RC India

hi Guys,

I crashed my 450 V2 RTF heli few days ago. I'm trying to build them from scratch so that i understand it better.

I'm trying to remove the main rotor holder (The holder to which we attach the main blades). I need to get the feathering shaft to check for bends. but the screws are damn hard to remove. I'm getting a feeling permanent loctite is used there. Anyone has any ideas to remove it ? .

Rotor holder is plastic so i doubt if i can heat it .. Please let me know.

Thanks and Regards,
Srivatsa

You need to use 2 tools like 2 hex drivers to open (one on each end) ,if these are socket nuts then you need 2 of those to open up the blade grips holding the feathering.

Do not heat it.

Post some pictures if possible it will help determine the issue.

Hellyflyer

place a hot soldering rod on one of the screws for sometime and unscrew it.. take care not to touch the plastic main rotor holder

hi mate.
to check for bent feathering shaft quickly..........
put your tool in one grip and turn the shaft holding the grips. if the shaft is bent ...even slightly.......... one [or both ] of the grips will go up/down and side to side as you turn the shaft.
regards
don

Hi.

The screws on feathering shaft are hex. I tried used hex drivers on both ends to open. It didn't budge from its place.

I used my needle soldering gun to heat the screw and tried to open. But no use its damn tight :(

The shaft is bent. I tried to turn the feathering shaft with hex driver on both ends. when i turn the shaft both the grips move up and down.

I need to replace them. But the screws are given me a head ache  :banghead:

Any ideas ?

Thanks and Regards,
Srivatsa

hi mate.
sounds like they have done what they did on mine when I got it a few years ago. [they used red locktight or similar.

your only option to save the head would be to cut the shaft with a saw between the blade grip and the head center block.
you got a dremil or know some one with one?
they have a very thin cutting disk that would do it.......... I still have the head off mine with the bent shaft in......... I changed the head in the end.
regards
don

i got a new head. couldn't remove it:(

Another situation This time i created it. Now same thing has happened to my tail. i screwed it tightly with loctite 243 and tail is stuck hard. Something is holding the tail rotor holder's moments. Pitch is hard to change. I cant remove it. The screw got stripped  :banghead: This is getting very frustrated. :(

Hi
the 450 V2 beginners kit is a great value for money and for learning 450 class helis, but unfortunately very delicate to crashes. You could almost bend everything from main-shaft, feathering-shaft, or even the main frame in a crash. In a hard landing,
you can easily bend the tail-shaft as the vertical-fin isn't all that straight & strong. I guess RCB doesn't stock it's spares, but all of the Hiller 450 V2 parts are 100% compatible, except for the feathering shaft.

If you're unable to get the tail-pitch moving smoothly, then it could be any of the collar-screws on the tail-pitch assembly that's too tight, try loosening some. Check for freeness of the tail-rotor control arm for screw tightness.
It could also be excess loctite somewhere, check.

If that isn't the problem, then check the tail-shaft for any bends by rotating the rotors and watching the tail-pitch slider for
any wobble. If you can, try and replace the v2's tail shaft with that of the hiller v2's. If you're going that far, then you may even get the 450 PRO's Tail-blade grips, which are weighted and give you more tail authority.

Regards

I want to build a heli 450 and I have plans to get all the parts from hobbykings expect theTx/Rx unit to  avoid customs problem. I have some clarification to of the parts, Below are the parts:

Heli Kit: HK450 CCPM 3D Helicopter Kit (Align T-rex Compat.) Ver. 2
servo: Turnigy TG9e 9g / 1.5kg / 0.10sec Eco Micro Servo   
ESC: TURNIGY Plush 40amp Speed Controller
Brushless Motor: 2830-3800kv Brushless Outrunner (Heli)
Gyro: Hobby King 401B AVCS Digital Head Lock Gyro
lipo: Turnigy 2200mAh 3S 20C Lipo Pack

1. Will these part good and perfect for inter compatibility, any suggestion to different parts.
2. Can I give as a single order or make it to multiple orders to avoid customs issue (Heli kit separately and other units separately).

Just forgot to add 1 more clarification.  Which mode of import can I choose "Air parcel" or "EMS Express"

Hi purush

If it's 450 class or 500, i'd suggest you to have a look at RcBazaar, they have some excellent kits, verymuch similar to
HK's, all OEM products, and compatible with Align TREX parts. The price to quality is excellent.
They can ship ti chennai in a day, so why wait for weeks and then the customs clearence.
I have a 450V2 and a beginner 450 ccpm, all excellent products from RCB.

They have good Tx's which come with receivers, all 2.4 g.

