RC India

Dear Seniors,

I am a new person to this hobby and would like your support to help me get to know this hobby & its intricacies.

Aim - I want to scratch built the look alike of of AXN Floater Or FMS 800 Or Easystar approx same dimensions.

> As per me both the models are same except the size difference.
> I plan to use Thermocol for the same ( as i feel i can do good shaping / sanding ) various techs such as paper coating with fevicol etc can take care of strength.
> Power system ???? ( planned) 20 Amp HK ESC, with  a AXN floater replacement Brushless motor, 5x5 Prop, 1300Amp 3s lipo, servos turnigy 9Grm
> Remote ??? dependent on Mr Sai..... 6ch are out of stock....( hope Mr. Sai reads this )

Query -
> What should be the wing shape ( since I have not seen any of these models personally)  aerofiol (cross section) ? I feel as per the plane characteristics it should be no.1 or 2.
> Any issue with the power system choosen?
> Angle of attack at which the wings to be placed?
> Motor positioning (pusher type) , up tilt ? prop counter tilt.

Hoping to get lot of guidance and knowledge from all the aeromodelers out there.

Regards // Saurabh

Hey saurabh, I am also a beginner like you but want to share few images I have for wing shape, hope it helps you. Do follow advices and guidelines from seniors on these wing shapes.

A pusher type will definitely be a better choice. Try searching for Tuffy Trainer or EzyFly model. Both are pusher trainers.

Which material you are going to use Foam or Corro?

Hey amit,
Thanks.... i was searching in the forum and found this pic of easystar wing which resembles the No 2 aerofoil shape.

Lets wait and see for the comments from others....

Saurabh there is one thought I want to share with you. Many a times we get confused while searching for different models. Every model looks yummy and just after getting plans for that we change our earlier decision and want to try to make the new model. I have gone through this phase, may be other beginners also go through this.

I have gone through two unsuccessful attempts to fly a plane. First I tried to make Tuffy Trainer, for that I made wings first than realised they were not strong enough, than I tried again to make another wings with Clark-Y air foil. While making fuselage for that I realised I don't have a stick for boom, so that model is half done at present.

I got a FWS Pico Tiger Moth from a member of this forum and because of ignorance or over confidence I took that to nearest field and started flying that. It went up 20ft in the air than turned upwards down and boom.....crashed with full throttle pointing nose towards the ground. Luckily only prop broken. That day was very special to me in reference to RC hobby...I thought a lot about that and realised, I made many basic mistakes.

1. I didnt read enough about basics, what is CG? what is nose heavy or tail heavy? Other basics characteristics of RC plane flights.
2. It was a very windy day and that model was not built to be flown on a windy day specially for a first timer.
3. Lack of discipline and patience, every beginner will realise the importance of this sooner or later while pursuing this hobby.

Suddenly after that I stopped chasing and searching for different models and got back to basics. The idea is to build something which satisfies the basics, get your hands dirty and make something, doesn't matter if it doesn't fly at first, If you have followed the basics dimensions correct, it will be successful today or tomorrow.

This thread is highly helpful, go through every post every link of this thread:

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/basic-aerodynamics-for-rc-flying/

dear saurabh,
information in the following threads may also help
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266436&highlight=easystar

best regards
ashta

Ive been reading through the various blogs and knowledge blogs but its looks its never ending ....Designing the entire bit of it with calculations is not in proportion to time available... :( .

Because of this I choose a simple model to copy.... It looks like there are certain details regarding cg and motor mounting in the manual which comes with easystar...

Does anyone has a soft copy of the same... Please share or direct to the blog ....

Looks like its going to be the harder way... Amit what about you? You mentioned you were making some plane..... how much is it complete? We can talk sometime.Chk PM

looks like you have not even gone thru the link that i had given. There is a plan of the easystar. what more you want??

Thanks Astha, :salute:

I must have missed but saw it today...... :o.

The plan i could manage but the aerofoil shape of the wing (specifically for easystar) is still a mystery.

What is the cross section of the wing ? Is it same through out the span or some changes....?

Thanks Saurabh

@saurabh did u get the rx/tx ???

Not as off now but rest other electronics, other than RX TX arranged.

Banking on Mr. Sai ( rc bharat.com) presently out of stock.6ch or 4 ch.

Planning to built it in thermocol with techs to strengthen it.... coating it with paper etc.

Regds
Saurabh

@saurabh u can get it here
http://www.flyurself.com/product.php?id_product=16

Thanks Shauviks,
 Do they send PC cable along with this ??(inclusive2800/-) and how is it as compared to FLYSKY???

