RC India

Hi All,

I have been a silent spectator in this forum for a long time  :hatsoff: to this forum & the members here.
Manged to learn quiet a bit by reading multiple threads here & watching videos on youtube.

I recently decided to move a few steps further & got myself a transmitter, receiver & a simulator to further enhance my rookie skills. Now am taking my baby steps of building a plane to fly & decided that the best trainer to start would be the maker trainer after watching all 15 video episodes multiple times.

(http://www.dronetrest.com/uploads/db5290/324/5016e0cc410c1b6a.jpg)

Read & watch all about it here -
http://makezine.com/2013/07/09/maker-hangar-episode-1-introduction/

The PDF Plans
http://cdn.makezine.com/make/makerhanger/makertrainerver3_1.pdf

I have finished cutting the foam sheets & have come midway through the fuselage build.
I realized that i need to get the electronics before i proceed.

While scouring the net for the same i have hit a roadblock as am unable to find the motor & the propeller as suggested for the plane in any online LHS (Note - rcbazaar is a stone's throw away from where i stay).

Motor - NTM Prop Drive 28-36 1800KV / 438W
Propeller - 6x5E

Request the experts here to kindly guide me on the best combination for the plane including the battery.

While scouting for parts i came across servos as low as Rs. 150 - 200 on ebay, please let me know if this is good to go ahead with.
TowerPro -
http://www.ebay.in/itm/TowerPro-SG90-9g-Mini-Servo-9-gram-Servo-for-RC-1-8-kg-cm-/272004723464?hash=item3f54beb308
http://www.ebay.in/itm/TOWER-PRO-SG90-MINI-9-GRAM-GEAR-MICRO-DIGITAL-SERVO-MOTOR-for-ARDUINO-OTR-BE0007-/321877386499?hash=item4af1632503

Looking forward to fly soon  :P with some help.

Regards,
Rookie Maverick

Have you checked flitetest.com and their beginner series plane. easy to build and fly, also easier to fix after crash.

Best of luck !

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Thanks Niteen.
I will surely give it a try, since am halfway through this build can somebody suggest the right motor, prop, battery to go with the maker hanger trainer please.

Regards,
Rick

@rookie,
I saw that the recommended motor is a 2836 1800kv with a 6x4 prop.
But 438 watts? More than half a horsepower?
Seems excessive for a first model.
If you have already built the model, can you please post the following details?
1. Wing area
2. Weight of bare airframe (excl motor, prop, esc, battery and servos)

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Thanks iyer sir for your response.
The wing span is 30 inches & breadth is 7.8 inches.
weight I guess post completion of bare airframe would not exceed 800-900 gms.

Please let me know if any other detail would help.
Thanks in advance sir.

Regards,
Rick

@rookie,
Wonder if your size is correct. 30x8"?
If this is correct, and your all up weight is 1kg, then it will be TWICE as heavy as suitable for a first trainer.

And with a 400+watt motor, it will be a BOMB. Not exactly a trainer.

The most important thing a trainer needs is the ability to fly SLOW.
THat means a wing loading of not more than 6-9oz/sqft.
And a power loading of 50-75watts per lb (100-150w/kg)

Please recheck you data.
Regards.

Hanger


(http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/maker-hanger-first-build-need-help/?action=dlattach;attach=716116;image)



Hangar


(http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/maker-hanger-first-build-need-help/?action=dlattach;attach=716118;image)

Most of the time people don't really laugh out loud when they mention lol. I guess this would be an exception. Oops.  Lolz.
JK

i agree with you Niteenk sir they are great
my brother can go with ft tiny trainer or ft flyer or something like ft nutball and ft delta
if you are trying to build maker trainer i won't suggest you because it was difficult build (at least for me) and i crash it in the first flight though its v2.0 is better ( as i think)
yeah ft tiny trainer has a bit difficult build as well ( again as i think)
at any rate my first successive plane was FT Flyer so its best for me , after all

best of luck  :thumbsup: and happy flying

Team,

Thanks for bringing in some much needed smiles / laughter on this thread Folk  :giggle:
Tried correcting the same but couldn't find any edit options on the thread title.

