RC India

Have posted regarding this Flyingwing (my current fetish) some time back. Its finally here!! Not cheap, but so would be experience. I Would be waiting for unbiased/un sponsored review before putting the big bucks!!

Should be a treat for AP/FPV enthusiasts.


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20276__Darkwing_FPV_Drone_1727mm_Composite_ARF_.html

looks cool

That's one sinister looking wings.  :)

Waiting for your review on this one  :thumbsup:

Black beauty..looks stunning......

take a look at this one..looks good..
http://www.bevrc.com/the-king-of-flyingwing-x8-white-epo-one-unit-only-per-customer-p-287.html

@ashJR7202 Wow!! what curves (:|~

BTW the hobbyking wing seems to be heavy (Dry Weight: 1400g)

ha yaar....really nice curves...and i think even bigger!!!!!

parcel size limitation for shipping... Only shipped through EMS :'(

Has its own hassles.  :P

It would be unwise to compare EPO X8 and Composite DarkWing. Considering $199 for X8,even at $150, Darkwing is a steal....

The bad part about the DarkWing is that the combination of wings made of traditional sheeted balsa and no undercarriage means you need not just grass, but "clean" grass for landings. 

PS: "Clean" grass, meaning without sticks and thorns and anything like that.

An entire FRC buildup plane, including the Wing would require Grade 'S' Cloth and additional reinforcement of Carbon Fiber at load/stress bearing portion to keep the weight low. This would escalate the prices manifold (4x-5x).  Barring high end HLG/DLG/Jets, most of composite planes do have Balsa Buildup wing and Fiber Fuse/empennage. Most Chinese model makers use to cheaper grade of GF Cloths used in non airborne application, like storage tanks, canopy etc which are much heavier.

I have discusses the issues with Belly landing in the Hobbykings page itself (and came under attack). HK should have further reinforced the belly with logerons to distribute the impact on landing to the entire structure absorb. 
Looking as juicy and exotic, this plane do comes with a caveat. Thats why I would like the USD shoppers to test the waters and put the first hand report.

Foam wings, or foam wings covered with plastic or something (like that trainer plane from Thunder Tiger) may have been a better design choice :headscratch:

Foam wings core are good for smaller planes, or planes for which Wing loading is too low (AXN/Easy star). The inherent problem of foam wings is the structural strength (which is usually confused with Crash-resistance).
The CF Rods as wing joiners in a Foam wing cannot meet the structural strength of a Wooden Spar-Wing Ribs combo which are best structural design.
With a Fiber Fuse, which would account for 70% of the dry weight, a Foam wing is a no-no, that's why Balsa build up wing makes more sense. Not crash proof , but it would definitely give adequate support for all the maneuvers.

If you are looking for a Foam wing, rest of the structure like the fuse should also be Foam, or least balsa. BevRC's X8 is exactly that.

For an FPV plane, maneuvers should not be a big concern.  There are already models that use FG fuse and foam core wings, a quick search led me to this :

http://www.yellowaircraft.com/jets/stingray.htm  (most of their models are FG fuse with foam core wing design).

They seem to use sheeted balsa as the extra layer of protection for wings.

So it can be done, and there seems to be no significant design issue that cannot be tackled easily.

BTW, using something like Solartex would also be much better than plain covering on the Darkwing (in terms of landing damages).

Hey Ujjwaana....
thats great info yaar!!! thanks.....actually i am planning to build 50" Alula wing, my 1st such large plane. original is with no motor, soarer...but i am planning to make it powered one..... planning to keet structure as simple as possible.....KF2 with main wing with 5 mm biofoam cf reinforced, for KF2 may use 5 mm or 10 mm biofaom. planing to make it in 3 pieces for ease of transportation..... any suggestions i should keep in mind before i start!!!!

I am not aware of any good foamies  "sold" by HK other then AXN Floater.

I know about  a HK plane going down on maiden, had very deceiving looks, which was sent to a HK fan for free(with $90 Shipping!!!!!!!!! for a cheaper Foamy ARF)

I doubt quality of most of the Planes sold by HK.

An Indonesian flyer on our field has this one :

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15302__YAK54_EPP_3D_Profile_KIT_35_4in_.html

Absolutely value for money, and pretty durable.  He had to reinforce the motor mount a bit with some balsa sticks and hotglue after one of the crashes, but the plane flies great and is pretty rigid.  Will post pics next week.

The Techone models rebranded by HK are sort of flimsy, as compared to these full foam fuse ones.

