I have a Seagull's Extra 260 180 size on the way. Am confused when it came to the engine selection  DLE 30 or DLE 35RA ? The plane weighs a bit more than its competitors making it very difficult to build with proper power/weight for 3D . Help and suggestions requested. Considering the fact that the 35 is a few oz more that 30, is the extra power of .4 HP worth the few oz? Frankly speaking am a bit inclined towards 35RA but same time worried as I wanted to end up some where around 10 to 11 pounds.

If you read up about the RA, you will find that people are having issues with the rear muffler, again cooling is also going to be issue as most of the muffler is hidden behind the engine. If you want to experiment, get the RA, if you want hassle free flying go for side exhaust.
And a 180 glow is about 30cc, so a 30 or 35cc petrol would not be enough power when compared to the glow 180 (if two stroke) but would be enough if the 180 is meant to be a 4 stroke   

Thanks flyingboxcar,

180 is 4-stroke. As per spec it should be 160 glow 2-stroke or 180 4-stroke. Which is roughly equivalent to 30cc. MY worry is the power to weight ratio . As you have kindly pointed, I have read that the rearward muffler causes mid air leaning causing engine shutdowns due to the close proximity to the carb. Am not that worried about cooling as my timer is always set to 10 minutes as I keep it as light as possible with less fuel for 3D practicing. I received the plane last day and hope to build it as lite as I could to keep the wing-loading low. My target AUW is less than 5Kg. DLE30 has a max pull of 17 lbs while the 35RA claims 19 or so lbs. The extra pull is good but I dont know how much is the weight penalty. As per their specs its few oz only. If any one has ever used one, please do share the actual weight.

Cooling will be an issue if you do not build baffles to direct air over the muffler that is hidden behind the big petrol head. Apart from the carb issues the muffler flange breaking off has been another issue. And 10 minutes or less is enough to cook an engine, especially when the engine is working hard in 3D maneuvers..
If you want to keep things light here is what you can do

Do not use multiple servos in the tail especially for elevators. You can join both the elevator halves and use one servo with appropriate torque. Or move the two servos to fuse near to CG and use pull pull for elevators as well. Mount the rudder servo as close to the CG as possible.

These would ensure that you have least amount of weight in the tail and may totally obviate any additional nose weight. And if that is the case then you can arrange your ignition, ig battery and Rx power packs accordingly     

Joining the ELE halves could be a pain as these extra 260s have them much into the fuse DLE as per other's should balance her but worth trying if it doesn't. Thanks a lot flyingboxcar! really appreciate your help and suggestions  .

Now about the cooling, what I meant is that I would take appropriate measures to ensure as much as possible to pass the air to the inner parts of the cowl hence am not worried   plus right now the weather is also cooperating. I will be using a much smaller gas tank as well as just enough battery to reduce the AUW. Seagulls are wellbuilt but as a result a bit heavier 

But still the original question is, is 35RA's additional weight (few oz though) and much higher price worth the additional .4 HP of power (which they claim) in my case? If the 35 has the same tuning issues as the 30, plus not much power difference (as its just about 400 rpm more than 30), then I could save both money and weight.

Watch this,
The guy does not do any 3D type aeros but has pointers for you on setup. From what I read at the comments the 30 will have the CG slightly ahead of the marked point so you can distribute the battery weight around, and you will save the extra weight of 35. I was you I would go with 30
And looking at the pictures the model does not look to be designed for pure 3D stuff. More for IMAC type flying. If you intend putting a gas engine and do any kind of hard flying another advice would be to replace the CA hinges with something more beefy  

This bird is best at IMAC, well-spotted flyingboxcar  I have gone through all the threads, youtube vids about this bird already including the above posted one. I have seen one with DLA32 



It has 3.8 HP compared to 3.7 of DLE 30. 35RA claims 4.1 . I hope that I could get similar thrust on DLE30 with a bigger prop (20x6 or 20x8).

The 3.8, 3.7 are all marketing bull.... do you know what prop they used to get those HP figure? What elevation, what temperature, what humidity, what oil, what octane petrol??
You got to suck and see for your conditions and usage. 

