RC India
Welcome Guest, please login or register.
 
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Topic Tools Topic Tools 
Read
« on: September 06, 2010, 11:47:44 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.




I decided to maiden my stock easy star. The weather at Pancard Clubs, Baner, Pune was clear but windy. I was hoping to find some experienced flyers but there was no one there, so I decided to give it a go. Obviously the results were not so good. Despite of several attempts I was not able to get the plane flying. Here is the video:

I tried to correct the CG after every attempt.

The damage:
Tail boom cracked.
Motor mount separated from fuse.
Nose cracked at two places and bent.

What do you think about it guys? Is this solely because of bad piloting or there are other contributing factors?
While returning home I found remains of someone else’s easy star scattered on the field, a broken prop and some foam. Is this place a Bermuda triangle for easy stars  Huh?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 12:21:58 PM by anwar » Logged
 

Read
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 11:53:03 AM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



In all the attempts, the plane is veering right. Were your ailerons centered?

I think it would be best to enlist the help of n experienced local modeller. The plane HAS to be set up correctly,in the first place. And you WILL need support, in many ways. Trial and error methods result, mostly, in error and that is quite a trial!
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 12:03:03 PM »
majraj
Plane Lover
Senior Member

***

Reputation Power: 2 
majraj has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Hyderabad
State: Andhra Pradesh
RC Skills: Expert
Posts: 102
Join Date: May, 2010



First of all Easy Star is a proven & quite a stable model, it's being flown across the globe. After seeing the video there are no symptoms of CG being wrong. I would like to ask a question, how long are you being flying RC models? For me it looks purely piloting inexperience & error(no offence meant). During every take off in video the plane has banked to right. So it likely a trimming problem or take off in strong left cross wind. Any ways these foamies are easily repairable. So better luck next time after repairs. You may like to visit Hadapsar flying club where you will find quite few experienced people who can help you out. They fly on saturdays.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 12:18:47 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



@sushil_anand
No ailerons on this plane. However rudder and elevator were centered. I even tried counter trimming the rudder for right turn, but it still kept banking.


@majraj
I have very little experience in flying glow SPADs, but have more crashes than landing in my log. I agree it’s mostly piloting error but the wind has its share too. But again it was my decision to fly in such conditions, so may be its all piloting error. I know there are some very experienced and helpful guys at hadapsar but it’s too far for me as I don’t have a car. I stay in baner so pancard is convenient.

Can someone meet me at pancard and help me out..
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 01:03:06 PM »
vineet
Heli Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 25 
vineet barely matters.vineet barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: delhi
State: Delhi
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 1875
Join Date: Mar, 2010



oh shit man  Giggle
Logged

 

Read
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 01:17:47 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



Sometimes I wish if people never had feelings  Lips Sealed  I mean feelings strong enough to make them do sort of irrational things ! Taking the help of an experienced person was the right thing to do. 

Being an EasyStar, the repairs should be fairly easy, but it is heart breaking to see the model plough into the ground at high throttle.  Please do cut throttle once you know it is going to impact Sad

Have you checked the movement of the controls to see if they are reversed ?  It is somewhat easy to get wrong for beginners (especially ailerons).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 01:42:27 PM by anwar » Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 01:40:06 PM »
ujjwaana
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 28 
ujjwaana barely matters.ujjwaana barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 2384
Join Date: Oct, 2009




Have you checked the movement of the controls to see if they are reversed ?  It is somewhat easy to get wrong for beginners (especially ailerons).

+1 Anwar. If you are over using the Rudder (and worse in the wrong direction, as it exponentially increases the effect due to continuation). In such over use, the plane's tendency is to nose down and continue bank in one direction(the direction onset due wind/imbalance). Please check the proper throws and restrict to what Easy star flyers would have suggested on forum - usually 70% is max what I heard people use.

Some more after thoughts:

1. Though people swear by Multiplex brand, the wings might still be unbalanced - one wing heavier than the other. Hold the model with the nose and the tail and see if the plane is perfectly balanced in the Roll axis. If not, you can use a coin to balance the wing. use some tape and start from the wing root (the fuse and) and slowly move toward tip to see if the coin balances the roll axis. When found, use epoxy and tape to permanently fix the coin. If it doesn't till the wing end, use a heavier coin.

2. Check if you put the motor correctly. slight 2-3 degree angle may change the thrust angle and case such string banking.

3. the First launch suggest a very steep launch angle (and thus plane correcting with nose down, exposing more wing surface to wind).

