RC India
Welcome Guest, please login or register.
 
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Topic Tools Topic Tools 
Read
« on: January 11, 2021, 08:39:01 PM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014




Hi!

Recently started flying a SkySurfer and am throughly enjoying the same. However I realise that despite the rudder working well - the plane does not respond and I need to use the ailerons to turn the plane.

Can anything be done to improve on the performance of my plane?


Looking forward to your comments on this

ATK


« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 10:41:00 AM by Adel » Logged
 

Read
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2021, 10:19:49 PM »
K K Iyer
Global Moderator
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 56 
K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.
Offline Offline

City: Indore
State: Madhya Pradesh
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 4728
Join Date: Jan, 2012



I realise that despite the rudder working well - the plane does not respond and I need to use the ailerons to turn the plane.

I checked with another member of this group who told me that due to the SkySurfer's big size as compared to the small rudder - this is happening and that this is intact a design fault. He also said that he had installed the original Emax Servos and even then the performance of the rudder was unsatisfactory.

Can anything be done to improve on the performance of my plane?


Please do not bad mouth a good design.
Design fault, eh? Whoever told you this, how many successful models has he designed?
I’m not posting the full answer here, as it may offend you.

If really interested, PM me.
I’ll answer privately or publicly, as you wish.
Regards
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2021, 10:33:55 PM »
K K Iyer
Global Moderator
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 56 
K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.
Offline Offline

City: Indore
State: Madhya Pradesh
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 4728
Join Date: Jan, 2012



@adel,
To avoid being sued by the owner of RCBazaar, I suggest you remove the word ‘unsatisfactory’ from the title bar.
Regards
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2021, 05:10:20 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



Tried increasing the throws?
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2021, 10:37:58 AM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Good to hear from you!

I am using TowerPro MG 90 servos. I have also increased the throw of my rudder servo to the maximum on my transmitter. Besides this I have also made the foam hinge flexible. Can upload a video of this if that helps.
Tried increasing the throws?
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2021, 10:42:51 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



Try checking the rates and expo on your Tx. Reduce Expo on Rudder to 0
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2021, 10:45:35 AM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Thanks for your advise. Done as you suggested.

I am keen to know how the response of the rudder could be increased?  

Looking forward to your hear from you!
@adel,
To avoid being sued by the owner of RCBazaar, I suggest you remove the word ‘unsatisfactory’ from the title bar.
Regards

Logged
 

Read
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2021, 10:48:32 AM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Try checking the rates and expo on your Tx. Reduce Expo on Rudder to 0

The expo is 0 on my transmitter for the rudder and the dual rate is 100.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021, 10:50:47 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



Then I can't help unless I actually see the model. I've flown a Sky Surfer - the rudder response was fine. Not a design issue - something else is wrong
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 11:05:04 AM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Would a video of the the servo and the the rudder moving help in identifying the problem?
Then I can't help unless I actually see the model. I've flown a Sky Surfer - the rudder response was fine. Not a design issue - something else is wrong
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2021, 03:40:17 PM »
Rooster
Boat Lover
Forum Veteran
****

Reputation Power: 6 
Rooster has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Mumbai
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 478
Join Date: May, 2009

Boat Lover



I have a skysurfer for a long time now... i don't see any problem with the Rudder it responds perfectly.
Guess it can be a servo throw issue.
 
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2021, 04:08:34 PM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Which servo do you use?
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2021, 04:16:51 PM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



Post the video. You might be using the wrong holes in the servo arm and getting less throw. Or your pushrod may be flexing under load
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2021, 08:36:34 PM »
K K Iyer
Global Moderator
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 56 
K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.
Offline Offline

City: Indore
State: Madhya Pradesh
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 4728
Join Date: Jan, 2012



@adel

After all the servo, linkage, throw etc, let’s look at the basics.

I wondered if you were flying without ailerons, depending on rudder alone. But a look atyour first post clarified that you have ailerons.

Rudder alone can only initiate a YAW, not a turn.

A TURN requires the wings to be banked. Then the lift vector has a horizontal component that causes the change of direction of the flight path. The easiest way to bank is by using ailerons.

If ailerons are not there, dihedral is needed. The rudder yaws the model, so the outer wing gets an upward lift, leading to roll, and then to the turn.

Usually an aileron equipped model will have less dihedral than required for initiating a strong turn with rudder alone.

