RC India

Hi Guys.... need some  :help:


I want to put a smoke system on my Edge 540 ...
Need your advise on :

1. What smoke system should I use ( where to pick it up from )
2. Will it work good ?
3. any video's of the same.... setup, test, etc. etc,,,

Thanks for your help in advance...

I remember once my friend and I used DJ smoke liquid (The lengths we went to find one in today's parlance, was sheer stupidity, for want of nomenclature, we were sent on a wild goose chase in the middle of scorching chennai heat).
I saw one available here (http://cgi.ebay.in/Kool-Fog-Juice-low-lying-fog-1-Gallon-American-DJ-/350421406075?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item5196be517b). This liquid needs to be heated that's it, one canister to a heating canister, heat switched on at will remotely, so one channel is dedicated to that, connect a Laval nozzle to the exit of the smoke, you will get a well expanded smoke. be advised last i heard it is harmful to health (All you party animals, now you know).

Of course you can use dry ice and water, it doesn't last long and you have to use it the moment you take off. It is just CO2 and H2O, so it is cool. I have never heard of anyone trying it.

Nowadays, we use off the shelf available smoke gene cartridge, used as a survival aid (So easily available) to attract attention of Rescue Helicopter. this has very little shelf life (^ months-1 year), therefore you will find it in some nearby airport (Life expired one also works well, no issues) if you have somebody in the airport you may even get it for free.

i hope this helps

On the lighter side

Aata, Corn Flour, Icing sugar were tried too, with limited success.

Extra Castor oil, rich Mixture, isn't it good enough ?.... LOL

Is there anything we can use for foam planes? Looks good while doing 3D.
May be a solid alernative

Smoke gene cartridge, easy, safe, very light, lasts really long, One big gene, which lasts for 15 minutes to attract Heli pilots attention imagine how much of stuff it'll have for a RC pilot? it's like the nitro, get a litre and you are sorted for a long time. likewise get one and you are sorted.

I agree with the looking good part, especially during the Harrier and the Tumble. Gorgeous...;D

Funny I read some time earlier that 30% heli fuel was giving better smoke than a dedicated smoke pump on a .46 engine ;D Looks like small 2 stroke nitro engine do not provide enough heat/pressure for a good smoke system.

The heating system for the DJ juice got to be batt operated (With some heating coil). will this help.? i dunno
http://www.regin.com/cart.html  8-)

Heat (or lack of), maybe. But pressure comes from the pump and not the engine.

Thanks everyone ... but from what I see the question still remains unanswered.... hmmm...

Heat definitely. Seems like there are tricks like grinding cooling fins from mufflers, and wrapping a metal tube over the engine head to pre-heat the smoke fuel before being injected into the muffler.  The location of injection seems to be critical too.

Pressure, only in the case of some crank case powered smoke systems where the smoke itself is pumped using a hole made in the crankcase.  Not a general concern in systems that use dedicated smoke pumps, as you pointed out.

So Anwar... what do you suggest what kind of a system should one buy / build ... for getting some decent smoke from a plane using a OS.46 AX

I have no experience with these, other than seeing couple of people in the field with it :(  I would suggest that you wait till you hear from more people who have hands on experience.  A quick search led me to some US forums with interesting links, I am sure which you can try also.  But then all such threads have lots of varied information, and is probably not equivalent to someone who has managed to do it locally.

Just spoke to some one locally about this.  In short, there are challenges to doing this on a 40 size 2 stroke.  You can try it with something like a TME, but it seems like you will be in for some experimentation (fuel mixes, tricks to keep higher muffler temperature etc).

Thanks Anwar... I appreciate your help..... Hope to hear more from other on this ,,,

Smoke systems by using the engine heat is recommended for models 90 size an up. 46 engine does not produce enough heat to vaporise the smoke mixture. You can try cutting the cooling fins but even then it may not be enough to get decent smoke. Further, on top of all that you are adding more weight to the model... But then its worth experimenting...

I have used Sugar and KNO3 Potassium Nitrate to make decent smoke bombs.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQEEFycml0o

I use this mix as a solid propellant for my rockets.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/demonstrationsexperiments/ss/smokebomb.htm

Coloured smoke....................

http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/a/coloredsmoke.htm

Pity that I couldn't help you on this..................maybe this will help.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qK_QjbQVA

Divay,
Even on a 50CC airplane, the smoke system is "just-right" . I think a 80-100CC is the right size airplane to properly utilize a smoke system. Consider the following :
1. Adding a smoke system will add at least 600-800 gms of weight
(400gms for motor,fuel tank, battery, electronics ) and then about 400 gms for the smoke oil.

2. .46 2 stroke doesnt produce enough heat. Unless u use .90 4 stroke or above, you will not have enough smoke.

Added weight degrades flying severly. I guess you should just enjoy flying your plane as it is. Smoke, though adds charm, is best used when flying 50CC or above gassers.

I have run Smoke systems on .91 OS FS as well as a 55CC gasser recently.
Hope that helps.
-Gaurav

Perhaps this mechanism may help.
http://www.smokemachines.net/buy-battery-powered-smoke-machine.shtml

and http://wmunderway.8m.com/cont/smoke/smoke.htm

(http://wmunderway.8m.com/cont/smoke/ssmokedrawing.JPG)

You may use homemade kerosene lamp type mechanism containing smoke fluid and heater coil in mouth, just like mosquito repellent mechanism. Use stage performing smoke (Harmless) that costs about Rs.600/- for a bottle (like 200ml). You get this liquid in Disco lighting shops.

