RC India

What are the standard techniques and/or checks to be applied on a glow/nitro engine that refuses to start ?  What is the step by step diagnosis procedure to handle them ?

PS: The question was purposefully posed as "glow or nitro" engine (even though they are called one or the other interchangeably), since it would help people search using either of those words.

Let me start off with some categories of problems/issues that may cause this condition. 

1) Fuel supply related issues: Like a broken or disconnected clunk line in the tank, a carb with dust in it, lack of priming etc. 

2) Tuning and usage issues : Incorrectly setup main or low speed needles, incorrectly setup throttle servo endpoints, not enough charge in the glow ignitor etc

3) Engine health issues :  Bad glow plug, lack of compression etc.

There are many more, others may please pitch in. Each category has many issues that fall under it.  If someone can post a generic step by step procedure for diagnosis, that will be great.

In general, I have noticed that car engines tend to be a bit wild in terms of such issues.  Is that a generally true assessment ?

I have tried to summarize a list of symptoms I have seen when learning how to tune nitros. I am still learning by trial and error. If there is anything wrong in the below, please correct. This is from a beginners perspective. Experts may find this silly.

This is something I have learned after hours of reading and interacting with experts like Aravind and other chennai flyers.

If you are having issues with your nitro engines, these are the symptoms you need to look out for. These are for car engines, but guessing its same for aircraft as well

1. High speed needle - lean

Symptoms: Overheating, engine cutting out at full throttle.

2. High speed needle - rich

Symptoms: Boggy performance. lots of smoke. sluggish high speed throttle response

3. Low speed needle - rich

Symptoms: Sluggish acceleration, excessive unburned fuel spitting from the exhaust, engine cutting off when glow ignitor is removed

4. Low speed needle - lean

High idle. The vehicle will try to move while sitting still.

Always start tuning with the High Speed needle and then move to the Low speed needle. You lean the HSN, its also leans the LSN like a garden hose.

Some engines like Thunder tiger have a mix metering or change over screw. It doesnt require any change after default setting.

To set idle, I usually tune it last. I press the brakes and turn out the screw till the engine stalls, then turn it back a bit. If you engine is cutting when applying brakes, increase idle.

Please add if you have any other indicators to help tune better and faster.

Thank you Ajo.

Can someone post details on how to detect if an engine has been over-primed / flooded, and the solutions for the same. 

Simple in Cars.

Symptom:
Engine will refuse to turn over, if you have pull start, it will be very hard and refuse to move.

Solution
Remove glow plug and pump out excess fuel by turning the engine by pulling or roto start. I sometimes turn the car upside down to shake out the excess fuel.

My Method
Always carefully watch the fuel move thru the line and reach the carb while priming the engine. I have installed this cute blue primer bulb on my nitros to help prime better.

Cool gadget just for priming  :thumbsup:  And your car looks very clean ! Is it fairly new, or you take care of it meticulously  8-)

When you turn engine upside down, does the extra fuel exit via the muffler ? In other words, can fuel already in the chamber, of say a 2stroke glow engine, exit back via the carb or does it have to exit only via the muffler ?  As that would determine how you should hold the engine (like with the muffler hole of the engine pointing downward).  How about having the throttle fully open, and hold it with the carb pointing down ?

So is removing the glow plug sort of the the only sure fire fix for a flooded engine ?  Is there a way "that works most of the time" to get the extra fuel out without opening/removing the glow plug ?

Turning the engine upside down and then rocking the prop(dunno what it would be in car) back and forth ensures that the fuel is in the combustion chamber. Thereafter turn the engine to its side so that when the piston is lowered the fuel comes to exhaust outlet and then turn it in a manner that the muffler outlet is pointing down, This will help in draining out the fule. Repeat this process till the time you do not get the locked feeling and then close the needle/disconnect the fule line and start once started the engine would die out soon as it will run dry.

Another method is to backflip the engine while pointing the exhaust down and then turing the muffler outlet down does a good job of draining the excess fuel.

