RC India

hellos all...

i removed a cell phone vibrator motor from my old reliance phone.

its so small and fast that it can be used for indoor micro light aircrafts. basically i make very small chuck planes...look at attached image

still trying to make it practical... but any help form you experts is much appreciated!
thanks!!
kartik

Thts gr8.
I also have a cell vibrator
motor 4m a nokia phne.
How did u removed the
weight from the spindle.
And what prop did u use.
How did u mount them.
That spindle is so thin,just
like a needle.

thats the main problem..removing the weight...my dad is a Electronic tech....so what he did was...he heated the weight using a lighter...that sort of lighter which gives off a flame like a jet...then as quickly as possible he pulled the weight out...

about the prop...i cant find any suitable prop..so hence i decided to make a prop my self...u get some hard flexible plastic when you buy a new shirt...inside the collar...you can use that to cut out the prop...and again use the lighter to melt very lightly to give the blades an angle...i made a small needle hole in the middle and pushed it in..and put sm feri quick so that it does not cm out.

you also have  a clamp ready on the vibrator motor...i took sm long thin screws and attached them on to my models.

ok..now all this is done...my problem now is....

1. battery source for this dam small thing.
2. two more of these kind of vibrator motor for the control surface.
3. small receiver( i think the kind of china toy heli have...it does not have a tail rotor...and its like "bavakoof mabane wala helicopter" cause it keeps on yawing!!) Must try this one!!

Lets see how this works out to be...most probly i will take a loong time before this takes to the air.

please pour in your info!

Dear kartik,

Please read my post in your last post in
http://www.rcindia.org/beginners-zone/new-rc-fan-chk-my-models-and-please-help-please/msg10972/#msg10972

The mobile phone vibrator motors are usually 4mm dia with 0.75mm dia shaft 3 - 5 mm long. Length of the motor varying between 8mm to 13 mm. I am not sure which one you have recovered. However a micro plane powered by such a motor can have a wing span of 5" to 10 inches max depending on its width.

Point to note is that, average all inclusive weight of the plane powered by such a motor is desired around 5 gms + 1 one gms max. I am not sure wether you can achive such a design.

Regarding electronics to go for such a design
Battery   max 30Mah 3.7 V (http://www.microflierradio.com/Batteries.html)
acctuators one of 0.5 gms max ( http://www.microflierradio.com/Actuators.html )
receiver 2-3 channel max 0.5 gms ( http://www.microflierradio.com/Receivers.html )
Another source of electronics is http://www.plantraco.com/ where you can find many planes design powered by a 4mm brushed coreless motors.

However before going in for such a costly electronics I would recomend you to go for a button cell holder design as described in http://www.microflierradio.com/Batteries.html and go for a small button cell of 3.2 V and design a free flight glider with the recoverd 4 mm motor powered by button cell only before venturing into Costly RC design.

This will ease out the design problems which are very critical in micro RC. Once you achive free floating flight then you may graduate to a RC system by improving upon the design further

hmmm...thanks for the info....i tried the button method....problem is that...the battery drains out exceptionally fast...like within 2 min...in that time...i cant even do my testing...and i have to change my button batteries more often...i just dropped this plan...my plane weighs around 10 gms..without the electrics...

as you said .......i was trying to make a free flight model...
only problem i am left with now is...power source...the batteries on the link you posted are promising..i will try sm different method...and also try and make a design under 5 gms...using Thermocole and kite paper design...or more better...1 mm depron....like this person has done http://www.youtube.com/user/tyoukogatalabo

just realized that i have to make a lot of improvements...but got excited when i came up with this vibrator motor idea!!
thanks...
kartik

Dear karthik,

I am sure with the kind of "expert building expertice " you have, using 1 mm depron scavenged from Biofoam plates you can very easily fabricate a model less than 2 - 3 gms which with electronics will not cross 4-5 gms AUW. You can also fabricate very slow flying model using other very light materials like tissue paper streched over thin balsa ribs across rolled tissue paper tube or thermocol stick.

But I think you might like to review your experience with button cells. Since I have come across button cells 3.2 V which are just about 1.5 gms which can power a 7mm brushed motor for 15 - 20 mins.

If you restrict your model AUW to less than 5 gms then with 4mm brushed motor and a button cell you can have a decent free flight for 5 - 10 mins if the model's wing surface are properly trimed flying in zero wind gusts before it hits any thing. it can be made to go around in circles in a free flight.