Thanks dear for the guidance.. I might go for DLE 30... if its not engine enough for the seagull.... may be I could find a lite enough airframe for it later

Got the plane and the Engine... finally decided to give it a try with DLE 35ra. Engine looks neat! First impressions are OK

That's a "killer" plane. Poor bunny.
Happy landings

Thanks Girish  I took the bunny (my little one's) without her knowing to lift the cowl up 

I hope the 35ra is engine enough for the extra. Breakin will be on a 18x8 and later on intend to move to a 20x8.

I do that all the time, here's a Jerry pilot from my little one's Kinder Joy collectibles (It was a perfect robbery, he still doesn't know... )

All the best, look forward to the video

lol ... will update once the bird is ready.

A bit of progress . Mounted the engine, drilled and test fitted the prop. Couple of servos on the way ( decided to give Align DS615 a try).

Maiden-ed successfully

wowww.. what a nice Rc filed Sam sir 

Thanks Nitinraj (dear, "sir" is really not necessary: sam would do  )! its fun flying there until its summer when the heat could hit well above 50 

Video here :


Cant wait till next weekend to fly her again and have some fun with a bigger prop  if the engine breaks-in 

@samlikespad Sir,
Anyone whose wing span exceeds his height deserves to be called Sir.
(Also anyone who has jumped out of an airplane at 11,000 ft)

good flight sam, good looking aeroplane too. Will i get to fly in when i come to KSA ?

lol ... thats a nice one. I would have built a bigger plane long back if I knew this earlier

Thanks Gusty Bhai.... by all means dear big brother 

Hey Guys,

I am building the same plane with DLE 35RA. Please let me know your experience with this engine, what setup & prop are you guys using. Any special advise for mounting the enigne. I am mounting the engine inverted keeping the center hole on firewall with the center of engine.

Kindly post the pics of your setup. Your suggestions are most welcome.

Thanks & Regards,
Anilesh

Hi Anilesh,

Congrats on your new plane! My setup is as mentioned above, 35RA, Dualsky Regulator, Zippy 2100 Rx pack, AR8000, Align 615 on AIL and RUD, Hitec 5625 on ELE and Hitec 425BB on Throttle. The aligns are crazy fast I love them. The Hitec on the ELE is OK for the time being but I might change them to Align or Savox soon.

I was using an 18x8 3D prop for breakin. I love everything about this plane except its tendency to snap! I know that such aerobats are prone to snapping, but this one (at least for me) is too much Few weeks back I was doing some harrier rolls (it rolls beautifully by the way) and I brought it down the deck as our fellow flyers and a small crowd was cheering, while I was about to change from a righhand roll to a left roll, just about 15 feet high the stupid plane snapped and went directly for the ground. I did everything I could by levelling it up but it was too shallow to recover belly landing it quite hard. Well the damages are easily fixable but the snapping tendency worries me. I knew this from day one but got carried away by the cheering and forgot

Overall, I love the engine and it has lots of power compared to the 30. I will move on to a 20x6 or 20x8 once I am done fixing the LG, Motor mount and some damage to one part of the belly behind wings. Andy hey, I used the provided throttle flexible push rod and I think its helping reducing the vibration on the throttle servo. During your maiden, please look out for the snapping tendency. It might be just my plane having a wrong incidence or some other issues ( I intent to check using a fellow flier's incidence meter). Good luck with it and keep us posted.

Regards,

Sam.

Hi Anilesh, got your PM

Let me try to answer your questions one by one

1. I am using the same 2100 for both Rx and IGN to reduce weight. I fly 4 to 5 times a day and the recharge shows just about 400 to 500mah only! But I do have a Voltage meter attached to know the health of the battery and do check them between flights
2. I am using the small ones that came with Align but will change to bigger ones once I get my Savox servos
3. I will try to post some pics if I have any. I have mounted the Engine dead center to the FW hole. You could move it a bit to the left to make the Spinner center (which I didnt) I did add couple of extra washers to add a 2 degree right thrust as it was super torquey.
4. No need to worry about the snapping while maidening, it happens mostly when you bank the plane for a turn or you apply sudden ELE. What happens in my case is that the plane snaps to either side (tipstalling depending up on the banking side), goes inverted (part of the snap) unexpectedly. I had to force the opposite AIL to keeping it from snapping and diving to the ground. So just be cautious while you bank your plane. Most probably its my plane only as some times it happens with some batch. I just wanted you to be aware while you first try your plane. No need to be worried

Regards,

Sam.