I would discourage you to push Bio Foam till 50". for most practical aspects Bio foam planes should be restricted to 36-40", specially for flying wing, unless you are doing such proof of concept. Reinforcements does not scale up for bigger bird.
I made a 32" WS of my smaller KESL (KFM4 too). Much well behaved, but the strength is almost at the bleeding edge.
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/56-kesl-flywing-build-thread/
No build log on forum, but I can send you the pics for the improvements I made in the motor mount.

VFM ? at $65 + Customs/shipping blues ? I bought a beautiful **Balsa** EP Profile Katana from RCdhamaka for Rs 2600+. Excellent build quality, and looks much real... Sadly RCD does not put the pic on their Site.. I can post the pics for forum members so that they may pre-order.

RCD link:
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_46&products_id=882

alternative Pic of the plane (though the pic does not do justice)
http://onestoprcworld.blogspot.in/2010/06/katana-ep-extreme-3d-flight-4-channel.html

I think its time we start give credit to LHS for bringing the prices to be much reasonable over these 1-2 years... Volume, forum like these and the will of the sellers all deserve the credit.

Yes Ujjwaana, you are correct, I was thinking of starting a "Heads Up, I saw a bargain here" thread on this forum

Wow ! What an apples to oranges comparison just because "I hate anything Hobbyking" :(

Akshay commented that only AXN is good, and I have seen someone practically learn flying on this profile YAK model.  I have seen it take multiple crashes, including an inadvertent drop from his hands from head height, on to solid ground/road (no loose sand), that too tail first.  Absolutely nothing happened to it.  Try the same with a balsa model.

If you want to compare this plane, at least compare it to something like the Hacker Zoom Zoom or one of the www.Telink.eu full profile fuse models, or something along those lines, and see how expensive they are. I have had both of these models, and I know how much I paid for them as compared to this one from HobbyKing :banghead: I am sure there are other chinese knock offs like this one for similar price as HK. I only expressed what I see every week on our field, so that someone can take advantage of the value this model offers.  If you absolutely have to discredit HobbyKing and help LHSes (the latter part which I wholly support), please at least do an apples to apples comparison, and then guide LHSes into bringing such models in an more affordable manner into India.

The model from RCDhamaka is great value for money, but that is a completely different class of airplanes. I hope the full EPO/EPP foam fuse planes are in stock locally at the earliest. Just like talking about AXN caused Shikra to happen !

I thought I was comparing with this

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15420

not profile foamies,

Today is V-Day and love is in the air, isn't IA Dada.

More Wow :)

Please re-read your own post, Reply #15. It said "nothing other than AXN is good", and I posted a model from my routine experience, which happened to be a profile foamy. In short, any HK model is fair game at this point !

Glad to prolong this discussion, we all are making more customers for HobbyKing :giggle:  And also giving a few pointers to LHSes on the way !

And for the record... a large number of HK planes are just crap. But we should be bold enough to state which are better and stand by our beliefs :)

I think reference of crash at our field is neglected, isn't it.

Please read by above post... in case plain English does not register the fact that no one here said every plane from HK is solid gold !

I do love the fact that I sort of started the AXN mania : http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/axn-floater-clouds-fly-from-hobbycity/

It seems to have become the primary trainer model in our country now.  Who knows, many people may try the Yak also... and the anti-HK brigade is not going to sleep well on this V-day  8-)

Even I didn't say Each and every Hk plane is a crap.

"Even I" :)

No one said you said so.  But equating one crash incident (which could happen due to a plethora of reasons, which you very well know, including the plane being crap), is no reason to argue against someone's value for money conclusion of another plane from the same source.

The bigger issue is that now it is becoming a matter of credibility with these far fetched examples to refute anything related to HobbyKing (or any other store for that matter).  People can see through many of these arguments, as just "I hate this store, and I will say almost anything against them, even if they are doing a pretty good job of taking peoples money and providing them with their money's worth of goods most of the time, albeit at less than stellar service". Being totally honest with you, that is how I see it.

I was only trying to point out another plane from HK that I saw was working well... the immediate reaction was a comparison to something that was distinctly different.

I am sure the audience can make an informed decision based on this thread and others on whether to deal with this store, or just leave it alone to rot !

PS: People are building Twincopters, Quads, Tricopters etc, just because they have become so much affordable. Show me Tower doing the same, before we have more of this discussion.  We just need to say it as it is... good when you see/experience good, and bad when you see/experience bad.  One should not sway the other.