I hope the motor is not fried in the process of removing the excentric weight using gas torch. Another of my apprehension is that wether the motor is coreless or with core? Since motor with iron core consumes more power though has more torque

i cant figure out about the core thingy...nor my dad can...cause the motor is only about 12 mm in length and 3 mm in diameter.

the gas lighter did not damage the motor...cause its working fine...

thank you sooo much sunderam....i will definietly try making a plane under 5 gms...using biofoam plates...and thermocole...a slow flying one....will up the photos once ready....thanks again..for all the different kinds of tips!!

I can understand, The core is surely difficult to make out without striping the motor. You can get some idea by the weight however you would need confirmed samples to compare. I will weigh and give you wt of 4mm 12 mm long motor for comparission if possible.

please go through my thread posted at for some ideas

http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/indoor-micro-flying-under-20-gms-diy-projects/msg12250/#msg12250

all the very best for success of your project.

This is a simple plane...weighing just over 5 gms...
i used the biofoam sheet to make the fuselage...and the thin thermocole plates to make wings tailplane and rudder...

now as sunderam has described..to make a free flight model first...then go into the more advance part... :salute:

i would like to know a few things...
1. what motor i should use.
2. finding a lithium button cell is very difficult in local markets...so what if i use three normal button cells to power the motor...like use and throw type...
3. main thing....the plastic prop which i made was useless....cause it was very uneven... :banghead:...any alternative! !


another thing i just wanted to share...i saw a rc micro heli...in a mall...which had a similar motor like my cell phone vibrator...

the heli had huge blades compared to the model...but even at half the throttel...it was hovering...will this motor be enough to make my plane fly for free flight...if i use the same blades but just cut it to my required size...? :headscratch:

Dear karthik,

Judging by your hand which is visible in the baground of your photograph, if I am not wrong I think your plane's wing span must be about 5 - 6 inches.

If you have come across the small heli with conventional single rotor and a stabilising tail rotor flown using a IR remote (Not the coaxial twin rotor type), then the motor which is there in the tail rotor along with the tail rotor propeller is the appt power system for your project. However the propeller in tail rotor is usually a pusher so take care of the orientation of the prop and direction of rotation by appropriate polarity.

If you are able to get hold of a crashed /damaged heli then you may be able to take out the tail rotor along with the propeller. Further there will be small 30 mah 3.7 V LIPO also inside along with the circuit which you can use for your project as the battery. The Motor of the main rotor will be a 6mm motor which will be heavy for your wing span of 6 inches however will be appt power system for a 10 inches wing span.

I am presently working on a similar project with a crashed heli using both channel of circuit to power a twin pusher propeller 2510 and motors of 6mm. Plane is without any control surfaces and turning control by differential speed control between the two motors and elevation control by simultaneous speed control of both the motors. I will post details when finished.

woooosssshhhhhh!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Thanks...
my wing span from tip to tip...is around 12 inches...and i am really happy to here that the single rotor heli can be used to power my plane!!...

Hi Splitz

Here is a link for you where you can get these small motors for Rs/- 125...and the good news is that they have some freeday sale on feb 6th..orders worth 500 are free..they will only charge for shipping...so check it out

http://robosoftsystems.co.in/roboshop/index.php/solar-robotics/components/coreless-motor.html

search for freeday sale on their website

Regards

 :salute: :salute: :salute:
Thank you very much for the link!!.....i like this site soo much...
first of all...it does not require online transaction....cause i dont have a credit/debit card..well sure my sister has...i will pamper her to buy for mee!! :giggle:

Thanks soo much...i will place the order in the next couple of days!

This site is so cool as the 7mm coreless motor which is available from Plantraco for Rs 250/- Plus is available for only Rs 125/- very cool !!!!!!!. leave alone the hassels of buying from international seller, customs and and international courier.

I have already ordered 10 motors from the same site including other accessories.

Thanks Ankurkaul17

I am glad the link was useful to you guys...i guess we will now see some micro flight videos soon  ;)

Amazing indoor plane just 0.88 gms using cellphone vibrator motor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWN3IswFkDg&feature=rec-r2-2f-6-HM

amazing....
i cant stop imagining....how many hours of efforts and how many years of experience must have gone in to produce this feather!!...

hello all....after days of searching for a suitable motor and battery....i finally found those....

ok...i created a simple plane...and one bi plane...both fly amazingly ..when there is almost no wind condition...

loads of testing...and altering battery position to maintain CG...resulted in a leveled flight...wherein i had to go running behind the plane to sop it from banging on to the wall!!!  :banghead:  :giggle:
...
thanks to all your help and guidance...
i will try and post the video soon...will have to catch hold of a friend who has camera in cell phone...!! :giggle:

battery is from the china made heli...
its 70mah....since i screwed up on the heli circuit...i am currently charging using my cell phone charger..i had to sacrifice that too :(..it lasts for 10 min approx...after i charge for half an hour...

the motor on biplane is a bigger one...than the one on the simple plane...