Hi Anilesh,

Hope your build is complete! FYI, I solved the snappy tendency ( or at least reduced it greatly) by adding more right thrust. I noticed that the snapping is more to the left. Experimented with more right thrust and bingo! she started behaving much better.

Regards,

Sameer.

Hi Sameer,

Thanks for your response. Sorry for replying late as i was out if India for a while. My plane is almost done. Please find the attached pictures and advise if everything is correct. I have tried my best to follow your guidelines.

1.Engine is slightly mounted left for centering the spinner.

2.Added right thrust i.e one washer should i add more or after maiden flight.Please advise

3.Tank shifted back towards CG and then follows the electronic setup. I have added rudder tray so its bit tail heavy now. I am thinking to add
   a little weight or keep battery in front the later on will shift for hovering.what say?

4.I have installed Align DS615, i have noticed servos are making loud noise, buzzing sound, when they are at idle as well as moving. Is it
    normal?

Hows the review of DX9 I am planning to buy this TX.Stay tuned for maiden flight will post more pictures :-)

Hi Anilesh,

Glad to hear that! Dear, my response below.

1. Mounting the engine a tiny bit to the left is a personal preference, not mandatory
2. I recommend two washers to begin with
3. As per your pics, the tank is still ahead of CoG (once empty will be tail heavy if not balanced empty). I did not use rudder tray as the provided slot was more than adequate with one DS615. This plane has a lot of Rudder authority. I did keep my battery upfront to keep the CoG where I wanted without adding additional weight. Still I ended up adding a bit on the nose to get the CoG neutral or just a tad bit to the nose.
4. Digital servos like the DS615 will chatter a lot as they constantly try to center, its quite normal

And hey, do make sure to push the plug al the way in tightly, to tie the plug wire, and it as well as the CDI unit should not rub against any metal.

Am loving the DX9 so far and heard they have increased the price by $50!!!

Regards,

Sameer.

Hi Sameer,

Thanks for your response.

I'll add one more washer to begin with.

Actually after installing rudder tray there was no spsce left for tank.If you could post your pics.

Where have you balanced your COG from the leading edge? Are you balancing it inverted?

Battery i have kept under the tank.Do you recommend shifting the tank or anything else that i can alter.

Regards,

Anilesh

Hi Sam,

I have mounted the ignition under the firewall and have covered the ignition wire with plastic sleeve & have make sure its not touching any metal part.

I haven't started the engine yet but i have noticed, ignition is making noise when i flick it but i am not able to see any spark with naked eye whereas other DLE engine give good visible spark and noise. Is there anything to worry about?

Have you done reed valve mod on the engine ?

Dear Anilesh,

The ignition spark is usually visible if you look closely. Make sure that the kill switch is armed, grounding is proper. I will get back to you with the CoG reference tonight. And by the way, I used a smaller tank to fit in infront of the wing tube. The stock one is too big to play around.

Regards,

Sameer.

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your reply.

Could you also let me know how do you arm and ground the kill switch. I have simply followed the manual.

Regards/Anilesh

Hello Sameer,

Today, i started the engine...its a beast..lot of power!! What oil are you using and mixture ratio?

This engine started with one flip giving smooth transition, turning xoar 18x8 , idling at 1700 rpm and peak 7400 rpm.

How did you break in this engine and what prop size are you using ?

Regards,

Anilesh

Hi Anilesh, sorry I was away on a trip and missed your posts Congrats on your progress  . I use my GEAR channel for the kill switch and assigned the right side further back long switch(spektrum). Please dont be tempted to use the throttle kill option as this deactivates the throttle servo movement only.

