RC India
Welcome Guest, please login or register.
 
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Topic Tools Topic Tools 
Read
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2010, 11:27:15 AM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



I suppose one should rule out other, obvious, reasons, like restricted airflow, carb/idle needle setting, etc. The symptoms still seem like a rich idle mixture. Trying to combine that reasoning with the change of mounting! Head Scratching
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2010, 11:35:59 AM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !




Now you know why people like Mike (who was tinkering with engines when I was a toddler) were scratching their heads more than usual Giggle

Should I spill the beans, or we do one more round of educated guesses or diagnostics ?
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2010, 11:44:14 AM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



Just one hint!
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2010, 11:51:31 AM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



Hint ? "What change would you make to a glow setup when you mount the engine upside down ?" Giggle
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 12:06:36 PM by anwar » Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2010, 12:11:50 PM »
mail4ajo
Car Lover
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 12 
mail4ajo has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Chennai
State: Tamil Nadu
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 972
Join Date: May, 2009

Mugen Seiki Rules



Aahaa....... Let me take a wild guess, Engine upside down means fuel constantly touching the plug, right?? So it will not allow the plug to do it job?? Something on those lines? So fuel flow has to be reduced??

Was this stupid enough??? Grin
Logged

*Mugen Seiki MBX7 with Novarossi P5 engine*
*Mugen Seiki MBX6T M-Spec with Novarossi P5 engine*
*Mugen MBX6 Eco with Mamba Monster 2200kv*
*HPI Mini Recon with BL system*
*Team Losi 1/24 rally*
*Team Associated RC8 onroad GT Car, Team Orion power system coming soon...
*Hobbyking 1/18 Rally Extreme BL*
*Sanwa MT-4 radio*
Previously owned - Mugen Seiki MBX6 M-Spec, Thunder Tiger MTA4 S50, ST-1, Sparrowhawk XB, HPI BAJA 5Bss, TRAXXAS REVO 3.3
 

Read
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2010, 12:16:23 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



But the problem was with the engine in the upright position!
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2010, 12:16:59 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



That would be classified as flooded, although it is hard to achieve in practice just due to inverted engine mounting.  Remember that after the first couple of cycles of combustion, the chamber gets cleared and pretty much stays so as long as the engine is running.

In this case, the engine was mounted upright. It WAS mounted inverted for the previous few months on another plane though and was working flawlessly then.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 12:19:03 PM by anwar » Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2010, 12:20:48 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



Hint ? "What change would you make to a glow setup when you mount the engine upside down ?" Giggle

Short of - if required - turning the carb around, nothing comes to my addled mind!
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2010, 12:25:15 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



OK... let us keep this up until tomorrow morning. Others can pitch in by then.

Sushil bhai  - You are missing something obvious.  You have to run through (i.e. visualize) the process of mounting an engine inverted in your mind Wink 

And as an added hint, think about "choked air supply".
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 12:27:13 PM by anwar » Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2010, 12:32:45 PM »
sushil_anand
Plane Lover
Forum Hero
*****

Reputation Power: 17 
sushil_anand has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: MUMBAI
State: Maharashtra
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 1274
Join Date: Jul, 2009



I brought that up as "restricted air supply" !
Logged

Hangar: Zlin 50L -120, CMPro Super Chipmunk, Ultimate Bipe EP, Imagine 50, Christen Eagle 160, Ultra Stick, Super Sports Senior
 

Read
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2010, 12:37:26 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



Right, how can whether an engine is mounted inverted or upright result in restricted air supply (or "more fuel and less than required air") ?
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2010, 01:07:04 PM »
Sahevaan
Plane Lover
Forum Veteran
****

Reputation Power: 6 
Sahevaan has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: hyderabad
State: Andhra Pradesh
RC Skills: Intermediate
Posts: 414
Join Date: May, 2009



I have a OS .46 mounted inverted and at captains air field , we start it upright or side ways and throttle it up and down a few times , it works all fine . I dont think its with the mounting position of the engine .
Logged
 

Read
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2010, 01:39:28 PM »
RotorZone
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 8 
RotorZone has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 607
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RotorZone.com



What are you doing for inverted mount that we don't do  Head Scratching

I don't do anything special for inverted mount. Never had any problem.
Logged

 

Read
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2010, 06:49:50 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



I am pretty sure you all do *it*, and so does everyone else Giggle  See this is why we also struggled initially.  It happens so routinely, that we take it for granted !