What motor n prop did u use ?

motor and prop both are from the china made small rc heli....the bigger motor was for the main overhead rotor...and small one was tail rotor...and the prop are of the tail rotor...they provide you with an extra prop for the tail rotor...

Great work  :thumbsup:  Would love to see a video.

If you are planning to continue with this type of builds, the $1.99 batteries mentioned in the post below should work well.

http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/what-rc-activity-did-you-do-this-week/msg8504/#msg8504

Cool man.
How much did u spent to screw up the heli ?

Why dont u trim the plane to
fly in a circle. That way u dont hav to run after it to stop it from banging into the wall.

@ anwar...the video will be up as soon as i get hold of a camera!!...i saw those batteries earlier in sm other post i dont remember...and i was thinking of buying two of them...including the charger and holder...will get back to it later...

@ Anjan...the heli was bought by my friend from thailand...when he was on a tour...i just remembered that heli..and thought its components can make my planes fly!...i cheched the same helis rate here in mumbai...it cost around 700 to 1000 rs.! about the trimming...i will try that...i only get time during the night..cause...day time is all windy here...and i have no place like a huge auditorium or smthing indoor...so i have to go to my playground..i will def do trimming..to fly in circles...hope to give you a positive reply about it later!

Dear kartik,

That is a real cool build  {:)} {:)} {:)} :thumbsup:.  really inpressed with your work. I am sure with your building expertice in micro RC you will be able to very easily build a cool micro RC planes with right electronics.


I bought few motors from the site and they are too good 7mm coreless motors with 1 mm shaft 12 mm long for Rs 125/- each only, which can be used for your projects. Further there are some solar key chain LED light being sold in ebay for about Rs 99/- which is also having a small solar pannel and lithium chargeble CR2032 cells 3.2V which is about 4 gms which is also very good for such projects. Mr Sai is also selling a power pack GWS 05 motor with two 2508/2510 propellers for rs 400/- which is also very good for your projects.

CR2032 Lithium Battery is also available for bios battery of computers without connectors which is for about Rs 25 Max, I am not sure that the same are chargeble however can be used if chargeble if you have soldering expertice.

i earlier checked the link of robosoft...the motors are really cheap...i will def order sm from there......the solar LED thingy is best for such projects...will study about it in detail...

the current battery i have is a little heavy...it makes my light planes fly fast ...they fly slowly without the batt and motor when just chucked...will have to buy sm light equipments!!

since i screwed up on the heli circuit...m currently charging my batt by soldering the two wire ends of my cell phone charger (output 5.7V 800 mA)to the resp + and - ends of battery.....after half an hour...it gets a little warm..thats the time i remove it from charging.

i have not experimented with CR2032....will do that..soon!!...but i think it must be low current battery...since its used on the motherboard...basically to maintain system clock....but i will still try!

Thank you all very much for all the links and tips!!

some links of 4mm vibra motors
link 1 (http://www.surplustraders.net/specialist.php?specialist=ted&stock_no=MF918&cat_no=0185S&title=TINY%20.16%22%20DIA%20VIBRATOR%20MOTOR%20OPERATES%20ON%20FROM%201%20TO%205VDC&desc=Brand%20new.%20Made%20for%20Nokia%20cell%20phones.%20This%20tiny%20pager%20motor%20has%20a%20removable%20white%20rubber%20boot.%20Size%3B%20Only%200.16%22Dia.%20x%200.45%22L%20(excluding%200.10%22%20long%20shaft)%20Operates%20from%201VDC%20to%205VDC.%20Approximately%2018%20ohms%20resistance.&stock_qty=130&img_name=mf918.gif&img_width=250&img_height=241&img_alt=VIBRATOR%20MOTOR)
link 2 (http://www.surplustraders.net/specialist.php?specialist=ted&stock_no=MF820&cat_no=0185S&title=TINY%20VIBRATOR%20MOTOR%20ONLY%204MM%20IN%20DIAMETER!&desc=This%20tiny%20motor%20has%20an%20offset%20weighted%20shaft,%20designed%20as%20vibrator%20for%20cellphone%20or%20pager%20applications.%201.5%20-%204.5VDC%20operation.%205%20x%206%20mm%20rubber%20casing%20covers%20motor%20and%20is%20easily%20removable.%20Small%20size%20with%20casing%20removed%3A%204mm%20diameter%20x%208mm%20long.%20Gold-plated,%20surface-mount%20terminals%20can%20be%20soldered.&stock_qty=8&img_name=mf820.gif&img_width=250&img_height=153&img_alt=VIBRATOR%20MOTOR)
note that above links are not the same
http://vibratormotor.com/vib/4kh1-03wb.html
http://www.vibratormotor.com/vib/z4kh3b0030181.html
http://vibratormotor.com/vib/z4kl2b0030191.html
http://vibratormotor.com/vib/4kl-0354b.html
http://vibratormotor.com/vib/z4sl2b0280131.html