4. Wind. both the launches were almost in the same direction. It would be really stupid to launch into a 'Cross' wind. Always launch 'Head' on into the wind, making a Zero degree angle. You can get a wide ribbon from ladies cosmetic store and tie it on a stick/pole. This would help you to see the wind direction and not relying on the 'Feel' of the direction.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 02:51:35 PM by ujjwaana » Logged

Futaba 8FG Super | HK-450v2 | FA-22 Raptor |AXN Floater-Jet | FunJet | Black Horse Edge 540 | Amp Master 015 | 2.3M Big Brother
 

Read
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 01:57:37 PM »
medicineman1987
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 7 
medicineman1987 has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Margao
State: Goa
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 634
Join Date: Apr, 2010



Ouch.. Thats a very nasty crash! Even I think the rudder may be reversed.. This way when he gives left rudder to compensate for tilt, it goes further right.. Also seems quite windy..
Logged

"The day you stop playing with your toys is the day you start getting ready to die.."

FlySky 9x (with ER9x,  backlight mod &  dual module hack) | Futaba SkySport 4VF (with 5th channel hack) | Glidiator - scratchbuilt 60" electric glider | SkySurfer | Scratchbuilt Tricopter | FT Nutball |  .46 Glow trainer (electric conversion in progress)
 

Read
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 02:08:08 PM »
mpsaju
Plane Lover
Senior Member

***

Reputation Power: 2 
mpsaju has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Chennai
State: Tamil Nadu
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 114
Join Date: Mar, 2009



SunLikeStar
I have been flying my Easy Star for the last several months now every weekend. I have gone thru a number of learning curves with my Easy Star. Perhaps, if you care to look in www.rcgroups.com you will find a number of first time users problems and what they have done about it.
In my opinion the following is quite possible:

a. As per the popular websites, the stock rudder is barely powerful enough to control the plane. So, you may have to increase the area of the rudder for better response. There are well written blogs with photos on how to go about this correction. But if you are a Spadder, then probably you can use your favorite coroplast to increase the rudder area with a littel bit of cyno.
b. Could be you are not launching the plane dead against the wind. We here in Kovalam, Chennai usually have a lot of wind to tangle with and have always learnt to be vary of its direction.
c. With the Easy-Star, as soon as you launch the plane, there is always a tendency for the plane to come down. This is because, the axis of the motor shaft has a slight moment arm with the CG of the plane tending to turn the plane downwards on increasing throttle. One has to fight this tendecny by a little up elevator. Once the plane starts rising up in response, just allow the joystick to centre.
d. Also, check whether you have pushed the wing halves towards each other sufficiently so that they sit equally about the axis of the plane.
e. How have you fixed the batteries in the cockpit. Is it loose and therefore shifting after launch. Perhaps you have a lot of weight only on the right side of the plane
By sure to reply after the above checks and perhaps we can still make a Easy Star lover out of you yet!!!


Saju






Logged

Happy Flying


Saju
 

Read
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 02:23:44 PM »
atul_pg
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 11 
atul_pg has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 887
Join Date: May, 2009



Hi,

Sunlikestar welcome to pancard Smiley

We have been flying there since 1 and 1/2 year now and its a perfect place for easy star, I would say you were lucky your easy star didn't go over the mountain on the left side. Am afraid whatever happened was
because of bad piloting.   

Get your easy star this weekend and someone might be able to help you out with it..

cheers

atul g
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 02:46:39 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



@anwar
I wont label that irrational as although I am a beginner but I can still fly a plane, may be not always land in one piece Smiley.. but still.. and am I missing something, why does every one wants me to check the ailerons on an eaststar. In fact this is my first plane without ailerons.

Double checked triple checked after the first crash, controls are not reversed.

@ujjwaana
I took lots of time checking the wind direction before each launch and made sure the launch was in the wind. But I’ll definitely check the roll axis and motor axis.

@mpsaju
Thanks for the suggestions man. The battery is fixed strong in the cockpit; I don’t think it is the causing the problem. Will go and check rcgroups right now.

@atul_pg
Thanks, it’s a good spot, but very windy. I’ll be there this weekend also, may be i'll bring my SPAD as well. When do you fly? Saturday or Sunday, cause I was there on Sunday from like 11 to 12.30 but no one showed up.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 02:56:08 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



@anwar
I wont label that irrational as although I am a beginner but I can still fly a plane, may be not always land in one piece Smiley

I was only talking about beginners who "cannot wait for next weekend" out of sheer excitement, which I have seen many times not only on the forum, but also in real life.  In an extreme example, someone ended up with 10 stitches to his hands Sad  Your comment about waiting for "experienced" fliers misled me to some extend.

