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« on: July 27, 2010, 10:49:32 AM »
CrazyPilot
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Hello, I have setup Towerpro 2409-12T BL out runner motor with 25Amp ESC with 3S 1300Mah 15c lipo in my little cessna.  I have done some flights on it also and it worked fine. Yesterday after putting a new X mount the motor refused to start. only thumping. I tried changing from Tx Rx motor esc but no joy. this morning i tried again and motor is starting up properly but new problem is there. Everything like motor esc & mount is heating up even on idle running. Earlier this motor & esc used to stay cool even after 8-10 min flying. I cant figure out the problem. Kindly help.
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 12:19:04 PM »
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I just want to know if it is normal because I didnt notice it before.
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 01:04:12 PM »
vinay
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Try adding a drop of thin machine oil on the bearings. This happened to me on a new motor, but in my case ESC was not getting hot. I added 1/2 a drop of triflo and the problem solved. Dont add too much of oil, just 1/2 or 1 drop should do.

Adding too much oil will remove all the grease from the bearings and make the bearing more vulnerable (a lesson learnt hard way.).
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 01:50:52 PM »
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Try adding a drop of thin machine oil on the bearings. This happened to me on a new motor, but in my case ESC was not getting hot. I added 1/2 a drop of triflo and the problem solved. Dont add too much of oil, just 1/2 or 1 drop should do.

Adding too much oil will remove all the grease from the bearings and make the bearing more vulnerable (a lesson learnt hard way.).

Thx for the reply. Where to get the machine oil? also I read somewhere BL motors dont need lubing cause there is no friction. I am new to electric so kindly enlighten me.
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 02:25:44 PM »
vinay
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The bearings still occasionally need oil, for example, scorpion motor manufacturers still recommend using oil once in 10 to 15 flights.

Also see if any magnets have come off or by chance by mistake if you have set the ESC motor timing to High. Timing should be low for most of the small motors. Search this forum, there is a thread for where to get this oil. I got the famous triflo from helidirect. But that good oil may not be necessary for your use.
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 02:42:40 PM »
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Dear Vinay Sir, I put on a new motor and the result is same. This motor is new and never been used. So i dont think putting oil will help me. Also what about esc getting hot? I would like to fly this sunday so i cant order oil etc online. I need a solution which will get my plane ready this saturday.
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 03:18:00 PM »
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Some of the things that I can think of

1) Try using a different esc.
2) Out runner motors do get hot, does the motor get very hot or its warm ?
3) What prop are you using ? 
4) Try using a different battery.

Hope this helps..Do let us know what happens..
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 04:23:26 PM »
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Some of the things that I can think of

1) Try using a different esc.
2) Out runner motors do get hot, does the motor get very hot or its warm ?
3) What prop are you using ? 
4) Try using a different battery.

Hope this helps..Do let us know what happens..

Already tried diff ESCs
I ran motor on 10-30% throttle and it gets considerably hot. Earlier it stayed cool. even the new motor is getting hot.
running it without prop.
i have tried diff batteries.
even the Tx & Rx changed but same result.
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 04:30:59 PM »
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No need to call me Sir for God's sake.

Since changing the ESC and motor combination are causing problem, I cant think of anything better as I am also new to this hobby.

Then it means that both the motor and ESC are gone bad, since changing the ESC and motor alternatively are causing problems. The only thing I can think of is the timing set on the ESC. Hope its low.

BTW which ESC?
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 04:40:16 PM »
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Try old motor new ESC = see which one is getting hot
Try new motor old ESC = see which one is getting hot
Try new motor new ESC = See even if any of this is getting hot.

Also make sure your new motor for testing is 3S compatible. Else your test results are wrong.

Check the timings on both the ESCs. Keep them low.

Also as I said earlier, my new motor required oil on the first run itself. it was getting so hot on 50% throttle for 1 minute w/o prop that I was barely able to touch it (probably unlubed bearings). But I dont think its required in your case.
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2010, 05:15:19 PM »
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When you put the new motor mount, did you by chance cut or chafe any wires ?  If any of the wires are now smaller than what it required to deliver the current needed, things will start getting heated up.  Closely inspect the wires for any knicks and cuts.
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2010, 05:30:22 PM »
vinay
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When you put the new motor mount, did you by chance cut or chafe any wires ?  If any of the wires are now smaller than what it required to deliver the current needed, things will start getting heated up.  Closely inspect the wires for any knicks and cuts.

he says he tried diff motor and ESC as well, dunno what is going on  Head Scratching

BTW, how does cutting/slimming wires heat up motor? explanation if any?

Another thing I can think of is if the rear end of the motor shaft is rubbing the motor mount. Ususally a hole is required there. Also I have similar motor which heats up moderately when run at 3S 80% throttle for 1 min w/o load.
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2010, 09:31:25 PM »
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I think your motor and esc sutaible to 2s\7.4v lipo. You are useing 3s\11.1v lipo so motor and esc get heat.
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2010, 10:02:57 PM »
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When you put the new motor mount, did you by chance cut or chafe any wires ?  If any of the wires are now smaller than what it required to deliver the current needed, things will start getting heated up.  Closely inspect the wires for any knicks and cuts.

