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« on: March 27, 2012, 11:08:59 PM »
bhanuflying
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Developing an Delta wing ...capable of Vertical takeoff and landing capabalities .....specifications of my delta
wing span:154.36 cm
wing area:0.048 m2
Aspect ratio:4.76
Designed using CATIA V5 R18 a 3d cad utility for designing .....and total structure is made of balsa...
70% of assembly is done .....uploading the pics......flight video soon...

DELTA WING.jpg
VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 11:23:10 PM »
Swapnil
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Wow! That's one awesome project! Thumbs Up
Could you please share the details of the vertical lift system you are using?
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 11:28:36 PM »
bhanuflying
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sure swapnil the lift fans are ducted fans .....placed on the aft of the wings.....the points of lift fans are calculated theortically...they

they are 90mm edf from hobbyking -dcuted fans

2012-03-26 12.23.18.jpg
Re: VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 08:34:49 AM »
Swapnil
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When you asked about the 'power spider' in another thread I thought it was a beginner asking and hence said that it's gonna be a difficult build.

But, man, your work is pure awesome!  Clap
Now the rcindia.org main page is going to be open on my PCs and android all the time till I see a flight video of this bird!  Drool
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 10:09:05 AM »
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On the lifting dcuted fans, for stabilizing, will you be using thrust vectoring or deferential thrust. Also the dcuted fan at the back, is it fixed or will it transform from lifter to pusher configuration?
Nice project  Clap
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 03:02:11 PM »
ujjwaana
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Quite an ambitious project.... VTOL on a pure Delta is quite a task. Your model reminds me of another Horten IX flying wing project which inspired me!

Keep us posted.
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 03:16:54 PM »
Jatayu
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Looking at the aerodynamic aspects, getting a delta airborne and into forward flight requires quite a lot of effort due for leading edge vortex formation, Delta's take off at AoA> 10 to 15 degrees.Have you done some stability and dynamic analysis on it? can you post some results ?

Al the best for your project!
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 06:17:49 PM »
bhanuflying
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@sawapnil.....sure we are working hours to wrap of the assembly of fans over the wing......may within two days u can see the first flight test video....of the delta.....
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 06:20:01 PM »
bhanuflying
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@SunLikeStar ...thank you sir...sir the pusher fan is fixed one and as per time constraints i am no where using tilt mechanism......and also vectoring...first i try out conventionally.....
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 06:21:48 PM »
bhanuflying
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@ujjwaana ....For this concept i am working from past 1 and half year....and finally @ last stages...sir.....
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 06:26:22 PM »
bhanuflying
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@Jatayu ...yes i did stability analysis for the design....def ill post the results .....and actually i made an prototype ...of this 8 months back with out vtol...it was sucessful....and i itroduced vtol..to it.....but deltas are more pitch sensitves.....may req..such aoa....
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2012, 07:18:11 PM »
Dharmik
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Hey bhanu bro this is really awesome project. I wish you all the best for it. I am not an expert but two things comes in my mind.
1.as you said wingspan is 5 feet will those 9mm DF able to produce enough lift. I am sure you might have done some calculations.
2. I am not sure but you will need microcontroller to stabilize this wing especially during vertical takeoff. I think hk board with dual copter fw will help you.
Whatever it may be but your concept is new. I am waiting for more updates.
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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 07:22:59 PM »
bhanuflying
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@dharmik..thanks a lot bro..it is 90mm edf not 9mm...i did calculation bro...and purchased dem.....ya....i am goin to ready hk board as u told....thanks again for ur help in buying hk board...
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 08:52:38 PM »
sbajare
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hi,

the design concept is good. however with the ducts being situated at the tips it would create more lateral balancing problems.

i would suggest that both the ducts be moved inward an use smaller ducts on the tips for balancing and fwd thrust.

one more thing the main ducts will operate only during vtol mode and should shut off in fwd flight. reentry into hover mode and the ducts come on again.

quite tricky but with todays electronic gizmos and a little bit of programming quite possible.

vtol operation in this model is doubtfull. first of all edfs work at high rpms to give thrust and consume a lot of amps hence the duration is very low. with two edfs ( + 3rd for thrust )and all the electronics. what size lipo are u planning to use?

as per newtons law to lift 1kg vertically you need 10kg thrust.

regds


   
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 09:23:23 PM »
Swapnil
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as per newtons law to lift 1kg vertically you need 10kg thrust...
Huh? Head Scratching How is that Sandeep sir? I thought it needs to be equal and opposite???

