RC India

This thread will form part of ASK 21 Build & Fly log and discussion on slope soaring. Will request Ace slope soarers to share tips tricks and ideas and locations.

It is raining like crazy here non-stop for over 72 hrs now, so decided to complete ASK 21 (http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/931-ask21-klw-electric-including-motor-prop.aspx), From RC bazaar  same thing without the motor for much higher price is available at HK (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18041), this one is for long range FPV, i heard she consumes very little batt power for a long range cruise. She is huge stands 2.6 mtrs tall

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k629/augustinev/RC%20Aeroplanes/Ask21.jpg)

Hi Gusty,
I test flew the DG 808 from RCbazaar last week.construction across the FlyFly range is the same , Sushil has one too
All in all an average glider - I guess its built to a price
Here's the stuff i didn't like about it :
1) Top hinged flap won't give you enough throw , will need crow mixing. I've got a Futaba 3150 on elev, JR 9411 Rudder, and MKS digi wing servos for Flap and Ail
2) Don't use the Hitec HS81s you need metal geared servos
3) Huge wing flex under load (although it stayed together in extreme 20K winds)
4) The metal pushrods for rudder are crap and put too much undue load on the servo - use a closed loop pull pull cable instead.
I had posted some FB pics link in the RC general "what you did this week .... link

Nandan, I have the DG 1000, which, at 2.8 mts, is smaller than the 808 . The rudder servo is mounted directly  in the fin with a very short link, that would be adequate, I think.

Maiden next Sunday?

Thanks Nandan

For the head's up.
Following mistakes made and corrected (Wish you had told me earlier) :banghead:

(a) Like you i too changed over on the rudder to pull pull

(b) Was setting the recommended throw on the aileron, stripped two servo gear realized the bottom slot is not cut for recommended throw. Compensating with more upper throw than lower and aileron rudder mix to cater to Adverse Aileron drag, after flight tests will fine tune these settings

(c) Using part mixing of aileron to flap for roll control. Crow for landing and flaps for take off

(d) It has  prominent reflex camber, not good for speed, therefore, camber change for speed. this will require fine tuning, as i suspect i would require camber setting for soaring as well, telemetry analysis of Power vs Speed vs Draw would give me a perfect camber i guess. therefore bought telemetry frsky module with couple of sensors and sensor hub, that will mate into this subsequently

(e) Changing over to metal gear

Lesson learnt, True slope soaring and gliding is not everyone's cuppa tea

What do you do for take off, toss it off the cliff, prop clearance aint enough for a rolling take off

Hi Sushil,
Lets plan Pavana Sat /Sun , Ive got a 2m all carbon moldie ready too.
So no matter what the wind we can still fly.
Lets catch up

Power vs Speed vs Draw - sounds something like VMG in concept  ;D

distantly ! yeah, maximizing the three is what we call TAS/Drag, we need to maximize that, for a electrical setup. mathematically possible to hit upon the right camber over a lot of flights with telemetry and esc data. atleast in theory  ;D

Gusty
If you have a cliff close by with a nice updraft just toss it you don't even  need the motor
General thumb rule you need at least 10-12knots wind blowing up the slope to sustain flight.
Stay on the windward side and fly the ridge of the slope (crosswind) , don't go too far on the lee ward side - thats where the turbulence and the sink is .
Leeward side = Walk of shame

The only thing you do with these cheap (cost effective) Chinese clones is throw their supplied Accessories or else  you may lose the plane in few flights. The other thing I bet with these clones are that the manufacture never get them test flown by some serious flyers as few flaws they have in the final product fabrication (Control surface, fitting, linkage horrors) are almost deal breakers. Never for a first timers as they require considerable about of Modification, something only an intermediate flyer with some decent Scratch/Plan build experience would have.

FPV plane ?? Serious ??

yeah !! what the heck. Johnny in a few days you will see, some serious FPV Close Formation videos, Sandy flying the lead and me formating on him, real close, may be some aeros. who knows

i have done that, just couldn't penetrate the headwind. had to land her blind, no damage to the plane, nevertheless , a walk of shame (Thankfully i had three helps, they searched and got it back)

Blinded landing = Flying in 'God Mode' (Quake III Fans would know what I mean!!!)

