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« on: October 07, 2010, 04:12:05 PM »
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Came across this while surfing RCG. Any one knows of any real world application for this version of four stroke engine?

http://www.new4stroke.com/
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 08:25:34 PM by flyingboxcar » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2010, 07:09:41 PM »
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So what exactly is different about this engine... for the less inclined (or technically challenged) ? Wink
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 08:30:42 PM »
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To begin with, no valve train hence low maint, no constant adjustment of valve clearance required. The engine is able to burn greater fuel charge, RPM is no longer dependent on valve train, and the engine could be designed as single block
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 09:27:57 PM »
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I am sure we will hear more on this from Izmile
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 09:14:57 AM »
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doesn't look efficient.. more surface, more losses!
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 12:24:18 PM »
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What kind of losses are you referring to?
More surface yes, but count that against the number of moving parts, timings of cam gears, wear and tear of all the extra moving parts and the odds would stack against the conventional 4T
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2010, 12:41:23 PM »
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friction & heat.
Also in the power stroke, part of the punch is feed to the valve cylinders. It may be justified by the power required to derive the valve train. But it just doesn't seem convincing.
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 04:50:52 PM »
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On a first look, I do feel that Sun is right about the punch fed to the valves. However, if you pay close attention you would clearly understand the beauty of it.

Look at the point where the combustion occurs. At that time the top valve cam shaft and the top pistons are locked against each other. So, not much of the punch is deliverd to the top cam shaft.

Further there is a reason for different size of the valve pistons. Again, looking after the combustion point the top large piston continues to go down compensating for loss due to the top small piston being pushed up. So, I think this engine should work.

The engine is quite complex that it requires the pistions to be positioned accurately before the engine is started. So, I think the valve cam shaft and the main cam shaft should be linked by some way or other. May be that is the reason for the drive chains you see in the prototype.

In my view, I second SunlikeStar. He is right about the wear-and-tear part. This engine has too many moving parts that operate on high stress regions of the engine. Further drive chains are a big PIA for high speed engines... So, I guess this engine may not be suitable for aircrafts or cars... May be worth to drive a mill or something slower.

In any case, the inventor deserves an applause.. Clap Clap Clap

-Ismail
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 05:17:57 PM »
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Izmile, count them, you would find the number of joints and moving parts lesser than a conventional four stroke, and one of the biggest advantage of this design is that it can be manufactured as a mono block, makes for a much tougher and economical to manufacture design
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 08:54:26 PM »
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Izmile, count them, you would find the number of joints and moving parts lesser than a conventional four stroke, and one of the biggest advantage of this design is that it can be manufactured as a mono block, makes for a much tougher and economical to manufacture design

True. It may be economical to manufacture. But then you need to have bearings for the top cam shaft too.. which may offset the cost equations.

Couple of things:

1, The valve pistons are locked at the power stroke. So, obviously the connecting rods are taking a heavy punch from the power stroke. There is a possiblity of metal fatigue here. Even in conventional four storkes the valves are one of the weakest link.

2, Use of drive chain/belt is usually frowned up on for obvious reasons... If the drive chain/belt its for other accesories like oil pump or dynamo then its fine.. but this design entirely rests on it.

I am sure the inventor would have thought about all these and would have a better answer for our questions..

I would love to hear this engine running though.. Is there are video of it?

-Ismail



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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 09:19:04 PM »
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No not seen any video, and have not come across any real world application as well and hence my question
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 02:18:25 PM »
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Only a movie. You can believe me that the engine is in every way perfect, and even me as a designer and artist caught in achieving the performance as much as two and a half times better ..

Here, the current version of the flathead engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flathead_engine

And here is my version, but strangely drawn ..

http://www.new4stroke.com/dolnozaworowy1.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


The wikipedia is written with the maximum degree of pairing can get a 7: 1 And this is the fundamental flaw in the solution. Therefore, this low level of compression is because the valves need to have a place in the head to be able to go in and open up. In my constructs, valves (pistons) opening up, regress to the crankcase, so the head can be completely flat, without going into the notches on the valves. With a completely flat head, the compression ratio we receive in my design, possible 27: 1 It is a circuit are adequate for spontaneous combustion - diesel engine, which takes about 18: 1 compression ratio. So you can make the First Diesel Engine in the World with flat head ....



Also will not need to divide the block and heads, because my valves (pistons) can be loaded also from the crankcase, rather than the traditional valves from the head, so when the engine submission is possible in this way, the division heads and engine block becomes redundant. You can perform when the engine entirely from one piece, except for very an emergency head gasket and bolt heads that secure critical

http://www.new4stroke.com/images7.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



http://www.new4stroke.com/dolnozaw.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



http://www.new4stroke.com/flat.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=4+stroke+engine&vid=07311832032500ca275c02e914981f45&l=3%3A40&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4540610492893571%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Diu9LosA7s8c&tit=4+Stroke+Engine&c=28&sigr=11amfobud&ct=p&pstcat=lifestyle&age=0&fr=onesearch&tt=b


So more or less look like the block of the world's first diesel ...

http://www.new4stroke.com/flatblock.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


http://www.new4stroke.com/flatblock2.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 08:53:40 PM »
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Perhaps similar optic, despite the fact that already in 1984 the second prototype has demonstrated its outstanding superiority until the day of today can know there was this engine design...