@saurabh call me at 8093863974 immediately

give me a mised call coz my net gonna be disconnected in 6 min it is same in performance as that of flysky

@saurabh sorry it is not included

Hello All,
further update on my venture.... the hobby is tough and tougher is to get time for it .... + the material  :headscratch:!!!

a. Copied the Easystar plan to suite my requirements. ( free hand drawing since no one had exact easystar plan)
b. To have good cut on thermacol made hot wire cutter
c. Ordered 6ch Radio from RC Bharat ( Mr. Sai) :salute:

Any queries Or comments from seniors is welcome.

Saurabh

pusher planes are damn hard to balance, and generally extra weight is required to balance out plane increasing the AUW.

 why is it so... but these are the best trainers!!

placement of battery can be used for getting the CG correct, instead of adding extra weight. normally in pusher setup you can keep the battery and receiver as close to nose as possible.

But keeping the battery close to nose, increase the risk of battery damage , when the nose hit the ground. After all beginners are prone to hit the ground while learning. I dont know but i tried many pushers , but did not succeed yet.
Sometime cg balancing problem, sometime adding wt increases , wing loading.
For balancing i always ends up with big nose area. which indirectly increases the length of the fuse with resp. to wings.

Saurabh, if the wings and fuse are made of thermocol, you need to add reinforcement of either light wood strip or carbon fibre rod also you need to strengthen the wings.

For reinforcing thermocol wing have a look at this thread:

http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/first-scratchbuilt-trainer-stick-need-help-fixing-it/msg102341/#msg102341

For easystar plan there is a thread by Ashta Sir:

http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/new-easystar-look-alike/

Have a look at this thread, you cant go wrong if you follow those pictures in that thread. Ask for help from Ashta Sir, he recently made this easystar look alike build.

Manoj, I dont have first hand experience with a pusher setup. On my recent build I had issues with CG, as my plane was tail heavy, so instead of adding weight to nose I moved battery and receiver further towards nose, I covered the battery and receiver with 4mm coro to make it safe. I got the CG correct by doing this.

I have a 48" thermocol wing, now I am trying to add a fuselage made out of thermocol in pusher setup like in easystar without ailerons, will post pics and video when done.

I have tried to give the dimensions of the ES at this thread in reply 11. enlarge the pics and u will see the dimensions.
May be some help to u.
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/easy-star-and-clone-dimensions/

Amit waiting for ur pics and videos. best of luck .

Manoj thees are pics of fuse in the making, sandwiched 2 thermocol sheets together and added a wooden light stick between them. Looking for ways to strengthen thermo fuse. Now I can understand what you were talking about regarding the CG issue. This may remain tail heavy no matter how close I place battery to the nose. Any solutions...??

@ swizera - Thanks a lot for the Easystar dimensions. will helpme a lot.
@ Amit - looks like you and i are doing the same project, nice sanding job you've done on thermacol .....a few queries.

> what material you are using ... Thermacol ??? I did went through your reinforcement techs they are helpful.
FIN and Stabiliser will be too fragile with thermacol even with reinforcement, i am looking for depron ( or high density thermacol sheets)
> what power system you plan to use?
> where will you put the ESC Battery etc... what i plan was use 3 sheets instead and have cavity in the middle sheet for space for battery and esc. this will also give more strength to fuse.
> How you plan to mount motor?
> PM your mobile no. so we can further exchange ... views

Saurabh, I have used same dimensions for fuse which (Manoj) swizera, has uploaded.

Till now everything is thermocol, wings and fuse both. For wing reinforcement I have used wooden spar, fibre tape, 25% diluted Fevicol SH and tissue paper.

For fuse I have added a wooden spar between both sheets. After creating cavities for servo and other electrical parts, I will use Fevicol and tissue paper on fuse also, and then fibre tape.

For control surfaces, I am planning to use 3mm / 4mm coro sheet.

Power system would be 2211/13 motor with 30AMP ESC and 2200 3S batteries.

Where to place battery and ESC have to be figured out yet, depends upon CG, what would be the correct place, will upload pics again when that part is done.

For motor mount again will refer to Ashta Sir's easystar plan, using 2/3mm ply.

I always face the same problem , every time i went for a pusher. Best u can do is
1. Place the servos near to the nose as much as possible.
2. as it will belly land, try to wrap or put some small balsa or wood or small aluminium plate at nose belly side. it will safe the nose while hitting, belly while landing and  will Increase NOSE Weight fot Cg.
3. make a bunch of rs 5 coin and put on nose somewhere.
4. If it is possible then increase the nose lenghth.