Procedure one works like a charm for all two and four strokes. The second one I have not tried on 4T so opinions are welcome.
But the easiest way it to take off the plug and spin the engine. But then too much of screwing in and out of parts certainly is not good as you are likely to screw up during one such procedures 

Very useful information !  :thumbsup:

If ones notices the glow engine does not start, one of the things they need to check if fuel is coming into the carb/engine.  Let us say that they noticed no fuel inflow into the engine when they turn their props with a starter.

As this point, what all should we investigate ?

Also, how does this troubleshooting work for "pumped" versus "non-pumped" engines ?

When on the first start of the day. Open the venturi completely and choke with finger while rotating the prop. One should see the fuel being sucked into the engine. (Do this with glow disconnected). If you can not reach the venturi, choke the muffler outlet while rotating the prop does the same thing. Do not over do this as this would lead to engine going rich. The moment you see fuel entering carb give one more turn and no more. Remove your finger from venturi/exhaust hole and turn over two-three times to distribute the fuel charge. Now you are ready to connect glow and flip/whirl the prop for a start.
If the fuel is not coming in to the engine check the following

1. Check that your fuel lines are connected to the engine
2. See that needle is open appropriately
3. Check if the line is connected to the tank
4. Check for any severe kinks in the line (if the kink is not severe fule may flow but the engine would starve of fuel when started and die but still suck in fuel under choke)
5. Check that you have no pin holes in the line (if you have you will see bubbles in the fule line)
6. Check for block in your pipe line
7. Check for blocks in your carb (to do this and 6 above, remove the needle out of housing, and blow in from the pressure pipe, you should see fuel gushing out of needle housing and be careful of the fuel sparying in your eyes/body do this at your own risk and no liabilities are accepted. if it does, fuel passage upto this point is clear, if not you need to investigate the block. Put the needle back open up two three turn and repeat the process and fuel should now come out of carb venturi, if it does the entire fuel passage is clear. But this will also certainly lead to your engine being flooded so you now have to remove the excess fuel.)  
8. Above all did you check that you have fuel in the tank??? >:D

9, Make sure that you have the engine muffler/exhaust open...  ;D

Usually there are 3 (some times 2) inlets/outlets to the fuel tank.  How should they be connected and if the engine is not starting because somebody connected them wrong, how to diagnose the right connections without removing the whole tank assembly ?

Ye who knowth about nitro engines, please pitch in this thread.  It would be great to see this thread become a one-stop resource for all nitro engine starting problems ! 

Ye who obviously knowth the answers to thy own questions, please answer  ;D

With a three or two line setup and tank full to the brim it is pretty difficult to tell what's wrong. As all line will suck in fuel. The pressure line will be in fuel, and so will be the fill and clunk. So the best way to check is fill half or less. You have to play the elimination game.

With two line setup here is how you go
With the plane upright and fuel tank half filled check which lines suck in fuel if out two. If both are sucking in you have the pressure tube upside down in the tank to confirm this invert the plane and check again only one should do and that is your feed line the other is pressure line.

With the three line set up here is how you do it
Same process but now two lines should draw fuel if all three do you need to take out the tank and thereafter it is easy to determine with the tank held against a bright light.

If only two do your non drawing line is the pressure line. Mark it for identification.
Now to seperate feed from fill line invert the plane and only one line should draw fuel. Which ever does is your feed line.

The same exercise can be performed with all lines disconected from engine and hanging free. Empty the tank and when you fill from pressure line fuel will flow out from feed and fill lines, but while filling from feed or fill line it will not from pressure line till the time the tank is full. So you now have pressure line identified. Invert the plane and do the same exercise and you now have the dry line as your feed line. Oh BTW while doing this exercise one of the two line free (the ones from which you are not filling) has to be blocked one by one. 

You do have to play spoil-sport, don't you  :violent:

Just play along....  :giggle:  It is good for the RC masses !