If you have basic orientations, and know the basics of control surface movement verification, please do ignore my comment, we have to look at other factors.  It must be unique to this model/setup, as opposed to more of a "checklist" error ! 

Whatever the solution/fix is, please do post it here !
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 04:32:38 PM »
dileepbalan
Plane Lover
Senior Member

***

Reputation Power: 3 
dileepbalan has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Coimbatore / Vaikom, Kottayam, Kerala
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 178
Join Date: May, 2010



I hope practicing on simulator may help to learn / improve the basic skills (I learned the take off, but crash landing always! Giggle). I heard from Ram G that, he was practicing on simulator for 3 months and his first maiden flight with AXN floter was  success.

http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/axn-floater-clouds-fly-from-hobbycity/

Regards
Dileep
Logged

Spektrum DX6i | AXN Floater-Jet
 

Read
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 08:02:59 PM »
sandeepm
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 14 
sandeepm has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Mumbai
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1008
Join Date: Mar, 2009



On close look at the hand launch at exactly 24 Sec. and freezing the frame, i notice that the tail wing is not exactly at right angled to the fuse....this may be the viewing angle error also...but still need to be checked....rest in my opinion this is not CG error, only some loose joint in the body....

Sandeep
Logged

Fly high if you have good set of batteries.....!
 

Read
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 01:25:58 AM »
jonboy20
Plane Lover
Active Member
**

Reputation Power: 1 
jonboy20 has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Mumbai
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 30
Join Date: Aug, 2010



  I Guess no beginner should fly alone.....I myself thought ...Ohhh! my first flight is going to be a piece of cake.....But look at the amount of crashes I have had!!!!!! Terrible!!!!Lucky not much damage done to my model or me!!!
 The controls of a RC model I learned are very sensitive......And wind also does its huffing and puffing on the model taking it for a toss....We like to blame the wind,Always if we crash!!!!
 We all would sure love to see that same Easy Star which crashed......having an affinity to curl to the right.......to fly straight!!!!! Please do post the video and let us know why she kept right turning!!!
  This is my first learning flight with a home built foam model build by my friend ....A geared speed 400 up front powered by an 8cell 1100mAh NiMh cell pack with 2 micro servos for Elevator and Rudder......Look at the amount of nose dives in the grass ,No damage done though and then a Happy flight for me...which kept me at the edge of my controls...I tried my best!!!Thanks to my friend for building this foam model for me!!

I hope its Ok to post here!
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 10:04:22 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



@sandeepm
You are right, its a problem with the tail. After close inspection i have found that the horizontal stab is fine but the rudder definitely has an angle.

The plane is all repaired now. Will try to correct the tail today.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2010, 10:09:44 AM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



If that's the only issue, your applying of controls in the opposite direction should have kept the plane in the air, right ?
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 10:24:59 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Yes, thats what i was doing. After the first crash, i knew something was wrong and before the second launch i acted out what i'll do, like first i'll give some elevator then some left rudder. But still the plane kept banking right. Then i tried to counter trim the rudder.
Normally i would have corrected a banking plane like this by trimming the ailerons, but this was totally alien to me.   
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2010, 12:56:51 PM »
dileepbalan
Plane Lover
Senior Member

***

Reputation Power: 3 
dileepbalan has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Coimbatore / Vaikom, Kottayam, Kerala
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 178
Join Date: May, 2010



@ Ujjwaana
"+1 Anwar. If you are over using the Rudder (and worse in the wrong direction, as it exponentially increases the effect due to continuation). In such over use, the plane's tendency is to nose down and continue bank in one direction(the direction onset due wind/imbalance)."

I have experimented the same in simulator. you are right  Thumbs Up

Regards,
Dileep
Logged

Spektrum DX6i | AXN Floater-Jet
 

Read
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2010, 01:17:32 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



SunLikeStar
I have been flying my Easy Star for the last several months now every weekend. I have gone thru a number of learning curves with my Easy Star. Perhaps, if you care to look in www.rcgroups.com you will find a number of first time users problems and what they have done about it.