Amit after all this i strongly request u to make the plane as light as u can. 

Needing one advice...
How will we come to know that the battery has reached the low voltage and we need not discharge it further.
Does everyone flies their planes with Low voltage alarms??? Or is there another way?
I want to take precaution as i have lost one battery due to over discharging.
regds
Saurabh

Saurab
While flying u will fell low power . Further u should land your plane and check the battery , then if is has juice can fly again.
People fly with low voltage alarm, as they are very small and light weight.  I am also taking one and will fly  with that.

I got your point, So the low voltage alarm is important.
Just another query what is low voltage cut in ESC?? will it not serve the purpose.

Hello friends,
here is so far update of my project.....
 
Hope is resembles easystar, dimensions are are a bit smaller than easystar .

@Amit - as your suggestion i put the tissue paper with fevicol but now there are wrinkles all over the wing .. i tried the best to do.

Any remedy other than sanding... do we get covering sheets to make surface smooth ( i know HK but want to limit budget)
Celo tape is one option...

one major challenge is to cut the wing slot in fuse--- anything you try the cut will not be straight... any suggestions... to make things tough i have sealed bandage between the sheets as a reinforcement ( its too strong)

two more things
What is the best angle for wings ( angle of attack )??
What should be the motor direction how many degree up and left???

Hope to get answers to this....

Just check a long piece of thermocol by covering light tissue paper and attach with adhesive (fevicol marine diluted with water). Dry it and test the rigidness of that body. Though you have reinforced with wooden member, you will find the culprit (FOR CG) might not be required.
You can color the tissue easily with water color too. And while fixing two or more piece of thermocol, please use tissue in between thermocol pieces for better joint.
Just a idea.

thanks but i have not used any wood in the easystar look alike...wing span is 1000mm so not putting any spar and relying on the wing reinforcement.

Plane is looking nice saurabh.  {:)}

 {:)} {:)} {:)} great finish you got there sourabh....amazing..some wrinkles will be there no matter how carefully you apply Fevicol Solution.

Saurabh, How strong u fell the parts , after applying the fevicol solution ?

Suggestions For Post #32 - wing opening.

Rather than try to cut the opening for the exact aerofoil shape, try to cut a rectangular opening. Then add thermocol in the center of the wing and shape it to the dimension of the opening in the fuse. This will be lot easier.

Keep the angle of attack as 0 for starters.... go from there.

Nice hands...you should create the mold out of your built and start producing the plane in bulk...good work..
 :hatsoff:

Thanks Sandeep for the comment, but 90% of good work is due to good hot wire cutter.... It makes the work lot easier.

@ swizera - Tissue coat with fevicol gives very good rigidness.....My WS is 1000mm and I am planning to go without spar..... a double coat with tissue and fevicol will give extra strength.
Try using high density thermacol. Once the wings are cut by hot wire they are very strong due to layer of melted thermacol on both surfaces but once you sand it ... it looses the strength, this is where fevicol coat plays role.
For fuse I had put bandage cloth in between 2 sheets ... this gives good strength..... only issue is that it becomes very tough to cut through ( hot wire does not cut the cloth !!!!).

@ PankajC - Thanks for the suggestion for the wing slot.... that is exactly I would do, But
I argue for 0 degree AOI.... simply just because all trainers have it........ Will 0 deg give more stability.....?? (This will be my first plane and first flight - no prior experience so want a stable plane)

On the second option I was thinking to cutting the fuse through the wing cord line and put hinge under motor and screws on other side ( do not worry I can do that in the lightest way) that way I can set up to have diff AOIs.

Personally I would prefer to have a fixed AOI (3-4 deg as in Easy star)

What do you suggest? 

Regds
Saurabh

Bump for Mr. PankajC comments....

Great effort  :hatsoff:

Saurabh,
On the incidence angle, I am have no qualification to say how much of AOI is stable. I simply understand that the AOI increases the lift to a certain degree, however, the same can be achieved with a slight up elevator as well - slight tail down would increase angle between the air and the LE of the wing.

Thats what I generally do....

Excellent workmanship saurabh. It loks realy nice.
Now if you have not flown before, do take the help from other experienced fliers. You have made it very nice looking  thru ur pains taking efforts.
best of luck
ashta

Such comments from senior members make me feel elated and inspire me to further indulge into hobby.... my next venture would be a replica of HK funjet....easystar replica took me nearly 2 month planning & acquiring material. With your wishes let me see how fun jet will come out.
Need to do exhaustive study to understand the aerodynamics of a jet..... if you have something or some ref. thread please send or advice.