My Ki-100 had a 46FX engine which was worn out and it always used to deadstick after a couple of circuits. I then replaced the tank with a uni-flow setup and it worked fine. I was able to fly it for longer duration but then it used to deadstick again. Nevertheless, the uniflow setup has worked well.

Here is an explaination of the uniflow tank setup -> http://www.fraserker.com/heli/uniflow/how_uniflow_works.htm

Cool info on the uniflow setup  {:)}

My brother ran into a pressure problem on his first 4 stroke pumped engine. Since it was pumped, there was no feedback from the muffler into the tank. So all he had was one line to refuel (which was shut during flight), and the line that feeds the carb/engine. During flight as fuel was being sucked out, a vaccuum started forming in the tank (there is no route for air to come in), and he ran into multiple issues.  Finally, he added a third line, with a small aluminium (or may be copper, can't remember) tube inside the fuel line, and left it open all the time. It was bent with a sharp angle, in order to discourage the fuel from coming out. Worked fine after that, and no fuel ever escaped through it, as there was always more fuel being sucked into the engine, and all the open pipe ever did was to supply air into the tank.  I will try to get a photo of the setup.

Moving on.....  so let us say I have ensured that fuel is coming into the carb, and the carb is free of dirt.  I have also established that the plug and hotshot/ignitor are working fine (if you take the plug out, insert it in the igniter, and it glows reddish orange with some strength, it should be OK).  I have ensured that the low speed and high speed needles are not fully closed. But the engine still refuses to start. 

Where do we go next ?

Oh! That brings us to the question. Who is/are the RC elite?

With a two line  set up you would know the moment you started to fuel. It would - immediately - start to spill out of the "pressure line.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=25209&dict=CALD      :giggle:

I couldn't explain it any better  8-)   Everyone on this forum are part of the "RC masses", that is what "I personally believe" (which is a phrase immortalized by a certain "Miss South Carolina" as shown in the clip below).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII

We still need to get back to the original/real topic though !  ;D

The question which was asked was "who are the elites of this forum" not "what is elite"
And Anwar never knew or even suspected that you openly/secretly considered yourself to be equivalent to a beauty contestant. But alas your comparision on "I personally beleive front" forces me to come to this conclusion.
 

Wish you had clarified the "of this forum" part  8-)  And even then, I inadvertantly replied to that also, that there are no elites here, as "I personally believe" !

You should see "Miss Congeniality" :giggle:  I am certainly among the "light-hearted masses", not in any uptight group. "Quoting someone" and "equating of personality" are pretty unrelated concepts to the masses, but do those mundane details matter among friends !?!?

Now back to the question at hand  :P  If fuel is coming in, the needles are open and the plug is fine, where does one look when the engine still doesn't start ?!?!? Any takers ?

 

If the plug is lit right, fuel is flowing in and the engine still refuses to start (that is starts speeds up and shuts down or yuu get uneven and jerky running) now is th time to check for appropriate high speed needle opening. Keep it in between 1 1/2 to 2 turns from fully closed and it should start.
If not you need to check for proper compression. Your cylinder and piston should not have any deep scoring and scrtaches if you have a ringed engine you may not be able to feel the compression on a cold engine here you also need to check if the psiton ring is not stuck or broken which is best done with engine dismantled.
  If even compression is right and all the above steps have been carried out you have one really sick engine which needs to be dismantled to check for real cause   

Thanks again Captain for one of the most useful threads on this site  :salute:

You mentioned that 1.5 to 2 turns open (from the fully closed position) is a good default to start with on the main needle (except for an engine that is brand new and not broken in, closer to 3 turns may be better). What would be a good such default on the low speed needle ?  Or is it dependent on the brand in any way ?

Anwar,
The openings of one and half to two turns should hold good for any engine new or old on a fixed wing aircraft tostart with and once engine is running one can richen or lean the engine further.
Since we are talking of engine refusing to start, the low speed needle can be left alone. An engine will start and sustain even if he LSN is fully screwed in or out, only thing one may need to take care is to keep the venturi open differently from a well tuned engine.   