I have found people who have faced the same problem at rcgroups, a great guy has suggested this,
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5896308&postcount=1
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 01:45:04 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



If basically set up correctly, any experienced pilot would have been able to handle the "out of trim" condition, and correct it while flying. Really not necessary to "test glide" for this, and not at all feasible for heavier aircraft!

Hence my strong recommendation to ALL beginners to take the help/support of others for the initial flights. Less heartburn this way!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 01:47:04 PM by sushil_anand » Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 01:56:22 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



Trim is basically what any pilot (who is not an absolute beginner) would keep the sticks at to keep the plane flying level.   And if the aircraft is built carefully and the CG has been given due care, it will not be much.  If what we are seeing in the video is just trim issues, that would be really surprising. 
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 02:36:19 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



If basically set up correctly, any experienced pilot would have been able to handle the "out of trim" condition, and correct it while flying. Really not necessary to "test glide" for this, and not at all feasible for heavier aircraft!

Hence my strong recommendation to ALL beginners to take the help/support of others for the initial flights. Less heartburn this way!
but this is not a heavy plane, i strongly believe the test glide thing would have got me through. And there is not much heart burn any way with an easy star. After all that thrashing and bashing, it took me just 15 mins to get the plane all fixed up.

There is a great thread on easystar at rcgroups that all easystar fans should visit.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167272
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 04:26:13 PM »
sandeepm
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 14 
sandeepm has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Mumbai
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1008
Join Date: Mar, 2009



If that's the only issue, your applying of controls in the opposite direction should have kept the plane in the air, right ?
Anwar, in Easy star and other ARF's there are guides to make the rudder or elevator at a fixed position and not here & there. here. i am again confused what sunlikestar said "at and angled" . if this the case then what you said "applying controls in Opp direction should have kept the plane in the air" will not work. as at an angle and means bent, will do exactly what was happening in the video. yes if it is not bent but not fixed properly then yes, what you said should have worked
Logged

Fly high if you have good set of batteries.....!
 

Read
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2010, 09:34:46 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Ok guys, so it was not all piloting error and it was not the vertical stab.
This week end I had the plane ready to fly, all fixed up, vertical stab removed and re-glued. Did some test glides in the bushes but it kept banking to the right. Any ways I decided to give it a try and crashed the same way I did last week end. Then I fixed a coin under the left wing and the plane took off without any input. However the flight was a struggle as I the plane was nose heavy and I had an exponential on the elevator. I somehow managed to avoid the huge pancard club name boards. It was so windy that even on full throttle the plane kept drifting towards other side of the hill. But I managed to crash land it on my side of the hill. The plane was later recovered from the hill and flown till the Tx battery was drained out.
Thanks ujjwaana, for the pointer.

Logged
 

Read
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2010, 11:11:41 AM »
atul_pg
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 11 
atul_pg has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 887
Join Date: May, 2009



That's a long trek up there..Your easy star was obviously stalling and if you would have given a little up elevator she would have stabilised.

We guys fly there early mornings about 8 on weekends..Meet prady he will be able to help you out and teach you like he taught me..

cheers

atul g.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2010, 11:43:35 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Hey, you should first give me some credit for dodging that pancard clubs board Smiley
Yes that was a long trek, but i am used to it as i have been going on that hill almost every weekend for last 3 years.
The stalling was due to wrong model selected on the tx which had exponential throw on the elevator, which i had set for my SPAD. That was fixed later and i was able to get a good stable flight.
But seriously dude, 8 in the morning Shocked on weekends!!  I get up at 8.30 on weekdays Roll Eyes
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2010, 12:33:21 PM »
PankajC
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 13 
PankajC has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Delhi
State: Delhi
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 1022
Join Date: Jul, 2009

Learning to Fly



hmm.... cheers for Multiplex for holding out against crashes. From a newbie point of view, I have being scratch building and each attempt has resulted in near total destruction. Now, looking at the video, I am impressed by the damage resistant quality of these planes.

Am into my third scratch foamie (a pusher), so lets hope I get third time lucky. BTW, have got hold of a local hobbyist and I think this time things might turn out better.

regards
Pankaj

PS: SunLikeStar, the guys in Delhi/Noida start around 6:30 am Cheesy
Logged

Spektrum DX6i | EP Pusher Trainer | EP CUB |
 

Read
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2010, 12:52:20 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



This is confusing. The plane looks like it is tail, rather than nose, heavy. Notice it's tendency to "porpoise". Though that could just be too much control input. But you say you have expo on the elevator.

Secondly, how come the test glide was ok if the CG was out?