Got better things to do for the next few hours...

value for money , for example
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/yak-54-3d-epp-profile-review-and-flying/msg90100/#new

Hate HK ? May be 'Not Paid by HK' ... else I would have not put this thread all together.  Please read from top again if it sounds Negative, if not 'Balanced' what I intended to.
I dont see a rationale in importing a plane from HK, as HK price + Shipping + Risk in damage doesn't worth it, if you can find similar planes at LHS.

You import models which you don't get in India (particularly Mfg like GP/PA/Phoenix/SAB). But the ones now sold by LHS already(AXN/Hawk by Sujju, MPX/ESM products by RCD) doesn't make sense to import 'similar' planes when you can get them locally. I beg emphasize that both RCB, RCD, Payless etc are selling at least the planes at prices you cannot match by ordering yourself from HK or other western shops.

Apple to Apple. I was comparing one the 'Lines' of the type of plane. Both are Profile, both are Katana (or close if mistaken)and both have similar WS. I vouched for performance, which I bet the Balsa one would give more, instead of foamie being 'Crash Resistance'. Furthermore, a compareable plane, when in Balsa is always considered costlier than 'Foam'. Thats my point of VFM. May be I was talking about Steve B's Apple and you Newton's. But both are indeed Apple

Not supporting Akshay merely because I fly with him, there is a 'SEA' of difference in the build quality and material of Foamie planes made by more renowned OEM (AXN/Bixelr/Sky Hawk) than ones manufacturing only for HK. No doubt most (and I mean 60%) of HK Foamies rot as 'Dead stock' after introduction and hardly go in replenishment. HK then give them as Freebies, charging as much as $90 on shipping. And NO! they are not as worthwhile as stock clearance sale of Levis/Benetton/Woodland.

My advisory for people would be to keep away from buying 'Just Any' Foamie from HK/Ebay/Other stores unless you get a good review. I am telling you from a recent HK foamie crash last Sunday, which showed that the material used in such foamies are not to the quality you see in AXN/Bixeler. They are more like Styrofoam/thermocol than EPO/Elapore, even when HK claim all to be EPO.

The whole point is that there seems to be no such plane in LHSes... and the argument was just to shoot down a decently performing plane, only because it is from HK.

And my only point was to point out another plane from the many many models that can confuse people about what is good at HobbyKing... because I see it routinely with my own eyes.  Gusty seems to have a similar experience.

And it is clear that the comparison is not apples to apples, no matter whatever spin you have thrown on it. A full CF frame profile plane, a balsa profile model and foam profile model are "similar" in that they are "profile" and "airplanes".  But I am sure you will agree that the "similarity" ends there.

+1 Ujjwal
i second ujjwals view in terms of cost by LHS! there are many examples
Even our LHS people know what to import ,which one to not!
i have taken a 4 models from RCD  all are well built! and costs are extremely cheap compare to importing from HK and others ! if any thing special and rare ,not available with LHS Sanjeev sir itself guides me through HK or other online shops!

We need to highlight good value offers for all LHSes, no doubt.  But when I tried to point people who buy from HobbyKing towards a model that was performing absolutely well, the response was not in terms of "that may be a good, but offers from LHS like this are also great or greater".  That is language/attitude we all can understand. Instead, the language is "no that is not good value (because it is HK?)... here, compare with this" and the example is not similar in terms intended use.

In short, it seems to be vandetta coming out, not the best interests of people who want to buy new planes. Honestly, it would be best to see such models in local stores... until that happens, we need to learn to live with goodness being pointed out, regardless of where the store is, and what store it is !

Quite simply, where did Gusty buy that model from... and amongst all the models he has gone through, how many have got such an endorsement/feedback from him ?

Glad to hear people like Sanjeev (of RCD) go beyond "my store" attitude in the interests of the RC community.  I am sure such deeds will be amply rewarded in due course.

I was not conclusive nor definitive in my postings. "I am not aware" , "I doubt" are the words used in my post, that clearly shows my opinion not conclusive fact. And I felt on a "Open Minded" forum I can at least express my thoughts.

This thread is all about moulded foamies not for profile foamies, so I was thinking it was quite obvious references on my posts.  

We all know about hassles involved in importing a plane, and when plane crashes on it's maiden due to bad build, how one can feel, I need not tell.  I think that's why Ujjwal has pointed that he want to wait for reviews before thinking of buying the plane from HK. And as a consumer Ujjwal has pointed that when you can buy a profile balsa plane from LHS why to go for a import, it's not a comparison, IMO.
OK there are some planes which HK sells are great like AXN Floater which shows in it's popularity.  but again Axn is sold by a LHS here in Bangalore now days.

