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« on: March 27, 2012, 11:08:59 PM »
bhanuflying
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Developing an Delta wing ...capable of Vertical takeoff and landing capabalities .....specifications of my delta
wing span:154.36 cm
wing area:0.048 m2
Aspect ratio:4.76
Designed using CATIA V5 R18 a 3d cad utility for designing .....and total structure is made of balsa...
70% of assembly is done .....uploading the pics......flight video soon...

DELTA WING.jpg
VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 11:23:10 PM »
Swapnil
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Wow! That's one awesome project! Thumbs Up
Could you please share the details of the vertical lift system you are using?
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 11:28:36 PM »
bhanuflying
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sure swapnil the lift fans are ducted fans .....placed on the aft of the wings.....the points of lift fans are calculated theortically...they

they are 90mm edf from hobbyking -dcuted fans

2012-03-26 12.23.18.jpg
Re: VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 08:34:49 AM »
Swapnil
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When you asked about the 'power spider' in another thread I thought it was a beginner asking and hence said that it's gonna be a difficult build.

But, man, your work is pure awesome!  Clap
Now the rcindia.org main page is going to be open on my PCs and android all the time till I see a flight video of this bird!  Drool
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 10:09:05 AM »
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On the lifting dcuted fans, for stabilizing, will you be using thrust vectoring or deferential thrust. Also the dcuted fan at the back, is it fixed or will it transform from lifter to pusher configuration?
Nice project  Clap
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 03:02:11 PM »
ujjwaana
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Quite an ambitious project.... VTOL on a pure Delta is quite a task. Your model reminds me of another Horten IX flying wing project which inspired me!

Keep us posted.
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 03:16:54 PM »
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Looking at the aerodynamic aspects, getting a delta airborne and into forward flight requires quite a lot of effort due for leading edge vortex formation, Delta's take off at AoA> 10 to 15 degrees.Have you done some stability and dynamic analysis on it? can you post some results ?

Al the best for your project!
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 06:17:49 PM »
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@sawapnil.....sure we are working hours to wrap of the assembly of fans over the wing......may within two days u can see the first flight test video....of the delta.....
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 06:20:01 PM »
bhanuflying
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@SunLikeStar ...thank you sir...sir the pusher fan is fixed one and as per time constraints i am no where using tilt mechanism......and also vectoring...first i try out conventionally.....
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 06:21:48 PM »
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@ujjwaana ....For this concept i am working from past 1 and half year....and finally @ last stages...sir.....
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2012, 06:26:22 PM »
bhanuflying
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@Jatayu ...yes i did stability analysis for the design....def ill post the results .....and actually i made an prototype ...of this 8 months back with out vtol...it was sucessful....and i itroduced vtol..to it.....but deltas are more pitch sensitves.....may req..such aoa....
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2012, 07:18:11 PM »
Dharmik
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Hey bhanu bro this is really awesome project. I wish you all the best for it. I am not an expert but two things comes in my mind.
1.as you said wingspan is 5 feet will those 9mm DF able to produce enough lift. I am sure you might have done some calculations.
2. I am not sure but you will need microcontroller to stabilize this wing especially during vertical takeoff. I think hk board with dual copter fw will help you.
Whatever it may be but your concept is new. I am waiting for more updates.
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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 07:22:59 PM »
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@dharmik..thanks a lot bro..it is 90mm edf not 9mm...i did calculation bro...and purchased dem.....ya....i am goin to ready hk board as u told....thanks again for ur help in buying hk board...
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2012, 08:52:38 PM »
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hi,

the design concept is good. however with the ducts being situated at the tips it would create more lateral balancing problems.

i would suggest that both the ducts be moved inward an use smaller ducts on the tips for balancing and fwd thrust.

one more thing the main ducts will operate only during vtol mode and should shut off in fwd flight. reentry into hover mode and the ducts come on again.

quite tricky but with todays electronic gizmos and a little bit of programming quite possible.

vtol operation in this model is doubtfull. first of all edfs work at high rpms to give thrust and consume a lot of amps hence the duration is very low. with two edfs ( + 3rd for thrust )and all the electronics. what size lipo are u planning to use?

as per newtons law to lift 1kg vertically you need 10kg thrust.

regds


   
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2012, 09:23:23 PM »
Swapnil
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as per newtons law to lift 1kg vertically you need 10kg thrust...
Huh? Head Scratching How is that Sandeep sir? I thought it needs to be equal and opposite???

