RC India

Hi everyone,
I wanted to check in if anyone has flown/owned a Phoenix Extra .60 Airplane. I "May" consider one for myself. Just need assurance on the build/flying characteristics of this airplane.
This is the one :
http://www.gravesrc.com/PHOENIX_MODELS_Extra_330S_61_91_Sport_Aerobatic_p/pmma0570.htm
Thank you for sharing your views with me on this.
Gaurav

I have seen one with a friend in Chennai.  I heard it is a bit heavy for 3D!! I dont exactly remember the power setup on it, but I think it was a .90 4 stroke!  It has been flown extensively and retired in pristine condition.  The only negative comment I got on it was the weight factor!! Better take a look at lighter options before taking the plunge!

- Chan

Thanks Chan,
The Phoenix Extra specifies a flying weight of 3500gms
http://paylessflymore.com/proddetail.asp?prod=G2/AS/0026

The other options is BRC : http://bombayrc.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=28
This one says a flying weight of 3000gms .. now the wingspan is the same.

I have owned other products of Phoenix models and have found them to be excellent value for money and build quality. Not sure about the BRC.

Plus does anyone know any other 60 size Extra options ?

BTW, i plan to power this with a .90 2 stroke .

Thanks !

Hi Gaurav,

The Phoenix build quality is very good.  I had the Funstar remember!! But this particular model was heavy when compared to another extra with the same person.  The other Extra was from Fliton models! This was powered with a .90 pumped four stroke!!   I think the BRC model will be lighter but you might have to compensate a bit on quality as the BRC models are found to be a bit fragile! My Nitro Planes 50cc is from BRC!  I have a .50 size YAK from Indian Hobbies that looks amazing but is also pretty fragile!!

And I personally think that the .90 2 stroke would be too much for it! I know instances in Chennai where the wings of a Funstar has been ripped by running it on a .60 instead of a .46!! So putting in a .90 four stroke would be much better for 3D.. Or go in for a model that is rated for .60 to .90! I dont think anyone in India has a good 3D model in that category right now except for payless and BRC! Also let me know if you decide on a model as I am also hunting for a good setup for a .60 2 stroke!

- Chan

Exactly.
I just saw a BRC .50 YAK , and found the build quality to be quite fragile.
The Phoenix Extra is rated .60 - .90 , so that is another reason a plan on using .90 2 stroke .
Perhaps the .90 2 stroke would have enough power to compensate the extra weight ?

I am leaning towards getting the Phoenix extra from Payless , inspite of the additional weight, i would get a good build, that means less repairs, and more of flight time. I read reviews on RCU about this, and people have reported good flying characterics, with no tip stalling or problems with dead-sticks.

IndianHobbies doesnt seem to have any planes in that category, and i am not sure about the BRC model quality.
If there are any other vendors who offer a plane in the class i am looking for, please let me know.

Thank you
Gaurav

Sure Gaurav.. would let you know if I come across any good deals..

- Chan

Gaurav

Check out the Extra 300S from Jack's Hobbies. This should be great with a 90 4C. They have a bigger one also.

Lovely colour scheme too!

My limited experience with Seagull models has been pretty good.

My brother who flies airplanes and goes through many second hand planes has been through multiple Seagull models. He had good things to say about them all.

I am very disappointed/upset today.
I had ordered the Phoenix models Extra 60 a couple of months back, and though the box looked battered at the time it came, there was little apparant damage. But when i opened today to build the Fuse seems to be all whacked out, and the ribs within the wings are all broken too.
Will write to Paylessflymore tomorrow, and hopefully they can give a refund/replacement.
Just very upset today as i thought to build this airplane and start a thread...

Chch.....really sad to hear that!
I guess thats more of the problem with the totally unprofessionals courier/cargo system in our country. I had excellent experience with USPS/UPS service in the US over a dozen shipping and none of in my friend circle has ever reported any such incident.

May be LHS should put some more re-enforcement while shipping the ARF/RTF... don't they come packed between thermocol ? Sorry to ask this as I have still to get a bird.

gauravag,

really sad to hear that !!

can you post pics, how was it shipped and by which courier company, how was the quality of packing etc.