Gusty,
Penetration can be resolved by ballasting.
Usually ballast on the CG.
Ballast can be quite a lot even upto a kg for a 3m span-depends on the conditions.
Strangely conditions where a sane power pilot gives up even thinking of flying the slopers thrive in those conditions.
I wait to see the water on the lake begin to cap and I know its touching 12knots.
When the water is mostly white caps its howling 20++
Fix a 1' ~1.5" cardboard tube inside the fuse with removable lead weight so you can ballast for the conditions

thank you, Nandan, keep it coming, we discussed this, ...So let it be written, so let it be done

Ok
 Here's a pictorial of "How Not to Launch a 4M glider" :giggle:
By the way the glider survived and flew after eating dirt .

last pic was moments before, it pulled out ? :giggle: and took off

No No it actually contacted Terra Firma and ate dirt  :giggle: with a thud !



Edit
Fixed your Giggle :giggle:

I dont have hills to do slope , so went in with a motor on the condor magic 3 m , but have been having a tough time with the motor mount ripping off with my Hacker A 30 / 12 XL , that is when I realized that the wall thickness and the build around the motor mount was toooooooooooooooooo  weak . Stuck a Slow Stick fuse with a 38 mm GWS motor mount right upto the wooden tray  seemed to work last time .
But once in the air she is not too bad , but I would not risk FPV equipment at a range of 4 kms on this build quality . I prefer  a pusher like FPV raptor or our own purpose built J hawk ( attached )  .

Mr Sai
Saw this bird on your website, beauty, what is the price point for the whole thing, incl your video eqpt, if you could post a breakdown, will help the community, also a comparision may be so that we go more indi-genius

Nandan

Could you post how you setup your Tx in terms of mixes etc any other pearls of wisdom

Gusty ,
This one is not really a commercial model , I got a few  Fuse components molded in Thermoplastic in material used in automobiles to ensure the least possible damage to the electronics in the event of a crash . Then the rest of the structure is hand crafted out of HD 30 kg/cu.m.  foam  which is encased by the fuse thus forming compartments for the FPV gear , batteries etc . The wings are again hot wire cut by hand and finally she comes together hand built . So in many ways each piece is assembled by hand. So this bird is not really a commercially available  like the Chinese models  and could never compete with them on pricing .

As far as the video is concerned as well we have moved away from the  very very commercial grade products .

Further with the limited number of pieces molded and  the labour intensive process of build this bird with or without the FPV set up cannot be cheap.
So though I would love to standardize and convert this to a product at a later date as of today this bird has to be restricted only to custom built requirements including the equipment on board.

Sai

Gusty
I'm a little challenged  when it comes to programming radios and it's always a techno struggle while setting up a new model
So most of my planes even the jets don't have too much programming/ mixing except for dual rates ,expo and maybe crow
I'm still trying to figure out my new Spektrum 18X  ??? and the Spektrum 18X Has by far the most intuitive programming capabilities.
On the gliders mostly I use no more than flap and some crow
On hi speed  turbine powered hotliners like the Opus that have only ailerons I use crow for landing
The bigger ones like the 5M DG303Elan flaps are Only for lift , for landing spoilers are very effective and with a little practice can land in a very restricted space

something like these ? these are pop up airbrakes, so called, however they are really lift dumpers, drag is created by extra angle of attack to sustain flight

(http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/airbrake.jpg)

Yep that's it !!
Just pop the boards when you want to land !
They are super effective ,on the 5m glider I just come in clean over the runway line up and pop the boards at about 10ft height and fly her into the ground  i.e not much flare

can be the motor fitted like in below video or it's the different model?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNDtWesQew

also, i think it has air brakes fitted, starts from 4:25

Anand
That is a retractible power pod.
the entire pylon retracts into the fuse after the job is done getting the glider to the desired altitude.
Reduces drag considerably.
I don't think its an option with the Fly Fly Models from RCBazaar.
Many European companies have these options with their larger gliders (4M and above)