Thanks /// saurabh

Dear Astha ji,
I knew it that i will get answers from you  searched a little and found this post of yours...
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/simple-funjet/msg31645/#msg31645

Please guide me on the motor part, Propeller & material used... where can i get high density thermacol 10mm sheets ( i guess these are called depron sheets)

regds
Saurabh

Depron is different from Thermocol.
in thermocol, you get different densities. Local shops selling thermocol will have different density ones. In bangalore, i know that it is available near shivajinagar.
As far as motors a good general purpose motor for jets is
2212-06 with a 60X40  prop

Wow! Nice build Saurabh....!  :thumbsup:

No updates  Saurabh .  Did you maiden it ?

hobby is time consuming .... i am a full time telecom engineer.....so get very less time for the hobby......
Update without Pics...
1. I have not maiden it yet....
2. I have cut the wing slot, canopy cut to get access to battery cavity
3. Once complete i will ask VC & gusty sirs tips on any correction ( this sat & sun)
4. Wings are done rigid enough without spar
4. I am not finding control wires... thin steel wires... I found 1mm wire which i think does not suite the requirement. any clue on this?? Has anyone tried Badminton guts they will serve the purpose if properly put through snakes.

rest i will post with PICs....
regds
Saurabh

try GI wire of about 2mm dia. For planes upto 800gms this is what I use. Its available almost on all hardware shops.

regards
Pankaj

Hello all,
Further update .. i could find time last night so did the pending work....
VC & Gusty sir need your views and any mistake i have left.... I will be online to reply /answer soon

My queries....
1> Although not plan to use Ailerons for the first flight ( cut them so that later its easy for me as wings will be fixed)
Are the ailerons size OK ? I felt they are small....should have been 3-5 CM bigger

2> Power system is the AXN floater motor 2200rpm/v with 20Amp ESC and 1300mAh Battery (25-30c)

3> I have a 5/5 & 6/4 prop (5/5 gives vibrations feel not balanced) so i am left with 6/4. any easy way to balance prop.

4> as for normal pusher problem even after full caution it is tail heavy!!! so need to put extra 5Rs coins on nose tip to balance

5> control servo need to be put and connected ( will add additional tail weight - control wire)

6> I tried with the power it has good thrust ( with 6/4prop) but as per the thrust line it pushes the plan down.... this is normal with pusher as i read but still i fail to believe that it will go up.

7> the Aerofoil shape is as per the fig below.... I missed the curve on the top towards trailing edge... ( used hot wire cutter so it gave a straight cut) how much impact it can have on Lift?

8> all control surfaces are 1inch wide. couldnt find relation for these so took as per easystar, Bixler.

Thanks in advance looking forward for your views and comments. I plan to fly this tomorrow morning  :-\
 

saurabh
great going keep the CG at 55. when you toss do not toss with full power, just half throttle then slowly pick her up. remember in a podded engine, with opening of power the nose pitches down. if you are not confident, tell some experienced modeler to do it for you. rest is fine,

Trivia
your aerofoil is not the same as the easy or sky surfer, these have a prominent reflex camber, this trap the high pressure area and for its role both these aeroplanes performs very well

have you gone through  this thread Conquer your Maiden Flight Woes (http://www.rcindia.org/beginners-zone/conquer-your-maiden-flight-woes!!!/)

Saurabh, all the best for your maiden  :thumbsup:. Once Gusty has commented, I don't think I am qualified enough to add any further value. :salute:

Let me say just one thing. It is looking SUPERB  {:)} {:)}

how you put dihedreal into foam ? like that .

Gaaazaab....

Saurabh,
What you have as ailerons is usually the place for flaps. Ailerons are further away. If you have smaller ailerons, the they need to be right on the tips. Think about it as a simple lever - remember effort x distance from fulcrum?

Pankaj

Thanks  a lot Gusty & VC sir,
 
CG at 55 ..... You mean i should keep CG at 55mm (1/3 of 160mm) right and not 55% of chord  :headscratch:

Can you please post the pic of the aerofoil you mentioned for easystar? i'll see if that can be done?

@swizera- please see pic you will understand how I gave the shape to the wing....
@ Pankaj - You are right ... In want to make it fast i did not give much thought on it  :P

regds
Saurabh

55mm my bad, dont worry about the reflex camber, fly it as it is

Could complete the control surface connections.... some guests at home so have to postpone the test flight....

Gusty sir, Is the thrust angle of motor OK ?? seems to be to too high.... shouldn't I reduce it a bit???