Anyway, will post what we had to do tomorrow morning.
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2010, 11:41:58 AM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



The problem was the exhaust port/opening of the muffler was pointing pretty much directly to the sky ! 

When the engine was mounted inverted earlier, it was made to point pretty much directly down.  Now that the engine is again mounted upright, the exhaust pipe was pointed up, and although there was NO exhaust deflector that would have made it unusually long, it still caused oil to build up inside the muffler, causing the engine to choke.

Once the muffler post was made to point down again, idle became smooth permanently, and had no problems since.

Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2010, 12:15:11 PM »
bmanoj2
Plane Lover
Forum Veteran

****

Reputation Power: 4 
bmanoj2 has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Dubai, UAE
State: OUTSIDE INDIA
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 372
Join Date: May, 2010



Wow !!!! a simple thing but it can make you go mad at the field  Smiley Smiley Giggle
Logged

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow."
 

Read
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2010, 08:52:48 PM »
RotorZone
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 8 
RotorZone has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 607
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RotorZone.com



Here is a pic of my first nitro plane. I had the exhaust pointed to the sky including an exhaust deflector. Had over 100 flights on it before retirement without a single engine problem. Not even a dead stick ever (with the one exception of the stone getting inside the engine incident).

IMG_3688.jpg
Re: Interesting nitro engine problem and diagnosis
* IMG_3688.jpg (18.52 KB, 800x533 - viewed 532 times.)
Logged

 

Read
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2010, 10:21:27 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



It looks sideways (may be it is the angle of the camera). We could have flown for ever, with keeping the idle high enough so that the oil buildup inside the muffler would not happen (landings would be a bit tricky). The way the problem was noticed was when my brother inverted the plane inadvertently, and saw a large quantity of oil come out of the muffler.
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2010, 11:40:00 PM »
RotorZone
Forum Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 8 
RotorZone has no influence.
Offline Offline

City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 607
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RotorZone.com



It is a OS46 AX box type muffler. The exhaust is on one of the top corners, not by the side.

Could be that in your case running rich caused oil build up, chocked the exhaust further and became a vicious cycle.
Logged

 

Read
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2010, 01:41:42 AM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



Possible... but leaning the LSN did not help.

We have to also consider that the muffler is physically bigger in this case.
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Read
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2010, 04:07:47 PM »
anwar
Administrator
Forum Hero

*****

Reputation Power: 141 
anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!anwar is awe-inspiring!
Offline Offline

City: Doha (Qatar) & Thrissur
State: Kerala
RC Skills: Advanced
Posts: 11619
Join Date: Mar, 2009

RC India - Flying and racing with open minds !



It is a OS46 AX box type muffler. The exhaust is on one of the top corners, not by the side.

I was looking for these box types at the field, and noticed that due to their shape/design (they stick out from the edges), the outlet port is always at 45 degrees from the ground/horizontal.

In our case, the muffler was circular/cylindrical in shape, and it was pointing straight up.  Guess that makes enough of a difference at idle speeds.
Logged

Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.
 

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Twin nitro engine custom RC car
Cars
anwar 0 7590 Last post October 16, 2010, 08:38:10 PM
by anwar
GMS .47 MKII Nitro Engine
For Sale
jitender 9 6299 Last post March 26, 2011, 10:45:25 PM
by jitender
Nitro engine Accesories
For Sale
traxxrc1 3 3626 Last post April 05, 2011, 01:06:24 PM
by traxxrc1
Rc Plane for sale(Nitro engine)
For Sale
Amar 8 8812 Last post February 14, 2019, 04:19:16 PM
by Kantesh
want a .15 or slightly bigger nitro engine
Wanted
SORAV 8 3771 Last post March 06, 2015, 10:41:32 AM
by sahilkit