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« on: November 01, 2013, 10:25:00 PM »
samlikespad
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I have a Seagull's Extra 260 180 size on the way. Am confused when it came to the engine selection  Bang Head DLE 30 or DLE 35RA ? The plane weighs a bit more than its competitors making it very difficult to build with proper power/weight for 3D Sad . Help and suggestions requested. Considering the fact that the 35 is a few oz more that 30, is the extra power of .4 HP worth the few oz? Frankly speaking am a bit inclined towards 35RA but same time worried as I wanted to end up some where around 10 to 11 pounds.
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2013, 09:56:43 AM »
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If you read up about the RA, you will find that people are having issues with the rear muffler, again cooling is also going to be issue as most of the muffler is hidden behind the engine. If you want to experiment, get the RA, if you want hassle free flying go for side exhaust.
And a 180 glow is about 30cc, so a 30 or 35cc petrol would not be enough power when compared to the glow 180 (if two stroke) but would be enough if the 180 is meant to be a 4 stroke   
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 10:57:05 AM »
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Thanks flyingboxcar,

180 is 4-stroke. As per spec it should be 160 glow 2-stroke or 180 4-stroke. Which is roughly equivalent to 30cc. MY worry is the power to weight ratio Sad . As you have kindly pointed, I have read that the rearward muffler causes mid air leaning causing engine shutdowns due to the close proximity to the carb. Am not that worried about cooling as my timer is always set to 10 minutes as I keep it as light as possible with less fuel for 3D practicing. I received the plane last day and hope to build it as lite as I could to keep the wing-loading low. My target AUW is less than 5Kg. DLE30 has a max pull of 17 lbs while the 35RA claims 19 or so lbs. The extra pull is good but I dont know how much is the weight penalty. As per their specs its few oz only. If any one has ever used one, please do share the actual weight.
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 11:13:27 AM »
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Cooling will be an issue if you do not build baffles to direct air over the muffler that is hidden behind the big petrol head. Apart from the carb issues the muffler flange breaking off has been another issue. And 10 minutes or less is enough to cook an engine, especially when the engine is working hard in 3D maneuvers..
If you want to keep things light here is what you can do

Do not use multiple servos in the tail especially for elevators. You can join both the elevator halves and use one servo with appropriate torque. Or move the two servos to fuse near to CG and use pull pull for elevators as well. Mount the rudder servo as close to the CG as possible.

These would ensure that you have least amount of weight in the tail and may totally obviate any additional nose weight. And if that is the case then you can arrange your ignition, ig battery and Rx power packs accordingly     
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 12:01:31 PM »
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Joining the ELE halves could be a pain as these extra 260s have them much into the fuse Sad DLE as per other's should balance her but worth trying if it doesn't. Thanks a lot flyingboxcar! really appreciate your help and suggestions  Salute .

Now about the cooling, what I meant is that I would take appropriate measures to ensure as much as possible to pass the air to the inner parts of the cowl hence am not worried Smiley  plus right now the weather is also cooperating. I will be using a much smaller gas tank as well as just enough battery to reduce the AUW. Seagulls are wellbuilt but as a result a bit heavier  Bang Head

But still the original question is, is 35RA's additional weight (few oz though) and much higher price worth the additional .4 HP of power (which they claim) in my case? If the 35 has the same tuning issues as the 30, plus not much power difference (as its just about 400 rpm more than 30), then I could save both money and weight.

lg_DSC04727.jpg
Re: DLE 35RA or DLE30? for Seagull Extra 260 180 ARF
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 12:33:31 PM »
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Watch this,
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOrjXvXjzzo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOrjXvXjzzo</a>

The guy does not do any 3D type aeros but has pointers for you on setup. From what I read at the comments the 30 will have the CG slightly ahead of the marked point so you can distribute the battery weight around, and you will save the extra weight of 35. I was you I would go with 30
And looking at the pictures the model does not look to be designed for pure 3D stuff. More for IMAC type flying. If you intend putting a gas engine and do any kind of hard flying another advice would be to replace the CA hinges with something more beefy  
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 12:49:00 PM »
samlikespad
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This bird is best at IMAC, well-spotted flyingboxcar  Hats Off I have gone through all the threads, youtube vids about this bird already including the above posted one. I have seen one with DLA32 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEO3-Lveu4A" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEO3-Lveu4A</a>


It has 3.8 HP compared to 3.7 of DLE 30. 35RA claims 4.1 . I hope that I could get similar thrust on DLE30 with a bigger prop (20x6 or 20x8).
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 02:53:21 PM »
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The 3.8, 3.7 are all marketing bull.... do you know what prop they used to get those HP figure? What elevation, what temperature, what humidity, what oil, what octane petrol??
You got to suck and see for your conditions and usage. 
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 02:59:18 PM »
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Thanks dear for the guidance.. I might go for DLE 30... if its not engine enough for the seagull.... may be I could find a lite enough airframe for it later Wink
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 11:23:46 AM »
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Got the plane and the Engine... finally decided to give it a try with DLE 35ra. Engine looks neat! First impressions are OK Smiley

20131116_214352.jpg
Re: DLE 35RA or DLE30? for Seagull Extra 260 180 ARF
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 11:37:30 AM »
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That's a "killer" plane. Poor bunny. Wink
Happy landings
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 12:25:18 PM »
samlikespad
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Thanks Girish  Grin I took the bunny (my little one's) without her knowing to lift the cowl up  Giggle

I hope the 35ra is engine enough for the extra. Breakin will be on a 18x8 and later on intend to move to a 20x8.
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 12:47:59 PM »
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I took the bunny (my little one's) without her knowing to lift the cowl up  Giggle


I do that all the time, here's a Jerry pilot from my little one's Kinder Joy collectibles (It was a perfect robbery, he still doesn't know... Giggle)

All the best, look forward to the video

20131120_195849.jpg
Re: DLE 35RA or DLE30? for Seagull Extra 260 180 ARF
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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 12:53:05 PM »
samlikespad
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lol ... will update once the bird is ready.
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 01:15:50 AM »
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A bit of progress Smiley . Mounted the engine, drilled and test fitted the prop. Couple of servos on the way ( decided to give Align DS615 a try).

20131203_223429.jpg
Re: DLE 35RA or DLE30? for Seagull Extra 260 180 ARF
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2013, 11:20:02 PM »
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Maiden-ed successfully Smiley

20131228_095007_127136.jpg
Re: DLE 35RA or DLE30? for Seagull Extra 260 180 ARF
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2013, 11:23:08 PM »
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wowww.. what a nice Rc filed Sam sir  Hats Off Hats Off
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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2013, 11:49:21 AM »
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Thanks Nitinraj (dear, "sir" is really not necessary: sam would do  Thumbs Up )! its fun flying there until its summer when the heat could hit well above 50  Grin

Video here :
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyt040et5QI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyt040et5QI</a>



Cant wait till next weekend to fly her again and have some fun with a bigger prop  if the engine breaks-in  Drool

20131228_110048.jpg
Re: DLE 35RA or DLE30? for Seagull Extra 260 180 ARF
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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2013, 11:21:04 PM »
K K Iyer
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@samlikespad Sir,
Anyone whose wing span exceeds his height deserves to be called Sir.
(Also anyone who has jumped out of an airplane at 11,000 ft)
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2013, 07:09:07 AM »
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good flight sam, good looking aeroplane too. Will i get to fly in when i come to KSA ?
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2013, 11:15:10 AM »
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@samlikespad Sir,
Anyone whose wing span exceeds his height deserves to be called Sir.
(Also anyone who has jumped out of an airplane at 11,000 ft)

lol ... thats a nice one. I would have built a bigger plane long back if I knew this earlier Wink
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2013, 11:17:22 AM »
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Thanks Gusty Bhai.... by all means dear big brother  Bow
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2014, 02:00:30 PM »
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Hey Guys,

I am building the same plane with DLE 35RA. Please let me know your experience with this engine, what setup & prop are you guys using. Any special advise for mounting the enigne. I am mounting the engine inverted keeping the center hole on firewall with the center of engine.

Kindly post the pics of your setup. Your suggestions are most welcome.

Thanks & Regards,
Anilesh
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Thanks and Regards,
Anilesh Rai
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FUTABA 10CAG|FUTABA 8FG SUPER|JR XG8|SEAGULL40|PIPER CUB 1/4 SCALE 20CC|SEAGULL EDGE 540 20CC|SEAGULL EXTRA260 35CC| GROOVY 90 3D|PILOT-RC SBACH 342 50CC|PILOT-RC EXTRA 330SC - 120CC|AEROWORKS EXTRA 300 20CC|AEROWORKS EXTRA 300 50CC|
 

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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2014, 07:18:00 PM »
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Hi Anilesh,

Congrats on your new plane! My setup is as mentioned above, 35RA, Dualsky Regulator, Zippy 2100 Rx pack, AR8000, Align 615 on AIL and RUD, Hitec 5625 on ELE and Hitec 425BB on Throttle. The aligns are crazy fast I love them. The Hitec on the ELE is OK for the time being but I might change them to Align or Savox soon.

I was using an 18x8 3D prop for breakin. I love everything about this plane except its tendency to snap! I know that such aerobats are prone to snapping, but this one (at least for me) is too much Sad Few weeks back I was doing some harrier rolls (it rolls beautifully by the way) and I brought it down the deck as our fellow flyers and a small crowd was cheering, while I was about to change from a righhand roll to a left roll, just about 15 feet high the stupid plane snapped and went directly for the ground. I did everything I could by levelling it up but it was too shallow to recover Sad belly landing it quite hard. Well the damages are easily fixable but the snapping tendency worries me. I knew this from day one but got carried away by the cheering and forgot Cheesy

Overall, I love the engine and it has lots of power compared to the 30. I will move on to a 20x6 or 20x8 once I am done fixing the LG, Motor mount and some damage to one part of the belly behind wings. Andy hey, I used the provided throttle flexible push rod and I think its helping reducing the vibration on the throttle servo. During your maiden, please look out for the snapping tendency. It might be just my plane having a wrong incidence or some other issues ( I intent to check using a fellow flier's incidence meter). Good luck with it and keep us posted.

Regards,

Sam.
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2014, 04:18:50 PM »
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Hi Anilesh, got your PM

Let me try to answer your questions one by one Smiley

1. I am using the same 2100 for both Rx and IGN to reduce weight. I fly 4 to 5 times a day and the recharge shows just about 400 to 500mah only! But I do have a Voltage meter attached to know the health of the battery and do check them between flights
2. I am using the small ones that came with Align but will change to bigger ones once I get my Savox servos
3. I will try to post some pics if I have any. I have mounted the Engine dead center to the FW hole. You could move it a bit to the left to make the Spinner center (which I didnt) I did add couple of extra washers to add a 2 degree right thrust as it was super torquey.
4. No need to worry about the snapping while maidening, it happens mostly when you bank the plane for a turn or you apply sudden ELE. What happens in my case is that the plane snaps to either side (tipstalling depending up on the banking side), goes inverted (part of the snap) unexpectedly. I had to force the opposite AIL to keeping it from snapping and diving to the ground. So just be cautious while you bank your plane. Most probably its my plane only as some times it happens with some batch. I just wanted you to be aware while you first try your plane. No need to be worried Smiley

Regards,

Sam.
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