Ok, pics attached.
Courier company was Trackon. But the shocking thing was how badly the ARF was packed.
I wouldnt blame the courier company here, as the way Paylessflymore had packed the airplane was the root cause of this.
The original airplane box was battered and was not sturdy enough. The outer box should have been a rigid sturdy box, and not a thin brown wrapping, which did nothing to protect the delicate airframe inside.

I have dealt with many other companies ( and Paylessflymore also ), but here the packing was horrible and i am so pissed off with this !
I wrote them an email, lets see what they respond with. The staff there knows nothing about airplanes, so lets see what they have to see.

-Gaurav

That is heartbreaking.  Hopefully PLFM would do the right thing for you, and this episode is an exception than the rule.

Hope so . here is the pic of the box as it came !

Just checked up few sites. The Paylessflymore site a)does not have a return policy and b)there are hardly any details of the product.

There are other Indian sites that do have a return policy but then how to avail it? Lets say Gaurav gets a package that has broken parts, the supplier can still claim that it is not their fault. For example the site RCDhamaka has the following line as a refund policy

"All refunds require that the item be returned in the original packaging, with all pieces and in original condition unused & without any scratch.

So technically speaking, the situation that Gaurav is in does not qualify for a return/refund.

Besides the buyer has to pay for the packing and postage for return thereby adding to the cost further.

I personally feel that scales are tilted to be too much against the buyer.

Pankaj

I sympathise with Gaurav but the problem is as much to do with the shipping company. The only way - in future - is to insure the package.

And as Gaurav himself has said, he does not seem to have had trouble with PLFM earlier. But I also do agree that there should have been an outer carton that would have offered additional protection.

The next problem would be the added cost of this "protection" - and insurance - if needed to be added. I am sure ANY responsible store would provide this if it was paid for.

Or at least the LHSs must have a clear policy that they are not responsible for damages in transit. And that they ensure that whatever is sent is in good shape before it was shipped.

I have had parts missing or parts that came "dud on arrival" for some purchases from LHS. No point asking as you (as a buyer) end up having to "prove" that you are not at fault.

We certainly do not want this turning into a PLFM bashing thread. 

But if that box got shipped just like that, with no special instructions to the courier company to be extra careful and cautioning them to be liable for damages; then there is a problem.  An LHS that routinely deals with such items should know and do better. 

Of course this could be just be "broken promises of exceptional care during transport" by the courier company, so it is prudent to wait for the LHS to respond.

Well, i never ask any company from whom i purchase with to compromise on shipping or cut costs. Those who have dealt with me would surely know that. For me getting my plane in top condition is the priority. So its LHS' job to make sure it is done right.
PLFM is good, and they still have the best prices, but the issue is that the guys whom we deal with ( staff ) know very little about airplanes. Its just 'goods' for them, that when they get an order pack and ship.

Packing an airplane ARF needs some intelligence too.If you put thermacol sheets on top and bottom of the ARF box and then put it inside a bigger second box that is very flimsy and flexible, those sheets are not going to help. The outside box needs to be rigid so that the weight on top of it is distributed towards the corners and then downwards towards the base. The pressure should not come inside the box.
Plus, i had ordered some accy which was nicely put inside the ARF box, though i think it dod not do any damage, but it could have caused major damage.

BTW, i sent them the pictures on an email but they have not replied back. I had sent them a mail the day i got the ARF and they said "Sorry for inconvenience" .
I tried calling them, and no one seems to be picking up. Will try again tomorrow.

I am not against PLFM, and i know that earlier they had sent replacements too, and i hope this is settled nicely.
-Gaurav

Ok, spoke to them today. They apologized and said that they will let me know tomorrow on what can be done.
So lets see what tomorrow will hold !

-Gaurav

Good news so far.....  :thumbsup:

How did this get sorted out?

Pankaj

I believe its good we all do an "Box Opening Video" before/while opening the package. This should be used as proof of 'broken on arrival'. In such cases LHS should replace it accepting it as their fault of mispackaging. How they deal with the courier is upto them.