Hmm... that was interesting.  I did have personal experience on two different occasions where Thunder Tiger engines on cars would not start at all until the low needed was open 4 turns or above.  Only had this with TT engines, and that is why I asked the question that way.  Must be one off incidents.

mixture control screw (low speed screw) position has a direct effect on the needle control setting. a wrong mixture control setting may result in extra opening of the needle valve like 4 turns etc depending on the engine. for an old engine to work properly the carb has to be squeaky clean in the first place. also the correct pressure has to be given from the silencer to the tank for proper running.

Harish,
The LSN has no bearing when the throttle is either fully open or will have only varying affect based on how much is the barrel open or closed and that is the reason I wrote about the venturi open differently. What the LSN needle does is to obstruct (meter) the main fuel orfice when the barrel is starting to close from some where around slightly less than 1/2 open, after it is open beyond 1/2 you can peer inside the carb and see that the the two are quite apart and hence will not have any affect on each other.
If you are taling about car engines I do not have any idea but this is how it works on a two needle aero carb. There are air bleed and a special one used by Enya which uses both fuel metering and air bleed combination, which requires a full page explanation 8-)

Anwar,
The only time I have owned and used a TT engine was thier first generation 19 engine which was not much than paper weight. But then the openings mentioned are true for most modern and commonly availble engines. There might be some which might differ. Again the factor which might affect the number of turns is the pitch on the high speed needle thread. A finer thread means more number of turns and a coarser thread means lesser turn.   
 

Normally when one starts an engine, the throttle servo end points are set in such a way that the carb barrel opening is left at 1mm or 1.5mm.   At this position, the LSN is the one that is dominant in determining the fuel supply into the engine.  So how does it make sense to say that the LSN position (even fully closed) is immaterial ?   

The LSN is dominant from 0 to about 35% of the throttle range, between 35% and 60% both LSN and HSN have an impact, and above 60% it is primarily the HSN, right ? (these percentages are only approximations, just trying to put some numbers).

Anwar you are absolutely right. But then you also did not read my posts carefully. I have said even if the the LSN is fully closed the engine could be started with the venturi differently opened, not necessarily what openings we use normally.
The entire post is aimed at some one who does not have some one experienced to help him/her and by going through the thread presumably could trouble shoot the engine. Therefore I would not recommend some one fiddling with the LSN if the engine is not starting. I would rather recommend that the barrel is gradually opened a bit more and engine tried starting (if all the previous things have been checked and found correct) and if the engine starts and sustains running at more than 1/3 throttle barrel open (ball park figure only) would it mean that the time has come to fiddle with that LSN

But then we do not want to start the engine at a significantly high rpm (i.e. high throttle position) either, right ? 

Starting at high RPM is particularly nasty for helis which have clutches (while the main blades are held down by force).  Even a few seconds on high rpm can cause the clutch to grind off, and in extreme cases, the heat builds up and the clutch bell explodes (I have seen it at least once  :o)

Anwar,
The only thing I know about Heli is that simply put "they are not airplanes".
So all my comments and suggestion necessarily only pertain to fixed wings. 

Most TT car engines default start setting are 2.5-3 turns on HSN and about 4.5-5 turns on LSN. This wll be a very rich setting, will help to start, but will die down unless corrected.

Our member Deepak Chopra (b4ggu) (http://www.rcindia.org/profile/?u=87) responded on Facebook to this thread with the following.

"A couple of drops of petrol NO MORE have known to start some of my stubborn engines."

Interesting...  can you explain more ?


PS: We have no feed from Twitter/Facebook back into RC India at this time, that is why I am posting this manually here.