Nicks and cuts usually affect only the insulation. And any significant reduction of the effective wire diameter (caused by a major cut) would cause the WIRES to heat, due to increased resistance. Would not affect the ESC .and/or motor. Overheating is overload  of some sort. Wattage/current is beyond ratings somewhere.
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2010, 12:09:54 AM »
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Every piece has been changed, per various posts.  Other than Vinay's new suggestion of the motor movement being restricted by the new mount, we have to look for reasons where the power rating of the setup is degraded. You are right in that the wires would be the first thing that would get hot, but is that the only effect of a wire being significantly cut or squished ?  I thought the effect would be similar to cold solder joints.

I guess the simple thing is to try running the motor with it being mounted, and see if it gets hot.

Running motors without any load (prop) for long periods is not recommended anyways, so the issue Vinay reported of motor getting hot after 1 minute in no-load condition is not too surprising.
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2010, 07:31:01 AM »
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Running motors without any load (prop) for long periods is not recommended anyways, so the issue Vinay reported of motor getting hot after 1 minute in no-load condition is not too surprising.

Its true for engines and not for electric motors. RPMs at 80% throttle no load is equivalent to RPMs at load at 100% throttle. Should not be a problem there.
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2010, 09:02:28 AM »
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That is not what I have seen in manufacturer instructions.  A quick search lead me to this manual (you can find others) :

http://www.teamnovak.com/download/instructions/pdfs/55-3400-1_r8_motor_10-08.pdf  (see the caution box which says "Never free rev the motor").
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2010, 09:07:51 AM »
vinay
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Generally, nothing may happen. An engine at no load goes into high speed, due to physically moving part like crank shaft etc may lock up. I see no such issues with motor generally, neither do they consume more current.

The only place where the motor was heating up in my case the 2409(whatever) was at the base of the motor where the bearing is mounted. Another issue with non lubed bearing may be.  Head Scratching  I haven't touched that motor since months now.

Let me find more answers on the net by then  Head Scratching
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2010, 11:51:39 AM »
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vinays observation looks very logical to me. Check if the motor after fixing on the mount is giving any extra friction. This can be checked by removing the motor from the mount and checking it by rotating it freely, putting the prop. obesrving, and repaeting the test after mounting the motor on the mount.
Always a watt meter will tell you how much current it is drawing. Check the no load current draw and it will reveal many things.

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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2010, 03:07:03 PM »
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No need to call me Sir for God's sake.

Since changing the ESC and motor combination are causing problem, I cant think of anything better as I am also new to this hobby.

Then it means that both the motor and ESC are gone bad, since changing the ESC and motor alternatively are causing problems. The only thing I can think of is the timing set on the ESC. Hope its low.

BTW which ESC?


Try old motor new ESC = see which one is getting hot
Try new motor old ESC = see which one is getting hot
Try new motor new ESC = See even if any of this is getting hot.

Also make sure your new motor for testing is 3S compatible. Else your test results are wrong.

Check the timings on both the ESCs. Keep them low.

Also as I said earlier, my new motor required oil on the first run itself. it was getting so hot on 50% throttle for 1 minute w/o prop that I was barely able to touch it (probably unlubed bearings). But I dont think its required in your case.

Towerpro Esc 25Amp. I bought combo with 2409 motor. have tried all possible setups u mentioned. Timing is set low. sorry for late reply.
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2010, 03:10:23 PM »
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When you put the new motor mount, did you by chance cut or chafe any wires ?  If any of the wires are now smaller than what it required to deliver the current needed, things will start getting heated up.  Closely inspect the wires for any knicks and cuts.

This plane crashed on last flight because of the mount only. i was using a stick mount and the motor came out of mount in air. my plane was in pieces. i have repaired it and put a new X mount which is more strong and suitable. yes Sir the wires are cut from 2/3 places because of the crash. But i also tried with a new motor and esc as mentioned in earlier posts. sorry for late reply
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2010, 03:12:12 PM »
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I think your motor and esc sutaible to 2s\7.4v lipo. You are useing 3s\11.1v lipo so motor and esc get heat.


This motor is made for 2S to 3S lipo. Esc is 25 Amp and i am using 1300 mah 20C 3S lipo.
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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2010, 03:16:36 PM »
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Every piece has been changed, per various posts.  Other than Vinay's new suggestion of the motor movement being restricted by the new mount, we have to look for reasons where the power rating of the setup is degraded. You are right in that the wires would be the first thing that would get hot, but is that the only effect of a wire being significantly cut or squished ?  I thought the effect would be similar to cold solder joints.

I guess the simple thing is to try running the motor with it being mounted, and see if it gets hot.

Running motors without any load (prop) for long periods is not recommended anyways, so the issue Vinay reported of motor getting hot after 1 minute in no-load condition is not too surprising.

i tried running it without the mount and its not getting hot upto 30% throttle. also there were some loose solder joints. i will solder them properly and then check it. will reply back tonite when its done. hope this will solve the problem. Thx
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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2010, 03:19:09 PM »
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vinays observation looks very logical to me. Check if the motor after fixing on the mount is giving any extra friction. This can be checked by removing the motor from the mount and checking it by rotating it freely, putting the prop. obesrving, and repaeting the test after mounting the motor on the mount.
Always a watt meter will tell you how much current it is drawing. Check the no load current draw and it will reveal many things.



I ran the motor without mount and it seems fine now. but to be sure kindly wait till my next post when i am done soldering. As i am new to electric, i will also purchase a watt meter. hope its not a big investment.
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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 03:21:46 PM »
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If without mount it is running fine, then the mount is the issue... it must be restricting the free rotation of the some part of the motor.  Please check for that first, before trying to do and re-soldering.
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