Why: yeah because from the cylinder a hindered outflow is warm to chilling ribs, and collecting carbon deposit on the rotational valve of not a fortune-teller of the long failure-free exploitation. Appropriately the great channel in the rotational valve is also making the top compression ratio impossible, and behind it good effectiveness.

It is my proposal, le unfortunately nobody still for her produces. Please treat everything only as general outlines of the road which one could go.

This my 35 year old collections of new engines: two 2,5 ccm and one 5 ccm
http://www.new4stroke.com/collection.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


and my flathead engine or sidevalve engine (flatty)
The principle of operation and the advantages and disadvantages of the "old" solutions

http://www.new4stroke.com/collection.jpg

Only orientation schematics
http://www.new4stroke.com/dolnozaworowy1.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


Are unfortunatelly drawing - need 3D Drawig- first engine whos impossible drawig in 2D right.

And my vision this engine made orginal part other engines.

Two crankshaft in timing are work exellent.! ( my first prototype)

http://www.new4stroke.com/flatty.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



In this Excell work , are possible changes all colour pole value.

http://www.new4stroke.com/volume.zip  piston possitions

With basic information, maybe someone will do RC prototype ?
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« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2013, 03:16:42 PM »
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Well after that our mourning have something on the front ..
No. So designing a good amplifier that amplifies much is not simple and easy ..
Here, it's about the type amplifier wind instruments. On this page, the instruments are charts that say the sound intensity can vary over a range frequencies with as much as 6 dB.,. This large difference is due to raw material from which it is made ??instrument, with the same shape.

http://www.acoustics.org/press/133rd/2amu4.html

If we want to get a change of size (volume) using a classic amplifier-loudspeaker system is to get the 6 dB of sound, we need to use as much as 4 times greater electrical power, not, for example, 50 watt, well, up to 200 watts .. Up so much growth in sound, as it turns out, it gives us the right material for the trumpet ..

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/152/SPL.html#SECTION00037300000000000000

http://www.globalrph.com/master_speaker.htm

Yes, we can easily lose with this energy gain, as we will use the wrong material ....

Now the one of the simplest experiments of physics ..
It is a "kitchen an experiment." We take two tablespoons can be of tea or soup. Take them by their ends and bringing together bellies ... Between tummy wpuszczmy very small stream of water. I bet that you will not be able to maintain a 2 mm gap between them ...
We can also repeat the experiment horizontally, so that the speed of the fluid force is created ..

http://www.new4stroke.com/spoons.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2013, 03:17:26 PM »
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Well, finally, after a year, I received a cut down water, the elements of Plexiglas to model "Halfrotate Engine 1000 cc volume" ....
He is set to keep on hand, has 100ccm cylinder capacity .. 4 x 25.4 cm ^ 2 surface and 1 cm thick ..

to 1000 ccm this height h = 10 cm ..
to 3000 ccm this height h = 30 cm .......
First impressions: the piston surprisingly easy to change direction when moving your fingers inside the "barrel" .. I think very highly rotary engines will also be
possible to build ..

http://www.new4stroke.com/100ccm.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



http://www.new4stroke.com/wszystkie.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?




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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 03:18:14 PM »
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For this size Windmill Red Baron, surely the need for such an actuator driving a generator .. You know that place slot, achieved speed by air is three times greater than the wind blowing from the face of this wing?

http://www.new4stroke.com/beton%20zebro.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


http://www.new4stroke.com/Aerzen_Machines_Ltd_GQ_GR_positive_displacement_process_gas_blowers_6.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



http://www.new4stroke.com/speed%20zebro.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


A new family of wing profiles with slot .. NACA FELIKS

http://www.new4stroke.com/twoprofile.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?





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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 02:31:04 AM »
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That can see that the engine of V 8, even a model can not btc made ​​entirely of plastic ... cylinders are lined with sheet metal, because the friction of the plastic can lead to heat and rub .. My model of the engine, will not have such defects, and only at these two bearings 6704z will all reaction postponed



http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mBfYYrv03uyxtZw9yIziyQw.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


Here something similar .. My model will be presented Stephenson Second engine





My model will run on compressed air...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/American_compressed_air_locomotive_used_in_boring_the_Rove_Tunnel_Scientific_American_1916-11-25.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 02:32:17 AM »
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Here, a model project of The Spoon Red Baron Tractor. Human powered Dedalus, a comprehensive Weight about 100 Kg. It has been proved that, at a power of 0.3 Kw can take place before long flights .. Here my project model can be 100 times lighter, or to his same drive just 300 watts / 100 = 3 watts .. I think that such a model will be able to produce up more, so I called him a Tractor, he can still pull a glider behind him ..

http://www.new4stroke.com/tractor.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?