MOD: Please help correct the spelling from Hanger to Hangar.

Iyer Sir,
You were right on the weight aspect - i finally did weigh in all the pieces, it adds up-to 570 gms. Excluding the electronics.
The wingspan though is correct 30*8 inches.

Hope this helps in suggesting me the right setup to go ahead with this pusher trainer.  :help:
I found a google forum on all the builds from Maker Hangar & scrolling down the pages I figured out that most of the build ended up with about 1.2 to 1.4 kgs including the electronics.
https://plus.google.com/communities/111848781234483620161

Surprisingly I dint find any comments or suggestions on alternate power pack setups, guess its due to the availability factor that people might have stuck to the original suggestions.

Guess i need more help than i thought i would need to complete the project.
Please  :help: :help: :help:

Regards,
Rick

@rookie,
A trainer of 30"x8", or 240sqin, or 1.66sqft wing area,
Weighing 1.2-1.4kg, or 48-50oz
With a 438watt motor,
In other words having a wing loading of 30oz/sqft, and power loading of 150watts/lb,
Is beyond my experience or even imagination! (For a trainer)

Better i stop my comments on this thread to avoid confusing you.

Will leave you with 2 short videos. (5seconds & 50 seconds)
1. Indore Bipe, 288sqin, 280gms, wing loading under 5oz/sqft, power 25watts. See how slow she flies.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUJHQWrxIlQ&t=4&ebc=ANyPxKq0YfhzE_HdbEfYIUeEFGdzsUyMjkilWPU0nStHd03J6WFPy13vnIvLI7TGFN8_9eZzpmXkWgJyY1KS6ZJt4cTvt42KHQ

2. Pilatus B4, 64" span, 900gms, wing loading about 16oz/sqft. See how fast she flies!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qS_Ji00D5ps

Best wishes for your project. Please feel free to PM me for any assistance.
Regards.

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Iyer Sir,
Please don't stop commenting, you are the only ray or hope & help.
Am still new to all this world & would need all the advice & help possible.
Am trying to read-up on wingload & powerload which is flying above my head.

Please let me know if choose the wrong plane to begin with & if at all its worth any more efforts to complete the same.
Am not even sure what are the areas i might be going wrong in.
I got extremely impressed with the 15 episode tutorial along with the build & started off without seeking advice  :banghead:

Please let me know i should abandon this or if there is a particular path / steps i need to follow to make this plane take off the ground.
I will start posting pictures soon if that will help & will take a scale / tape & measure the wingspan to begin with as immediate action & revert.

Regards,
Rick

@rookie,
Since you have a tx/rx, but have not yet spent any money on any other electronics, i suggest you look at this first:
http://www.kinetichobbies.com/kinetic-hobbies-mini-floater.html
Regards

also get some extra props, battery and a charger (kinetic-hobbies)

Second option try the one from http://www.vortex-rc.com/

Sahil

Thanks Iyer sir & Sahil.
I looked at both the options, I also happened to read that the vortex project was indeed started by a member of this forum post his experience of getting into this hobby & to help newbies like me :-).
While the Mini floater comes with all the electronics the vortex will need only a battery.

I got the message from the unwritten lines  :thumbsup: that as a beginner I am better off for a good start with either of the planes.
Guess its time to heed to the experts here  :hatsoff:

:headscratch: The vortex with trainer wing is out of stock as per the site :( would i still be good with the intermediate wing or should i stick to mini floater  8-) Please suggest.

Regards,
Rick

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit biased.

Before I answer your question, let me add little more input on wing loading. It is one of the most important but neglected factor in aeromodelling. It is simply the weight of the plane divided by the area of the wing (widely accepted unit of measurement - ounce per square feet). Apart from airfoil selection and model design, wing loading decides to a great extent how a plane will fly. Higher the wing loading, faster and heavier a plane will feel. Lighter the wing loading, slower and lighter the plane will feel.

For a beginner, it is important that the wing loading of the plane should be on the lighter side, preferably around 5-7 oz/sqft. The reason being that, beginner will have a very slow reaction response. A plane with higher wing loading will need quicker reaction response to correct and is more likely to crash due to wrong inputs. Whereas the plane with lower wing loading will be more forgiving to slow reaction response and you get more time to correct.

The disadvantage with low wing loading planes is that they are sensitive to wind. Typically for a 5-7 oz/sqft, you can fly comfortably in around calm-5 km/hr wind speed. If your flying area is windy most of the time and you have a large area, you can go for a bigger plane. Else, if you can find small park/ground, covered with trees in the boundary, it's in your best interest to go for a smaller, light wing loading plane like Mini Floater. Please note that the climate will not be same all the time of the day. The below thread will of interest to you in choosing the right time to fly:

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/best-time-to-fly-rc-planes/

Agree, any one will like to have a big, attractive plane as their first plane, but let me tell you from experience, it is very very unlikely that your first plane will be there with you forever. In all likelihood, you are going to crash it, not once, but many times. So, more important than the looks of your first plane is how much you are going to learn from it.

BTW, if you are interested in an ARF version (90% assembled) of Mini Floater, just send me a PM and I'll arrange one for you at no extra cost. Building is fun however :)

+1 . I agree with Vishal. Pls. Don't take us in the wrong way when we say you will in all likelihood crash your model. That's unfortunately how it is. I will agree with KK Iyer Sir in directing you towards the mini floater. Its a Simple, easy to fly and very forgiving aircraft. And Vishal himself is a wonderful gentleman, he will be able to guide you very extensively in this regard. And that he is willing to provide it as an ARF to you, is as good as it gets.

Thanks Iyer Sir, Vishal, Yashodan & everybody on this thread for your valuable suggestions.
Will keep you all posted on the Floater build log over a new thread.

PM sent to Vishal.

Regards,
Rick

@rookie,
Best of luck. High probability of successful maiden.
After the build, please phone vishalrao for guidance on first flight.

A tip:
A good trainer flies without any. Input from the pilot!
Usually moving the stick just a few millimeter for less than one second, is all that is required

Remember to post build log and videos...
Regards.

Thanks all for recommending Mini Floater :) I'm sure Rookie will not be disappointed.

@Rookie Meanwhile, I hope you have sufficient simulator practice. I assume, you can do the following in the simulator with ease:

1. Scale takeoff
2. Perform Eight without losing altitude both in front of you as well as sideways.
3. Can fly the airplane towards you, without getting confused with left and right inputs.
4. Land reasonably well.

Here's a good video on proper landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS2asjjrFak

If you can't do all of the above with ease, then please put more hours on the simulator.

Always remember this - The field is to revise what you have learnt on the simulator, not to learn new things. Unless of course you don't mind crashing your model.

If you have a flying group, I would highly recommend having the maiden and pre-flight checks done by an experienced pilot. Also, if possible, request the experienced pilot to stand by your side for the first few minutes. The first few minutes are critical and it is best to have an experienced pilot by your side.

Payment received from @Rookie for Mini Floater. Shipped.

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Thanks a lot Vishal.
It was a pleasure dealing with you & kinetic hobbies  :thumbsup:
Never ever did i get so much assistance basis my needs in the history of my online shopping experience.
Hats off  :hatsoff: to you. Thanks again.

Regards,
Rick

@rookie,
Perhaps you could also post a msg on this thread:
Regards.
http://www.rcindia.org/rc-outlets-and-resellers/best-hobby-shop-in-terms-of-service!/msg240121/#msg240121

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Hi Iyer Sir,

Thanks a lot for your valuable inputs & suggestions.
As you already know the Mini Floater is on the way from Vishal with a tracking number :-)
Will keep you all updated as soon as it arrives with a new thread.

Regards,
Rick

Thanks a lot Rick :) Much appreciated. Eagerly looking forward to your build log and flight video!