Finally, what did you do to continue flying satisfactorily "tiill the TX battery was drained out"?
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2010, 02:13:28 PM »
ujjwaana
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 28 
ujjwaana barely matters.ujjwaana barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 2384
Join Date: Oct, 2009



Ok guys, so it was not all piloting error and it was not the vertical stab....
...

Then I fixed a coin under the left wing and the plane took off without any input
....
...
The plane was later recovered from the hill and flown till the Tx battery was drained out.

Came back to thread after long! Glad that you finally made the Easy* to the skies. The video was nice! Keep it up!
Logged

Futaba 8FG Super | HK-450v2 | FA-22 Raptor |AXN Floater-Jet | FunJet | Black Horse Edge 540 | Amp Master 015 | 2.3M Big Brother
 

Read
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2010, 04:53:29 PM »
vineet
Heli Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 25 
vineet barely matters.vineet barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: delhi
State: Delhi
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 1875
Join Date: Mar, 2010



wow  Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
Logged

 

Read
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2010, 09:27:35 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



Hmmm. So for planes without ailerons, even a slight lateral imbalance is such a big deal ?  There would be no way to handle the situation by pilot skill alone ? Head Scratching
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2010, 09:54:37 AM »
PankajC
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 13 
PankajC has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Delhi
State: Delhi
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 1022
Join Date: Jul, 2009

Learning to Fly



I don't think so. For a newbie, handling a aileron is lot more difficult than just rudder/elevator control. But yes, I would think if one of the wings was heavier, then then it would be an issue.

Pankaj
Logged

Spektrum DX6i | EP Pusher Trainer | EP CUB |
 

Read
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2010, 12:34:00 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



I don't think so. For a newbie, handling a aileron is lot more difficult than just rudder/elevator control. But yes, I would think if one of the wings was heavier, then then it would be an issue.

Pankaj

Anwar has posted that it is without ailerons. And it is very difficult to imagine any ARF to have one wing so much heavier than the other.

My questions still remain unanswered by SunLikeStar. They would be of great help in trying to resolve the real problem.
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2010, 06:41:11 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Anwar has posted that it is without ailerons. And it is very difficult to imagine any ARF to have one wing so much heavier than the other.

My questions still remain unanswered by SunLikeStar. They would be of great help in trying to resolve the real problem.
I am sorry Sushil, i totally missed your post.

This is confusing. The plane looks like it is tail, rather than nose, heavy. Notice it's tendency to "porpoise". Though that could just be too much control input. But you say you have expo on the elevator.
It was totally nose heavy, actually it is flying with a little up elevator trim. What you are seeing is just me panicking after the first stall.
 
Secondly, how come the test glide was ok if the CG was out?
The test glides were never ok, in each test, the plane just banked and fell, right first.

Finally, what did you do to continue flying satisfactorily "tiill the TX battery was drained out"?
Finally, i did nothing to the plane, if you see at the end of the video, you'll see that i am comfortable with the control by then. I just moved further away from the hill  Smiley

And i totally understand your concern, i also do not believe that one wing is heavier that other. But still i know that i tried to fly that plane ten times and each time it banked right. Then i fixed a one rupee coin half way under the left wing and now it flies easily every time. i'll try to get the wings weighed, but for that i'll have to carry it to the grocery store.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2010, 08:53:11 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



I don't think so. For a newbie, handling a aileron is lot more difficult than just rudder/elevator control. But yes, I would think if one of the wings was heavier, then then it would be an issue.

Absolutely the opposite in my experience !  Having ailerons instead of rudder helps the beginner control any "banking to the sides" of the plane while flying. The rudder is of limited use for the same ! 

So I always ask people to start with ailerons and elevator, and use rudder mostly to line up with the runway for landing (that too when I feel they are ready to handle one more control).
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2010, 12:20:23 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



It was totally nose heavy, actually it is flying with a little up elevator trim. What you are seeing is just me panicking after the first stall.

A nose heavy plane will not necessarily dip downwards but will be sluggish on the pitch axis. Whereas the video seems to show high sensitivity on the elevator. As you have yourself said, you have got used to this sensitivity. "Up trim" again does not indicate that it is nose heavy. Have you checked if the dihedral is the same on both wings by viewing it from the front? A one rupee coin doesn't weigh much and , "half way under the left wing" shouldn't have much effect. Head Scratching
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 01:30:25 PM by anwar » Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2010, 12:24:48 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



I have not checked the dihedral, i'll do that tonight and let you know.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2010, 02:37:20 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Here is the picture of the dihedral. Flew the plane again this weekend without any problems.