You have to use your own coil. Use 35 watt (240mA-500mA for temperature) or 10 watt( 80-150mA)soldering Iron coil wire [cheap and easy availability). No pump is required as the Liquid will be suck by capillary action. The liquid mosquito repellent inner spindle cut piece may be used. Of course, you have to use an high current switch like MOS or BJT or simple EM micro relay contact buffer stage from Receiver for switching.

But using this make your plane weight more and the battery using timing will be less i. e. battery consumption will be more.

Your fine artwork can make a complete mechanism withen 20-25 grams (Incl a single 600mA 1S Li-Ion battery 10gm costing like Rs30-80/-, 10-15gm liquid+container [? cost], a C2233/123D/D882/S8050 Transistor max 2 gm with wire [with heat sink cut] costs Rs3-10/-)

Thanks

If you are truly inclined, you can always "cheat" using the stuff posted here :

http://www.rcindia.org/fuel-and-engines/need-help-how-to-put-a-smoke-system-on-a-plane-driven-by-a-46-ax-plane/msg41921/#msg41921

Sorry to mention that, using separate battery is better idea but you can use it's receiver battery  too.

The separate fan is not required [as shown in drawing as it is used in ship] as the prop is available being plane.

Thank you all for twisting your brains on this... but I was looking for a tried, tested and proven solution ... I guess the question is still a riddle.

Soldering Iron coils are designed for use with a 220V supply. They will not even get warm with a regular airplane battery. In addition 20-30 watts would mean a current draw 4-6 A!! Not at all feasible. Particularly with a "Rs 30-80" battery.

Please explain what "your fine artwork" means. :headscratch:

Smoke in a 46 size engine just bad idea. It has been tried tested and rejected by many the world over.
Unless you are 90 size or up, the heat is not enought to turn the smoke liquid into smoke (whatever smoke would be produced is very likey to be rapidly dissipated by the prop wash) and then there is the added danger of your plug being extinguished due to ingress of smoke fluid through exhaust

Bad ideas tend to generatre great inventions....lets keep our thinking caps on people

How about delebrately shorting a lipo battery on air.... ;D ;D.. very simple circuit and light weight too, but a bit expensive.. I bet it should generate a lot of smoke (and heat)...  ;D ;D

Wouldn't some of the regular diwali (and other festival) "Pataka"s work just about the same... and cost effective too !  One will get some "light" also as added bonus ;D

Now if someone can propose a remote ignition mechanism (other than shorting a lipo, that is :giggle: )

Oh come on Anwar... we want some hi-tech smoking stuff... ;D ;D

BTW, electronic ignitors are not that difficult to make the gud old potassium nitrate/sugar mixture properly placed on a broken 3V torch bulb should do the trick... Rocketry guys use it a lot.

my crazy idea  :P
the valve can be a servo pinching on the silicon tube :)

Engine heat is not sufficient on a .46 engine plus added weight of smoke oil/tank etc is not advised.

Guarav,
I am sure some one will come up with an idea to heat up the engine. May be something on the lines of what Izmile suggested should work   :giggle:

Anwar,
No they would not, been there done that,
It will give you sound and flash but hardy any worthwhile smoke.
In the days of yore for CL combat shows we used to fix small crackers (the ones locally called  lari like 100 wallas 500 wallas etc but on our models it use to be cut down to may be 5 or 10 ), use DT fuse and then couple of us flying together  simulate combat during displays.

Sunlike it will work.
From what I understand from your diagram is that the valve you are referring to is meant to control pressure to the smoke oil tank. There is a much cheaper solution for that. Pass the tube through a suitable id wheel collar, and adjust the pressure by turning in or out the set screw. You can add a bit of thread windings on either side of the collar and drip some glue/cyano to ensure that te collar wont move
But that would be a fixed solution and you can not switch it on or off.

However the challenge in getting your engine to smoke is not how to get the smoke oil to the engine, but how to sufficiently heat the oil for it to burn incompletely (the trick lies in getting the temp right where neither is it fully burnt nor unburnt) If this is not right all you would get is a good spray of the oil on your airframe or smoke trails like a truck :giggle:  

If any one is interested in how to smoke
please read here http://www.soldcentralfl.com/flyingpenguin/smoke.htm

Hi Divay, If u want a tried and tested solution--

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7324

Can't see how it will solve the main issue on these size engines, lack of heat ! :headscratch:  This is just a pump from a good brand.

I agree with Anwar ... the product listed by crazypilot will be good for a gasser but not for a .46 size plane....hmmm

for heat use a bigger prop like 15X8. otherwise use smaller prop like 6X4

15x8 prop or a 6x4 prop .. will only lead to the engine smoking up in fumes thereby generating smoke as well as a pile of balsa... ;)

but this is what u wanted. No need to say Thx.

hahahah ur funnypilot not crazypilot hahahah ;)

Crazy... PM me what YOU are "smoking" tonight... thinking about how to smoke an engine :giggle:  Seems like good stuff ;D

PS: Yes, old boring joke !

How about using an actuator to stick some baking soda into a bottle of vinegar?

Just joking.I guess it is really impractical.

Hope you find a solution.

1:1  kerosene and diesel will produce pure white smoke

madhavan, thats what suryakiran does with the added dye for red and green colour, but then the weight penalty?

Too late to this topic,
Still, A 1:1 mixture of Kerosene and Glycerine might work even with Lower temps. Glycerine has flash point of 160 C and it will ignite Kerosene as well, Should try it on my own.

just use some white phosphorous with the oil tank to heat the oil
white phosphorous has an  ignition  temperature of 36 c which is more than enough
:giggle: