RC India

RC Models => Gas/Glow/Nitro Planes => Topic started by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:19:49 PM



Title: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:19:49 PM
Finally !!!!!
With most of the stuff in place, there were no more excuses for not starting the build.
So last week got to workand started putting the Tiggy together.
The kit is from Falcon Models in UK, a super scale kit and most of the wood and other hardware is supplied. Check out the site http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_1_4_Scale_DH82a_de_Havilland_Tiger_Moth_21.html
The model would span 88 inches, target weight is around 15 Lbs and would be powered by a Laser 150 Four stroke glow. The model could easily be flown with a standard modern 120 4T but given the relaibility of the Laser, I have gone with this engine.

Started off with the tailplane first. Here are couple of pictures of the tail being assembeled. Do feel free to ask if you have any questions  

1. The tailplane plan all laid out
2. The tow halves for dry run
3. The CNC cut sheets. All wood is CNC ut and not laser, this was done to avoid the blackened edges and I am not compltaining
 



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:38:09 PM
The tail was completed and kept aside for sanding. The pic looks small but the tailplane is about 2 1/2 feet.
These are the supplied CNC cut epoxy board sheet fittings for various parts


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sandeepm on June 17, 2011, 12:39:28 PM
love to see the balsa build log............keep going without break.......!!! {:)}


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on June 17, 2011, 12:40:23 PM
All the best! This one is guaranteed to be a show stopper.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:41:07 PM
These are the epoxy board horns very close in shape and structure to the ones found on full scale. In the previous pictures you can see on the board from where these have been seperated


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:47:22 PM
A few shots of the supplied metal fittings, there are more than 100 steel and brass fittings supplied, with numerous nuts and botls. All nuts, bolts and screws are in BA sizes, so have to be very careful not to loose any.
The steel fittings have been strung in a wire so that none are lost.
Fittings spread out, and close up of the same
the last picture is of the tail skid bracket. Most of the hard work is done  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:50:56 PM
Another shot of the tail skid bracket.
The brass fittings are for the shackles on the control linkages. And a shot of the supplied nuts, bolts and screws.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 12:57:03 PM
yesterday, decided to replicate the scale cowl latches and started experimenting with various materials. finally was able to fashion out one which looked convincing enough.
Here are few shots of the same. The loop is made from 1/16 brass wire, bent, flattened, and filed and then silver soldered on to a 3/32 Brass tube. Half a ball pen spring was silver soldered on to a 4-40 washer.
The two pictures are of my contraption and the full scale one (the fasteners are the round projections on both side of the chin cowl). These are spring loaded and twist and open/close type.     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 01:01:23 PM
More shots of the test piece made.
And lastly the wastages in the process of experimenting. The one looking like alphabet "P" was ok, but the moment i would try to solder it on to the brass tube the straight piece soldered on would coe loose due to the solder melting out. Guess I could have used a heat sink there to avoid the issue. But then I think I will go with the last one and the method adopted here.
Last work to be done is drill the tube and insert a small cotter pin to retain the washer, and make three more of these


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 01:07:10 PM
The sprung and dampened undercarriage kit supplied, not much to do except bolt things together and clad the pieces in some litho plate. Compare the pic of the kit to the orginal one :thumbsup:   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 01:10:35 PM
Next task was to start the fin and rudder assembly. Just like the full scale one the fin and tail plane are bolted on no glued on. Also you can see the huge gaps between the moving surfaces and in case you had not noticed the control surfaces have no belvel on the leading edges, relying on the gaps instead to aid in free movement.
The second pictures shows the sheets from which the shaped parts have been removed. The blank sheets would provide enough wood to build a small stick and tissue model


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 01:16:19 PM
And this is how the interplane struts would be fitted! Very scale manner   :hatsoff:
And now off to gluing the fin and rudder parts, wil post here as soon as some more progress has been made


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on June 17, 2011, 01:23:57 PM
superb buildin..... keep going sir will be following this thread until the video of the maiden flight..!!

 :hatsoff: :hatsoff:  to you.!

and  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 :salute: :salute:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Rao on June 17, 2011, 01:32:46 PM
True feast for the eyes of a balsa kit building lover. {:)} (:|~


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 17, 2011, 01:34:49 PM
Thanks Sandeep, VC, RC Vish and Rao


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: PankajC on June 17, 2011, 07:09:18 PM
Tail is 2 1/2 feet!!... Where are you going to keep it? Planning to move away from the bedroom?

Greate build, keep going


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 18, 2011, 09:24:46 AM
Talking of scale fidelity, compare the picture of the elevator horn posted at #4 above and the one on the full scale posted here. Pretty close and convincing is it not?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on June 18, 2011, 09:31:46 AM
pretty similar....!!

sir these gonna be connected by push rods or by cables (like the original one had) :hatsoff:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 18, 2011, 09:43:03 AM
Cables, thimbles, fairleads, shackles, turnbuckles all will be there per full size. As far as practical and possible efforts  would be towards replicating the full size


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 21, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
Hello, Manish.
I've caught up with you at last. Thanks for the link  :)

Here's one I did earlier. This was taken at Old Warden during the Scale Day Competition. It won.



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: PankajC on June 21, 2011, 04:10:51 PM
superb!!!!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 21, 2011, 05:55:31 PM
Will you be maiking your own panel instruments, Manish, or, like me, purchasing them from InZpan? They're very good!

Here's a couple of shots, one of PK's panel and one of her at the North Berks scale meeting one year ago. This is a Traplet 1/4 scale kit powered by a Laser 150.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: anwar on June 21, 2011, 06:49:42 PM
Doncoe... welcome to RC India :) 

Stunning scale fidelity :hatsoff: 

How do you weather them so well ?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 21, 2011, 07:01:12 PM
Thanks for your welcome, anwar.  :hatsoff:

Weathering? Use a dirty brush and practice fo fifty years for so!  :)  Not quite like that but very nearlly so.
After having painted the parts with an artists sable brush I work on the surface a little with darker tones & black. Around details like the re-inforcing pads on the cowling, wait for the paint to be dry then flood in a little black, well thinned, with a brish count to ten then give a gentle wipe with an old handkerchief as though you were cleaning the full size machine but missed a bit.

If all goes pearshaped you can always wipe in off with a turpsey cloth and have another go. If I can find the time when I'm painting the Falcon Tiger Moth, I'll post a YouTube video clip!
Regards.
Don 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: PankajC on June 21, 2011, 07:07:33 PM
Hi doncoe,
Admire your eye for detail, must have taken ages to build Im sure.

Pankaj


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 21, 2011, 07:09:46 PM
About two years for that one, Pankaj.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 22, 2011, 07:44:57 AM
Don,
Welcome to RC India. To answer your question re instruments I would go with Inzapan (aerocockpit), I do not have skills to replicate them as well as those made professionally  ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 22, 2011, 02:23:17 PM
Is it OK with you, Manish, that I post pix on your thread? I want to make sure that, as a newcomer, I'm not stepping out of line :-)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: CrazyPilot on June 22, 2011, 03:18:48 PM
Finally !!!!!
With most of the stuff in place, there were no more excuses for not starting the build.
Do feel free to ask if you have any questions 

 :hatsoff: to u Sir. I have one question though. Could u please post the cost breakup for complete build including kit parts motor etc. Thx


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: avijit17basu on June 22, 2011, 06:40:49 PM
It costs a fortune, the prices for various parts of the kit are put up. Add postage and customs and it is. Big bucks.
avijit


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 23, 2011, 08:00:32 AM
Don, you are most welcome to post pictures on this thread. I am sure not only I but others would also benifit from your skills. And it would be my honour to be watched by the master of the craft while I go about putting my Tiggy together.
And all of us here would be waiting for you to put up your own thread with some of those superb creations 

Crazy pilot - Will try and put the things together. Put I am afraid of one thing. Les't that be seen by my better half :giggle:
But long back I had stopped counting the pennies (or should that be the Paisa) I have been putting in this hobby.  :o  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 23, 2011, 02:52:26 PM
Thank you, Manish, for the OK to post pix onto this thread. I'll limit them to those relevant to your Falcon model and will take your advice to start a thread of my own and invite you to 'attend'.   

'Bye for now :hatsoff:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 24, 2011, 10:53:09 AM
Some more progress has been made.
Completed the fin and rudder (except final sanding), fitted the control horns and then finally started on the fuse.
The shots below show the completed fin, the reinforced structure (all with 1/64 ply) to ensure a very rigid structure


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 24, 2011, 10:59:19 AM
And this is how the tail comes together.
The rudder horns bolted on the structure
The last two shot is of the fuse sides laid together


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 24, 2011, 03:39:41 PM
Looking good, Manish  {:)} I found the design to be really good for rigidity and lightness. This afternoon I'll post a picture of my fuselage underside to show the plywood sheeting which isn't too clear from the drawings.

For now I must cut the grass and hoe the vegetables.  :banghead:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: tango on June 24, 2011, 05:12:01 PM
Love the Tiger Moth.. I have started recovering an old beat up GWS tiger Moth i have loved and flown extensively. I researched some really good scale schemes, especially Indian Air Force ones and one of a Maroon TM from the delhi flying club. Chck it out..


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 24, 2011, 07:53:09 PM
I like the Maroon scheme, tango. particularly the Hefferlump. Have you seen this shot of her in Germany. You'll then be able to paint the DH logo onto each side!

Good luck with the re-furb {:)}

Regards, Don


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on June 24, 2011, 09:08:18 PM
@ manish sir: i am not able to see the hinges on the elevator or the rudder.. can please post some closeup pics of the hinges.. bit curious (:|~


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: allthatido on June 24, 2011, 09:13:55 PM
Looking at this thread and also Doncoe's planes's thread..i have started falling in love with vintage aircrafts. These beauties are simply awesome.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 24, 2011, 10:01:11 PM
Looking at this thread and also Doncoe's plaes's thread..i have started falling in love with vintage aircrafts. These beauties are simply awesome.

...and so you should ankurkaul17  Here's another for your delictation  ;)

It's my 1/4 scale Sopwith Pup from the plans of Mick Reeves.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: CrazyPilot on June 24, 2011, 10:12:43 PM
EDIT: Sorry Wrong Thread


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 24, 2011, 10:35:15 PM
Sorry, Manish.   8-)
Have just realised that I posted those pictures on your thread.  I meant to post them on mine


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 29, 2011, 08:07:48 AM
No worries Don, as I said earlier you are welcome to post.

RC Vish,
The hinges are Robart pin type, 310. These are 3/16 dia hinges. When fitted on the Moth, not only the knuckles look scale they also ensure scale hinge gaps on the surfaces (and mind you these gaps on the tiger moth are huge by model standards where the general principle is to minimise all hinge gaps).
Here are some pictures of the hinges used. I have cut them down to save some weight (Practice shamelessly copied from Don) 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 29, 2011, 08:12:56 AM
The fuse sides have been completed, sanded down to ensure all is smooth. If you woud notice the first four pieces are spruce beyond which all members are balsa. The fuse is a long one hence difficult to get the entire fuse in a single frame of picture 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 29, 2011, 08:25:51 AM
And after completing the sides I am stuck. Before I proceed further I have to fit the metal parts on the fuse. And before I can fit them I need to countersink the holes.
The problem is I do not know if I would be able to get countersink bits with 1/8 shank. As I intend using my dremel and dremel work stand and Dremel can only accomodate upto 1/8 shank size bits.
On an alternative been thinking to get the countersink bit with standard 1/4 shank and get it turned down to 1/8 which can then be fitted on to my dremel. Hope the Dremel will be man enough to perform the intended operation. If not will have to device some other strategy :banghead:
Here are some pictures of the Dremel work stand and the work bench vice


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 29, 2011, 08:43:03 AM
There were some questions on glue I am using.
For all balsa to balsa, unless the assembly requires sometime to position I use cyano (Anabond being easily availble here). For hardwoods like spruce and ply joints I am using Titebond PVA, which after I procured from Tower realized that is akin to our domestic Fevicol SH. Colour is differen though. So now I am happily using both Titebond and Fevicol based on which bottle my hand reaches first  :giggle:
I had also ordered Titebond liquid PU glue which is similar to foaming glue that Susheel posted a few days back.
Pictures of the glue bottle attached.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on June 29, 2011, 11:03:45 AM
thanks on the hinges reply sir.

the covering for the fuse and the wing/tail will be of traditional silk and dope. or monokote matching the texture..! ( just curious on how a real 1/4th scale be built) + which colour scheme?

 :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :salute:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on June 29, 2011, 12:38:26 PM
Manish. I see that you will have difficulty in countersinking the holes in the supplied metalwork with the Dremel. I suggest that you use a C/S bit in a hand drill with the metalwork held down onto a wooden block in some way. An alternative would be to go to your local motorcycle repair shop and have them to do the job with their pillar drill.

Or you could come here and I'll do them! FOC, of course :-))


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2011, 08:13:28 AM
RC Vish, the covering will be natural Solartex with paint. Yet to choose a colour scheme. I am looking for simple yet striking civillian scheme. Any suggestions? My other two Tiggies are Civil scheme as well.
Would have loved to do silk/Nylon and dope but for availability of tautening dope locally and the stuff can not be imported :banghead:

Don,
Thanks for the suggestion and offer. If I may suggest, the metal work could be supplied countersunk by Chris, even if for an additional cost, it may save some heartaches for builders like me.

And finally some good news, went and bought countersinking bit. As expected could not locally procure the 1/8th bit so bought the 1/4 shank bit, with intention to have the shank turned down to 1/8. Later at home, just to see how it works, chucked up the bit in my hand drill and worked on the metal fittings. Wohooo!! it worked so went on working........ The trust and rusty hand drill did the job. I am sure not to win any prizes for it but it will work nicely.

So Don...
Your advice was spot on :hatsoff: I think we think alike :giggle:    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2011, 08:21:55 AM
So for people who have never done some countersinking here are few pictures
1. The screw has a countersunk head (see the conical shape of the head) and hence the need for countersinking

2. This is what is known as countersinking bit. This one is 90 degree bit (there are others like 82, 100 and 120 so you need to know what degree the screw head you are using subtends).
 
3. The two top holes in the metal have been countersunk. You can the screw on top right in the hole is sitting almost flush, while the one in bottom left is standing proud of the surface. Notice the shadow cast by the screw



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2011, 08:41:05 AM
Don,
These two pictures relate to the questions I had for you with reference to metal fittings


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on July 06, 2011, 01:33:21 AM
Sorry, Manish. I've been away for a short while and have forgotten what your query was regarding the metal fittings.  I've just looked at mine and can say that those with the flat tops go inside the fuselage and those with the top shape in two lobes go on the outside. Those on the outside have countersunk holes. The screws go through the shaped top one from the outside, then the fuselage, then the flat topped one. Add a washer and nut then you're done!  The inner ones need to bent inwards slightly.

Is that what you were asking?   :giggle:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 08, 2011, 10:38:19 AM
Never mind Don, I too was stuck with some heavy workload
My query was if the metal fittings in my picture above were correctly identified, you see the top edge is different from as shown on plans. I was apprehensive that if left as is would there be any issues in fitting the incidence wire clevises later?
However I think I was able to ressolve this. The metal fittings are now fitted having ground the upper edges to the shape indicated on the plans.    ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on July 08, 2011, 09:31:47 PM
Manish. I have many pictures of the rebuild of ACDC and this one may be of help. Chris has got very close to scale with these fittings!
Regards,
Don


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 08, 2011, 10:57:05 PM
Wow ! Don those are the pictures of the full size rebuild. I tought you were talking about a model. You are lucky to have had access to ACDC while being re-built.
And yes those metal fittings from Chris could not be any closer


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on August 01, 2011, 12:29:24 PM
sir how is the build going on  ??? ....!! no updates since long time...! just curious (:|~  :salute:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 02, 2011, 09:02:50 AM
In the words of Don, "I have to earn a living" so the work front and the family front have been keeping me busy.
Then the regular sunday flying needs that the models being flown are checked and if need be attended to so that you do not spend time tinkering at the field.
All these combined have left little time for the Tiger build. But a little bit of progress has been made.

Both the fuse sides are no joined together with the firewall and the former where the straight run of the fuse side ends.

Here are some pictures of the former and firewall being glued on to one side of fuse. Notice the use of set squares to keep things square


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 02, 2011, 09:09:38 AM
Once the formers and firewall was joined, added the metal fittings, used a bit of blue thread lock and tightened the nuts. Praying that there would be no occassion to open these up either during the build or later when the model is flying.
The top formers were added ensuring again all was straight.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 02, 2011, 09:27:17 AM
After all that it was time to build up the central control runs tunnel. In the full scale this structure houses all the control cables, rods, and other equipment and also forms the support for the seats in both the cockpits.
Designer of the model, Chris at Falcon Models has done a credible job of making the replica for the model and planning the installation of the servos within the control tunnel itself, so that most of the servo is invisible when the cockpit is complete. Similarly the seats fit on these tunnels.
Some pictures of the tunnel being assembled and then fitted on to the fuse. 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 02, 2011, 09:33:24 AM
The holes cut in the top ply portion (resembling letter 'D' are meant to take the joy sticks with the leather boots. The open areas are meant to take the moulded plastic seats which are supplied with the kit.

Here are a few pictures of the servo arrangement within the central tunnel. And notice how the holes for tightening the servo screws are already cnc cut on one side of the tunnel  

The first picture is of the elevator servo which links to the elevator bellcrank, the next one shows the rudder servo with pushrod to the rudder bar


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 02, 2011, 09:49:35 AM
And this is how the seats fit on to the tunnel
the first one is the front seat and then the rear. Both side viewsand top views are posted.
The seats are yet to be completely trimmed for fitting in snugly


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 02, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
And here's a look at the tunnel right through the firewall 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sundaram on August 02, 2011, 11:01:18 AM
 :hatsoff: Excellent Manish. I am spell bound and can only envy you.  :goodjob: Great Job Manish


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ujjwaana on August 02, 2011, 11:09:30 AM
Nice to see movement in my 'Favorite' thread of this forum Capt!. Your precision and patience always inspires me (I was talking to Sanjeev over this ).
Do keep us informed so that few of us here may even travel to Chennai to see its maiden!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on August 02, 2011, 04:23:43 PM
Great work, Manish.  For the record here's some shots of mine being built together with a photograph of the full size control box.
You'll see how accurate the kit is and how faithfully reproduced is the model by Manish. BTW Manish, the full size one would have been painted 'cockpit green'  ;)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on August 02, 2011, 05:40:50 PM
Manish.! Gr8 missed this post for a while due posting, though sandy told me about it, what a build ! Kudos


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 03, 2011, 09:30:22 AM
Thanks all for your kind words and encouragement.
And observing eyes would notice the mistakes I made (when compared to Don's build)

Don yes the box and the open cockpit area would be painted cockpit green. The structure as of now has been given two coats of dope and sanded well, ready for paint 

I am dithering on a crucial step where the tail has to be brought together. As most of us would know, this is one step if not done right can land you up with a crooked structure. I know I have to do this. I must muster all my resources (and courage) and get this done. I guess one of these days it would...   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on August 26, 2011, 07:42:37 PM
Hello Manish. I don't know if you ever saw this. It's the jig I use to hold Mick's fork ends and flat wire in position for silver soldering. I made it from a slab of duralumin, some sheet brass and 6BA hex screws. I first saw this idea on the RCSB site and copied it. Did you buy the complete set of rigging wires from Chris?  I bought just the wing rigging set and will be making up my own incidence & centre section wires.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on August 26, 2011, 08:00:05 PM
Manish Sir, only one old English word comes to mind as I go through this build - MESMERISED.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 27, 2011, 09:44:24 PM
Thanks Don for the pointers, I am going the easy route, have ordered the wires from Chris


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on August 27, 2011, 10:29:15 PM
BER, Manish  :o 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on August 27, 2011, 10:51:56 PM
For the uninitiated, from what I understand, BER stands for Beyond Economic Repair. Unless I am the one who is uninitiated, I don't see how the above post fits in here. I beg your pardon if I am intruding into a private conversation..............


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on August 27, 2011, 11:02:54 PM
Yes! Of course :banghead:  Absolutely right. Beyond Economic Repair.
I now feel initiated :giggle:  No such thing as a private conversation on a forum, VC. Chat on, I say - it's good to talk. Especially about our great hobby.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on August 27, 2011, 11:14:41 PM
Don, I can't bring myself to 'chat' with either you or Manish. It is not deemed 'propah' for a kindergarten student to chat with a post doctorate (unless he is naive enough to make a fool out of himself. Me dear departed old man once told me, "It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." I've made that statement a cardinal point of my life.). :bow:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: CrazyPilot on August 27, 2011, 11:38:52 PM
"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." I've made that statement a cardinal point of my life.). :bow:

+10 VC Sir. Story of my life. I have embraced just the other side of the coin. well sometimes its "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". Attribute # Mark Twain  :hatsoff: (some recent posts prove the point).

PS. I am intruding again but as they say I cant hold my liquor.  :banghead:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on August 27, 2011, 11:50:20 PM
Don't EVER hold your liquor, young man. DRINK it!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 28, 2011, 11:54:16 PM
VC,
You know , that's the reason why I chat (speak) less :-)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on August 29, 2011, 01:40:53 AM
 ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: davisf on October 17, 2011, 02:29:27 AM
Hello to everyone.  A few months ago I decided to scratch build a ¼ scale Tiger Moth and I also wanted it to be my first “scale” project.  At the time the only plans that I could find were the Mike Smart plans which I bought.  The plans are adequate to build the plane,  (and it is built and ready for final sanding and assembly )but not very detailed for scale.  After further research I came upon the Falcon Tiger Moth and ordered the metal parts and tank and cowl.  After receiving the parts I saw to my dismay that the Smart plans did not show me where any of the complicated Falcon parts are supposed to be positioned.  I also found out the Falcon build is considerably different from the Smart build and the tank and cowl need extensive alteration.  I wrote Falcon and asked for help identifying the metal parts, or could I purchase the plans?  And it gets worse…the parts they sent me are different from the parts on their website.  All my e-mails have been ignored so I don’t know if the parts ARE the same, on a different sheet or not the same, for a different plane.  I DO know that there is not part for the tail skid on the parts they sent me.  They have ignored all my e-mails asking for help.  They sure did not ignore the order that I placed with them for a few hundred dollars US!
I also bought a set of plans from Uncle Willie and again, the plans are good, but do not identify all the detail of where the parts go.  20/20 hindsight, I should have bought the Falcon short kit with the plans, but then that would not have been “scratch building! “ So, here is my question:  Can you help me identify where these metal parts go by giving or selling me a set of plans, sending me photos of the plans or helping me identify the parts if I send you a photo of my parts sheet. 
Falcon could have solved all this long a go by selling me a set of the plans, but they won’t respond.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Davis
ame across this thread while using GOOGLE.  I have a little problem that I hope someone may be able to help with.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on October 17, 2011, 08:36:53 PM
I'll see if I can be of help, Davisf  :)

I have to say that I cannot understand how anyone wanting to build from scratch can bring themselves to purchase components instead of making the parts themselves. Be that as it may, I can see that considerable amount of time may be saved by doing so and I assume that this is the reason for you going that route.

The Falcon Plan and parts are very, very accurate and go together as a package. You must not assume that a Falcon part will be shown on a Mike Smart plan. That's just not fair or reasonable.

Why should Mike Smart include Falcon parts on his drawings?  Falcon does include Falcon parts on the Falcon drawings.

I suggest that you purchase a set of Falcon plans for £45 UK pounds - that includes postage -  you will then discover where all of the metal fittings you have bought fit. They are all shown on the drawings together with the correct size of fastening/s required.  Falcon Models eagerly await your emailed order. http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/

The tailskid is not a part of the metal fittings pack.

Chris (Mr Falcon) Stewart tells me that he responds to all emails just as soon as he is able - and why shouldn't he - and is happy to advise anyone who has difficulty with his kit.

You are absolutely right when you say that you should have bought the Falcon kit to start with.

If I were you I would leave scratch building on the back burner until you have more experience.

If you need further help, this is the place to ask! {:)}


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 17, 2011, 10:03:13 PM
To chime in, I completely agree with what Don has to say. You have two different plans from two different designer, parts from third and you would want to add on your inputs as well.
Well that in my opinion is a sure recipe for lots of head scratching.
I have had no issues with mails or advice from Chris. Every time I have sent them a mail with my numerous queries, they have responded with appropriate advice. 
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: controlflyer on October 17, 2011, 10:16:46 PM
I just stumbled upon this thread, wow! nothing to say, man you've got a lot of work to do..
Very encouraging build.
Go on, finish her and let us see her fly.

CF


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: davisf on October 17, 2011, 10:44:59 PM
Thanks for the replies.  Now that I have a name and not just a sales e-mail address, maybe I can get the plans.

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!  In retrospect after seeing two other plans and part of the Falcon plans, there is no doubt in my mind that Falcon has the most detailed and scale of the plans that I have seen.  I also admit that I was put-off by the price.  I have about $65 invested in the wood.  The construction was a challenge also.  I will post pics of the almost finished airframe on a new thread.

Oh well, live and learn.  When it is done it will have many memories!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: davisf on October 19, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
I wanted to post the happy ending!  Falcon is going to sell me a set of plans and I will be able to finish the project!  Thanks to everyone for their help.
Davis


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on October 19, 2011, 11:56:05 PM
Glad to hear the good news, davisf. If you need guidance in your project, just ask, we’re here to help.
The Falcon DH82A is not an easy model by any stretch of the imagination and you’re sure to have many head-scratching moments. That’s what modelling is all about, I suppose.

After some sixty-five years of building model aircraft I am faced with a seemingly insurmountable problem every day.  Good Luck.
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 29, 2011, 09:10:07 AM
Finally plucked up enough courage, cleared the table once more, gave it some more thought, and brought the tail end together. Thankfully the fuse turned out straight and not a the dreaded banana.
Post which the dorsal formers and bottom cross members were added, with a few gussets at strategic location to spread the loads.
The tailplane seat with the blind nuts already seated in were also glued in.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 29, 2011, 01:22:14 PM
The front bottom portion of the fuse is covered with 3/32 ply.
I had one ply sheet in my kit which when offered length wise was short on width. So had to cut it up chord wise which again was insufficient to cover the entire area. Had to borrow some other pieces from sheets which had other CNC cut parts and then sand it well to merge. You can see the joinery in the previous picture.
Another mistake (on my part) was that the central U/c mounting plates where pushed too deep on to the control tunnel sides. This was not at all detected till the 3/32 sheets were offered for gluing. As a result the sheets which should have lined up do not. Hmm guess I will fill up and sand the offending area with some soft balsa. 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on October 29, 2011, 01:53:49 PM
I seem to recall that I found similar problems with the plywood sheet not being large enough until Chris pointed out that it was intended to butt up against the U/C mounting block and that the remaining joins were also to be butted!  I'm buying a new battery for my camera this morning and will post pics of that area for comparison, Manish  I'll add pics of the tailpost as well.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 29, 2011, 02:01:09 PM
The next task was to glue in the wing retaining fixtures. These are epoxy glass material.
There are three pictures, the front one, rear and the inside fuse view of the rear fixing


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on October 29, 2011, 05:24:10 PM
Manish
Good going, watching this with gr8 interest


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 29, 2011, 06:39:18 PM
The next job was to prepare the cabane struts. These are from Spruce which are cut to size in length and width from correct size wood stock and the hole for carbon locating/retaining pegs are pre-drilled.
Ends of these struts have to be carefully slit to take the metal fittings. The pre drilled holes in the wood ensure that correct amount of metal fittings protrude above the wood to ensure correct length all around.
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 29, 2011, 06:51:09 PM
Once the struts are bolted in place, the upper, epoxy glass tank sides could be fitted and it was time to fish out the aero-foiled cabane wires which were sourced from Falcon Models made to correct length. These wires are sourced from http://www.flying-wires.ch/flying-wires/index.html.
The metal fittings supplied with the kit result in very accurate wire fixtures.
   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 29, 2011, 07:00:49 PM
Although the wires were supposed to be of correct length, it was not to be. While the front wires were spot on, the rear one were not. Despite taking up all the slack the wires were still pretty loose. At the end I had to think of alternatives and decided to try and fix up the rear wires at other location, to this affect brass fittings were made. Though the length is now fixed, I would have to make new fittings out of brass so that it anchors at at-least two bolts and does not turn when the wires are tightened.

The entire cabane assembly initially looked frail and was wondering if it was fit for purpose, but once the wires were taut, the whole thing becomes incredibly rigid.

Don, have a question for you. While I noticed that you have twisted the wires to better represent the full size, I am not sure if the wires I have could be twisted. When I had this question for Chris, he says that on full size it is not twisted just aligned to offer least resistance to the air while moving through air


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Rao on October 29, 2011, 08:55:52 PM
a feast for eyes.   (:|~ (:|~ (:|~


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on October 30, 2011, 08:54:03 PM
Manish. I've eventually found time away from earning my living to look at the DH82A again {:)}

Here are some pics which are of the areas under discussion.  You had doubts about the tailpost and it's position. I, too, had a problem with this area. If the tailpost is hard up against the rear of the fuselage the front fixing hole will not line up with the threaded captive nut.

But... If the front fixing lines up there's a gap at between the rear of the fuselage and the tailpost. According to Chris this is correct

Of these four pics the last two are correct...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on October 30, 2011, 09:08:16 PM
Here are some pics of the underside plywood cladding.  Not that the joints are all butted one to another, including the undercarriage support beam. (pics 1&2)

Like you, I have modified the top fitting to the U/C by turning up some ali, rod for a more scale-like appearance. (pic3)

The front fitting for the U/C drag strut is very close to scale. (pic4)



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on October 30, 2011, 09:23:53 PM
Finally, for now Manish, regarding the twist in the cabane rigging.  Chris says that his prototype had none and that the aerofoil section wires are merely positioned fore & aft to present the minimum surface to the airflow with a leather patch to keep the wires from touching.

However, the one I'm modelling does have a twist in the wires but, and it's a big but,  I'm using Mick Reeves flat wire to brace the cabane and twisting was no problem.

Here's acouple of pics. First one of 'PK from the Traplet kit and, secondly, the Falcon kit. 

I hope to keep up with you a little more often than of late. Cheers :hatsoff:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 02, 2011, 11:40:04 PM
Thanks Don for the pictures, those do help a lot.
I have decided to slightly alter the location of the front blind nut which captures the fin base so that the fin post remains within the metal brackets and would enable me to drill holes for the bolt without significantly altering the strength of the fin post.
On the wires I think I would go with without twist, but then would have to search for a full scale which did not have them and then copy the colour scheme and other details from there.
I am sure once finished no one would notice the deviation  ;D

Further query for you. The Falcon models, the tailplane is fixed on two ply seats which are not glued on the edges of spruce longerons but slightly inboard. What would be the reason for that? And how does the empty space from the edges get filled up ?

Also could you recommend me some good online source for ordering fastners in BA sizes. Not only I need some not included in the kit but also replace the ones which have mysteriously disappeared since the kit was opened.

 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on November 03, 2011, 02:08:51 AM
To start at the end of your post, Manish.

AAAh! The disappearing contents. We've all been through that. I frequently telephone suppliers complaining about missings items and subsequently find the thing on the floor at some later date.  I have used EKP for all of my model engineering supplies for a long time now and have never been let down. They are at https://ekpsupplies.com/index.php and may be relied upon.

I assume that you refer to the gap, indicated by my scalpel blade, between the plywood seat and the longeron edge as in the first pic.  If that is the case, pic 2 should help you make the decision to go for true scale and you should cover over with doped nylon.
I hope that helps.

The DH82A at my local airfield has streamlined wires with no twist. I'm told that is the norm. so you could stick with your scheme.

I.too, will be moving the front captive nut fixing to line up with the hole in the for'ard part of the fin.

Goodnight, Manish  :hatsoff:
  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: CT4 on November 03, 2011, 07:03:23 AM
I just found this thread. Great job you are doing, I built a 1/4 scale Tiger Moth 25 years ago from a Pilot kit. I still have it and it still flies. I wanted something more scale. I was tossing up between the Falcon model and the 1/3 Toni Clark model. Judging your comments it seams to be a really complete and scale kit. What motor do you intend to use for this?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 03, 2011, 08:58:59 AM
Thanks Don, those pictures and URL  do clarify a lot.

CT4-  I would be using a laser 150


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on November 03, 2011, 03:26:38 PM
Manish. Here's another shot which may inspire you :giggle:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 04, 2011, 12:00:12 AM
Inspire it does Don, but I think I will stick around with method indicated at the Kit  ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 14, 2011, 12:26:59 AM
Having discovered that the cabane wires (the rear ones ) were a bit too long, and would not take up the slack before bottoming out, I went about fashioning attachment bits out of brass and anchored them elsewhere. Though I was sure that with this arrangement, I will have to modify the throttle servo plate (basically cut few holes for the wires to pass through). After spending some time with a sheet of brass, snips, and some files and drilling all seemed well.
Then it was time to test fit the substantial beech engine bearers and to my dismay I found that the rear cabane wires were in the way because of the alternate location I had come up with :banghead:
There was no way I wanted to play around with the bearers.
Thoughts ranged from ordering a new set of wires, or making them up from windshield wiper inserts. So frustrated was I that I just left everything and got busy with other things non modelling.

Late at night yesterday while trying to sleep, suddenly it struck me like a bolt from the blue. Why was the obvious and simple not obvious to me? Why did I adopt the difficult route when the objective could have been met with a simple solution? Got up from bed and went straight to work table, one wire was fixed before I went to sleep peacefully and I am sure wife now convinced that what ever little sanity was left had eluded me for sure
 
Wait for some pictures and it would be clear what I am saying.
With this solution the wires were attached to the original locations (as indicated at the kit) and all was hunky dory :hatsoff: 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on November 14, 2011, 06:24:55 AM
.. I am sure wife now convinced that what ever little sanity was left had eluded me for sure

For sure, mine thinks the same way, last night she heard some commotion and came with a stick and torch, saw me trying to start the JBA on the giles reaction was "Paagal ho gaya hai"

PS
I am contemplating this kit, but after you maiden


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 14, 2011, 08:56:52 AM
Gusty,
Just go ahead and buy the Tiger if you are contemplating it. There is nothing to go wrong and it is sure to fly beautifully


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on November 14, 2011, 12:59:21 PM
How much did cost you on road


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 14, 2011, 02:02:21 PM
Never added up all the expenses, but my guess is that in the air it would be very near to 80-90 K Indian (considering all the expenses) except the time and labour


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 14, 2011, 02:12:50 PM
Here are the pictures of the aerofoil wire which gave me enough headaches till I figured out how simple it was to size it to required length (within a limit )
If you see the ends are rolled threads and the length of the threads is considerable. The solution was as simple as shortening the threads on both ends so that the wires would fit at the required position and take up all the slack
The best thing about these wires are that the threads are handed i.e left and right hand threads on opposite ends, so when you either open or close the wires by turning them it opens or closes at both ends. Makes life easy   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 14, 2011, 05:42:20 PM
To the question of cost a quick total and conversion of all the packages from Falcon takes you close to 70 K Indian (with a modest postal charges included) but not including customs which could be around 14% of FOB price. Then the engine Laser is around 295 Pound sterling (around 22-23 K Indian). Therefore on a revised estimate the completed airframe and engine together would be around 100 K +
Gosh I never imagined it would cost so much, I could have two 50 cc ARF's in the air with this much


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: RcBazaar on November 14, 2011, 06:00:06 PM
@flyingboxcar... for what ever worth it may be i think its a fantastic build you are doing.. keep up the good work and hope to see vids soon...

sujju


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 19, 2011, 12:04:28 AM
Suggestions on the final livery for the Tiggie are most welcome.
Few things which you should consider while suggesting.
1. Actual scheme on a full size, for which plenty of pictures should be available in public domain.
2. Simple to paint
3. No a scheme in blue or combination of blue colour
 
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on November 19, 2011, 12:11:05 AM
here are some schemes..!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on November 19, 2011, 12:12:02 AM
some more


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: AEROVISHWA on November 19, 2011, 12:13:02 AM
last but not the least.....!!!

select any one and will search and email you plenty of pics..!!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on November 19, 2011, 01:55:41 AM
These pix may help you, Manish, when it comes to the luggage locker. These are of my model 'PK and the whole shebang is dummy. The toggle catches are from lithoplate, the top hinge line is ali tube filed in half and the rivets just below are  - rivets!

I've also attached a pic of the full size A/C luggage locker for reference.

There's also one of the tailplane strut attachment fittings. The version I show here is closer to scale than that on the Falcon plans. I'll post Chris's version of the lower attachment for comparison later.

(Incidently - I used aerofoil section aluminium tube for the struts. The ends are flattened and filed to shape).

Kind regards.
Don


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: CT4 on November 22, 2011, 06:53:31 AM
Sadly VH-ASC has been repainted Red with black cross pattee and flew for a while with the Red Baron joy flights out of Bankstown aerodrome Sydney NSW Australia. Here is a link http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austa2/VH-ASC3.html


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 10, 2011, 12:42:33 AM
I was wondering about how do I go about making the luggage hatch catches for my model. But then I think, if you pray hard God does listen.
I did get an early Christmas gift
Have a look at the picture below and compare it with the picture of the original at the post #115 (look at 3rd picture)
Now to give credit where it is due. These are made by Don. Aren't they fantastic??

Thanks a ton Don for the catches, and the U/c fittings


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 10, 2011, 01:00:28 AM
The tailplane fixing is more or less done. As said earlier I had to relocate the hole on the fuse seat so that all would align. I filled in the original hole with a suitable dia dowel, and re-drilled  fitting in the blind nut.
You can clearly see the original hole location at the attached picture.
The first pic shows the tailplane seats on the fuse
The second one with relocated hole for blind nut/T nut
Tailplane and rudder coming together at leading edge with a 5mm nylon bolt
Next two tailskid metal fittings, the tube will house a piano wire skid


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 10, 2011, 01:03:55 AM
Here are the next two


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 10, 2011, 01:10:52 AM
More or less firmed up the colour scheme as well.
I would be copying G-ANFM
It is not a complicated scheme where lot of masking etc would be required. Does not have the anti spin strakes, and has a metal finish cowl which does open up some possibilities
Have a look here  http://www.flickr.com/photos/39860650@N02/4805208412/lightbox/
or just search for G-ANFM


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 27, 2011, 09:59:12 AM
Got some more done.
Engine bearers mounted, so was the engine plate,
Then the side frames for cowl was glued in and so was the front former. An identical former gets glued in the front cowl piece and whole is bolted together to retain the assembly.
And most importantly the engine was mated to the airframe for first time to check and also plan throttle servo installation


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on December 27, 2011, 05:23:05 PM
Happy New Year to you & yours, Manish.
My wife Heather, bought this kit for my eightieth birthday (yesterday) and I've spent all morning building it!  :thumbsup:
 



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ujjwaana on December 27, 2011, 11:17:06 PM
Don/Manish! you are the Devils of Detail! Such craftsmanship and building is beyond the imagination of most average builder like me, and often serve as inspiration.
For a junkie like me,  the most inspiring shot is that of the Firewall/Engine fitting! Clean, innovative. I have been long thinking of using Glass Epoxy sheet (used in PCBs) at limited places for reinforcement, like Landing gear, wing mount/dowels. Your build pic gives me much of confidence.

Keep up the good work. 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 28, 2011, 08:16:25 AM
Happy Birthday Don!
And that was a sweet gesture on part of your lady. Looks fantastic.
And a very happy new year to you and all fellow aero-modellers in UK. Wish you many more models and safe landings in 2012


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on December 28, 2011, 08:30:56 AM
Happy birthday don, the best birthday gift one can ask for, sujju is bringing falcon models to india, guillows are good too ( in it's class)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 28, 2011, 08:54:33 AM
Some more pictures of the same area
1. The front turtle deck area which would be later covered over with ply. This area also houses the throttle servo
2. Engine area as viewed from bottom
3. General arrangement of the area from front cockpit onwards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 28, 2011, 09:25:16 AM
1. Another shot from front three quarter with the Laser mounted
2. The front ply cladding on the formers (and a definite source of grief for subsequent operations for which I am still to find answers for)
And you can also see the fruits of my sin from previous steps, where the ply ran a bit short whcih had to be made up with some addition. Hope after filling and covering the joint would not show up
3. A pair of neat machined Ali Venturi's which would go on to the model (the photos do not do justice to the original )  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 24, 2012, 11:29:01 PM
Yesterday the as in progress model was made to stand on its own legs {:)}
I proceeded to this step in order to raise the fuse off the work bench so that it is saved of normal dent and dings associated with building tools and sundry items lying around on the table.
Also managed to cover the inter cockpit ply turtle deck. Added the cables which act as anchor for sutton harness and the metal shroud. Pictures are appropriately labelled, so enjoy those and do not look or comment on the state of building table :-[ :-[ :-[   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 24, 2012, 11:47:04 PM
Frankly it's a pain to upload pictures here. Apart from the resizer is there any other easy way out?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2012, 12:07:36 AM
Though the wheels look very oversize my research suggests that  they are very near to scale, including the     Dunlop and tyre size logos. These are from Traplet in UK.
The wheel caps would be painted and fixed on the rim with 5 tiny screws
The wheels are fixed on the struts with 5mm hex bolts the tube strut is tapped appropriately. This I guess is the only part which has metric threads ;D
There are total of 26 bolts/screws which keep the entire U/c assembly together. If you add the 5mm wheel axle it makes it 28 :bow: 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2012, 12:27:17 AM
All  the bare tubing would be given streamline  shape with balsa fairings and shod with litho sheet. But that would be at a later stage. Also one of the links on the  u/c is still to be fitted as I forgot to get some 2 mm bicycle  spokes today :banghead:
Also all these will be taken off prior to covering, all screws cut/filed to appropriate size and then while putting it back everything thread locked.

Then the ply deck and internal balsa structure was fitted.
Compare the full scale picture of the metal shroud and cable anchorage to one on the model...
Pretty close even if it is I saying so

If you would notice the model has cutouts for handholds on the formers. On full scale this has a metal fittings. After log of agonising and experimenting managed to come up with metal fittings which are easy to make and again look the part. Pictures of those coming up next


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: anwar on January 25, 2012, 02:35:09 AM
Frankly it's a pain to upload pictures here. Apart from the resizer is there any other easy way out?

Many options. Here is one... get IrfanView and use it in batch mode :

http://www.thesimplest.net/pc/simplest-way-compress-resize-multiple-pictures-one-go


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: spitfire on January 25, 2012, 03:00:05 AM
I would say use external host like http://imgur.com and paste link of pic in
[img][/img]
tag.
This overcomes restriction of size and better resolution pic can be uploaded. Yes one disadvantage is if external host is down then you can not see the pic.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2012, 09:14:02 AM
Will try out Irfanview and see how it goes


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 26, 2012, 08:02:47 PM
As promised here's the picture for metal fittings for hand hold cutouts on formers.
On one side is the bare cutout and other has Al metal fitting. This would be finally fitted after painting and formers  clad with genuine leather.
Compare this with the full scale fittings pic at previous post. Just some pin heads need to be stuck in after fitting to simulate rivets


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: electricpete on May 31, 2012, 02:30:24 PM
Very nice please keep in Touch
Peter


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Edward on June 09, 2012, 01:01:00 PM
Hi fellow modellers:

My sincere apologise to the thread starter for this posting.

I am very new in this forum. For years it was always my dream to build a 1/4 scale DH82a Tiger Moth thereafter given permission to sit in the driver seat at Swedish Air Force museum located in Linkoping. I also happened to see a very run down Tiger Moth displayed outdoor located in Sungei Besi Air Base in KL, Malaysia.

I came across this forum by accident and now it really fired up my determination to build at least one in my life time. I am seriously considering to purchase the Falcon kit to build mine but I would still like to seek modellers opinion on the various known construction plans or short kits available for the Tiger Moth.

1) Traplet, Duncan Hutson
2) Flair
3) Mike Smart
4) Dennis Byrant
5) Falcon

Although I have no problem in building model aircaft from construction plans but I really hate to bend paino wire and also always has problem in sourcing long pieces of wood. Finally I intend to build this model to take part in our annul National Aeromodelling competition.

Thank you



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on February 25, 2013, 12:46:30 AM
Edward,
If you are intending to compete and don't mind bending some wires, Duncan Hutson plans and  parts from Traplet are your keys.
Falcon is good but the site seems to be down. Else you would also do well if you could source Pilot 1/4 kit and suitably modify the required areas 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: VC on February 25, 2013, 01:15:37 AM
Uh Oh, as if one beauty wasn't enough, we seem to soon have a second one on our hands.............


All the best Edward. Flyingboxcar, I want you to take to the skies before he does. Step on it Sir!

Regards.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: teamnamibia on September 01, 2014, 05:04:17 PM
Was this model ever completed?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: cymaz on November 27, 2014, 12:25:40 PM
It's all gone quiet on the build!

There are a couple of avid watchers in the UK...eager for news.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 28, 2014, 06:51:40 PM
My sincere apologies to all those who had been watching this thread. I do intend to restart the build. Just getting together some serious inspiration and oh yes need to complete those few ARF's so that I could continue to twiddle the sticks on Sunday mornings.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on November 28, 2014, 06:56:09 PM
Waiting sir, waiting :D

BTW, try postimg.org. You can store all your images on the cloud, with a wide variety of options for posting in forums etc. And, you can maintain the resolution too


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 26, 2015, 05:23:42 PM
Have started to dust off the airframe, create some space on the build table and removing rust from numerous steel parts fitted on to airframe. Rust is going to be serious issue with that many mild steel parts, so planning to apply a coat of ferrous oxide as the parts are cleaned, that should prevent rust to some degree.
Have been working on the cowl area, the nose bowl is fitted to the former and sanded. Will post some pictures soon.
Also started work on other glass moulded part of the centre section tank and other tidbits.
The idea is to restart the buiild again and get some air under the wheels as soon as possible     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on June 26, 2015, 06:08:32 PM
Manish

I remember you starting this build on my 40th birthday ! i am 44 now, hopefully before my 45th birthday she should fly, gimme a holler, will come over for the maiden (Gimme some lead time though)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 26, 2015, 06:28:14 PM
Gusty
Hope to complete it before I turn 50  :giggle: :giggle: :giggle:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 26, 2015, 08:42:27 PM
Here are two shots of the cowl being trial fitted. The nose bowl is done and almost final sanded. The side cheeks are taped to top portion to check and trim as required.
The engine was trial fitted to check clearances, and needed to be moved forward approx 4.5mm for the face of prop hub to clear the cowl
Also need to block off the portion below the engine so that all the air entering the intake has no where but to hit the cylinder


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: shobhit17 on June 26, 2015, 10:10:59 PM
Thanks the plane I have loved most..... Say it flying at Jaipur a few years ago...... i.e. the IAF one at the vintage flight


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: tantragna on June 26, 2015, 11:05:59 PM
Wow! Awesome build! Is this a pre-cut kit or done all from the scratch? Btw, my dad got his PPL flying one on these in his haydays! Subscribed.. One more in my wishlist & todo's. Good to see the dust off towards a finish :thumbsup:

Edit: My bad, I saw the tittle and first post now.. Excitement got me all go dumbo (once again?!, hehe) ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rcpilotacro on June 30, 2015, 12:18:22 AM
Though I have already sent this to you, this is for people who are following this thread !! like i said, will make it for maiden, if it is within these two years


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 25, 2015, 10:49:57 PM
Zeroed in on the aircraft to be modeled. My model will be fashioned after N675LF that is currently wearing the pseudo colour scheme of G-ADNV.
Reasons why I choose this particular aircraft to model.
The colour scheme is interesting enough and is easy to achieve.
The full size has tail wheel, that would make my life easy in ground handling, a
The full scale does not have the anti spin strakes so do not need to model that and add weight aft of the CG.
The main wheels do sport the wheel covers with DH logo
The black colour will hide all my sins
Plenty of pictures available for reference.
 
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 25, 2015, 11:06:01 PM
Spent some time making bits and bobs for the cowl.
These included the fixing for hinge pins, and stays for the cowl cheeks. These were fabricated with few odds and ends of some brass sheet, piano wire, and screws all soldered together using soft solder (since not load bearing) and were stuck at convenient locations with a view of being more practical than scale locations (since all these would be hidden inside the cowl).
Here are a few pictures   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 25, 2015, 11:09:54 PM
The top and side pieces are retained by cutting out the hinge ends and fixing it with screws. To remove these three pieces just pull out the hinge pins from both sides and you are done.
Here are some more pictures this time of the stays that I fabricated to keep the cowl cheeks open. The mechanism is scale but not the location I have chosen on my model. 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 25, 2015, 11:12:59 PM
And this is the picture of the full scale aircraft showing the hinge pin fixing and stay arrangement


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on July 25, 2015, 11:43:16 PM
My sadness at not being to afford the Masala apart, somewhere in these threads there's a video of Gusty flying my Tiger Moth in rolling circles...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 25, 2015, 11:54:33 PM
Sir Geoffrey De Haviland would be rolling in his grave at the thought of the Tiger Moth doing rolling circles    :-\


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on July 29, 2015, 11:54:43 PM
(http://)Hi all I don't know the image is in this post or not, if not how on earth do get images on this site. If it is there then it is of my falcon model tiger moth.
Ron


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on July 30, 2015, 12:01:55 AM
Ha it worked. I thought this blog had dried up  a while ago but am glad to see it's still going thanks to a mention by Hamish on Peterf's blog. I'm hoping to maiden it this weekend weather permitting.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 30, 2015, 12:29:32 AM
It works Ron. And I am getting back to the build. Thanks for posting picture of your lovely Tiggie


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on July 30, 2015, 12:39:39 AM
@flyingboxcar,
Sir,
Got curious after exchanging a few PMs with you.
Went to page 1. June 2011.
There's all sorts of fantastic stuff!
Not going to sell my Dynam Tiger Moth anymore.
And maybe start my Goldberg Anniversary Piper Cub, pending since 1996
And i read your correspondence with a potential buyer of one of the books that you are giving away to the raddi wallah...
And the only guys i saw with 3 stars in my J&K tenure were Lutes (Lt. Generals!)
Hope to meet some day.
Regards.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 30, 2015, 02:23:09 PM
Iyer sir those guys have three stars on the vehicle not on their shoulders. My three were on the shoulders  ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 30, 2015, 02:24:32 PM
All the best for the maiden Ron. Happy landings


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on July 30, 2015, 02:52:29 PM
Thank you flyingboxcar, my family have banned me from flying it as I am a rubbish pilot, so a friend will maiden it but I will fly at some stage over the weekend. Sorry Manish I wrote Hamish.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 06, 2015, 07:02:53 PM
Happy to let the forum members know that Ron and his Tiger won the trophy .
Here is a picture of him with the Tiggy and the silver. Sorry Ron had to post this for all to see and appreciate your hard work and accomplishment. Hope you do not mind


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on August 07, 2015, 12:49:04 AM
Thank you flyingboxcar, not at all, I hope it gives people the inspiration to keep up the momentum of their builds. The competition was the annual South eastern BMFA scratch scale build. Fortunately for me DonCoe could not fly his wonderful Bleriot because of the wind. At the moment I have taken the engine out because of an oil leak from the rocker cover gasket, should have done it earlier so now the engine bay is covered in black gunk, heyho.
Keep gluing.
Ron


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 17, 2015, 05:01:28 PM
It's amazing how small little items can eat up so much of time. Have been slowly chipping away on the fuse and things are getting closed.
The fairings on the undercarriage legs are all done, will do some filling and sanding to fair in the wood pieces more cleanly. Made the control cables for elevators, all working nice, worked on the dash, since the chosen F/s has a wooden dash replicating it with ply. In hind sight the Mahogany veneer I had would have been much better in terms of aesthetics, but may be that would go in some other model. Working on closing the luggage compartment, but need to wait for covering to arrive. Initial plan was to use neutral solar tex and then paint it over.
But that is now changed. Have ordered some vintage red for the fuse and silver for the surfaces. That way hopefully it would take less amount of paint to fill the weave.
Will post some pictures ASAP :)       


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on August 17, 2015, 11:11:09 PM
sounds like your getting to the more interesting bits. Yes I went through a huge amount of paint because I used natural solatex but that is because if I had used silver solatex I would have to try and match the colour on all the other bits like underneath and the engine cowl, rib tapes and wing inspection covers.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on August 17, 2015, 11:37:58 PM
@ront2384,
Sir,
Lovely!
Far better than i could manage, after 50 years in this hobby.
Eagerly await flyingboxcar's Maiden...
(While i look through the older posts in this thread...)
Regards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 18, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
Thanks Ron, that confirms my assumption that natural fabric would have taken more paint.
I would use vintage red on fuse and silver on all flying surfaces. The fuse has black as well and I am assuming that black paint should cover well over the red Solartex. I would also use silver paint to paint over the flying surfaces and rest of the fuse with red or black as appropriate so that there is a degree of fill on the weave and also grime proofing, plus the biggest advantage would be to seal all the edges.
As for tapes, inspection covers etc, I have procured these from MRM but all these are in Vintage Solartex which when painted may stand out, (pity MRM do not do other colours unless you send them the material) hence I have been toying with idea of ordering from pinkit who do the tapes and inspection covers in various colours.
Some tapes in red, and rest in silver plus the inspection patches in silver should do the job.

Did you use rings under the inspection patches? How did you cut them and what material?  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 03, 2015, 03:15:19 PM
Another bit done on the Tiggy. Hopefully that would keep my and readers of this thread interest alive.
The first bit of covering has gone on the airframe. Since the tail feather were complete, I covered them up with silver solartex. These are now sealed in poly bags and kept away from build area to avoid any damage. Awaiting some silver pinked edge and perimeter tapes, that would enable me to apply stitching and pinked tapes on the all  the ribs and then the perimeter tape all around.
Here are some pictures.
If you would notice the Fin even has torn Egyptian tape wrapped around the fin post  ;D  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 03, 2015, 03:24:13 PM
The undercarriage fairing etc were completed a bit earlier, here you can see the main leg has fairing covered with litho sheet and the remaining struts are faired with balsa and attached using Gorilla glue. The next task is to apply some clear lacquer to seal the wood and then some primer, give it all a good sand ready to receive paint  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 03, 2015, 03:26:32 PM
Also to keep my own interest alive worked some on the instrument panel, work is still in progress. Also added is a shot of full size panel for comparision


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 03, 2015, 03:29:58 PM
Since the piano hinge needed to be glued on to the luggage hatch door, I needed to cover it and then glue on the hinge. Added  few screws for security but only to realize the full size I am modelling does not show any, These would be later removed and the voids covered over with perimeter tape. Yes that is the shade of red that is going on the model 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 03, 2015, 03:34:45 PM
Here is a picture of the control cable runs for the elevator. The link rod is from 1/8 brass rod that was filed flat at ends, drilled and all sharp edges and burrs removed. Following the full size practice the cable is also scale (1/32, 7x7 strands steel and). Had also procured some thimbles thinking they might be fit for the purpose, but alas they were too big so omitted.



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 03, 2015, 03:46:22 PM
Then there was this cowl cheek catches that had me bugging for some time. The plan calls for simple and working catches made with some 2mm threaded rod bent appropriately, washers, a spring and a 2mm nylock nut. I made these they worked good but did not look like the real ones, unless you squinted and looked at from some 12 yards.
Long story short, did few variations and here is how it all evolved, from bottom to top, the one as per plan, the next one was made with bent 2mm brass rod silver soldered on the 3/32 brass tube, a hole drilled to take a cotter pin, the third one was again bent brass rod, and a 2mm threaded rod silver soldered, and then finally the kind I was looking for, material is same but instead of overlapping the threaded rod I just butt soldered it. Silver solder is plenty strong. The final piece just needs a bit of cleaning and polishing up with 1000 grit wet and dry         


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 07, 2015, 06:41:48 PM
And here is the Fin and Rudder from the full scale for comparison. Guess once the stitches and tapes are added on the model, it should be pretty convincingly close to the full scale


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 09, 2015, 03:53:05 PM
Miss Barbie came to inspect the cockpit comfort today early morning. She had few valuable suggestions which would be duly incorporated, but she was also told that she is too dainty for such a large airplane and due to safety reasons she could not be allowed to get airborne.

On a serious note, on request of my darling daughter the Barbie was allowed to sit in the front seat and survey the surroundings ;D   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 17, 2015, 09:51:48 PM
Made the joysticks today. A bit of Ali tube, some spring, suitable washers, thread and heat shrink all put together and mounted on a ply disc. The disc can be glued on the cockpit floor and the spring will give movement to the sticks in any axis. Once glued the base of the sticks would be clad in leather gaiters.
There are two pictures of the full scale to illustrate the joy stick in the full scale. Compare for yourself

 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 17, 2015, 09:53:30 PM
Also fixed the front seat to the frame and painted the entire thing interior green with Humbrol 78 Enamel. Once dry a bit of rubbing off to ensure that the whole assembly did not look freshly painted. Areas rubbed were the ones that would see normal wear. Next would be to sew up some cushions.
The seats are fixed with two screws on to the blocks glued on to the tunnel side frames. The pilot can be glued or screwed on to the seat and then the seat screwed on to the blocks.    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 17, 2015, 09:59:40 PM
An interesting fact that I learned about the front seat frame was the frame was merely there to prevent the cold draught getting to the rear cockpit. Presumably the student pilot was destined to suffer the cold draught but not the instructor  ;D

The tank was all fixed up complete with brackets etc. Except for the half round beading that would go around the perimeter.
The tank is fixed to the center frame with two ply brackets on the rear and the four bolts that are fixed on to the tank floor get captured by the wooden filler with nuts    

Here are some pictures of the tank, the filler and how it all goes in all together. Also there is a picture of the full scale to compare the  arrangement on the model vis a vis the full scale. Very scale like I must say    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 17, 2015, 10:03:14 PM
Pictures continued


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 17, 2015, 10:04:36 PM
And the full scale arrangement


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 27, 2015, 12:13:55 PM
Since the fuse is structurally complete, and the scale details could be added progressively,  I wanted to start on the wings, got out the parts and laid them out on the build table over the plans only to realize I have run into issues.

The rear spruce spar is double the size. Instead of 1/4 x 3/8 the supplied spars are 1/2 x 3/8. Similarly the curved balsa pieces towards the wing root are 1/4 instead of 1/8 indicated on the plans.

While the blasa pieces were replicated from left over wood from 1/8 rib sheets, not having a table saw has stalled the build for now. A fellow flyer does have a table saw. Now planning to visit him and split the spruce spars to required size.     


Title: Re:
Post by: sanjayrai55 on October 27, 2015, 08:39:20 PM
Maybe the manufacturer upgraded the structure for strength, but did not do so for the drawing?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on October 27, 2015, 08:49:02 PM
Wow, valid point to consider before you chop the spars, flyingboxcar sir.
Regards.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 27, 2015, 08:56:15 PM
No that is not the case, the rear spar is 3/8 x 1/4 and so is the slot in the rib. Same dimension on the plans as well and on multiple sheets.
Will post a picture or two, that should make it clear perhaps


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 07:39:42 PM
So to clear the confusion, here are some pictures of what I meant when I said the wood was over size
You would see the annotation on the plan, and observe the size of the spruce spar against a ruler. You can also see the cut out in the rib (third picture)
This was all notice while carrying out a dry run for the wing assembly. In this case upper port wing.  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 07:41:04 PM
And one more of the other dimension on the spar


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 07:48:41 PM
Anyway, had to find a solution for this and a fellow flyer with a table saw saw that the wood was split in the required size in few minutes on Saturday evening.
So now I have 4 spars of required size 3/8 x 1/4 and another 4 spruce stock of 5/32 x 3/8 which can be used elsewhere per need.
Back to the building table and out with the  glue bottle.
Enjoy the pictures and ask questions if you want to


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 07:52:33 PM
Another issue that I had pointed out was about the mismatch in the TE doublers indicated on the plan and supplied size. I had cut out from scrap wood doublers of indicated size but apparently the plan annotation is wrong and the doublers need to be 1/4 that taper from full depth to rib TE height. So the kit supplied pieces were used.
Some more pictures of the wing construction, especially the metal fittings towards the root and the compression struts (a la full scale)                             


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 07:54:45 PM
Some more pictures


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 07:56:19 PM
Here are the pictures of the TE doublers as indicated on the plan and as supplied. Supplied parts are correct


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 08:01:50 PM
The oil tank  mount as supplied was 1/4    balsa, and when fixed in place and the dummy oil tank mounted there was no way the left cowl cheek would close. The issue was discussed with other builders of the same kit in UK and a solution was implemented, which meant taking out the tank mount, replacing that with a very thin ply piece and feathering in the side stringer to be flush.
Meanwhile I had also sent a query to the designer, who responded that the mount was full depth at the rear where the 1/8 x 1/4 stringer was flush and the mount tapered to almost nothing towards the front.
This meant some surgery again. So it was back with the original mount, duly sanded down to a taper, and a short piece of 1/8 x 1/4 stringer was spliced on the side stringer to bring it back to it's original size                   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 08:04:09 PM
And while I was addressing the oil tank also mounted the venturi on both side, though shiny now, these would get painted over per the A/c I am modelling
So by today evening one wing is almost complete, since the spars, TE, LE etc are spruce I did not want to use cyano as Spruce does not take very well to cyano. Wood glue and aliphatic glue was used through out, with the down side that the operations take longer and you can watch glue dry :giggle:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on November 01, 2015, 09:44:59 PM
Re spar thickness
Perhaps you could check with the designer which one is later:
Spar thickness or rib cutouts.
You've probably already done so...
Regards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 10:15:02 PM
Sorry did not understand what you are conveying Iyer sir


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on November 01, 2015, 11:03:57 PM
If the thicker spars were a later development, then the rib cut outs are outmoded and need enlarging.
Else if rib cutouts are correct, spar needs downsizing.
Sorry, irrelevant now. Didn't see your morning post about having split the spar...
Regards.



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 01, 2015, 11:41:08 PM
Ok, the cutouts are correct. The spars were oversized. Situation has been remedied and wings in progress. Second top wing starting tomorrow


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ujjwaana on November 02, 2015, 01:19:47 PM
Wow!! that's a Marathon run in Builds!! better late than messed.... all the best Captain !


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 02, 2015, 01:49:11 PM
Ha ha June 2011 to perhaps early 2016 is sure a long Marathon.
On the wing it took some time to understand and work out the procedures. The other three should be quicker.
Also checked the wing against the centre section seems all fine till now. No major cock ups and that is what is worrying me


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 03, 2015, 07:04:52 PM
Some more progress, started on the top right wing. Sized up the spars, measured four times, cut and drilled once  8-)
All the ironmongery is trial fitted, these will be taken off for build and once the frame is dry on the building board, reattached with all the nuts tightened with thread lock. We do not want them to come loose once covered up

The two end fittings that can be seen with holes are the attachment points for the wing. The wing attaches to the cabane centre section with just 2 6 BA bolts
   
Tonight will be dedicated to pinning and gluing all the wooden parts together to make it look like a wing     ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: girishsarwal on November 04, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
Coming up well capt.,  :salute:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 04, 2015, 07:57:18 PM
Thanks Girish.

Between yester-night and today morning the second wing is almost done except for some minor jobs left to complete the root/tips and give the structure a good sand down to ensure all is smooth and as desired.

1. The basic structure assembled, glued, pinned and left to dry overnight.

2. The epoxy glass drilling templates provided for the holes that go in on the two spars. These holes will take the bolts/threaded rod for the interplane struts and other metal fittings to which the flying wires and incidence wires would be attached. Makes the job of placing all holes easy. The spars will be fitted with suitable doublers to increase thickness and spruce pads over and under to bring the thickness to the level of ribs so that the metal fittings have enough hard surface to rest on and also ensure that when the nuts are tightened the structure takes the load . Will take another pic and show how it all goes together   

3.  The root trailing edge depicting splicing of spruce TE to ply TE. The ply piece will have the curved 1/4 balsa pieces glued over and under and these pieces would also overlap the splice joint to make it all nice and strong. The balsa pieces have been roughly planed before gluing. Final shaping once fixed and glue has dried

4. The riblets for top surface all ready for gluing. The riblets for under surface would be glued once the structure is lifted off the board.

5. Riblets all glued up and left to dry till tonight         


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 04, 2015, 07:58:57 PM
Posting pictures in batches as even four good quality pictures do not get uploaded and throw up an error message


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 04, 2015, 08:00:08 PM
And the last one for today.
One would notice the empty bay (for riblets) these are currently left out as the bay will be fitted with spruce spar doublers post which the riblets will go on in. On the previous wing, I need to cut these off as doublers are yet to be fitted. Did I not say I was worried that I did not screw up somewhere  8-)   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on November 04, 2015, 10:12:41 PM
Sir,
This reminds me of when i went to Shuttleworth (20 yrs ago),
And the standard was so much above my head,
That the only guy i dared to speak to,
Was the one wearing a T shirt that said
"I love Mills .75"
Some day maybe i'll be there again,
And seeing a Tiger Moth, wonder,
Didn't i see this build on RCI?
You'll be there, i'm sure...
Regards.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 04, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
If you want to watch DH Moths the place to be is the annual Moth rally in UK. Maybe some day I would :)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 16, 2015, 06:58:20 PM
With few domestic chores and the incessant inclement weather work on the model has kind of slowed down. As indicated earlier it is always the smaller jobs on the build that take most time.
So both the upper wings almost done (except for final sanding), and checked for fit with the cabane attachment  these were set aside and work started on right lower wing.
Before starting the spars have to be prepared and it is classic case of measure twice and cut/drill once and then pray things have not gone wrong. What with the rake angle on the spar root and root rib (that would dictate the sweep and dihedral). The holes drilled need to be true so that all the ironmongery goes on without issues and when the time comes to attach the wings to the fuse no issues are encountered. A drill press and reliance on the supplied jigs and templates is a must.
Here are few shots of the right lower wing all framed up.      
1. The wing framed up and minus the aileron
2. Wing framed up with aileron lined up.
3. Supplied jigs for drilling holes for interplane struts and associated metal fittings. Note the gap between the wing trailing edge and the aileron  leading edge. Yes that is how it is, the gap would get covered with fabric covering    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on November 19, 2015, 07:52:55 PM
Manish,

Wow, I had missed that you were so active again, I knew you had asked questions on my build log. I thought I had notifications set up from your build log but I did not so I was not aware how much more you have completed recently. Hats off to you.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 20, 2015, 04:25:29 PM
Hello Peter, good to see you are checking the thread here. Loss of our regular flying field has been a blessing in disguise. The time has been utilized to make progress on the Moth. 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 23, 2015, 04:43:38 PM
Here are some pictures of the wing root fittings for the lower wing halves. The one that projects out from the rear spar would be anchoring to the fuse, while the one projecting upwards from the front spar would anchor the flying wires that connect from here to the hard points under the upper wing


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 23, 2015, 04:53:32 PM
The basic structure of the both the lower wings is done, will post pictures of the other wing soon.
While working on the wings, always had this question at back of my mind if the wings would mate up effortlessly with the fuse fittings (both top and bottom)? While the top wings were checked and did align with a bit of fiddling around, decided to check the fit of lower wings today. There is a epoxy board /G10 piece of fitting that gets glued on top of the front spar, projects through the root rib and mates with similar fitting that is fixed to the fuse bottom rail.
The fuse rail fittings(both fore and aft) were glued in long back during the fuse build.
Once the rear metal fitting was attached to the rear spar on the lower wing, I offered the left wing to the fuse and matched the rear fittings with an 8 BA screw through the hole, only to notice that the front epoxy fittings do not line up. The piece that goes on to the wing even when canted is off centre from the fuse fitting hole. In the picture you can see a pin slid through the holes. Will have to think through a solution for this issue before I work further on the wings.
Meanwhile will start working on the interplane struts that need 4 BA studding epoxied in place, laminated with balsa piece and then the individual pieces shaped to required profile.       


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 23, 2015, 07:11:51 PM
From the above two pictures it is evident that even to align the two epoxy board fittings for the 1/16 pin the fitting on the wing has to be canted so much. This is when the rear fittings are aligned. I think I will fabricate a new fitting for the wing from the off-cuts of epoxy boards and re-drill the hole to match.
Here are two more pictures showing the rear attachment lined up with a 6 BA screw through and pin on the front fittings    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on November 23, 2015, 11:19:07 PM
Hi are you sure you have the wing epoxy fittings the correct way round, as they are angled. Have a look at Peterf's post. Why are all your metal fittings a funny colour, just curious. What happened to your regular flying site. The build is moving along well keep it up.
Ron


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 24, 2015, 07:15:53 PM
Ron,
I have noticed that the epoxy fittings are angled. Which ever way I try they are a bit off. Not much, so I think I will fettle the slot in the rib a bit and it should fit. I will also pin the fittings with carbon pegs drilled through to the main spar just to ensure that there is no way the fitting can pull out.

Ahh! the metal fittings being funny colour..That's because of Iron Oxide or in plain language 'Rust'. Fruits of being hot and humid climate with the metal fittings sitting in the box doing nothing. All of these will get polished with fine emery paper before paint. See the picture below. The ones polished, are they right colour?

We used to fly from an old WWII airfield that is still owned by the Air Force and though not fit for full scale aviation it is used for training drivers. We had permission to use the airfield but then some one in charge decided not to let us for reasons best known to them. :'(


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on November 25, 2015, 12:02:50 AM
Huh I did not want mention the rust word, I wonder which is worse, cold and wet or hot and humid. With the dihedral I used a long piece of u shaped metal used for wall brackets placed under the fus with a bit of packing then measured the wing tips off that, you do not need to worry about the top wings as they will be sorted by the inter plane struts you need to get this right to get the angles of the studs in the ends of the struts. I epoxied them in situ with a bit of polythene between strut and wing.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 25, 2015, 02:39:11 PM
In order to accelerate a chemical reaction (read rust formation here) you always add heat. So hot and humid is always worse than cold and wet/damp. In fact the colder it is the less humid it would be. So you are better placed in this respect.

Thanks for the tips on the struts and the 4 BA studding. I was planning to epoxy the studding on to the struts over the plans, but will now do that in situ.     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on November 25, 2015, 03:22:27 PM
One of the major factors in accelerated rusting is partial exclusion of Oxygen. These fittings were probably in a box.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: ront2384 on November 25, 2015, 08:54:32 PM
Hi Manish I've just remembered how I measured the dihedral and it was basically how Steve said in his instructions. I used a 24inch folding steel rule and set it to 4.5 degrees put it under the fus and then lined up with the leading edge, simple. Apologies for my previous explanation, that was how I've done other planes.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 25, 2015, 10:02:50 PM
Thank you Ron. I would have asked you the the measurements. Need to go refer those instructions again. I will probably use the inclinometer app on phone to set the angle. :)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 26, 2015, 05:33:19 PM
Now this has nothing to do with the build progressing. But has everything to do with how to make use of what you have  ;D
With all the CNC cut ribs and riblets out from the balsa sheets I had a pile of nice quality 1/8 balsa sheet lying in the scrap bin. With some head scratching going on with the wing fixing, and just to keep my hands and mind occupied, I fished out my MA Balsa stripper, and cut out about 80 odd 24" long 1/8 square sticks from the scrap.
Will serve me well in some stick and tissue type constructions  ;D
   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 30, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
Not much achieved in terms of show and tell this weekend, but what was completed is very crucial and important step. The lower wing alignment means that three components need to align perfectly, the front epoxy fittings that has a tapped fitting on the fuse side, the rear metal and epoxy fitting and thirdly the piano wire dowel that is fixed to the wing main spar and slides in to corresponding hole just under the front epoxy fitting on the fuselage. And all this while the wing has a dihedral of precise 4.5 degrees.
Get this step right on each side and the upper wings by virtue of the interplane struts would come out correct (at least that is how it is supposed to be  ;D )
So using the clinometer app on phone all the wing fittings were aligned with dihedral at 4.5 degree. Made a simple jig to support the wing while doing this operation. The jig would also come in handy while assembling the  wings on the field.     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 30, 2015, 05:01:58 PM
The jig is a simple affair with the top matching the underside of the wing ribs and legs that are fixed with plastic bolts and wing nuts. This arrangement helps in easy adjustment of the height of the jig to get the required dihedral angle. Will post a pic of the jig soon.
The jig can be partially seen in one of the pictures (the leg with clips). This was when the jig was yet to be fully assembled and all glue joints yet to dry  ;D   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 17, 2015, 06:20:43 PM
OMG I suddenly have come across these small figures of zero. Literally hundereds of them. And they are supposed to go on to the Tiger Moth.
Please identify the purpose. If you do, you get one zero posted to you free of cost if you pay the postage  ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 18, 2015, 11:21:28 PM
No takers for that precious offer? Come on guys it is free 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on December 18, 2015, 11:36:46 PM
Too tough!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: bmblb on December 19, 2015, 10:27:58 PM
...flyingboxcar.....missed out on the offer bit....

...nevertheless, I have reason to believe you are possessed !!!  ;D

 superb stuff ! :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on December 19, 2015, 11:28:57 PM
Captain,
You do have admirers who are too polite to clog up your build thread...
Regards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 21, 2015, 06:14:50 PM
bmblb, yes that's the right word. I am sure possessed by anything that has a DH prefix to it. And the 82 being on top of the list.

Now since there have been no serious takers for the offer, the said offer is withdrawn. If any one still wants to own a piece of that cardboard cut in oval shape, I will sell each for 5 paise, if I have any left over after they are fixed on the model.

For all those who are wondering what these are for, the answer lies in the picture attached


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 21, 2015, 06:19:44 PM
These are drain eyelets on a fabric covered airframe (especially the flying surfaces) giving a route for condensed moisture to escape.
These are attached on the under-surface and were made of fiber. On the model these are cut from thin card stock and will be glued in scale location and a hole with a hot wire poked through to create the opening that would also allow the model structure to breathe as in full scale, not mandatory but would be scale       


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 24, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Tried some simulated rib stitching on the under surface of the tail plane and what a massive disappointment.
I chose to simulate the rib stitches via the PVA glue route, marked the location of each rib stitch at 1/2" (full size spacing on tail is 2") and using a toothpick tried to lay a tiny line of glue on the rib. Once this was done the whole was left to dry.
Making sure the glue was dry, today ironed on few strips of pinked rib tapes to see how it would come out.
And what a disappointment  :banghead:
Those stitches are far too obvious and look more like big domed rivets that subtle stitching. :'(
Will have to rip off the tapes, and take off all the glue drops (rag dipped in hot water with some patience should do the trick)
The first picture is of the dried out glue drops on the rib on one side.
The other two pictures are of the pinked tapes ironed over the glue lines        


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on December 24, 2015, 07:47:39 PM
Captain: what exactly is "Tape Pinking?"


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 24, 2015, 08:10:41 PM
Pinked tapes are the straight tapes you see with serrated edges. The zig zag or serrated edges are called as pinks.
While covering an aircraft with fabric (or even while cutting any fabric) the fabric is cut with scissors that give zig zag edges. This prevents the edges from fraying.
On aircraft, you will find that the on the flying surfaces after the covering has been applied, a strip of reinforcing tape is applied over the ribs, then the ribs are stitched (or riveted/screwed etc) and then a layer of of finishing tapes applied to cover the stitches. These finishing tapes will be have pinked edges and commonly referred as Pinked tapes. The other kind of tape is just ripped off the fabric and is called Egyptian tape. If you guessed that the name comes from Egyptian mummies you are right {:)}

Then there are  perimeter tapes that are applied on perimeter of all surfaces as reinforcement. These are double the width of flying surface tapes. For example the rib tapes on Tiger Moth are 2" and Perimeter tapes are 4" in full size, giving 1/2" and 1" sizes for 1/4 scale

Hope that helped  :)     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 28, 2015, 04:31:28 PM
Was contemplating to rip off the ironed on tapes and redo those massive stitches. But being the scrooge I am, decided to leave them on to remind me of my follies. But wiped off the rest of the glue lines with a rag soaked in hot water and redid the simulated stiches.
 
Bit of experiment on the size of wet glue line and I am much more satisfied. Did the complete under surface of the tail plane and ironed on the tapes. On the upper surface yet to lay the glue lines.

Similarly finished the simulated stitches on one side of the rudder and the entire fin . While the rudder and tail are yet to be completely finished, stitching, rib tapes and perimeter tapes on the fin are done. Next would be to glue on the inspection rings and patches and that would complete all the embellishments as far the fin is concerned and ready to receive a coat of silver paint.
Here are some pictures of the fin complete with stitches, pinked rib and perimeter tapes
    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 29, 2015, 05:12:56 PM
The next embellishment on the fin was to put on the inspection rings and patches. I had got some quantity laser cut in thin styrene and also in thin card. The styrene one seemed to be bit thicker and fearing that it may not handle the iron temprature well, decided to use the card ones.

The two inspection rings were glued on the covering in approximate scale location (Picture 1), allowed to dry and then a patch of solartex was ironed over the ring. But the effect was hideous. The ring was quite thick and stood out like a sore thumb. Picture 2 should tell the tale. The bare offending ring can be seen on top still uncovered

Not happy, the only course of action was adopted, rip off the two rings and decided to go DIY route on the rings. I needed thinner material to cut the rings from and, a just landed A4 brown envelope seemed suitable. Out with the Olfa circle cutter and got some nice thin rings (Pictures 3 and 4).

      


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 29, 2015, 05:22:31 PM
The new cut rings were glued, allowed to dry and then the patches ironed on. The effect was much better and hence the other ring and patch was completed as well.
Picture 1 shows the new rings glued on, the card ring is placed besides the new ring for comparison.

On to rudder and the rib tapes were glued on the simulated stitches, and perimeter tapes applied all around except for the trailing edge. Picture 2 and 3 shows the almost complete fin and rudder. Do note that the inspection rings and patches are applied on only one side  ;D    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on December 29, 2015, 05:29:52 PM
Next task, complete the simulated stitching, tapes, rings etc for the stabilizer. And open up the covering from the elevators. Yes the elevators need to be shod of covering, and reworked as they have warped horribly after they were covered. Plan is to modify the structure to resist warping and recover   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 06, 2016, 09:28:07 AM
Here are few pictures of the simulated stitches being applied.
Lay a length of tape along the rib, marked with the appropriate distance marking (in this case 1/2" corresponding to 2" of full scale) and with that ever so useful toothpick lay a tiny line of glue along the markings, pull off the tape, go to next rib and so on and so forth. Then let it dry out overnight. Presto! the stitches are done.
The last picture is of the tail group (less the elevators) that have been completed with stitches, rib and perimeter tapes. The perimeter tapes on the rudder trailing edge actually spoiled the nice curved edges I had been able to achieve with the covering.    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on January 20, 2016, 04:12:06 AM
Coming along nicely, I keep looking in from time to time. A pity to hear about the warping of the elevators, always a trouble with these light open structures. Hope you manage to sort it OK. My build has stalled as I have had a few other things to do along with assembling a new ARTF 3.0m electric glider. Only trouble is it is the wrong time of the year to be looking for thermals in the UK as we have just had our first snow of the winter this past few days.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2016, 08:34:54 PM
Hi Peter, always good to hear from you and Trevor and exchange notes on the build. What glider is that you are on to? I have a 3.5 Masala in box that I am itching to get at, but resisting the temptation so as not to further delay work on the Tiger Moth.
Work on my Tiger is currently stopped due to various reasons, will get back to it ASAP.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on January 25, 2016, 11:07:16 PM
Gracia from Topmodel cz. Ready to maiden when the wind reduces.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 26, 2016, 12:15:31 AM
Good choice. I was contemplating it post demise of my Masala 1 ;)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 24, 2016, 03:20:21 PM
The plan depicts conventional aileron actuation through a thin wing servo that is side mounted and the arm sticking out. Decide to deviate from the plans and was toying up with ideas to replicate a scale aileron operation.
The idea I had was to operate a circular disc (like the full size) from the same side mounted thin wing servo.
Got two suitable size discs designed and 3D printed in metal and the bushing in nylon.
Here are few pictures
1. The full size aileron actuation mechanism box
2. The 3D printed discs with crank and bushing
3. With the bushing and disc separate  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 24, 2016, 03:36:07 PM
Here are the pictures of the the disc installed with the servo on to the wing. All connections are ball link to minimize any slop
1. The general layout as seen from bottom of the wing
2. Servo arm to disc crank connection
3. Disc to aileron horn connection
4. Another view of servo arm to crank connection


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 24, 2016, 03:42:55 PM
This arrangement results in throws that are roughly 7/8 inch each side. While that is fine (mmore than required) with the down travel the up travel has to be minimum 1 inch and I want more so that I do not have to use 140% throws on Tx program.
In the pictures you can see a steel rule clamped to to the TE of the wing with the 1 inch mark coinciding with the TE. The aileron trailing edge has an arrow mark to easily identify the movement.
1. Aileron on neutral
2. Down travel
3. Up travel 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 24, 2016, 03:55:04 PM
So not being happy with that, I will try another idea that has been borrowed from this build loghttp://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/plan-scratch-builds/dennis-bryant-15th-scale-tiger-moth/160/ (http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/plan-scratch-builds/dennis-bryant-15th-scale-tiger-moth/160/)
I intend to use the same servo to drive two gear wheels, where the larger 50 teeth wheel would be connected to the servo and this large wheel will drive a smaller 20 tooth wheel, that would be fixed on to the disc.
From what I gather the larger, when able to move 1 tooth would move the smaller one 2.5 teeth. Which means if I am able to rotate the large wheel by 3 teeth I get 7.5 teeth movement on smaller one and that equates to 135 degrees of travel on the disc. Based on how far from the centre of the disc the aileron push rod is connected, I should be able to extract enough throws from this mechanism.
The pictures show the plan and the gear mechanism arrangement as well
In case one sees a fundamental error in the calculation you are welcome to point it out.
So now to wait for the gears              


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Tanmay.mathur on March 24, 2016, 09:17:05 PM
Beautiful, superb,wow and nice like words seem tiny in front of you efforts and level of perfection.
 Mr. Perfectionist seem the right word for you.
And paramount of perfection is for your build.
Still figuring out how and why  person could go to such height ?
Ps. Ignore if sound to silly , dont you think that much detailing will cost in flight characteristics and duration?
Hatsoff


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on March 24, 2016, 09:54:02 PM
Captain sir,
Looks like a full scale build with miniature pics to make it look like a model...
 :hatsoff:
Regards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on March 28, 2016, 01:56:52 AM
Wow, 3D printed metal, it is amazing how the technology is developing, perhaps a smaller radius for the actuation arm on the disc would have given more disc rotation gor a given servo travel. I am only planning on silver soldering a steel disc onto a steel shaft for mine - truly low tech.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: girishsarwal on March 28, 2016, 03:56:28 PM
Coming along very well Capt.  :hatsoff:

bell crank in favor of disc crank?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 28, 2016, 05:06:48 PM
Hi Peter
Yes sometimes one does marvel how technology has progressed. May be we could design and print a true scale flying model in near future :) but I am sure that won't be as much fun as doing it with hands dirty. Your progress on the Moth has been prodding me to get this one moving too.
Given the limited metal working abilities, I settled to get the discs made, yes shorter length should have been perfect. But then the gears should solve the issue. (at least that is what I assume)   

Tanmay
No it will not cost in terms of flight characteristics, in fact it would be more true to the full scale behaviour. Weight penalty is definitely yes. But then scale details do add weight, can not escape that, other than make it as much light as possible.

Iyer sir
Thanks, that is the intent, to replicate the full size as far as practical and within my capabilities.

Girish
Whether bell or disc, as long as the crank cranks the aileron to the required throws, this cranky chap would be happy  ;D   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: prasad.chodankar on March 29, 2016, 04:26:19 AM
@flyingboxcar

I don't see a reason for you to discard the arrangement shown in your reply #244 and add additional gears.

In the link that you have provided below, a hint to the solution is shown in DK's Reply #183
So not being happy with that, I will try another idea that has been borrowed from this build loghttp://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/plan-scratch-builds/dennis-bryant-15th-scale-tiger-moth/160/ (http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/plan-scratch-builds/dennis-bryant-15th-scale-tiger-moth/160/)

You just need to change the position where the pushrod is attached............see the attached picture......
Hope it gives you the unequal throw that you require.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: girishsarwal on March 29, 2016, 11:09:53 AM
Haha captain, we're indeed a bunch of cranky gents. Almost all of us.

moment arm of the servo side on the disc is greater than moment arm of the aileron linkage, causing a reduction in throw. maybe flip the disc, and swap the control linkages? Hmmm, you may have to move servos! :(


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 29, 2016, 01:05:53 PM
Prasad
Will try and see if I can drill a new hole on the disc and attach the aileron push rod. That metal disc is one tough material to drill. The order for gear sets is already in order so will wait to see which solution works best  

Girish
The disc location is scale so can not change that.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 29, 2016, 03:56:58 PM
Gearing option for the ailerons turned out not satisfactory. I was either getting too tight a mesh or sloppy. So that idea was binned too and help requested from another builder of the same model overseas. Will post a picture or two (or three or four if folks want ). But this would also mean opening up the bottom ply sheeting on the fuse and also some surgery to the control tunnel too to install a servo there. But the up side of all this is going to be that the mechanism for aileron operation would be very very near to scale  :thumbsup:.  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 29, 2016, 04:04:59 PM
Meanwhile also outourced design and cutting of some scale horns and windshield frames and brackets. I had contacted Pline last year and had given the dimensions etc but guess small orders do not make economical sense. Hmm never mind. Onward with my search. And search and you will find is so true. Money worth spent and results are here to see

1. Just one sheet of 0.4mm brass horns and frame cut with waterjet
2. One pair of elevator horns bent. One pair was bent cold, and the one with multiple hue was annealed prior to bending
3. Third and fourth one set of Rudder horns bent and silver soldered together. Needs cleaning and polishing.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
One more picture of the Brass sheet cut with water jet for the various parts.
The other three pictures are of the aileron activation mechanism. Basically it has pulley on to which runs a metal cable that is operated in closed loop manner by a servo fitted in the fuse. The metal crank with threaded strut is where the aileron pushrod will be attached.
The idea and assembly is by kind courtsey of Peter F from UK who has used the same asssembly on his build of the same model. So big thank you to Peter. The L shaped thingy you see in second picture is the idler assembly for the aileron closed loop      


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2016, 03:40:48 PM
In case some one is interested to see how this assembly works, please do visit the UK forum and see for yourself the fantastic work Peter s doing on his Tiggy
 http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=103321&p=14
A you tube video of the working aileron assembly posted by Peter
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh-jckvRTq0


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on June 30, 2016, 04:40:09 PM
Bit difficult to make out the entire assembly from the video. Bell crank with push-pull?

Anyway, the movement seems perfect and very scale-like  :thumbsup:  Kudos, Captain  :salute:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2016, 05:26:02 PM
Sanjay
That is not my Tiggy, that is a video posted by Peter of his build. The mechanism is same. There is no bell crank. If you visit the build on UK forum you will see a servo operated crank and the idler under the fuse (seen even in the video). A cable (each side) runs from fuse crank through the wing to the pulley mechanism.  The pulley has another crank attached that is in turn affixed to the aileron push rods. The other end of the cable from pulleyes on both wings routes back through the wing to be affixed to the idler. The idler does nothing except keep the loop closed to be called a closed loop    

If you observe the G10 crank under the fuse is doing the pull - pull while the L shaped idler bar just moves to and fro as it is connected in a closed loop

Not sure what your question was about Bell cranks with push pull? Could you shine some light on that?   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2016, 05:31:57 PM
Here is a picture of the full scale Elevator horn just for comparing the ones being put on the model


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 23, 2016, 01:42:16 PM
A visitor dropped in today to inspect and inquire about the progress. On being questioned the bloke stated he is supposed to be flying this Tiggy 8-)
He did look suitably attired for a flight, with boots, leather helmet, googles, harness and the works. He was pretty disappointed to see his mount not yet ready for flight. But on the positive side he did seem happy with the quality thus far.
He has been earnestly assured that his much beloved mount would be given all impetus towards completion and he can air it soon.

The gent took a look around, settled in the cockpit (did say it was a bit cramped) and then went back to the cupboard.

Ohh! on being queried he did say his name as Tiger Terry


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on August 23, 2016, 05:53:40 PM
Looks pretty happy  ;)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 23, 2016, 06:28:11 PM
Looks pretty happy  ;)

Ohh! no, you should have heard him voice his displeasure with the progress.  :o
But then his demeanor changed the moment he saw a camera come out. ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 23, 2016, 06:30:42 PM
In case anyone is interested the pilot was sourced from
http://www.mickreevesmodels.co.uk/~mickreev/Access/accessories.htm


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 03, 2017, 02:44:31 PM
With passage of time the mild steel items have taken a beating in terms of rust. So a fair amount of time was devoted in cleaning up the parts that are not yet mounted or those mounted but could be easily taken off.
These were given a nice sanding with 180 and then 400 grit wet and dry and washed off in acetone to degrease, and dried up. Followed by a coat of silver paint.
Here is a picture of the initial process


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 03, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
While researching the subject, I came across another fact that I have not seen captured by any one anywhere (to my limited knowledge).
This pertains to ingenious way of providing differential throw on elevators on the full scale. Did you know that the elevator horns on top and bottom surfaces are not equal height. Yes they differ. The first indication was when I saw a picture where these appeared unequal and I put it down as optical illusion.
But further research led me to the discovery that they are indeed sized differently. where the top lever is full 15 mm shorter than the bottom one. While the top is 2 13/32 " the bottom is 3".   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 03, 2017, 03:21:09 PM
And in case any one was wondering, the recent times were not just spent de-rusting and researching the subject. Some progress has been made on the construction as well. Here is a list of what has been done on the port wing side
Interplane struts glued together and rough shaped/sanded (all four)
4BA studding glued in the struts ready to be trial fitted (on all four struts)
Metal fittings that will be used in conjugation with the flying, landing and incidence wires were trial fitted.
The above said wires themselves were prepared and tried on
Wing root fitting on the lower port wing finally glued in (after a long breath and a prayer)
And today the port wings were tried on the fuse. Both the wings were attached with the landing wires and interplane struts to the required dihedral of 4.5 degrees on the lower wing and the top wing was automatically rigged to 2.5 degrees. Will have to later fine tune the wire tension and ensure that incidences remain same. Since the construction started today was the first time when the wings were fixed and and trestle support removed. The the entire setup was supporting it's own weight. The other side should now go ahead quicker {:)}
  
 

  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on March 06, 2017, 10:59:21 PM
Hello, Manish. Thank you for the advice that the rcindia forum was up & running again!

I'm glad to see that you're back in harness for this build. By way of encouragement and to keep your juices flowing here's a picture of my 'PK on an evening flight...



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 07, 2017, 02:16:33 PM
That's a lovely and evocative shot of AGPK Don, thanks for popping in and checking the thread


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 28, 2017, 02:01:03 PM
Earlier I had shown and explained the aileron crank mechanism that was very kindly made by Peter in UK. I got around to installing these on to  the wings of my DH 82 and laid out the wires etc through the wing ribs. I will not be using full length plastic tube but merely provide tube bushing at each rib. Did a dry run by pulling the cables by hand at the wing root and the mechanism worked perfect exactly like the full scale.
I have much much more up travel of the aileron now and the down ward travel is just a little and if the cable is pulled any further the aileron starts going back to neutral and full up on one side gives neutral ailerons on the other wing. Just like the full scale.
Here are few pictures  
In fact the picture titled down is more when the push rod has travelled beyond the max down throw and starting to move down to bring the aileron back towards neutral.   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on March 28, 2017, 02:09:50 PM
Brilliant, Manesh. It's looking good  {:)}


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 28, 2017, 02:18:13 PM
Today was also the day when all four wings were mounted on to the fuse and stood on their own without any external supports.
This was done to work on all the flying and landing wires (four each side) and the four incidence wires.
Once the wings were mounted it was also time to check for alignment, dihedral, and incidences.
Setting of dihedral is simplicity itself. These are set on lower wings by adjusting the landing wires so that the main spar is at 4.5 degrees (after the fuselage is set to zero degrees and now acts as datum).
Once the lower wings are at correct dihedral the inter-plane struts ensure that the upper wings are at required 2.5 degrees.
The wires need to be just right not tight else they start distorting the wing structure.
Once all wires are set the wing sides are pretty rigid.
Measurement of sweep back on each side did reveal some difference that would need fettling to ensure  that both sides are equal.
Assembling and checking takes lot of time and I needed to do all this in the hall when folks at home were away  ;D

Here are some pictures of the Tiggy with all her wings


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 28, 2017, 02:21:00 PM
Thanks Don. Good to know I have you watching and can reach out for help if I get stuck.
While there have been some good progress, there is still a lot to be done


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 28, 2017, 02:43:56 PM
Before putting on the metal bits to the wings I had cleaned them off. And these were degreased and given a coat of silver acrylic spray.
For the fittings that are already on the woodwork and difficult or can not be taken down, the plan is to clean them as best as possible and brush a coat of lacquer or epoxy to prevent further oxidation.
Here are a few pictures of the metal parts post the silver paint treatment. At the third picture if you are wondering what is the debri sticking on to the metal plate, that is a layer of tape that was applied on to the metal before the strut end 4 BA studdings were glued in situ. This was done to prevent the metal part being glued on to the strut
And the last picture shows the aileron mechanism mounted on the wing (notice the cables coiled up). The picture also shows the inter-plane struts fixing


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Shashank9230 on March 28, 2017, 02:47:55 PM
Like in detail work👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 25, 2017, 04:04:57 PM
Have been gradually chipping at the Tiggy
For the top wings completed and trail fitted the leading edge slats
Here is a picture of the full scale and the model one.
On the model the slats are moulded from 1/32 ply that was immersed in very hot water and then formed on the wing, allowed to dry for couple of days and then a layer of glass cloth and epoxy added, post which filler was applied and all sanded smooth.
The pic of the full scale slat is in extended/open position, on the model I am making them non functional     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 25, 2017, 04:09:39 PM
In the full scale picture under the wing surface the cover for slat mechanism can also be seen. (And please ignore the ASI under that wing  :giggle:)
So I needed to make the covers for the model. Hence I moulded these out of styrene. Here are two pictures, one of the moulded part on top of the slat and other under the wing, these now need to be trimmed to make the mounting flanges and trial fit them on underside of the wings


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 25, 2017, 04:11:47 PM
After working with all the wood and plastic I fancied some metal bashing so decided to make the Air Speed Indicator that is fitted on the left hand main strut. It is a pretty simple device on the full scale and was easy to make out of some tin sheet and piano wire.
Here is a picture of the full scale equipment
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 25, 2017, 04:14:16 PM
And here are a few pictures of the one for model in exact 1/4 scale of the original (rounded off to lower or higher 0.5mm as appropriate). All that needs done is assemble the parts, paint and paste the scale (that I still need to decide how to do it)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 30, 2017, 09:06:44 PM
Over last couple of days found out how not to activate the aileron in a scale fashion.
Here is a video of the setup where the crank and idler does not return to neutral. Rest assured this has now been fixed (did require ripping the belly sheet and butchering the control tunnel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7QTslbSFKc
Also attached is a picture of full scale to indicate how it was on the full scale


 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on July 01, 2017, 01:17:57 PM
Coming along nicely, Manish! With regard to the servo non-centering, I wonder if your cables are too tight :headscratch: The airspeed indicator is just the ticket {:)}


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 03, 2017, 05:22:18 PM
Good to see that you are there to watch Don :).
I tried tightening and loosening the cables with not much of an improvement, so ultimately scrapped the system, took a scalpel and saw and butchered the control tunnel to install a bigger servo. In the above setup I was using a thin wing servo driving a crank. The current servo has G10 sheet crank bolted to the servo arm and sticks below the fuse  to work as the live arm. The idler remains same and this setup has worked satisfactorily.  I think the earlier setup had some play where the side way slop on the crank was making it to pull to a side and not return to neutral unless it was pulled from other side. Now all I need to do is do some patch work on the control tunnel, paint it back and hide it all under the pilots trousers.
With respect to the the ASI need to print the scale (still do not know how) and if I had a way to calibrate the spring  ;D  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 03, 2017, 05:38:44 PM
Deleted being duplicate post


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 03, 2017, 05:40:14 PM
Another item is out of way, completed and test fitted the long acorns or the wire spreaders. These are made from Ali tube and hard wood dowel, the center dowel piece is slit from both ends to take the crossing flying and landing wires while the outer pieces take the outer wires. The tube and dowels are drilled for 10 BA bolts that pass through and retain the whole assembly together. In the picture you can see one assembled and one opened up to give an idea of construction 
Also attached is picture of full size showing the long acorns installed


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on July 03, 2017, 08:41:30 PM
Is this of any use? (It's from the "Haynes Owners Workshop manual for the DH82A 1931-1945 all marks" -  the one you previously posted).



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 03, 2017, 09:24:11 PM
Thanks Don, it's not the picture but my limited capabilities that is limiting me in reproducing the scale in the required size, will have to find some one to do the photo work and then can print on water transfer decal sheet.
I have the drawings for DH 60 and scaled mine from the same, so scale could also be used (guess except for calibration there would not be much difference and it would look like DH 82)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: doncoe on July 04, 2017, 03:38:36 AM
Let me know the length of the left hand side and I'll see what I have in my collection of photographs.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 04, 2017, 05:16:47 PM
The model had the wings on for almost two weeks and keeping every thing assembled had seriously reduced space in the hobby area. But that was needed as I needed to work on certain areas that required the wings to be on. Any way all that out of way, the flying, landing and incidence wires wire appropriately tagged and labelled, and removed. Similarly the wings were removed and all hardware dismounted the under-cambered portion of the wing was given a coat of Sig Stix it to promote better adhesion (because of under camber the covering will pull away when tautened by shrinking) and then today morning.....

Started covering on the wings

Here are a few pictures of the fuse with wings on and lower wing being covered
  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 04, 2017, 05:19:40 PM
And this one from the bottom
Post covering, need to work on stitching and tapes etc, seriously contemplating doing actual stitching but that would add some serious labour. and then after all that is done bolt all the hardware back on 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 04, 2017, 05:25:30 PM
Will check on the size and let you know Don


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 07, 2017, 01:57:26 PM
The right lower wing is covered, rib stitches and rib tapes applied, and halfway through with perimeter tapes. Just need to glue in the hinges and then cover the huge hinge gap with cloth before the perimeter tapes for TE of wing and LE of ailerons are applied.
Thereafter it is on to application of all the inspection rings and patches and fitting the metal pieces and horns etc back
In the picture you can see that the inspection hatch for aileron cables has been opened up, this will be covered by a metal/ply sheet and fixed with small screws for easy access should the need arise (like the full scale). One may also notice the turnbuckles have been locked with wire (again as in full scale practice)
Pics
1. Top surface
2. Bottom surface
3. Close up of aileron access hatch


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 12, 2017, 05:01:39 PM
Some more progress on the right hand wing set, both are covered, stitches applied, tapes applied, perimeter tapes applied, aileron hinges epoxied in, hinge gap covered with cloth, inspection rings and patches being applied on and then it would be time to reinstall the metal pieces and set this pair aside
The picture below is from few days back, will post more in couple of days showing current state  

And if any one is wondering why the few ribs towards the root on lower wings are left bare without stitches, it is because that area will get covered with the wing walkway, that's another job to be completed when both wings are ready    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on July 17, 2017, 01:53:50 PM
One pair (right) of wings  finally completed and the metal fittings have gone back on. Time to start the other pair, hmm mark every bit, dismantle, cover, stitch, tapes, patches, reinstall the fittings all this once again  :banghead:
1. Showing top of top and bottom planes
2. Showing top of top plane and bottom of bottom plane
3. With the tail feathers
4. Just the rudder


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 16, 2017, 09:08:18 PM
Almost done with covering the wings. That is all four of them.
The tail feathers and wings together consumed good portion of 10m roll of silver Solartex.
Along with about 120 feet of pinked tapes, roughly 40 feet of perimeter tapes, 74 inspection rings and patches,  and 2900 simulated stitches on the flying surfaces  ;D.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 28, 2017, 09:05:30 PM
Well I said "Almost"  :banghead:
And what do we have? More work on recovering. So here is the story

1. While covering the second set it was noticed that the closed loop wire that actuates the aileron mechanism in a scale manner was almost frayed. And I thought, great that I spotted before covering.
2. On closer inspection it was ascertained that the wire that was silver soldered on to a washer had corroded and frayed. The reason most probably was two fold. One was acidic flux not removed completely from soldered item. This acidic remnant along with high humidity accelerated  corrosion. Second the solder itself wicks into the wire, making it rigid and brittle. Now the wire has to sort of curve around the pulley and straighten every time it is operated. So this brittle part can only sustain a finite curving and straightening before it finally gives up.
3. The bottom line, soldered system was replaced with the wire just clamped under a washer ( a fair tight tug and pull test conducted to ascertain that wire will not slip) and when satisfied, the structure was covered up, and all other embellishments applied. Hinges were epoxied in and the wing set aside.
3. The episode with this uncovered wing led me to ponder if there was any corrosion in the wires for the wing that was already covered and may be I failed to notice. So an inspection (pretty difficult) was conducted to realize that wire in this one too was affected. Though not to the degree of the other one. (see pictures 1 and 2)
4. I had now two options, either cut open a single rib bay covering and replace the wire, or remove the entire covering. While the latter meant more work and material wastage the earlier one may leave tell tale marks. So it was decided that I will open the single bay and affect a repair, which if too incongruous will mean that I will pull the entire covering off and redo it.
5. Long story short. The bay was cut open, wire replaced, and the bay recovered. Except for two areas on the perimeter tapes there are no detectable signs of repair and I hope to able to cover these with paint build up.
6. Now comes the fun part. When the wing that had wires replaced prior to covering was checked for aileron operation it was noticed that the mechanism had severe binding at a particular spot that required fair amount of tug to move past. This was not the case before the wing was set aside as complete. An inspection did not reveal anything outwardly, so finally decided that I needed to cut open the covering over the concerned rib bay to investigate. (refer third picture)
7. Once the covering was cut open and the mechanism withdrawn, it was ascertained that a tiny drop of epoxy from the hinge had trickled and dropped down in between the mounting plate (made of G10) and the pulley which has a clearance of  about 0.5mm and leading to binding. If you see the fourth picture you can see the LED shaped dried drop of epoxy at the end of hinge stub from where the drop went into the aileron pulley.
  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 28, 2017, 09:07:00 PM
8. Finally all was set right, not without major effort involved in opening all the screws that were thread locked and the area recovered (refer the last picture).
Think that now I can say the wings are complete (touch wood)    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 08, 2017, 03:07:29 PM
Some more progress towards completion
The control tunnel is now closed and painted over with installation of aileron servo in the tunnel driving a crank to operate the aileron wires and idler
Made up plenty of thimbles from cut down brass tube and completed the elevator and rudder control cable runs
Here are some pictures   
1. Rudder horn with the brass sheet clevises
2. Close up of control cables attached to the clevises with proper thimbles and crimped. The tail of the cable is wound with cotton thread and glue for added security and prevent the cable strands from fraying 
3. Shot of elevator horn with clevis and cables attached
4. Shot of the slider rod where the cable passes over the leading edge of tail plane


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 08, 2017, 03:16:18 PM
Pictures continued
1. Another shot of the elevator horn with cable attached
2. Close up of the slider rod connection towards the trailing edge where a shackle is used to connect the cable. You can see the shackle and thimble up close here
3. The slider assembly as it passes through the eyebolt situated on the leading edge of the tailplane 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 08, 2017, 03:21:46 PM
The rudder cables
1. Clevis towards the tiller bar along with the turnbuckles
2. Another shot of the turnbuckles
2. The guide block is made of G10 material and bolted in place the picture also shows the cable spacers. The spacers were made out of 4 mm ali tube annealed flattened and then crimped with finger and nail pressure in place. These ensure that the wires remain at a preset distance and do not chafe against each other


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 21, 2017, 05:25:08 PM
And here is a picture of the completed ASI along with one from full scale for comparison.
Once fixed on to the front left strut the spring indicator will be bolted on to the scale (currently it is not as could be seen)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on September 21, 2017, 10:40:17 PM
@flyingboxcar,
Unbelievable workmanship and attention to detail.

Assuming VNE of 160mph for the full size, and say 60 for the model, I think that you may even go so far as to calbrate the spring to read 160 when actually doing 60...

Regards

P.S. I'm back. You can PM me the a/c details now.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 21, 2017, 11:48:42 PM
Can not do that 😊
The scale reads max 120 Mph


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 26, 2017, 07:57:12 PM
Stand by for some more pictures soon, the fuselage finally has clothing, and all the peri tapes are done, on with all the outer embellishments now and also applying primer to all the wooden surfaces that do not get covered.
Mind you no glamour shots, just plain old plodding along towards completion. The paint masks for all the registration lettering  and other are winging their way across Atlantic from Callie Graphics.
After lot of deliberations have decided to experiment with water based enamel paint for the painting. Will buy smallest quantity available and see how it goes.

Asian paints has water based enamel . https://www.asianpaints.com/product/royale.royale-luxury-enamel.html
Any one here with any experience on this paint? Don't really want to use any oil based paint as I will be spraying indoor without a proper paint booth.
Maybe I will have to do a top coat of water based PU clear to fuel proof the enamel.
Any help or pointers on         


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on September 27, 2017, 06:31:17 AM
Could always buy a couple of small bottles of Fevicryl acrylic paint from any stationery shop. It's water-soluble water-base, and when dry is waterproof and fuelproof. Can be brushed on, and probably airbrushed too (haven't tried airbrushing so can't confirm)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 27, 2017, 07:57:42 AM
Thanks Sanjay, will see if I get the Fevicryl in the silver I am looking for.
I wanted to use Humbrol enamels but no retailer would ship from overseas and the Indian distribution is handled by Funskool, did not bother to respond to my email or repeated phone calls. Typical Indian way of things.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on September 27, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
Can try Tamiya/Italeri from Hobby King instead of Humbrol

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/fun-cool-stuff-1/plastic-model-kits/glue-paint-finishing.html?p=1

But Fevicryl ought to give you satisfactory results


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 03, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Went and bought some Liquitex silver acrylic and there is just one word for it. "Useless" I also had got some Vallejo Premium silver from Hobby king but it is same shade as Liquitex silver that is dirty white-ish which may glint silver if you squint and imagine it to be silver. Also went out and bought some water based enamel from Asian Paints. The shades of (close to) silver and aluminum that looked close to the sample of silver solartex when comparing to shade card/fan deck turned to be totally disastrous when applied and dried . So this option is also out.
I had bought some samples from http://www.migjimenez.com/en/acrylic-colors/563-silver-.html
The silver shade has by far been beautiful. Down side being that I would need at-least 30 bottles since these come in 17ml bottles   
These are water based and once coated with water based PU should withstand glow fuel.

I did not find silver in Italeri. Tamiya paints being in 10ml pots were again a no go.

Now for the flying surfaces silver I have to decide between
Either I go with solvent based silver or order some 30 odd bottles from MiG the water based acrylics which have given beautiful results


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: michaely on November 01, 2017, 01:46:24 AM
I just came across your build...... great thread with lots of pictures; thanks for the posting effort.

Perhaps because around 1500 of the Tiger Moths were built in Canada between 1936 and 1942, with some still flying and in museums, it is a still a favorite scale model build in Canada.  At least two Canadian quarter scale kits were made, one by Bud Barkley and one by John Clark (Clark Industries), neither of which are currently available.
I have the Barkley kit and several years ago visited John Clark's shop, just about 20 kilometres down the road from me, and picked up some accessories such as a canopy kit (smiley: Canadian winters), some stainless steel parts and latex paint in wartime colours.  If my memory is correct I believe John said he sold between a hundred and two hundred of his Tiger Moth kits over the years. He said he believed his quarter scale Moth flew best at 21 or 22 pounds.

btw, one excellent book on the Tiger Moth, with lots of colour detail pictures is the Haynes "owner's workshop manual" titled De Havilland Tiger Moth by Stephen Slater.  (It's not really a shop manual for the full size plane.) It's in paperback and the price a couple of years ago, from Amazon, was only about $15 Canadian.

Michael in Ontario, Canada


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on January 25, 2018, 02:15:42 AM
And here is a picture of the completed ASI along with one from full scale for comparison.
Once fixed on to the front left strut the spring indicator will be bolted on to the scale (currently it is not as could be seen)
[Great following your building post here in the UK. Question on the airspeed indicator you made, which is really good. How did you do the lettering. I have got to that bit with mine.... and now left scratching my head.]


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2018, 08:08:18 AM
Hello Spike
What kit or make of Tiger you are building?
To answer your question, the lettering on the scale was done with some help from Don in UK. The full scale picture of the ASI was resized, printed out and the scale cut and pasted on the 1/4 scale fittings.
If you PM me your email I will send you the file that was used to print


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on January 25, 2018, 12:02:17 PM
Went and bought some Liquitex silver acrylic and there is just one word for it. "Useless" I also had got some Vallejo Premium silver from Hobby king but it is same shade as Liquitex silver that is dirty white-ish which may glint silver if you squint and imagine it to be silver.
Either I go with solvent based silver or order some 30 odd bottles from MiG the water based acrylics which have given beautiful results


I don't know if this will work for you, but about 1987 I painted my caddy box with Silver Acrylic Auto Paint. (http://[quote author=flyingboxcar link=topic=6045.msg278910#msg278910 date=1507034661]Went and bought some Liquitex silver acrylic and there is just one word for it. "Useless" I also had got some Vallejo Premium silver from Hobby king but it is same shade as Liquitex silver that is dirty white-ish which may glint silver if you squint and imagine it to be silver. Either I go with solvent based silver or order some 30 odd bottles from MiG the water based acrylics which have given beautiful results [/quote]I don't know if this will work for you, but about 1987 I painted my caddy box with Silver Acrylic Auto Paint.)https://s25.postimg.org/v35p3mjnj/Caddy_2.jpg

Worked well, highly fuel resistant, and lasted forever


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2018, 01:17:09 PM
Sanjay can you tell me about the paint? Brand etc?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on January 25, 2018, 04:34:11 PM
It was Asian Paints Acrylic Auto Refinish. Does not use ordinary thinner - there is a special thinner used also fromAsian


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2018, 04:46:09 PM
Ok I think you may not have used Acrylic but PU or Alkyd. Acrylic will be water thinnable  unless it is PolyAcrylic.
I think when I restart the work I will to settle for PU


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on January 25, 2018, 04:47:24 PM
No. It was Acrylic for sure! Don't forget, this was late '80s


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on January 25, 2018, 04:58:06 PM
Any case, lots of silver colored cars around. You can get PU, Acrylic.... in Silver and use


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on January 25, 2018, 08:52:43 PM
Hi flyingboxcar
Thanks for the response to my Decal question.
I am building the Traplet !/$ Scale Tiger Moth kit, and compared to yours its very "basic", but it does then give you the choice of building it very scale like or turning into a fun fly.
I have 2 photos attached (hopefully)
First one is in autocad to 1/4 scale size
second one is the ali bits thus far



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 25, 2018, 11:30:17 PM
Traplet or Sarik now is Duncan Hutson design and very scale. The best in scale fidelity was the Classic scale 1/3 scale.
Your ASI is looking good. A bit of paint and the printed scale once added will bring it to life


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on January 25, 2018, 11:42:55 PM
Thanks for that, but hence my question, how and where did you get the printing done, your looks fabulous


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 26, 2018, 08:09:18 PM
Printed the scale on a office printer and gave it a coat or two of acrylic varnish of the type that did not smudge the print


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on January 28, 2018, 12:24:40 AM
Just finished the dry assembly run before painting


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 28, 2018, 07:04:50 AM
That looks lovely. Go on with rest of the build now. Do you have a thread going about your build somewhere?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on January 28, 2018, 07:53:05 PM
Not yet, but you certainly have given me the idea to do a log as it keeps a track of things.... progress with my build has been slow as i started getting very poor eye sight and it wasnt fun anymore. Eyesight now alot better so getting insperation from your build log has really helped. Many thanks and i hope to see more of your interesting posts here


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 28, 2018, 08:19:30 PM
Go on do it . Just in case you do not know, there is another build log of the same model running in UK.
If you are on modelflying.co.uk check out Peterf's Falcon Tiger Build
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=103321

And another one by Trevor
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=96001


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on February 11, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
Hi there flyingboxcar.

Good to sea your tigers flying.. well done

I sent you an email re a control box section, hope you didnt mind.

Regards
Spike


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on February 11, 2018, 11:04:54 PM
Spike
I had missed replying to your email. I will see what I can do to help you


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on February 11, 2018, 11:57:05 PM
Many thanks, i really appreciate it. You have set a very high standard of build.... but it certainly looks fantastic


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on February 13, 2018, 09:00:38 PM
Spike, have emailed you pictures from the Falcon plan and also a link to another plan that will give you details about the control tunnel


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on February 14, 2018, 12:14:40 AM
Many thanks flyingboxcar.
Lots to get my teeth into now, progress going forward.
Many thanks once again
Spike


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 02, 2018, 05:35:05 PM
Not much moved on the build completion. Today did the wheel cover logos. Not the best paint job, contemplating on scraping off the paint and redoing it all again


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on March 03, 2018, 05:55:28 AM
Would be good to make a stencil for that


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on March 03, 2018, 07:18:06 AM
Or, you could even cut it from Vinyl. If you use Nicolite brand, it's permanent and won't peel off


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 03, 2018, 01:52:42 PM
The logo is moulded in the cover so vinyl stick on will not look good. I tried masking off but that did not work. I will scrape the paint off and try redoing


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on March 04, 2018, 12:28:05 AM
Painting, oh what a pain. I have had to strip my 2 seats today as i painted them on friday morning before work, and before the house was warm, they were still tacky 24 hours later  >:(
Now your wheel hubs. Many years ago i had to paint something very similar on a ships name plate, no it was a real ship, not a model. What the older salts used was a bit of fine sponge, like the sort you use in the shower, or the wife uses to apply makeup. Fold it an tape it withh gaffer tape or selotape so that you have a curved surface and something to hold. Dip the curved sponge end in some paint but dont soak it, then treat it like you would during your weather process, ie get most of the wet paint off by dabbing it on some paper. You can the gently dab you wheel hub, and as its raised you only paint that bit. Slowly slowly though.
Hope it helps


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: rishabhbarma on March 05, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
Why not use a red permanent marker?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 05, 2018, 06:37:11 PM
Yes the marker is a good idea, but where do you get the marker in vintage red colour?
If you would look close you would see some corrections that were attempted with a silver sharpie over the red paint.
I think the sponge idea is worth trying


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on March 05, 2018, 08:23:35 PM
I have just painted my wheel logos, red does not cover very well, I used a paintbrush that ended in a fine point that I could put a drop of paint onto the raised areas with and then tease it out. It was still not perfect after two coats, but when you lok at photos of full size they are not perfect either, hand painted on old surfaces, we just have to make sure our blemishes are 1/4 of the full size ones.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 05, 2018, 08:30:33 PM
Peter, if I squint and look from a distance, my handiwork still looks good. Just that the picture was taken much closer that makes it look horrendous :)
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on March 05, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
It was still not perfect after two coats, but when you lok at photos of full size they are not perfect either, hand painted on old surfaces, we just have to make sure our blemishes are 1/4 of the full size ones.

Wonderful! Wish I could even dream of reaching such levels...
 :bow:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 05, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
I must confess Peter! you have much steadier pair of hands than I  :thumbsup:

And do make sure to paint the creep marks in a colour that would contract with the hubs and tyres


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 05, 2018, 09:19:14 PM
Here is the Logo in all it's glory


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 04, 2018, 04:09:56 PM
 I have to confess I have not been focused on the Tiger due to various reasons and the project is now way behind.
Been doing some small jobs that need to be done on the model. Started working on the instrument panels. The panel is made of plastic and ply sandwich and the instruments are from http://www.aerocockpit.com
Here are a few pictures of the work in progress. One panel is done as far as instruments are concerned. The compass needs fixing, the oil pressure gauge remains to stuck on and the graphics attached and then various placards with warnings and manufacturers numbers etc   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 04, 2018, 04:11:20 PM
And one more


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on April 04, 2018, 04:28:48 PM
Great!

That compass housing (I think) in the last picture reminds me of a Mariner's Compass


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on April 05, 2018, 12:14:51 AM
They are very good instruments, crisp clear printing, and look good in the wood panel. They will set off the cockpit nicely.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 05, 2018, 12:18:53 AM
Peter, did you spot the error on the panel ? Result of hands worrying quicker than brains


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on April 05, 2018, 12:27:07 AM
Whoop! Whoop!
Stall! Stall!

Edit
Unless you’re gunning it with the chocks on at a field ~1000’ ASL...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 05, 2018, 08:06:56 AM
Iyer sir, can't do much about the already printed dials. And these won't be visible to anyone unless the person is looking really up close.
If you meant that's the error, I was talking about, it's not


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on April 05, 2018, 12:18:18 PM
The rpm dial is usually angled the other way so the 1000rpm is at the bottom.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 05, 2018, 01:32:22 PM
Ah! no, the dial is tilted correct way so that the 1700-1800 reading is vertical, refer attached picture from another full scale.
The screws holding the dial are incorrectly installed. The screws needed to be tilted as well. But I will leave them as is


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on April 08, 2018, 09:02:00 PM
Whoop! Whoop!
Stall! Stall!
Edit
Unless you’re gunning it with the chocks on at a field ~1000’ ASL...

On reconsideration, my comments are not correct.
An onlooker or keenest of observers can only see the instruments when the model is at rest.

The dials are correct.
What I thought was 3500+ rpm, is actually zero, ie, engine off. (Needle the other side of the peg!)
Similarly, ASI zero, Altimeter shows airfield elevation, turn and slip at rest.
I expect you’ll find a working compass of the right size...

Your dedication inspires me to attempt something similar, even if only in 1/12 scale!
Regards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 08, 2018, 09:50:26 PM
Iyer Saab unfortunately not going to find a working magnetic compass at this size. These will remain dummy with some embellishment on the stock bought out item. Should post a picture of two once the oil pressure gauge is complete and fixed on the dashboard


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on April 08, 2018, 09:53:22 PM
What’s that white rectangular item at bottom centre right?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on April 08, 2018, 10:49:32 PM
That whitish rectangle is now painted yellow hue and that will simulate the oil pressure gauge on the panel.
On the full scale panel picture above you can see that in the dark red/brownish hue


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 04:38:08 PM
For those who are still following the build, some good news from UK. Peter from UK who has been flitting in and out of this build log and also has helped me tremendously has completed the build of his Falcon Models Tiger Moth and has been flying it regularly. he reports that he is really pleased with the model and I am sure he is not overstating. Have a look at the videos and I am sure you all will agree that the model Peter has built has turned out beautiful and he flies it good.

The maiden flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXG3yOexY5E&t=26s

Subsequent flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0iuQVpUsas


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 04:51:23 PM
Completion of Peter's model was useful in prodding myself to work some more on my model. Some progress has been made.
1. The wings and tail feathers have been painted silver. I finally used Aspa Automotive enamels for painting.
2. Base coat silver is in process of being applied on the fuse before being painted red and black and all the numerals etc being masked and painted
3. The fin has had the Wyvern logo applied and the entire fin clear-coated to seal the logo.
4. The long acorns are complete with base coat silver. Next job to trim the bolts and apply top coat of red
5. The dashboard instruments are done
6. The windscreens are complete except for gluing in the clear perspex
7. The wheel covers are done
8. The outer main struts have had the end caps made in Litho and affixed. next job is to paint these end caps black. Will do so along with affixing the DH logos and then clear coat and seal the entire assembly

Here are some pictures 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 04:56:31 PM
The last picture here is the full scale one to show the Wyvern logo


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on May 29, 2018, 05:13:27 PM
Is Peter using Electric?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 05:14:54 PM
Yes, he crossed over to the occult side of the hobby some where during his build, but he did start normal  ;D 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 05:16:49 PM
The journey of the windscreen, made out of kit supplied 1/32 ply frames, embellished with litho and brass pieces. Sanded, sealed and painted ready to receive perspex


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 05:18:51 PM
last one for the windscreen


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on May 29, 2018, 05:19:56 PM
Yes, he crossed over to the occult side of the hobby some where during his build, but he did start normal  ;D 

Is his craft named Vodemort by any chance? ;)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 05:21:24 PM
I would assume he knows  ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on May 29, 2018, 05:23:22 PM
Anyway, many congratulations Peter {:)} :goodjob:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on May 29, 2018, 05:43:48 PM
Manish, you have been saving up progress on many items for todays mega posting. Good to see progress again.

Sanjay, The plane had a brand new Laser 150 in it during the first year or so of the build. However, part way through the build I swapped over completely to electric flight. It is powered by a Hyperion ZS4035 pulling 1500W, so about the same power as the Laser 150. It has had around 20 flights now and has not had to be cleaned down yet.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on May 29, 2018, 06:50:33 PM
That's a big headache saved, I guess. Especially with such detailed scale features


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on May 29, 2018, 07:11:24 PM
@peterf,
Lovely build.
Lands like a feather.
Looks just like this one too  ;D
Perhaps a sound card for engine sound...
Regards



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on May 29, 2018, 07:20:31 PM
@flyingboxcar,
Those metal tipped struts look just great.
Was puzzled by the clips/nuts in pic 1 of reply #358, till I realised they must be the anchors for the flying/landing wires.
But still wondering what those green bits are...

Did you say “if anyone is still watching...”? Only 117,896 views, huh?
Regards

And Rai saheb’s query went way over my head, lacking, as I do, any pottery background...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 29, 2018, 08:24:19 PM
Iyer sir, yes those ironmongery are the pieces where the various bits of wires attach.
The green pieces are clevises for the wires masked in green masking tape during spraying paint so that the delicate threads don't clog up with paint 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 30, 2018, 04:33:30 PM
Some more pictures
made up a tiny extinguisher with label and all
A shot of the silver base coat applied on the cowl
Few pictures of the control quadrants


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on May 30, 2018, 08:29:49 PM
Brilliant! Superb.
What is Phatic Glue: obviously an aliphatic glue, but pray, tell more

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on May 30, 2018, 08:33:26 PM
Brilliant! Superb.
What is Phatic Glue: obviously an aliphatic glue, but pray, tell more

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Same comment.
Same query.
I was just too shy to ask...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 30, 2018, 08:56:59 PM
That's an aliphatic glue from Deluxe materials see the video below.
It's available on Flipkart and Amazon India as well. My stock was bought some time back from Singahobby when the glue was not available locally.
In terms of what it is, it's exactly the same material what was earlier used in fabric paint as fixer. i remember in late 80's fabric paint used to come as two component the dye and the fixer (basically glue) that needed to be mixed together before being applied. And the Deluxe materials super phatic when spilled on cloth is permanent. It's good stuff when you need precise application and don't want brittle cyano joints 
     
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E4YKiE-ubo


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on May 30, 2018, 09:58:15 PM
Sounds just like what I need!
But what’s the drying time?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 30, 2018, 10:57:49 PM
Slower than Cyano but quicker than wood glue


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on May 30, 2018, 11:24:36 PM
Neither on flipkart nor on amazon.in  :banghead:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on May 30, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
Very much there, check the screen shot attached


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 16, 2018, 05:49:32 PM
Finally some colour on all silver to make it look more interesting.
I was apprehensive that the paint many bleed through the masks.
The quality of masks cut by Callie are excellent. The glue has food tack but not as aggressive to lift of the base coat when the masks are removed. I
I also made sure to spray a coat of silver after the mask was applied. This ensures that any bleed under the mask will be silver and the mask edges get sealed with the silver coat and help in preventing any bleed under the masks.
Thankfully the entire process went satisfactorily. Here are some pictures


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 16, 2018, 05:53:36 PM
Next picture shows all the sorrounding cover removed and just the masks left on. The masks were removed while the paint was still tacky. This helps in the paint edges settle down and does not leave a raised edge of paint.
And the last two pictures of the finished wing markings on top and bottom wings


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 26, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Had been on the prowl to get a set of working  luggage compartment over center catches. Finally some research, some known folks and some waiting got me the cut parts and I set on work.
First picture shows the catches on full scale. Rest of the pictures show the one for the model. Made from 0.8mm mild steel, cut on waterjet, some bending, hammering, some pieces of wire and you are almost there. The over center piece that locks will be sized and fitted once the pieces are screwed on to the fuse. The first picture shows how the cut parts start and thereon.     
The entire assembly is just proud of one inch. The one on full scale is around 4 inches 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on June 26, 2018, 05:20:08 PM
Two more pictures just to give a better idea


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on June 26, 2018, 05:57:22 PM
Neat  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on August 06, 2018, 10:01:11 PM
Manish,

Kudos to you on the luggage compartment latches and the paint job on the wing markings. I keep checking in hoping to see it completed and feel that it will not be long now.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 06, 2018, 10:24:59 PM
Hello! Peter, good to still see some interest in the build log. Yes there has been some progress but then life intervenes. Even I feel that it's tantilizingly close now, unless I discover a major issue that may have gone unnoticed till now.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Flyboys on August 21, 2018, 09:02:08 PM
Hi Manish,

Any further updates on the Tigy in the last 15 days?



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Flyboys on August 21, 2018, 09:11:56 PM
Hi Manish,

As in Peter's model, are you also planning for a Electric Motor in the beauty?



Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 21, 2018, 11:42:28 PM
While Peter did switch to the dark side during the journey, I am still sticking to pukka Laser 150 for powering the Moth.
Just curious, why do you ask


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Flyboys on August 22, 2018, 08:57:27 PM
Hi Manish,

I understand that Laser 150 is a Glow Engine. Having painstaking built this model for almost half a decade I thought that a Electric Motor or a Gasser would surely increase the lifespan of the model, that's why this query.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 22, 2018, 09:08:36 PM
I understand your concern. But I am banking on Laser's reliability.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 07, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
I have just painted my wheel logos, red does not cover very well, I used a paintbrush that ended in a fine point that I could put a drop of paint onto the raised areas with and then tease it out. It was still not perfect after two coats, but when you lok at photos of full size they are not perfect either, hand painted on old surfaces, we just have to make sure our blemishes are 1/4 of the full size ones.
Hi there M, what colours have you used for your painting? I have bought some from humbrol but the red is far too dark and not as vibrant as the Brookland Avaition scheme I want to model.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 07, 2018, 11:53:45 PM
I have had major trouble finding suitable paint shades. Ultimately I have up and settled for ordinary, cheap Auto enamel from local firms. The colour are not even close to the original. Well maybe except for the black  maybe :)
No one ships paints overseas these days not even humbrol. I managed to get some tins but found the quality was no longer same. The Matt 78 is semi gloss, silver 11 was more of grey.
I suggest if you can get  Solarlac paints it would be best suited


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 08, 2018, 01:59:00 PM
Many thanks


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 17, 2018, 05:32:23 PM
Time to add some colour, literally!!
The entire fuse was first given a coat of same silver as on wings.
Then the fuse areas with lettering in white/silvery white were given couple of coats of appropriate white/silvery white and allowed to dry.
The masks for the lettering were then applied over these white/silvery white at appropriate locations. Next step was to spray on another coat of white/silvery white over the masks so that all the edges are sealed and chances of any bleed through of darker colour is reduced.
And then the upper fuse and cowl etc was sprayed with red. Once the red was dry the area was masked off and the lower fuse half (or 2/3 if you will) was sprayed black and the entire assembly allowed to dry for few hours.
Time to peel back the masks and see if any bleed through occurred.  Thankfully the lettering's all came out fine (minus very minor bleed under the pinks that have since been touched up with appropriate paint).
But, when things go too well there is something not going right. Right?
While spraying the black on lower portion I had not noticed and the mask on the red had lifted off in some places thereby allowing over spray of black on to red. Oh well! you live and learn.
So next step will be to let the paint harden for couple of days, then rub down the over spray areas  and the respray red and hope things goo better that time.
Overall satisfied with paint job.
With this all major painting is complete (except correcting the over spray). What's left of painting can be handled by a brush as mostly small items and touching up the nuts and bolts once in place.
Some pictures for anyone who might still be interested    

Picture 1 - You can see the base silver on fuse side with white/silver white on the sides as well. The top deck has been sprayed red
Picture 2 - The paint drying, love the reflection on the floor tiles, looks like a proper Tiger Moth structure
Picture 3 and 4 - Just some shots of the cowl area. In the third picture the lettering masks are clearly seen. This is the stage when edge sealing coat was sprayed on the letters
    


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 17, 2018, 05:36:33 PM
Pictures of after the vinyl masks were lifted off revealing the white/silvery white letters underneath
Picture 1. The tail number under the tailplane
Picture 2 - The G registration. Black over spray can be clearly seen in this picture
Picture 3 - The lettering under the front cockpit door


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: gaurang.1972 on September 17, 2018, 06:12:07 PM
flyingboxcar sir excellent color scheme and very neat and clean build {:)} {:)} {:)}



Regards
Gaurang


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 17, 2018, 09:39:29 PM
Wow, Firefox, superb job and is love the Brokkland decals, did you cut them out by hand?.

Honestly the shine and finish on the cowl is really good, well done you.

Thanks for continuing to share your progress.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 17, 2018, 09:52:32 PM
Spike
All the masks were cut by Callie graphics in US ( https://callie-graphics.com/)
So were the stickers that come on the fin and the cowl cheeks. These were too complicated to be masked and painted so settled for stick on printed vinyl and then clear coated.

It's Flyingboxcar  :giggle: not Firefox


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on September 17, 2018, 10:24:57 PM
What’s in a name?
Everyone knows this model and the builder.
Perhaps you’ll invite some of your admirers to the maiden...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 17, 2018, 10:31:54 PM
Ha, ha, predictive text.....and spell check.

So sorry 🙃


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 17, 2018, 10:50:34 PM
Megga sorry for the typo "Flyingboxcar"  :bow:

Thanks for the heads up on the Brookland decals as i was really struggling with .... how am i going to do that!!

I have just bought half a meter of 0.75mm thick steel sheeting at a bargin price as it had a tiny piece of rust. I am going to try and make up some of those compartment catches, which look really scale like.

Regards Spike


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 17, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Just noticed something in your photo of the catches, one fitting may be upsidedown.
I have found a photo on the internet which shows some good detail
https://kevstigermoth.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/image49.jpeg
Hope thats a help, and lets see the finished ones soon.
Regards Spike


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 18, 2018, 12:15:15 PM
Ha, ha, predictive text.....and spell check.

So sorry 🙃

No need for sorry, my response was more in jest than anything else


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 18, 2018, 12:16:48 PM
Megga sorry for the typo "Flyingboxcar"  :bow:

Thanks for the heads up on the Brookland decals as i was really struggling with .... how am i going to do that!!

I have just bought half a meter of 0.75mm thick steel sheeting at a bargin price as it had a tiny piece of rust. I am going to try and make up some of those compartment catches, which look really scale like.

Regards Spike

Fantastic if you want to do it yourself. However, let me know and I can put you in touch with the guy who did the job for me. He is in US


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 18, 2018, 12:18:19 PM
Just noticed something in your photo of the catches, one fitting may be upsidedown.
I have found a photo on the internet which shows some good detail
https://kevstigermoth.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/image49.jpeg
Hope thats a help, and lets see the finished ones soon.
Regards Spike

Yes you are right on that. While setting them up, initially I did put it upside down but later had realized I was doing it wrong and it was a simple matter of turning  them around. Thanks for pointing out


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 18, 2018, 12:22:27 PM
What’s in a name?
Everyone knows this model and the builder.
Perhaps you’ll invite some of your admirers to the maiden...


Only if I know when will it fly. What if I were to invite one for a particular date and not able to fly that day due to some reason?
Although I will try and see if some one could video the maiden so that it could be shared  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on September 18, 2018, 12:30:02 PM
That would be great if you could, it never hurts to have a very good source like that to hand.

Actually while we are on that subject, did you make your pitot tubes too, they are superb and i know PeterF in he UK made his on a lathe but i dont think mine would look anything like the real thing.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 18, 2018, 03:38:44 PM
Spike,
Peter's Pitot assembly is indeed fantastic and so close to full scale.
I am using the pitot assembly plate mouldings that were supplied in the kit along with some bits of appropriate tube etc. Won't look as good as Peter's example but will pass for one.
I will send you the details of the cutter separately  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on September 25, 2018, 02:45:37 AM
Manish, still dropping in from time to time and checking up on your build, I do not always get the email from the site when new posts have been made. Your paint has gone on well with your masks working well. I see you did the lettering in the opposite order to me and that has turned out well.

Regarding maiden flights, I had displayed my model unflown at out clubs competition night and so many people were asking me to let them know about the maiden. In the end I just chose a good day and flew it without advertising the fact. Once I knew it flew OK, then on the second outing a good number of club members turned out even though they were not flying that afternoon. My wife also came on that second flying session. A maiden of such an expensive and time consuming model is nerve wracking enough without a large audience.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 25, 2018, 06:57:47 AM
Thanks for checking in Peter. Maybe there are glitches in the site's notification system.
Regarding the paint masks, while the wing was done with negative masks , all the fuse letterings were positive masks. My apprehension was that  white may not come out very well on black if I tried negative masks.
Except for minor bleed through and some overspray painting has been largely satisfactory. Truth be told, this is my first spray job.
Hmm! Maiden nerves. I am not even thinking about that right now, first I need to complete the model


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on September 25, 2018, 06:21:45 PM
Negative masks worked OK for me on the fuselage as the Solarlac silver has a very high pigment content and went over the black OK. On your paler colour I can understand the positive masks. Even on similar colour schemes there are differences to the lettering and decals on the two prototypes.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 25, 2018, 06:50:24 PM
Absolutely right, no two Tiger's are alike.
The one I am modelling had a different lettering earlier when I started (square cut edges etc) but looks like it has been changed recently (Old DH UK style rounded edges etc), and the placement of N numbers under the Tail plane has also changed.
Two pictures to illustrate the difference, Source - http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photos/N675LF:250279:1.html
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on September 25, 2018, 09:45:19 PM
G-ADNV not in UK?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on September 26, 2018, 07:28:30 AM
No, it's based at Santa Paula in USA.
The FAA registration (N number) is on the fuse just under the tailplane leading edge. The A/c wears pseudo November Victor scheme


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on September 27, 2018, 03:08:50 AM
Manish,

On my build I faced similar issues as the full size plane changed over time, it had the wind deflection air speed indicator removed at some point, it had a wind driven generator added, various parts of the covering changed colour as bits were removed and replaced after inspections or repair. I had so many photographs, but the date of them was not clear in all cases and given the 80 year age, this is not surprising. The model represents the full scale at some point in its life, but not how it currently looks.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 03, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
Some more pictures
1. The fuel gauge, also seen is the cable guide for slat locking cables
2. Fuel filler cap and vents
3. Fuel tank rear fixing on the center section   
4. Fuel tank fixing underside. Also visible is the tank sump and the drain cock


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 03, 2018, 04:11:23 PM
1. 5mm pulleys on the starboard rear strut to guide the slat locking cables
2. Cable guide with rubber pads
3. Logo applied on cowl cheeks (to be clear coated)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 03, 2018, 04:14:45 PM
Also completed the control runs check, just a bit of cable tensions to be adjusted to eliminate the servo buzz
Two videos showing the controls working and the other one showing control connections and bellcranks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eQDbZ0mSmM

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdKuAB6UD28


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on October 03, 2018, 04:58:31 PM
Seems like it's nearing the Big RTF Captain  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 03, 2018, 05:16:29 PM
Yes, Target is to test fly it in 2018 post Chennai monsoons


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on October 03, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
Fantastic. Around February 2019?


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 03, 2018, 06:48:59 PM
Oh! No, 2018 Dec.
Later half of Dec is when the rains have stopped and the temperatures are comfortable


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: gaurang.1972 on October 03, 2018, 06:57:20 PM
excellent build and best of luck for maiden do share video


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Flyboys on October 04, 2018, 06:56:38 AM
Wow. Excellent build Manish. :hatsoff: Would love to see the Maiden flight in person. Just looking at the video, i thought it would be cool if the elevator control can be linked to the Center Stick as well. Yeh Dil Mange More.. ;D


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 04, 2018, 08:54:45 AM
Ha ha, will do that when I build a 1/3 scale


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 11, 2018, 09:12:43 PM
Some more pictures of details that have been added.
1. General arrangement of fuel pipe, fuel cock, fuel cock operating bellcrank, rear view mirror, and the connection pipe between the front and rear section of the overhead tank
2. Close up of the fuel cock
3. Magneto switch and the plate.
4. Wing slats
 


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 11, 2018, 09:20:39 PM
Some more
1 Slat mechanism covers
2. Two views of the wing walkways


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on October 21, 2018, 09:45:13 PM
Some more pictures of details that have been added.
1. General arrangement of fuel pipe, fuel cock, fuel cock operating bellcrank, rear view mirror, and the connection pipe between the front and rear section of the overhead tank
2. Close up of the fuel cock
3. Magneto switch and the plate.
4. Wing slats
 
[hey there flyingboxcar, your latest updates are looking great. What size feul line (copper pipe) did you use? I have got 4 different photos and the scale goes from 3 to 3.8 mm but i dont want to get it wrong.]


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on October 21, 2018, 09:47:21 PM
Spot on, those look like the real thing. I bet you are well pleased and so you should be  :hatsoff:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on October 21, 2018, 10:04:16 PM
Captain, the level of detail you’re working at is just awesome...


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 21, 2018, 11:49:52 PM
Spike
I have used 1/8 brass for the fuel pipe
 In hind sight should have used copper.
Hope that helps
Some more pictures of details that have been added.
1. General arrangement of fuel pipe, fuel cock, fuel cock operating bellcrank, rear view mirror, and the connection pipe between the front and rear section of the overhead tank
2. Close up of the fuel cock
3. Magneto switch and the plate.
4. Wing slats
 
[hey there flyingboxcar, your latest updates are looking great. What size feul line (copper pipe) did you use? I have got 4 different photos and the scale goes from 3 to 3.8 mm but i dont want to get it wrong.]


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on October 22, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
Spike
I have used 1/8 brass for the fuel pipe
 In hind sight should have used copper.
Hope that helps
Some more pictures of details that have been added.
1. General arrangement of fuel pipe, fuel cock, fuel cock operating bellcrank, rear view mirror, and the connection pipe between the front and rear section of the overhead tank
2. Close up of the fuel cock
3. Magneto switch and the plate.
4. Wing slats
 
[hey there flyingboxcar, your latest updates are looking great. What size feul line (copper pipe) did you use? I have got 4 different photos and the scale goes from 3 to 3.8 mm but i dont want to get it wrong.]

It certainly does. I will get some today, but i think i might make it from solid rather than tube as bending tube that thin is going to be a devils own game. Many thanks flyingboxcar


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 22, 2018, 05:44:28 PM
Bending the 1/8 tube should not be an issue. The solid one will add weight. If you have spring benders it can be done or else just anneal the tube then it can be shaped with bare hands.
And get more than one so that you don't run out if the first one does not turn out as desired.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 23, 2018, 01:59:58 PM
Spike,
Another tip regarding bending tubes, that I learnt on RC Scalebuilder forum.
Insert a piece of soft solder wire that is slip fit in your choosen tube. Bend to desired shape and pull out the wire. If the solder wire breaks or snag, heat the tube and the solder will flow out.   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 23, 2018, 06:35:45 PM
Some more details have been since made and added on to the model
1. The head rest former's for the two cockpits. These were measured and cut in paper first and when satisfied with accuracy was transferred to 1/64 ply with appropriate cutouts etc. These were then clad in thin genuine leather.
2. For the front cockpit, handholds were formed out of lithoplate and fixed. Here both pieces can be seen together
3. Fixing attachments for the Sutton harness were made out of thin Ali sheet. Bolted on using M2 hardware with 5mm  brass pulley riding on the anchor cables that had been added much earlier in the build. Pulleys allow the fittings to ride freely over the anchor cables
4. Closeup of the attachments. Next job would be to sit the pilot and size the Sutton harness.
      


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on October 23, 2018, 09:38:54 PM
Wow, the level of detail is superb, well done. Thanks for sharing your excellent modelling skills and model


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on October 24, 2018, 06:28:12 AM
Really appreciate the build, and attention to detail, Captain  :salute:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 24, 2018, 01:38:47 PM
Thank you folks. I have been trying but I must confess the workmanship leaves much to be desired when compared to many other master craftsmen who I admire and follow.
I think I will be satisfied if it looks the part from 6 feet :)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on November 08, 2018, 01:45:18 PM
One more box ticked off.
The tail wheel assembly is complete.
The wheel yoke is 3D metal printed, that is silver soldered on to piano wire that goes through the undercarriage bracket and rest of the bits and bobs are soldered and bolted together to make it look something like the full scale.
All that remains is a lick of appropriate paint on the bare metal parts to blend it all in and then fill the undercarriage bracket tube with some grease to lube as well as prevent rust between the tube and piano wire that is enclosed


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 28, 2019, 08:00:11 PM
The Tiggy (Fuselage only) go to go out to the field over last two weekends. The idea was to run the engine in the air frame and see what fails/gives. Plans were also drawn to check various props, therefore a tacho was put in the caddy, and a fish scale carried along to just see what the engine/prop combo pulls on level paved surface.
Well first outing the Tiggy only got some tan and fresh air as it was realized that the tank lines were mixed up and I did not want to investigate and fix all that at the field. Back at home things were all corrected and tidied up in preparation for next weekend.
Come next weekend the Tiggy went along for a ride to the field. All fueled up, a choked flip to prime, glow live and the Laser 150 fired up right away.
While setting up the tune it was noticed that copious amount of fuel was flowing down the cowl pan on to the grass. This all happened in first minute of the engine being started.
Engine was promptly shut down and a cursory look revealed a disaster.  See the pictures

The unrestrained tank had moved up and welded itself to the hot bendy pipe exhaust leading to a fuel shower.

Any further attempts of shake down or excursion to the field are on hold till a replacement tank is sourced and installed with corrective measure to prevent any repeat of the incident.   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on January 28, 2019, 10:00:43 PM
Glad it didn’t catch fire.
Like one of ours did, long long ago, priming a Cox with the plug on...
Regards


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on January 29, 2019, 02:03:17 PM
Iyer sir, you bet I was glad too that it did not erupt in flames :)


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 08, 2019, 08:30:50 PM
Managed to set up the dihedral and sweep back etc. One heck of a job to do and still one wing tip is different from the other by around 10mm and I have decided to just live with it.  Next job is to lock up all the landing and flying wires etc and fix leather pads between the incidence wires and put on the long acorns between the flying and landing wires.
Also fitted the ASI (used double sided tape to position and will use c/s self tappers to fix in position) and on the other side fitted the static and pitot tubes. The tube terminates at the lower wing near the front strut in thin dowels that are just plugged in. In case the strut needs to be removed the whole assembly can be removed with the strut without damaging any part.
     


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on March 08, 2019, 10:54:44 PM
Sir,
If you calibrated the ASI, and put a one way sawtooth ratchet under the swing arm, you’d have a ready record of the max airspeed achieved...
(Those who can, do. Others preach. I fear I’m falling into the latter category  ;D)

Pl include a foot rule in your pics to give us a feel for the size of the part in the pic.

P.S.
A scale model like this needs a scale airfield.
We have one. Just right to test fly your Tiger Moth. Grass runway.
I’ll arrange accommodation too.
Please do consider.
Regards
Iyer


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 09, 2019, 12:18:11 AM
Iyer sir,
At the stage I am with this model I am running out of patience. So the ASI will remain as is and then the ratchet wouldn't be scale, no? If I am looking to measure speed today telemetry offers much more accurate reading than an ASI that is being pushed by the air stream. Even on the full scale I suspect that it was used as a rough and ready guide rather an accurate instrument.
What would constitute a scale airfield? Just a 1/4 length runway or all the buildings and people too scaled down to quarter of full size?
Thanks for the offer. I do have access to grass runway where I regularly fly so that should not be an issue. Moreover with a tail wheel instead of the skid the model will also handle paved surface equally well and that too is available.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on March 09, 2019, 04:51:49 AM
Manish,

Just popped by to see if there were updates. We have had a mild winter in the UK and I flew my Moth in February, we had a week of light winds and record 17degC. Your ASI and pitot tubes look very good and what I am really impressed with is the finish on your interplane struts. Did you make these per the kit with laminations of balsa and spruce, because if you did and then got consistent coloration of the two different wood types I take my hat off to you :hatsoff:.

Peter.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 09, 2019, 06:12:02 AM
Thanks for dropping by Peter. UK flying season should be opening very soon. Wish you happy landings.
On the struts, yes I did make them per plans and then used PU stains, and clear coated with auto enamel. I would have liked lighter colour to represent the full scale more accurately.
The bracket that holds Pitot etc was carbon fiber and came with the kit. I did make up the rest with some bent Al tube, rubber tubing and winding wires. While you left the base hanging I have push fittings.
Your fittings with brass and all was a class apart


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on March 09, 2019, 02:57:45 PM
My kit did not have the piece that holds the pitot tubes so I had to go my own way on that.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 14, 2019, 06:58:38 PM
Here comes the final write up on the saga that has continued since past 8 plus years......
The model was test flown this past Saturday, Oct 12, 2019.
Flying report indicates some more tweaks required to CG/Thrust line. Some scale details are still missing. Both will be attended to in due course.
Enjoy some pictures   


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 14, 2019, 07:01:12 PM
Here comes the final write up on the saga that has continued since past 8 plus years......
The model was test flown this past Saturday, Oct 12, 2019.
Flying report indicates some more tweaks required to CG/Thrust line. Some scale details are still missing. Both will be attended to in due course.
Enjoy some pictures  


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 14, 2019, 07:03:35 PM
Landing shots


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: peterf on October 14, 2019, 09:42:26 PM
Excellent result of an epic build, really pleased for you that it has turned out so well and flown successfully.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on October 14, 2019, 09:48:04 PM
Peter I still rate yours over my build.
And also acknowledge all the help from you that I received for this build. Thank you Peter!
Another motivation source for the build and a great help was Don. Thank you Don!


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: madaquif on October 14, 2019, 10:04:03 PM
8 years of hard work paid off... :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

she looks elegant in the air      :bow:


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on March 17, 2021, 07:15:51 PM
Hi there M. I have been busy with my Tiger and trawling through your post, came across this question.
Its too late now but I think these are the drain hole covers, or doublers that are all over the fabric finish. I will try and find a photo.
I have a question though for you, where did you get the Sutton Harnesses from?
Regards
Spike


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 17, 2021, 08:25:26 PM
Spike, yes those are the drain grommets. I wanted to put them on and even make drain holes, but ultimately left them off. Only installed on the tail feathers.
Regarding the Sutton harness they're available at
 https://www.aerocockpit.com/search?priznak_vyhledavani=1&input_vyhledavani=Tiger%20Moth


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on March 17, 2021, 08:32:21 PM
@flyingboxcar,
Nice to see you back.
You told me once, no more posts in this thread as the build is done!
Regards
Iyer


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on March 17, 2021, 09:41:48 PM
Iyer sir, right. There won't be any build related posts. But a request for help/info had to be responded to


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: Spike RC on March 18, 2021, 12:38:10 AM
Hi there again.
Thanks very much for the harness info, they have been out of stock for months and dont respond to emails.
Back to the drawing board BUT thank you for reply, I really do appreciate it and also miss your posts on this subject.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 28, 2023, 06:59:30 PM
A video of the Moth being aired this past Saturday at the local field
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwBUfhreojY


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: K K Iyer on August 28, 2023, 09:49:37 PM
@flyingboxcar,
Absolutely marvellous.
Loved the go around and subsequent greased in landing.

Was this the maiden flight? Can’t remember offhand if you’d flown it earlier.

Did you logs the hours (years?) spent on the build?

Noted the presence of two more Moths and the Eindecker.

Do grace us with your presence on the forum every now and then...

Regards
Iyer


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 28, 2023, 11:48:50 PM
Iyer saab, thank you!
Maiden was concluded in October 2019. Has had subsequent flights as well. I had changed the radio recently, and although all settings were manually replicated, some trims were required this flight. Idle was one of that. Had to go around, trim the idle lower and then land.
Yes there were two other quarter scale Tiger's, both Hangar 9,and both were flown. Plan was to fly all three together but that did not happen. Maybe some time later.
The red and white is a quarter scale Fokker DVII scratch built by another flyer. Awaits maiden post sorting out the teething troubles.


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: sanjayrai55 on August 29, 2023, 12:21:07 PM
A video of the Moth being aired this past Saturday at the local field
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwBUfhreojY

Very very nice sir! Congrats on the new radio also


Title: Re: Build log 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth from kit
Post by: flyingboxcar on August 29, 2023, 12:46:03 PM
The radio was new in the sense that it was different one earlier 😁