Bhanu are those EDFs 1500W or 2400W. And which Lipo are you going to use? (because I was thinking about starting a similar project. Smiley )
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2012, 12:56:19 PM »
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Bhanu
Leaving all the mumbo jumbo behind, there are certain issues that concerns me on your design, those are :

(a) Your lift engines are aft the C of G, at lift off, she will pitch down - you will need a Tri Config, something like the attached image of Yak 38 (Which, like you config had separate Lift engines and Forward flight engine)

(b) Since it is rc aeroplane, you can easily swivel the lift engine mount, see if you can do that

(c) Lift produced is due to differential pressure on top and bottom surface of the wing, presence of the EDF will equalise this pressure and most , if not all of the wing tip will not produce any lift, it will be a dead weight throughout the flight, you have to, not only stop lift engine in forward flight, you have to close it as well,

(d) Pitch down needs to be catered, else as a pure VTOL ? she will be non-starter, however you can run your forward thrust motor and lift motors at low rpm and achieve take off and landing with a fairly small ground run.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Yak-38_Lift_Engines_NT.PNG
VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 07:26:17 PM »
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@rcpilotacro .....thank u for your post....i got third fan as a pusher and the remaining points u mentioned i am following the same......
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2012, 07:29:54 PM »
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@Swapnil .....i am using 6s lipo.5000 mah.........they r 90mm edf...power is 1600 rpm/kv...
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2012, 07:32:37 PM »
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@sbajare ..sir as per vtol basic concepts....if there two or more lift fans.....placed well away from c.g...modulation of lift thrust can be used for control in vertical flight..i am using this concept....sir...
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2012, 07:39:54 PM »
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Finished assembly of fans....and servos.....

2012-04-04 14.31.28.jpg
Re: VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 07:59:20 PM »
Swapnil
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Looking good!
Is that a multicopter board in the last pic?
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 08:03:40 PM »
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yes swapnil....and covering in progress...soon for flight test.... Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2012, 08:45:13 AM »
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some suggestions .... take it or leave it....  but think on it....


1>as said... having 2 EDF behind the CG loc u   will have a a pitch down  as soon  as u open throttle..

2> even if u  say that it is on the CG then ur problems are  just getting started.... it will  be like balancing on a rope.... u will even have pitching prob while howering as with 2 it will mostly roll.....suggested u put a 3rd EDF near the nose...

3> so how do manage to use the EDF when in forward flight.... ?? so u cant use the throttle channel as u will need it for forward flight.. if u have a  flap nob on ur transmitter(not a switch ... a dial nob) u can use that....

4> as bajare sir said.... keeping  the EDF far apart it will be difficult to  control... cos a small input will increase to a great extent( due to  larger moment  arm) ... suggested to keep it near ... or half way  the span....

5> try using the HK board for all the axis.... they work really  well for balancing.. 

6> u can even try out thrust vectoring for the 3rd EDF...( the one pusher) so that u donot need to add  a third EDF fro balancing

any ways these are just suggestions...ur call...

thanks
vishvesh
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »
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@AEROVISHWA ...thank u sir for your valuble suggestions....what the points u suggested.....are almost true....i got same doubts after instaling fans that it ill have a pitchdown moment......as u mentioned we r planning to tie at c. :)g point and check vtol balancing not going for flight straightly....once again thanks for ur suggestions it helps me in correcting my model.....thank u sir Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2012, 08:34:55 PM »
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Finally finished assembling of components and covering and ready for flight test....goin to have my first flight test 2mmorow....ill post the video 2mmorow. Smiley

2012-04-12 14.16.10.jpg
Re: VTOL DELTA WING ...DEVELOPING THE WING FOR MY FINAL PROJECT AS A UAV....
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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2012, 09:15:05 PM »
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Nice f1 chequered flag..
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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2012, 09:16:21 PM »
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@ dharmik........thank you bro...
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« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2012, 09:21:48 PM »
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Is it college project bhanu bro? It seems like you are making it in workshop or lab.
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« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2012, 09:23:55 PM »
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@dharmik...yes bro its my final year project....it is my aerodynamics lab....u can see a big windtunnel....nxt to my model...
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« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2012, 09:39:59 PM »
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Bhanu bro i don't have much knowledge of wings but you will need delta mixing on your tx i think. I wish you all the best. I really want to see this wing in the sky.
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« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2012, 09:42:06 PM »
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@dharmik....yes bro i got elevon mixing in my rx and sure.....i am also waitibg to see it flying Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2012, 10:05:19 PM »
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looks cool!!!!
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« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2012, 10:10:58 PM »
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« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2012, 10:51:23 PM »
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@ashJR7202 ..thank u.... Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2012, 10:52:23 PM »
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@VC sir...thank u so much sir..ill soon update with flight test videos.
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« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2012, 04:30:19 AM »
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bhanu how is power plant rigged, and how are you going to operate it,
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« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2012, 10:50:28 AM »
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Finally finished assembling of components and covering and ready for flight test....goin to have my first flight test 2mmorow....ill post the video 2mmorow. Smiley

one thing i confused? did you ever thought to eliminate ailrones ? offcourse, i'm not studied like you but think, image(2012-04-12 14.34.13.jpg) shown me two fans on wings - shows that using these may be you can use the fans for "roll" movement, just need to config ESC- for reverse(not compulsory) thrust.


