guys try and understand  WINGS India is an organization trying to do something good lets not make matters difficult for them with our limited knowledge .
Please try to understand what Katty and me are saying is  for the good of all of us .
We cannot do anything about it ourselves hence scaring others and pointing out rules which can be used against us does not serve any purpose except discussing here without any result .Showing some one knows more than others on the forum and risking exposure to problems serves no purpose.

Anwar once again a request please reduce the visibility of this thread , I know it is not freedom of speech but  some thime somethings have to be done to protect the hobby in general.
sai

Yes, it is too small, but Qatar and many other countries allow all/multiple reputed bands to be used.  Even otherwise, it makes sense to request that one of the three (72, 35, 40) be approved. Since 72 seems to be the most widely used; it makes sense to approve at least 72.

Currently, it seems there is no choice for FM (PPM/PCM) air radio bands; for which equipment is readily/widely available.