Bhanu are those EDFs 1500W or 2400W. And which Lipo are you going to use? (because I was thinking about starting a similar project. Smiley )
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2012, 12:56:19 PM »
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Bhanu
Leaving all the mumbo jumbo behind, there are certain issues that concerns me on your design, those are :

(a) Your lift engines are aft the C of G, at lift off, she will pitch down - you will need a Tri Config, something like the attached image of Yak 38 (Which, like you config had separate Lift engines and Forward flight engine)

(b) Since it is rc aeroplane, you can easily swivel the lift engine mount, see if you can do that

(c) Lift produced is due to differential pressure on top and bottom surface of the wing, presence of the EDF will equalise this pressure and most , if not all of the wing tip will not produce any lift, it will be a dead weight throughout the flight, you have to, not only stop lift engine in forward flight, you have to close it as well,

(d) Pitch down needs to be catered, else as a pure VTOL ? she will be non-starter, however you can run your forward thrust motor and lift motors at low rpm and achieve take off and landing with a fairly small ground run.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Yak-38_Lift_Engines_NT.PNG
VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 07:26:17 PM »
bhanuflying
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@rcpilotacro .....thank u for your post....i got third fan as a pusher and the remaining points u mentioned i am following the same......
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2012, 07:29:54 PM »
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@Swapnil .....i am using 6s lipo.5000 mah.........they r 90mm edf...power is 1600 rpm/kv...
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2012, 07:32:37 PM »
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@sbajare ..sir as per vtol basic concepts....if there two or more lift fans.....placed well away from c.g...modulation of lift thrust can be used for control in vertical flight..i am using this concept....sir...
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2012, 07:39:54 PM »
bhanuflying
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Finished assembly of fans....and servos.....

2012-04-04 14.31.28.jpg
Re: VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 07:59:20 PM »
Swapnil
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Looking good!
Is that a multicopter board in the last pic?
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 08:03:40 PM »
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yes swapnil....and covering in progress...soon for flight test.... Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2012, 08:45:13 AM »
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some suggestions .... take it or leave it....  but think on it....


1>as said... having 2 EDF behind the CG loc u   will have a a pitch down  as soon  as u open throttle..

2> even if u  say that it is on the CG then ur problems are  just getting started.... it will  be like balancing on a rope.... u will even have pitching prob while howering as with 2 it will mostly roll.....suggested u put a 3rd EDF near the nose...

3> so how do manage to use the EDF when in forward flight.... ?? so u cant use the throttle channel as u will need it for forward flight.. if u have a  flap nob on ur transmitter(not a switch ... a dial nob) u can use that....

4> as bajare sir said.... keeping  the EDF far apart it will be difficult to  control... cos a small input will increase to a great extent( due to  larger moment  arm) ... suggested to keep it near ... or half way  the span....

5> try using the HK board for all the axis.... they work really  well for balancing.. 

6> u can even try out thrust vectoring for the 3rd EDF...( the one pusher) so that u donot need to add  a third EDF fro balancing

any ways these are just suggestions...ur call...

thanks
vishvesh
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »
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@AEROVISHWA ...thank u sir for your valuble suggestions....what the points u suggested.....are almost true....i got same doubts after instaling fans that it ill have a pitchdown moment......as u mentioned we r planning to tie at c. :)g point and check vtol balancing not going for flight straightly....once again thanks for ur suggestions it helps me in correcting my model.....thank u sir Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2012, 08:34:55 PM »
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Finally finished assembling of components and covering and ready for flight test....goin to have my first flight test 2mmorow....ill post the video 2mmorow. Smiley

2012-04-12 14.16.10.jpg
Re: VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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