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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2014, 02:33:31 AM »
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With time on holidays, this Yoda even sent a picture from NASA Simulator, explaining many things ...
Oh yes you can see that the lift force (lift) is three times greater than the resistance (drag) the wings .... The diagram shows that the velocity profile at 25% is almost 3 times higher on average .. The purple line on the graph .. The green line is the wind speed .. Yellow is the speed of the lower side profile .. Wind speed is 15 km / h ... At the start of a profile is almost 50 km / h ... Such profiles should have the Red Baron Windmill (spoon too) ..

http://www.new4stroke.com/velocity%20meter.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


http://www.new4stroke.com/velair.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


If the speed is increased by three times, then by using dual such a system, we can get about 9 times Increased speeds the wind that blows on the system .. it is worthwhile to do so .. Well of course, because in the formula for Velocity windmill power plays up to the third power, it is possible to obtain power .. no examples listed here .. for 5 m / s .. Windmill with a diameter of 100 meters are 2,000 KW us .. Now if we take a larger representation rate 9 times that or 45 m / s, it is already at 10 meters in diameter windmill get 2,300 KW. ie the same windmill is ten times smaller .. the rest of the structure is virtually immobile and will not be higher than 50 meters .. as follows from theoretical calculations.'s say the length of the building is 100 m, which can fit 10 windmills in it .. theoretically get 23 MW at a wind speed of 5 m / s.
But of course we can use the Windmill Red Baron ..

http://www.new4stroke.com/podwojne.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?



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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2014, 02:34:18 AM »
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If you do not believe my calculations, it can send a check to the CERN ..:rolleyes:

http://www.new4stroke.com/bicycley.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2014, 02:36:49 AM »
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So on your way I think, why this project Manchattan taken a Pole, who only since the outbreak of war in 1939 was in England .. After all, his English was not too good for sure .. British citizenship also quickly got something to this project could attend ... ... But I know war, accelerates various activities ... But the English did not really even war .. Therefore I am full of admiration .. as a sincere desire ..
Here in the video you can see, the then fairly good the English had ..
Each fought as best he could to make this world a better place .. Sometimes it was not easy ..

http://www.nfb.ca/film/strangest_dream

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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 02:37:33 AM »
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In the new year, new designs ..
Air bike, designed in a similar way Hunting N.126.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_H.126


http://www.new4stroke.com/aairbicycle.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


http://www.new4stroke.com/text%20bicycle.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1775321&page=6

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21146__Alloy_DPS_2_Series_120mm_EDF_unit_with_4_Pole_980kv_Motor_5000watt_12s_.html

http://www.bavariandemon.com/en/products/cortex/

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1775321&page=6

It is the lightest machine to move in the air, which is designed ..

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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2014, 12:59:31 PM »
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Hey feliks why dont you start a new thread with all this info? And design a generator wing that can power up RC planes and let them fly for a long time? Wink
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2014, 01:46:47 AM »
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Here drawings like two wings facing each other bellies they give huge wind acceleration and negative pressure which we introduce inside the wings. If the wings will be mounted permanently, with sufficient clearance between them, and may be greater plenty of slots, a big part of the lift force will turn on underpressure which will be inside the wings could create a fairly low pressure and large its quantitative yield .. If so it will already know how to use a vacuum with a good efficiency, for example by the vane pump is running, vacuum-as a motor ... the motor can drive the generators or.... propeller ...

http://www.new4stroke.com/9V.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 01:48:21 AM »
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And now the strangest thing .. On the screen shots from the simulator to the airfoil published by NASA, pointed red frame so strange two values that can be set on the simulator .. Namely, in terms of drag and lift. and would not have believed in their value, if not the simulator, which included such a serious company like NASA .. In the first image you can see that the drag is set to 21 Newton.Lift has until 244 Newton .... So for the help of a smaller force is a much more powerful .. Something with anything ... this force is with 11.6 times greater than the resistance (drag).

In the second figure also drag is 12 Newtons, and lift 191 Newtons .. ie with 15.9 times greater ..
I think that these simulations are accurate ..
Now, if even half of the value obtained for lift holding strength to produce the drug's effects, it would lift force will be very high ... So we use 85 Newtons of lift to overcome the resistance (drag) 12 Newtons. that is enough for us to capture power efficiency, and conversion to drag about 14%. (eg rotary vane pump + propeller). I think it is really to do with such a small sufficient efficiency .. So the system can move itself by overcoming drag and float in the air At 85 Newtons lift .. I guess that NASA is wrong ...
So says the theory .....

http://www.new4stroke.com/Nasa.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


http://www.new4stroke.com/nasa1.jpg
Any real world application for this 4 Stroke?


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