Interesting. Did he mean glow engines when he said stubborn engines?
One of the tricks for starting diesel engines during a chilly morning was to keep it wrapped in wollen rag, started much easily 

This reminded me with a problem I had with a relatively new .91 FX last year. As usual, I primed and attempted to start ( on idle ). and the engine just would not start. However when i increased throttle to 1/2 then the engine started, though died when i idled it back. Ran OK on full throttle though. I had to open the LSN to get it to start ( and idle ) properly.
What was surprising was , that I had never touched the LSN on that engine before, and the last it flew was a year back. So not sure why the LSN needed to be touched/ opened.
Now, after a year from this incident, I started the engine again last weekend. And again the same problem seemed to occur. I had to open the LSN half turn to get it to run on idle. But after running for a minute or so , felt that the idle was too rich, so closed that 1/2 turn back to get it to where it was originally.
I felt that surprising, as normally i would not have access to LSN, if the engine was cowled..
Perhaps the carb needs to be cleaned ?

I assume you use castor as lubricant. The LSN needle (or rather sleeve) can get clogged with castor residue. This is 99.99 the cause in your case as the engines wereleft unrun for quite sometime.
This should have gone away after the engine had time to heat up and maybe burn of the residue.
Yes time to clean your carb   

Keep a 20 cc plastic syringe in your field kit for checking out fuel issues, blowing in/ sucking fuel out of the various line. DO NOT USE YOUR MOUTH TO BLOW/ SUCK- FUEL CONTAINS METHANOL.

tHE WAY I WOULD GO ABOUT IT IS IN STAGES
1. DOES THE ENGINE RUN on prime alone.
Set up the engine after checking the that the plug glows, and prop turns over easily.
Disconnect all fuel lines.
Put about 1/4 ml of fuel into the carb through the  venturi. Turn the prop over a few time , attach the glow booster and flick the pro / use starter to start the engine.
If all is well with the engine, it should start, run for 10 seconds or so and die out.
Otherwise think of glow plug, compression and engine related issues.
no point going to the next step if step 1 fails.
If the engine turns over easily, but becomes tight after the fuel is put in, the it is flooded.
Note- 20cc syringe and 1/4 (0.25) cc of fuel max. about 10 drops is fine.
By the way- the fuel may be bad. borrow fresh fuel  and try agan. or the glow booster discharged.

Now step 2
Is the tank set up okay. Fill up 1/2 the tank.
2 tube tank
Use the  syringe to blow air in through the muffler pressure port. Fuel should come out of the  fuel tube.
Then suck fuel out of the fuel tube- there should be no air bubbles.
If this is okay, the tank is fine. If not take the tank apart check the clunk and fuel tubes. Pressurize each tube with the syringe and look for blocks, or leaks.
3 tube tank
with the tank 1/2 full, and plane flatand all 3 tubes open., suck fuel out of all 3 tubes- fuel should come out of 2 and air out of the third. The one that air is coming out of is the muffler pressure tube.

Invert the plane. Now suck the  first 2 tubes.( from which fuel came out of). Fuel will come out of one- the fuel line and air out of the other- the filling line. if fuel comes out of both ( don't test the muffler pressure tube now it is alreadyidentified.), then both have clunks and either can be connected to the carb.
Fuel line to carb, pressure line to muffler and close the fill/emptyline.

If there is any issue take the tank apart and check.
Surf the net for information on tank set up and if you still can't understand it, get help from someone who does.

if all is well, go to step 3
 Leave the LOW SPEED NEEDLE as it is.
ensure that the carb barrel turns easily and fully from full open to full closed. Conect the syringe  in it to the fuel inlet of the carb. Open the high speed needle about 2 to 2.5 turns from fully closed.
See if you can easily inject air into the carb with the syringe. Then try to inject fuel into the carb with the syringe. If you can't there is rubbish blocking the fuel inlet. sort it out. remove the carb and try to flush out the rubbish after completely removing the HSNeedle.
Just to ensure that the whole fuel plumbing is okay - inject air into the fuel tank thorugh the pressure tube- fuel should enter the engine through the carb- just be sure you not flood the engine, if you do clear it.
Now connect the fuel line from the tank to the carb and prime the engine by turning the prop without the glow booster
The engine should now start with the carb barrel 1/3 open.
The high speed needel can the be adjusted.
Going in this stepwise manner should ensure that we are dealing with problems in a logical manner.
If the engine does not even fire on prime, no point fiddling with the low speed needle.
hope this clarifies rather than confuses the issue.
Avijit
. 
 