Please advice .....

As suggested by you I will fly as is .... but could you post a sample of reverse camber.....is it like the one ticked below??

if you look at the root chord of the ezee, merlin, kinetic you will see , reflex camber clearly

Thrust line is fine, be gentle on throttle even in flight

Balancing the prop.......

Initially I thought that the props are well balanced but there was lot of vibrations and sound so gave it a try....
saw some videos on balancing the props and came out with this simple tech to balance.

Both Popllers i had are TGS Sport 6x4E & 5x5E Precision propellers and both were out of balance as seen in videos I had to put cello tape  on the lighter blade ( tape used is almost covering full blade). Notice the Blue & red tape on the propellers.

But i must say there is significant improvement, the motor is running very smooth & no vibrations there is nice sound of motor which is usually heard on HK videos.

With the setup i am not getting 100% balance but yes major flaw is removed. More than satisfied with an hours efforts.

Its the ballpen refill  with some what exact size of prop shaft hole in middle of a pet bottle.
hope pictures did clears the doubts.

I have put ballpen nibs at both ends to have min friction so that prop rotates freely.

Finally its done.... tomorrow Maiden flight.....

Hope it flies..... notice Canopy !!!! Shampoo bottle!!!!   :giggle:

put some red blue tape to smooth surface and strength.... will post pics if it remains in air that long....!!!! 8-)

Dear Saurabh... wish you luck for your maiden...  hope everything comes out great..

It flew Great......   {:)}  {:)}  {:)}

It is very tough to fly which i got to learn today.... As others suggested I took good decision to ask experienced person to fly...

Mr. Jamal ( very experienced & helpful person) did the first maiden... Thanks to him  :hatsoff:.

Total of 4 flights were done and i did took control for some time but could not handle it for more than 30sec...
The 3 flights & landing were successful but in fourth it had some flaw and landed on nose which broke.

Overall very nice experience & Satisfying.

> The power was great (AXN motor) did go vertical
> It was little less stable
> Ailerons were missing   :-\

Thanks to Gusty & VC for helping me out on this project.

Field was great too and did see some good planes all were Nitro and my plane was the smallest   ???

Congratulations on your maiden. Don't know why you are thanking me, it was all your effort and Gusty's advice. A video would add value to this thread. Well done!

VC sir.... having a person standing by you who can provide help when required is worth thanking.... I know i have someone who can help when needed...

I was flabbergasted  to first time see huge nitro planes + success of my plane flying and trying to figure out how others are using Tx sticks.... to capture video. Could just take a snap.

I need to practice a lot before actually flying myself.

Help - I charged the lipos full ... one was used the other one was not.... how do i discharge to storage voltage (i have a basic charger without discharging feature.... I plan to use 12Volt car Headlight to discharge to 3.8Volt per cell Is it OK.....

congrats saurabh ! good show, just run it in the aeroplane :)

where did you place the reciever?

Inside canopy with antenna on the top... see the pic where plane in put on car back.

Inside canopy with antenna on the top... see the pic where plane in put on car back.

Hello all,

Since i got time i did the nose job on to this one as well and added ailerons, again this flew great at the start but gave a strange problem Mr. Arvind ( who was flying ) said it appears that the plane loses control i.e control surfaces do not respond.

However when we check on ground they are fine  :headscratch:.

The same TX & RX worked great after this on my atom lookalike  :headscratch:.

what can be the issue ???? only thing i can imagine is that maybe ESC is getting hot ( its 20Amp ESC) which leads misbehaving of servos.

Battery was not the issue.    :help:  :help:.... anyone with similar problem ???

Only way to test it is to do a run test of electronics on ground.

Help required for the strange problem faced. mentioned in above post.

for theoretical ground u can look at the e-book Jon Dansie Model Aircraft Design.pdf it is really very helpful for model aircraft design by yourself.

HI,

Can you share the plans for ES.

Regards

Mjet send you mail id i will send what plans / dimensions i have

hi,

saurabh, chk my coro version of the easy star.

pics below.

saw it fly and was a nice flier !     

Hi sandeep,
Checked it already!!!! very nice plane..... waiting for you to post the wing description and winglets are excellent.

AXN motor is fantastic !!!! with 6x4 prop good enough thrust.... what do you feel....

a nice thin thermocol u can get by cutting XXL paper plates......

how much flying time do you get with this plane ?

with my version it gave something from 7 min to 10 min on 1300Mah battery. Throttle off it used to glide.

thanks sir very nice build sir.

Nice glider sir. :)