DSC02817.jpg
Re: Easy Star - Maiden, Crash, Investigation and Solution
* DSC02817.jpg (45.38 KB, 620x465 - viewed 708 times.)
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2010, 11:56:48 AM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



Here is the picture of the dihedral. Flew the plane again this weekend without any problems.

With or without the coin?
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2010, 12:04:29 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



With the coin. I wanted to have it filmed but as usual the cameraman failed to cooperate. However i have one video that might interest you. I'll upload it in a few minutes.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2010, 03:33:22 PM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Here is the video of the first flight last weekend. I had the coin moved aprox 2 inch inwards(towards the fuse). The result was the plane banked again but was controllable.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2010, 03:58:32 PM »
PankajC
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 13 
PankajC has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Delhi
State: Delhi
RC Skills: Beginner
Posts: 1022
Join Date: Jul, 2009

Learning to Fly



Absolutely the opposite in my experience !  Having ailerons instead of rudder helps the beginner control any "banking to the sides" of the plane while flying. The rudder is of limited use for the same ! 

So I always ask people to start with ailerons and elevator, and use rudder mostly to line up with the runway for landing (that too when I feel they are ready to handle one more control).

Anwar,
If you say that having an aileron to adjust or trim the bank/lift on the wings, then yes I agree, but my experience (with the crashes) is that for a newbie making the plan turn by banking is way too difficult - specially if the model is flying at appreciable speeds. I have tried and it and the result is that the plane turned very sharply which was overcompensated on the other side, so then it banked sharply the other side - net result was a wobbly flight and finally a crash

Pankaj
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 03:59:40 PM by anwar » Logged

Spektrum DX6i | EP Pusher Trainer | EP CUB |
 

Read
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2010, 04:02:06 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



My point was that having rudder only puts the planes in orientations that cannot be corrected by rudder alone even by experienced pilots... unless you have enough height to TRY to do something, OR you prevent the plane from getting into such orientations in the first place (which is again tough for beginners).

Over use of controls is usually just for the initial couple of minutes, and can be handled with dual rates and/or sim training.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 04:10:06 PM by anwar » Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2011, 01:15:12 AM »
asinghatiya
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 12 
asinghatiya has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 913
Join Date: Sep, 2010



 Bow...I want to learn how to crash an easystar from you......I did my best ...not even able to force it for a hard landing.......awesome videos. Anyways that was a joke but yeah never seen an easy star so difficult like a bull chasing the ground all the time.... Giggle. ...hope you will find a solution soon for it.... Thumbs Up
Logged

:-)
 

Read
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2011, 01:17:32 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Bring it to me i'll do it for you, BTW the thread is an year old.
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2011, 01:19:49 AM »
asinghatiya
Plane Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 12 
asinghatiya has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Gurgaon
State: Haryana
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 913
Join Date: Sep, 2010



 Bang Head....thats Y I was surprised to this thread started by you... Giggle....things have changed a lot in last one yearI guess.... Salute
Logged

:-)
 

Read
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2011, 01:22:50 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



yes, a new member post in it and it got bumped, believe it or not I still crash every week and yes have been flying for 3~4 years now. I am special Grin
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2011, 01:35:23 AM »
SunLikeStar
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 20 
SunLikeStar barely matters.SunLikeStar barely matters.
Offline Offline

City: Pune
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1902
Join Date: Aug, 2010

High spirits we have: gravity we flout.



Things have changed a lot in last one year I guess.... Salute
http://www.rcindia.org/rc-events/baner-aeromodellers-association-pune-precision-landing-competition/
Just to make me feel little better  Smiley
Logged
 

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
2nd hand Easy Star
Wanted
hbk2004 17 7552 Last post February 01, 2013, 03:08:41 PM
by avesh
Multiplex Easy Glider Pro : Conversion to Pusher Like Easy Star
Electric Planes
rcforall 6 13405 Last post February 21, 2010, 08:39:57 PM
by rcforall
easy star propeller
Electric Power
ashutoshn 10 9024 Last post April 15, 2011, 10:16:17 AM
by ujjwaana
need Multiplex Easy Star
Wanted
warriornair 4 4242 Last post March 31, 2011, 08:53:11 PM
by warriornair
Maiden flight of my 5 Star....
Chatter Zone
shobhit17 8 2764 Last post November 22, 2018, 11:14:20 PM
by newpg202