The syringe is a nice touch  :P  No wonder one improvises using the tools of his trade  :thumbsup:  :giggle:

We get long wet and muggy winters when it gets dark at 4pm. As from Sept / Oct a lot of us stop flying outdoors and resume in March/ April.
Winter months do offer a chance of indoor electric flying to some of us. This does not apply to the hard core RC Flyers though. You see them at the flying fields even after snow with their electric and nitro models.
Coming back to the point, when the fuel has been left standing in the garage for those cold winter months, it is a common problem that the engines will not start as the fuel has absorbed moisture.
At this point, a few drops of petrol in half a gallon can help.

Hello RC lovers,
        Today i tried my best to start my ASP .25 but was able to start only once. Its a new engine. I read many threats, but none can help me. Complete day trial gave me a start only once, which lasted for about three minutes. then after stopping it, i found that fuel ran back to pipes.
please note my procedure.

1:After setup, i closed the upper end of carb, and gave engine about five fricks, until fuel seemed to reach the carb. Then again two fricks for fuel to go in the engine.

2:Ignited glow plug using 1000mah nicd cell.

3:Gave engine many two-three fricks, and tried for about 30 mins, adjusting the needles every time. A few times engine even backed up.

4:Even warmed up once using hot blower, as i read in on of the threats.

5:Finally it started once, we enjoyed the roar, and played with throttle controls to acclerate and deacclerate, simultaneously adjusting the remote needle as well.It went on for about 3hree minutes.

6:Finally i found by adjusting the flow through remote needle, that lesser the flow, more the pickup, of engine..

7:I stopped the engine, to have a start again. And i found that fuel backed in the tank during the next trial.

8:Repeated the procedure(except warming up), and finally made a mess with the needle adjustments.I even disturbed the one in carb, using a small screw driver.

Then wasted whole day, engine did not start. My younger  bro even had a cut on finger when engine backed up.

Please note that i have used chicken stick method for starting. And fuel: 70% methanol(obtained from lab equipment shop)+ 30 % castor oil(natural oil filtered one)


Please help me to adjust the needles again, the one in the carb, as well as the remote needle.
And suggest me if im wrong in my procedures.

And please tll me if there is some other step im missing..
I dont want to use engine starters.

Thanks in advance..

Are you in Lucknow itself, or far ?  Reading the description, the simplest would be to meet up with one of the experienced glow flyers around. 

For a new engine, your starting point on needle setup would be the values suggested in the manual.

Unfortunately, i didnt get any manual. ill try to find it out on some link.
Help if someone already have the link for the manual..
Some LHS provide the manual also in pdf formatt. I dont remember the name of LHS.