I never imagined that the hobby I had was so popular before I cam to this site!!!

Splitz - I have been through exactly the same route that you are currently on! from all that i have read you have made considerable progress on the basic elements of RC flying. As suggested by someone, first the free flight (just chuck), then the powered flight (with motor, prop and battery only) and then RC - thats the only way to get there with the small planes. Considering your motor size and wingspan and with no offence to whoever has made the recommendation - dont waste your time with the CR 2032. that will never fly your plane simply because of the weight. A 2032 (or two of them coupled) maybe good for a 15-16 inch wingspan with a 4 odd inch width, not for yours.

Your choice of the china make mini heli is bang on the mark. Those models have everything you possibly need. Theres one specific model that will be a great help. It comes with two main motors driving two rotors in opposite directions and one tail rotor (the best way to identify is to look at the tail rotor, it will be pointed upwards and not sidewards for these helis and you can see the two main motors). This heli will have three motors in all and the right circuit which you can use the differential on a biplane to turn. The props from the mini heli do the job more often than not, but at the same time if your are looking at improved performance and you are patient enough, carve our a prop out of a 2mm or 4mm balsa sheet(for the biplane the tail props will be good enough). the battery in the china heli is not more than 1.7 odd grams and the main motor is of similar weight. You can use 1mm balsa for the plane too. Incase you need even smaller battaries (and since you are in Mumbai) you can visit Lamington road and in the lane opposite Ayodhya hotel theres a navjivan battery store(its a typical "baakda" on the road, the aarey milk stall type). They have 30-50 mah lipos that weigh around a gram and will cost you Rs. 150 :). Superb for your stuff. The best source of the motor is the link provided in this post. And yes, the china helis are now on eBay.in for as less as rs. 500 and you can also visit crawford market (specifically behind manish market, near CST station) and buy these china helis for as less as Rs. 400 complete. Incase you decide to use button cells, anything more than a g1 will be a load and g1s will drain faster than you can wink!!

You may also like to consider using the tail motors from the mini heli as your main motors. They are powerful and lightweight. Your total weight for the equipment (if you want to make a 6 inch wingspan fly) should be :

Lipo - 3.7, 30-50            -     1.5 gms
Main motor (simple plane)  -    1.7 gms
Motors (each, bi plane)     -    .8 gm
Prop (single)                   -     2 inch, .5 gms
Props (Bi)                       -     1.2 - 1.4 - .6 gms (the heli tail rotor)
Rx                                 -     1.3 gms (from the heli again)
Plane                             -      Balsa frame with kite/tissue paper - 1.6 - 2 gms.

And you will have the total weight at around 7 odd grams.

Finally, for the bi - plane the prop and go directly on the motor, but for the single motor plane you might want to consider a gear ratio (you can use the gear from the china heli too) to increase thrust. Hope this was helpful.

Andy

That is a very very good idea!!!
I have a suggestion (experts pls comment) - if you use 2 motors; one to the left and one to the right, then you can increase AUW also and eliminate rudder and ailerons by using differential control, i.e. lower rpm of left motor to turn left and vice versa...
Also the motors that you used are called are pager motors. They widely available; so you can buy more motors for future models...

If you know a good cellphone repairing shop, the vibrator motors can be had for as little as Rs. 20/-. Getting the eccentric weights off is a little tricky, but it can be done. I completely agree with Gaurav about differential control. I have used the same technique on a bigger Chinese Glider, it HAS to work on a smaller model.

Oh yes the differntial does well for a beginer in terms of doing away with the airleon and rudder. THe only flipside is the actual response using differential. Also, personally I have had a hard time finding a small enough rx with this function :(

AHH..great efforts..friends..thanks for the ideas...

your idea just inspired me :D now planning to buy an old Nokia phone (https://thedealsguru.com/blog/top-selling-nokia-refurbished-mobiles) from a refurbishing mobile store, will Nokia 1110 vibrator and battery work to make small aircraft?