I am a huge computer fan and this is what happens when people sell second hand computer items to others. They had an agreement that its the sellers responsibility to properly ship it and inform the "Properly shipped" price to the buyer before shipping. For example, one of the my friend purchased a second hand graphics card (12,000 worth) and it was not pacakaged properly by the seller and the card got bent due to the weight of the heat sink. Now how is the buyer responsible for that??? :argue:

So I think it should be the sellers responsibility to make sure that things should reach safely to the buyer. And on the other hand the buyer should be honest and make an box opening video always. I believe every one has a camera at home these days, if not atleast a mobile that records video ;D

Hope this rule helps.

Another in the wishlist of 'Where LHS should improve on'. The 'Unpacking video is a good idea Vinay, but in our country even video evidence is not enough for prosecution. Where would you go? I doubt R/C sale even comes under 'Consumer Court' ?

The LHS should understand that in the age of online shopping, the age old accounting funda of "Sale is made once payment recieved and article goes out of shop" and Forget?? Now with the advent of Plastic money and online shop, when sellers are getting more volume due to plastic money (may be still not for RC LHS, nevertheless, had it been today, legendry India Hobby Center, must have been the best LHS and not shut it doors), and the online shopping brings down showroom/staff cost. Now given two advange on seller side, the paradigm should change to 'Sale happens ... when the good reaches the customer"

The problem is Indian businessmen hypocrisy of putting a poster of 'Customer is God' in their shops when the customer experience in the country is one of the worst in the world. It should be LHS's **complete** responsibly  to carefully choose a decent courier, strike a good deal (as if they don't bargain?) and get best service for customer sake. Shabby packing should be straightforwardly sellers responsibility, from which they cant run on any context. They should learn how beautifully online seller in west pack the items, and even HC does a far decent job! Because at the end of the day its WE from whose pocket the money goes.

When the LHS are de-centrallized (not thru e-Bay), its forum like these where flyers should maintain the thread of "LHS Score" by  constantly updating good and bad purchases with LHS. Its much beeter than bloggin/Orkutting as it serves two purpoise:

1. Your voice would be heard by LHS as his bad attitude would come in open, and he better close the deal properly, not like missed calls
2. If your complain is not heard, it would put a Red flag for other potential buyers.
3. A Good review is a good thing for everybody! People might be lazy to report a good experience but its important.

 
Thankfully there are few LHS who are having courier service from one the Leaders -TNT and they are making it FREE as well. Hope to hear from people about their shipping experience. I have the luxury of picking up from thier store - alas they store more ARFs!! Sigh!!

My suggestions were not only for LHS, but should also apply to second hand sellers/buyers.

Hmm.... too much of anger/frustration.

Come to think of it, Gaurav had a problem and I was trying to find out whether or not it was resolved properly. If you read the post, the seller had apologized and had assured to redress the problem.

Are we not reacting in haste before determining the outcome? Its true that we get duped sometimes, but then this phenomenon is not limited to our country alone. It happens everywhere. However, by and large, percentage of fair transactions it huge compared to the fraudulent ones.

So back to Gaurav, on how did this get sorted out?

Pankaj

Well, I am still waiting for a resolution here. I havent had the time lately to follow up too much, but i did speak to them, and they said they are working on it.
I guess its good that they are"working" on it and not saying that nothing can be done...

Hey Gaurav!!!
Its been a month, anything positive coming out from the vendor PLFM? We have another thread going on the mpowershopping and I just remembered you had similar problems with Paylessflymore

Pankaj

Nothing yet unfortunately. I spoke to them just day before yesterday and they said that they will settle it soon.
Of course i had no alternative to wait, and thats what I am doing. I cannot put any kind of pressure on them, and the only good thing is that they are still hopeful that they will do something about it.

Just so that we do not let a LHS get away with poor service....

Gaurav, any update? Is it resolved?

Anwar, should we not stop the banner or PLFM till this is resolved? Thereby exerting some indirect pressure on the vendor as well...

Pankaj

Pankaj,
PLFM have assured that they would send me a replacement. In fact i am surprised why its still not here. Perhaps i need to follow up with them again.

Lets not stop the banner for this, PLFM has given great products to Indian Aeromodellors at very reasonable prices. I am sure they will send me the replacement.

I will keep everyone posted on what happens here further.

-Gaurav