Yes sir im in lucknow

Since you have had soo much trouble, may I suggest a step wise method of going about it.
Fuel 80% methanol and 20% castor oil. To 135ml of the fuel you already mixed add 65ml of pure methanol to make a total of 200ml.
Check that the booster is adequately charged. Remove the glow plug from the cylinder head and confirm that it glows brightly when connected to the battery. then re install,do this carefully so as not to damage the threads..
Check that you are using the recommended prop. 9x6 should be okay and it should be fitted so that compression is felt at the 2 o'clock position.
Practise a few sharp flicks. you must have done a lot of that , but be sure the flick is sharp- with a chicken stick of course.
Invest in a 10ml plastic disposible syringe. do NOT directly blow with your mouth into any tubing/tank that contains methanol. GOES WITHOUT SAYING DON'T EVEN THINK OF SUCKING ON A PIPE TO DRAW METHANOL CONTAINING FUEL.
HENCE the 10ml plastic syringe.
I assume you have a fuel tank that is connected appropriately.
The tube with the clunk connected to the fuel inlet of the carb. the other tube( air vent tube connected to the muffler pressure port.
Engine is reliably mounted on a test stand/ model.
Fill up the 10ml syringe with3 ml of fuel.
Do not connect the fuel tank to your motor.
Put 3 drops of fuel/ not more down the open barrel of the carb. Through which air enters. The opening you blocked with your finger to prime the engine.
Flick the prop over 3 times.
Attach your glow booster now.
FUEL TANK DISSCONNECTED.
Flick the engine over till it runs.
It will start-run for a few seconds and then stop.
Do not pour more fuel down the carb because it isn't starting, unless you have flicked it at least 20 times.
so the routine is 3 drops of fuel, flick the engine till it starts or 20 flicks- which ever is earlier, then repeat process.
If it doesn't start after 3-4 attempts like this, the engine is flooded.
Remove the glow plug and flick the engine till all the fuel comes out.
Remember the engine burns fumes of the fuel not the liquid stuff.

If you got this right,you have a working engine and you have learned the technique of hand starting a glow engine-which is something great.
All you need to do is to tune the carb.
 

Abhay
I am sure you have buggered up the settings, and even possibly run it too lean (your statment "Finally i found by adjusting the flow through remote needle, that lesser the flow, more the pickup, of engine") gives me that feeling.
Besta dvice, get someone who knows to start and run in your engine before it is too late (if it not already too late)
Sorry for sounding pessemistic but all what you wrote above point to the dreaded fact

http://media.globalhobby.com/manual/210625.PDF (http://media.globalhobby.com/manual/210625.PDF)
the link to magnum 25 manual which is th esame as ASP 25.
for High speed needle- the one at the back
Close the needle completely then unscrew it 2 1/2 turns.
For low speed needle- the little one inside the Carb which you turned with a little screw driver which you should not have
Read and understand the instructions carefully
Open the throttle so the barrel is fully open.
Screw in the little low speed needle till it is fully closed. then unscrew it 3 full turns. And DO NOT MEDDLE  with it again except under competant supervission.
I hope this helps you.
It should if you follow the step wise instructions and don't skip steps.
I follow the first part of the instructions with every new engine.
Only after i have got the engine running on prime do i connect the fuel tank and start the engine etc.

Please let us have a feed back on how you have fared.
you will have learnt a lot after this experience.
download and print the engine manual
regards and good luck
Avijit
p.s Anwar: Could we have something like this as a sticky topic and insist that all beginners read it.

We already have a thread that has been "sticky-ied" :

http://www.rcindia.org/fuel-and-engines/tip-dealing-with-a-glow-or-nitro-engine-that-refuses-to-start/

I am thinking of merging this one into that... comments ?

Capt. Manish is right. But since you couldn't run the engine except once, there is no permanent damage
Just try not to fiddle with the needles too much the first try arround.
if you have faithfully followed the instructions- not mine, the ones in the magnum manual,and still can't get the engine to run, then you will need expert advice.
Avijit
P.S.
Thanks anwar. Abhay please read the link as well. Good idea to merge both threads.
I feel most manuals do not suggest that the engine first be fired up on prime before attaching on the fuel lines.
I learnt it from starting diesels and think it is good practise.

Merged with existing discussion on glow engine startup issues.

Reading out threats to the engine should have worked. Did you try swearing at it too ?  :giggle:

Seriously, there is information on this thread to find good initial settings for needles. Start from there.

had the same issue with a TT 61 size engine last month. engine just wasn't running.
finally opened the low speed needle and the engine ran just fine.
regards,
Avijit

Every engine one deals with seems to add to the knowledge base !

Thanks all,
               Ive read replies and learnt several thinks, which i never knew  :thanks: .Hope to get time soon to have a try with the engine again. Now i am confident enough to start engine.In my earlier attempts i was a little afraid, but now i can go far further with the provided guidelines.