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« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2012, 11:46:02 AM »
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@dharmik...yes bro its my final year project....it is my aerodynamics lab....u can see a big windtunnel....nxt to my model...
wat exactly you are studing? great lab-workshop do you have...Wink
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« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2012, 01:25:14 PM »
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« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2012, 03:10:08 PM »
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hmm..vtol with ducted fans. Not sure if it could provide the initial torque for lift off or I may be wrong.
 Looking at the positioning of ducted fans it looks like it might pich down. What is used as a stabilization unit?
Not sure if gyros alone can handle these. Problem with all the VTOL is the response time - gyros sense the instability and feed the ESC about the throttling adjustments, it would already be late and would have inclined in one direction. Difficult to do with two rotors!  
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« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2012, 04:44:13 PM »
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@rcpilotacro ....sir u can see in pics ..two fans facing upwards and one fan facing straight ...so two fans for vtol and one fan for forward....
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« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2012, 04:45:11 PM »
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@PiyushI ..ya we can use fans to control but i need the elevons so i designed like dat. i am studieng Aeronautical engineering in chennai...
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« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2012, 04:47:02 PM »
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@roopeshkrishna ...thank u. Smiley
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« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2012, 04:48:30 PM »
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@foamybuilder ...initially we also thought the same what u mentioned but finally we fixed this config,, so working on it...hoping best..
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« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2012, 02:47:29 PM »
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got problem with hk control board working on that so flight test delayed and tested three fans separately got great thrust from fans posting video of 120mm edf test at half throttle.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqxl9jzaXJY&feature=youtu.be
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« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2012, 03:25:27 PM »
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Bhanu
points for your looking into

(a) You must have realised by now , covering needs to be re-done, it is sagging
(b) Conventionally chequered covering is put on the undersurface of the wing
(c) I saw one guy shoving his hand in front of the edf, it is dangerous, edf is a sucker, people have ended up with dismembered finger,

Check youtube, one chap lost some portion of his manhood to these RC monsters
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« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2012, 03:38:22 PM »
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@rcpilotacro ..sir covering work goin on sir removed portion where damaged and new covering started . got red checker only here in chennai....so only used that sir
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« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2012, 03:43:11 PM »
sundaram
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one chap lost some portion of his manhood to these RC monsters

wonder what he was attempting with his EDF   >Cheesy >Cheesy  ROFL
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« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2012, 03:51:11 PM »
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Bhanu, from the video it looks like your lift motors are still fixed Huh? I would like to hear your idea/plan to balance the craft while take off and landing. Because what you have right now cannot hover. Three lifting fans or two tilting lifting fans is the minimum requirement to achieve that AFIAK.
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« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2012, 04:03:35 PM »
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Thats the bottomline. Rightly said sunlikestar +1
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« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2012, 05:12:22 PM »
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wonder what he was attempting with his EDF   >Cheesy >Cheesy  ROFL

 ROFL
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« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2012, 05:32:33 PM »
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bhanu

i was wondering whatever happened to this VTOL

PS
this one from steve for you

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/basic-aerodynamics-for-rc-flying/msg104721/#msg104721
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« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2012, 05:32:54 PM »
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Bhanu

What happened to this project, no news, if you dont mind, could you share it with us,
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« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2012, 05:40:01 PM »
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@rcpilotacro .....sir all the things i finished assembling of fans and all but at last of my project control board faild and also i am new to control boards so a reference i met a professor in my university wid his small help i managed to finish proj as per course but orginal tought of vtol yet to be tested due to lack of knowledge in control boards and also time now i got free now i am searching ways to finish this so tought of posting earlier no iam posting so people here can me help me out solving control board area plz so that we can see this bird flying....
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« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2014, 06:10:25 PM »
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Hello Guys Hope you remember me and about my project .Speaking about this it has stalled due to various reasons quick finishing of my bachelor course moving to Germany for my master degree .So I want to update regarding this project right now I am almost in finishing my master degree with specialization in Aircraft control frankly speaking this project Lead me to take up that course and as a final level project I am designing new flight control laws for this type of designs and simulations are being running for this configuration needs some time to evaluate it fully and design a good control system for this vehicle and with minor changes in the design and with new control module this thing will going to start soon .

Wishes to everyone here and Happy Flying
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« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2014, 07:00:40 PM »
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Re:

Great .... Nice to get into a career u like ....
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« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2017, 09:23:32 AM »
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bro, amazing project..
what is the net weight after installing all the components ?
and how far from ground it can do VTOL ?

im dng a similar project. give me your contact info, so that i can talk with u for doubts Smiley
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