Please... we all can remember posts that are in the previous page.  This thread was about a particular model, until you posted reply #15. At that point, it became a discussion about how "foamies from HK are bad except AXN".  And the case you pointed out turned out to be a balsa Cub !  So much for "moulded foamies only" discussion.


That is a unique take on reply # 18.  If that is not a "comparison", then I wonder what in the world would one be ! May be re-reading that post will help.

Oh oh oh so that's the matter,

In future care would be taken to post the things which mods of the fora likes

As Ujjwaana has pointed couple of days earlier "to discuss such things places are becoming scarce"

Oh boy :)  That was not even a response ! I am glad you finally got it.

My only guilt is that I pointed out one more model from HK which seems to be working well. But it was turned into another "nothing HK does is fair/right", because "I" had a bad experience with them. I am sure people can see through this. 

I hope more people try these thick EPO/EPP fuse profile planes, they are good for training and aerobatic/3D flights. Most importantly, I hope local stores start carrying them, as Ujjwal probably originally intended.  Balsa models are cool and everything, but after 1 (or 2) training crashes, all the "value for money" sort of evaporates into thin air.  They may be good for senior folks who do near perfect flying... for the rest of us, these foam planes are very good choices so that we can feel free to improve our training without having to sweat a lot and do balsa+monocote surgery all the time !

I hope these type of planes become even more popular than the AXN, regardless of where people buy these from !

Posted by: anwar "Balsa models are cool and everything, but after 1 (or 2) training crashes, all the "value for money" sort of evaporates into thin air.  They may be good for senior folks who do near perfect flying... for the rest of us, these foam planes are very good choices so that we can feel free to improve our training without having to sweat a lot and do balsa+monocote surgery all the time ! "

Well said Anwar +1

Nice audiance !! Isn't it !! and all the traffic!!

Divay
What you usually pay more for ? Foamie or a Balsa plane ? Just forget the fact what is better for whom ?
Any discussion soon turns into "who is saying", "instead what is he saying"...

If people dont get it, read the short story "India Again" by EM Foster

I think it is time.... or was that long overdue...

ujjwaana dada.. with all due respects .... i liked what anwar said in terms of not wasting money on balsa planes during the course of learning ... foamie's are undoubtedly a great money and time saving option for beginners

As far as the "India Again" story is concerned all I can say is that you are Preaching to the choir ....

... no matter what... anything HobbyKing does is wrong, others cannot mention any HobbyKing products that seems to work reasonably well... and finally, except 2 or 3 people, everybody else are blind followers who are getting paid to speak for them ("fan boys").

What has balsa planes costing more than foam have anything to do with this discussion, when they don't even serve the same target audience, have distinctly different performance and durability characteristics ? For the same reasons, why are these even being compared ?

if we leave out HK out of this discussion and see a product for it worth things will fall in place, HK IMHO is a retail outlet, though they claim to, but , i dont think Mr hands is into production. having said that, if we look at their products. some FGF i had of their major products include (a) Bixler (b) Floater (c) YAK Foamie (d) YAK Composite (d) 2.6 m composite Glider (e) Bluebird servos (f) High torque Turnigy Servos (g) Tgy MG 16 Gms (h) HXT 9 gms (i) Orange (except for the fact it is binding to sandy'd tx  ;D ) Corona Frsky Rx.etc These major prodcuts were real value for money (not to mention some motors and other accessories).

 Absolutely no doubt they lie about thier shipping and delay so much to ship, backorder gimmick is bull crap, after sale support and customer service is a farse. then again people go back basically for the rates they sell thier products at. It is like i once bought a Handycam at less than 1/2 the price, with no warranty, someone told me why did i do that, what if anything goes wrong, i said to him, at less than 1/2 the price i have full replacement warranty worth money with me, not tied down for one/ two years alone. HK products are such, some products are less than 1/2 the price, Take it or leave it.

The original (First) post of Johny to me appeared to be praising the product :headscratch: he just wanted someone who has money and  wants to experiment and put up their view before putting his money, that, i think is fair

How many of you guys can honestly say you have no copies in your home or car. No copied CD, DVD, Software or moviesn or music. No audio cassettes with pirate3d music. No pirated flight sims. Not one thing copied?