Thanks again,
Regards,
Abhay Singh

if you can get hold of an electric starter, flood the engine, remove the glow plug and run the starterfor 4-5 seconds.. fuel will spray out of the glow plug opening. once the fuel stops spraying out, replace the glow plug, apply the booster and flick the engine . it is sure to start.
Avijit

When you are doing as adviced by the good Doctor, make sure to either remove the tank connection or close the high speed needle fully in else, the fuel spray from plug hole would continue till the tank is emptied.

thanks all, :) :salute:
Today i tried to start the engine that was finally mounted on plane. And it was unbelievable , following the instructions, the engine started in first frick. I dont owe chicken stick, so i started with the back holder of screw driver.

One more thing i would like to add, which was my foolishness, that the fuel tank was lying at a very much lower level earlier, so the fuel backed up in tank due to suction force.

Abhay

Must be a Chinese engine. ;D

Don't check the urban dictionary for this type of flicking ;D  It is definitely NSFW !

yes Sushil sir, it is ASP .25 engine.(made in china).. ;D

what sushil meant is the term is FLICK and not fRick.
Avijit

The joke is simply that Chinese pronounce "l" as "r". Even their cameras go "crick"!

so! t was a joke on me..hum.  :headscratch:

hum?  Sure if you don't know the words.

High everyone. I am a newbie at engines. I have a o.25 OS engine and it is giving me a hard time sustaining.
The engine starts fine. However the moment i take off the booster it stalls.
I am using the recommended needle settings ie 1 and 1/2 turns.
Please suggest solutions.

The first thing to check is if you have a weak/bad glow plug. 

Hi Anwar,
Thanks for the reply. I checked the GP. Its fine as far as knw. It glows bright when i connect the booster.
What else do u suggest?

What happens if you increase throttle to above 50% and then remove the booster ?  Does the engine continue to run ?

If the behaviour you described is during idle (or very low throttle), then try leaning out the *low* needle a bit.

When i am at more that 1/2 throttle and remove the booster, the engine dies slowly. There is an immediate drop in rpm though as soon as i take off the booster. It stalls eventully. I played with the needle and everything works fine as long as the booster is on

@rockmania.89
Check plug colour. Should glow orange, not red.
Is your fuel old / has water/ has no oil or too little oil.
Try freshly mixed 80% methanol / 20% castor oil (and 1%-5% nitromethane if you have it)
Colour of exhaust smoke?

From page 27 of OS Max 10/15/25 LA Series Manual:
Engine starts but revs decrease and engine eventually stops. Mixture too rich. Close needle half turn.
Engine stops when battery disconnected. Mismatch of glowplug and fuel. Change fuel or glowplug.

Hope this helps

Not sure what playing means. When people try to help remotely, please take the time to describe what exactly was involved in this "play".  Which needle did you try messing with, in which direction etc etc.

I hope you understand the difference between low needle and high needle, and what it means to "lean out".  What you are seeing is typically the result of a weak glow plug, or too rich a mixture. 

Please respond with exactly what you tried (or you are going to try), based on the above suggestions.

Hello everyone. Thanks for replying. Also apologies for not describing the entire thing. By playing around i meant that i have the needle valve set to 1 turn from full closed. So the behaviour is as expected as far as the booster is on. Also the glow color is orange and not red  ;). I guess i will change the gp and check once ,havent done it so far as i dont have a spare one.
Thanks for ur thots :)

@rockmania.89
You didn't say anything about the fuel.

I m not sure how old the fuel is . Got it from a friend. Also i dont have nitromethane.

@rockmania.89
Try fresh 80/20.

Here is a pointer on communication. 

1.  You are still not saying WHICH needle you are messing with.

2.  Even more importantly, we don't know how familiar you are with engines in general.  So please confirm that you know the difference between high and low needle, and (separately answer if you know) how they work.

So please read our responses, and respond to EACH POINT / QUESTION. We may be assuming things based on your answers, and this will take much longer unless you provide clear answers :)

One who knoweths, to the flying field he goeths !!