In such models, the rudder is usually used for steering during takeoff, And in crosswind landing.
Turns are done with ailerons (with a touch of up elevator or throttle)

My 64” Sunbird doesn’t have ailerons, though designed to have them.
It turns just fine with rudder, because I increased the dihedral

So my suggestion is to use the ailerons to turn, and forget the rudder except for crosswind landing.

There are of course more issues involved, like coordinated turns, adverse yaw etc, which can be gone into if required...

Hope this is of some help.

Regards
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2021, 08:53:27 PM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Many thanks for your detailed reply.

I have read it carefully and do understand the point that you are making. Have been using ailerons to turn. Whenever I attempted to use only the rudder I did not manage to turn the airplane. Now I understand why this was not happening. However I still feel that the throw could be an issue. But I do not know how to increase the same. Would be uploading a video of the same asap.


Logged
 

Read
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2021, 09:17:55 PM »
K K Iyer
Global Moderator
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 56 
K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.K K Iyer is on the verge of being accepted.
Offline Offline

City: Indore
State: Madhya Pradesh
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 4728
Join Date: Jan, 2012



@adel,

I don’t understand why the preference for rudder when you have ailerons.

An easy way to increase the rudder power is to increase it’s area by adding some plastic sheet or depron.
But this will only increase the yaw, an inefficient way to turn.

A powerful rudder may be needed only for knife edge flight, or super quick snap rolls, neither of which is part of the Skysurfer’s intended flight envelope.

But then, to each his own...
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2021, 09:29:47 PM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Thanks for your reply.

I wonder why I am unable to post a video in this thread. When I click on add file it does not respond.

Logged
 

Read
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2021, 09:39:28 PM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



As I could not post the videos here have sent them to you on email.

Would be grateful if you could have a look and see

thanks

Adel
Post the video. You might be using the wrong holes in the servo arm and getting less throw. Or your pushrod may be flexing under load
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2021, 05:16:33 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



Hope you don't mind; I took the liberty of uploading to YouTube and posting here for a wider reach



Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2021, 10:01:31 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



My comments:
1. Rudder movement is more on one side (right). Correct this
2. The throws are too low
3. Move the Z bend on the Rudder end more inboard - i.e. closer to the rudder. This will increase the throw

The throw should be more than 30 mm in each direction

To post a video on RCI, you have to convert to  YouTube

I can't make out clearly, but the rudder pushrod seems to be bending
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2021, 10:03:20 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



Firstly correct the pushrod bending. Use a stiffer rod

After that if the rudder movement is unequal, check the servo
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2021, 11:18:49 AM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



Which mm pushrod should I use?
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2021, 11:40:04 AM »
sanjayrai55
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 81 
sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.sanjayrai55 is a force to reckon with.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 7925
Join Date: Dec, 2011

Don't wake a Tiger until you've factored the teeth



More than 2 mm won't fit in the linkage stopper. What's important is the stiffness

Use spring steel if you can
Logged

Sanjay - Gravity is my enemy
 

Read
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2021, 02:06:16 PM »
Adel
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 2 
Adel has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Najibabad
State: Uttar Pradesh
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 97
Join Date: Nov, 2014



More than 2 mm won't fit in the linkage stopper. What's important is the stiffness

Use spring steel if you can


Yes, Also it needs to pass through the silicon tube that came with the airplane.

Any ideas from where one could get spring steel that would work?
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2021, 04:03:10 PM »
asperised
Plane Lover
Active Member

**

Reputation Power: 1 
asperised has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Chennai/Manipal
State: Tamil Nadu
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 55
Join Date: Apr, 2020



I maybe a bit inexperienced when it comes to sky surfers but I think another reason why the pushrod is bending so much is because of the linkage stopper. Consider using a z bend if possible.

Regards
Logged
 

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
RC Performance
Cars
karthikr_2922 1 3010 Last post August 07, 2010, 11:42:56 AM
by karthikr_2922
iNCREASE IN PERFORMANCE OF ELECTRIC RC CARS
Cars
traxxrc1 13 8121 Last post September 25, 2010, 06:00:46 PM
by traxxrc1
improving performance of a cheap rc car in low budget « 1 2 3 4  All »
Cars
sharmasumit668 87 40549 Last post September 06, 2011, 11:28:17 PM
by roopeshkrishna
ESC Timing and motor performance
Electric Power
Rooster 6 4826 Last post November 23, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
by neil
Question about battery performance and BEC
Electric Power
Comet 2 5773 Last post May 14, 2017, 12:05:14 PM
by rajjames