I used Servo 2T in recommended proportion, tuned (kept it slightly rich) and flew. I prefer to fly the planes in moderate speeds for breaking-in. May be our forum experts could chime in on this. And hey, the first problem I encountered from the 35RA is the stupid 120 degree plug adapter. If in doubt, you could use a hose clamp ( the one with screw tightening) to hold the plug cap firmly in place instead of relying on the clamp ring. And about the CG, honesty I forgot to check the manual and kept it very nose heavy by balancing it neutral at fist on the blue line at wing tips. Later I moved the CG bit by bit backwards to suite my liking.

Regards,

Sameer.

Hi Anilesh,

Have you sorted out your chocke butterfly issue? Have you maidened?

Regards,

Sameer.

Sent u pm

Dear Anilesh,
First of all I would like to say that you have done a good job building your airplane. I noticed that the fuel tank is little ahead, near the fire wall, just the way we mount in most of our glow airplanes. Since you are using a gas engine I would advive you to shift it back near the wing tube because generally the CG of the airplane is either their or very close to it and since gas engine carburator has a diaphragm for fuel supply, so in other words it will pull fuel from the fuel tank even if the tank is 2 feet away from the engine and also hight of the tank is irrelevant in case of gas engines. Doing this there would be minimal change in the CG when the fuel gets consumed during the flight. Whereas if the fuel tank is in front then as the fuel starts to burn the nose gets lighter and you will notice that the airplane starts to climb.
In case of 2 stroke oil I would advice you to use mineral oil such as SERVO 2T oil which is available at any petrol pump in your city. Use atleast 5 liters of this fuel for breaking in. During this time just fly your airplane on half throttle and level flight, please do not put much load on the engine, also small flights resulting the engine to cool quicker. Also using mineral oil will help the oil seals in your engine to set properly which would result in trouble free flying.
Once this is done then you can switch to synthetic oil such as MOTUL 800 which is available for Rs.750 for a liter. This 2 stroke oil is used in all the imported motorcycle available in our country. This oil is french made and resonable.
In 3 liters of petrol add 100ml of this oil for both, breaking in and when using synthetic oil.
Also if I am not wrong then you are using 6.6volt LiFe battery packs, if yes then you dont need to use a voltage regulator. Most digital servos today available support 6volt input and the same goes for DLE ignitions. In fact the new ones supports 2 cell input if I am not wrong, kindly refer to the side of the ignition to check the input voltage.
If further you have any quary please feel free and just ask
Happy landings
Take care
Regards,
Jamal Ahmad

Words of wisdom

Jamal writes "Intermediate" but he's about as expert as expert goes.

Great advice Jamal

Dears,

I have been in constant touch with him for this setup over PMs. Though I mentioned the CoG and position of the tank, unfortunately he doesn't have a spare smaller tank as the stock one wont fit close to the wing tube. Anyway, wonderful write-up Jamal. Much helpful for people doing similar setups.

Regards,

Sameer.

Dear Sanjay Ji,
In this hobby you learn every day, in fact a new person some times might be of a great help. We should always have a open mind.
Thank you
Happy landing
Regards 

Dear Sameer,
Yes you are absolutely correct these stock fuel tank does trouble us when we try to shift its original place, thats why I highly recommend using Dubro fuel tanks, since it has got a flat base and you get then in ever size as per our need. All you need to be careful of the rubber stopper at the neck of the tank. Black color is for glow and the Brown one is for gas.
1. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD755&P=7 - For gas this fits in all sizes from Dubro
2. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD756&P=7 - for glow

I have read all your post and you have been a great help not only to Anilesh but all those people who have been following the post shared between both of you.
Trust me it help the person who is building or planning to get the same aircraft with identical setup.
Great job.
Regards,
Jamal Ahmad

 

haaaaa........Sweet

Thanks a lot Jamal for the detailed write up & Sam for endless support.

This hobby needs guys like you who are always there to help the beginners. Trust me, when an experienced aero modeler, who had already been through all these setups gives you right advice & right direction, it really motivates the other person and gives him a confidence that he is on the right track.Thanks a lot guys. Much appreciated.     

I have got 16oz dubro tank and will install it near wing tube. Pics and video shall follow soon.

Happy Landings.

All that I could understand is

 Wink Pics and video shall follow soon. Smiley

 

Video and pics please .................................

Hi Anilesh, did you sort out your glitch issue? Videos man?