Here's all the links
450, 500 Kit
http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/51-electric-helicopter-kits.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/51-electric-helicopter-kits.aspx)

Cyclic servos
http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/800-avionic-hi-speed-metal-gear-9g-servo-avd90mg.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/800-avionic-hi-speed-metal-gear-9g-servo-avd90mg.aspx)

Rudder servo
http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/802-avionic-av590-hi-speed-digital-24g-servo.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/802-avionic-av590-hi-speed-digital-24g-servo.aspx)

ESC's
http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/47-escs-becs.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/47-escs-becs.aspx)

Motors
http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/44-brushless-motors.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/44-brushless-motors.aspx)

Gyros
http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/68-gyros.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/68-gyros.aspx)

Lipos
http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/71-batteries-lipo-safe-bags.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/category/71-batteries-lipo-safe-bags.aspx)

I guess lipos are out of stock, but must be back soon, check with them.

Also suggest looking at the complete build off video by sajju here
http://www.rcindia.org/helis/rcbazaar-hiller-450v2-build-series/ (http://www.rcindia.org/helis/rcbazaar-hiller-450v2-build-series/)

- satish

Hi  guys
after a long time building the heli i finally started the trial. i had crashed heli indoor   :P after the crash i replaced the damaged parts removed all parts and put everything together. now , i found that that the heli spins vigorously anti clockwise.  really not sure why  :headscratch: please  help  ???

play around with your gyro, try reversing it and check..

CF

I'm assuming you have ensured the tail belt drive is correctly installed.
So you actually get a CCW rotation when main blades go CW. If not pls
set this correct first.

Firstly ensure the rudder channel is set correctly without gyro. If reversed, reverse the channel on the Tx settings.
Then connect gyro and check the same. Then test by moving the tail and veryfygyro compensation is in correct dir. If reversed, then use the reverse switch on the gyro only.

If all of these are ok and still getting heavy spins...checkif in rate mode, then
move the tail servo on the boom until the spinning stops.
This will result in a slight tail blade pitch to right. Then switch to HH mode and
now use only the Gain knob to get a head hold.

Hope this helps.
satish

Would someone please explain how to switch between Rate and Heading Hold modes on a 450 V2 Heli? Standard set up using a HK Tx/Rx and HK 401B Gyro.

Thanks.

On your HK Tx, I guess it's the VR-B Knob. First make sure the gain control from gyro is connected to ch-5 on your Rx.
Then switch on Tx and turn the VR-B knob on TX one way and connect esc to battery on the heli, if the gyro led goes solid red, then you are in HH mode. Just keep turning the VR-B until the led goes off, thats the point between Rate mode and HH mode. If you continue turning the knob, you increase the gain in Rate mode. Do all tail pitch setting in rate mode with about 5-20% gain (using the VR-B). You can be sure you're in rate mode just by moving the rudder stick on your Tx left-right-center, and your tail pitch slider will always re-center. In HHmode (solid red led on gy), when you do the same the slider will not return to center.

- satish

Satish, firstly thanks for trying to help out.

However :

1. VR A/B switches, on the HK 6 Ch TX, can only be used to adjust the Pitch of the main blades.

2. GY 401B is not going into Solid Red / HH mode after making manual adjustments to the pot on the Gyro.

3. Tail slider moves in the right direction and self centres. I guess, Rate Mode is working fine.

Regards.

I guess if the Tx came with T6CONFIG software, you can set it up in Mix1 set to CH5 as follows -
    First make sure you
    Set Endpoint/travel adjust for CH5 to 100/100
    Set Subtrim for CH5 to 0
    Set VR(B) to NULL
   
    Then
    Enable MIX 1 as follows
    Source VRB
    Destination CH5
    Up Rate 100
    Down Rate 100
    Switch ON

Regards
- satish

Makes sense! Thanks a ton, will give this a try and get back. :thumbsup:

How to check if rudder channel is set correctly?

when I spin main blade clockwise tail rotor spins counter clockwise do I'm assuming its correct
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Guys please help... I have never flown this thing since I brought :-(

Guys,

I'm currently building my heli 450v2 and I have a clarification. I have purchase the below parts.

Turnigy L2822-3700 Brushless Heli Motor 420w(http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18538)
TURNIGY Plush 40amp Speed Controller (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2165)
ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh 3S1P 25C (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7636)

My question is with the above brushless motor and ESC 40amp controller, can use 25C battery or Do I need to use only 20C battery.

Based on HK battery info "For example; A 20C battery can discharge at 20 x 2,000mAh which is 40,000mAh or 40Amp".

In my case 25 x 2200mAh  which is 55,000mAh or 55Amp, Please clarify.

I have another question too.

can we use lipo batteried in Turnigy 9x transmitter, what mAh batteries.

Thanks,
Purush

Srivatsa
If you rotate your main rotor clockwise and your tail rotor spins counterclockwise then your belt drive is installed correctly.
To check if your rudder channel is set correctly - connect your rudder servo to your Rx channel 4. Now when you move your rudder stick to the right the trailing edge of the tail blades should move towards the right. Similarly if you move the rudder stick to the left the trailing edge should move to the left of the heli. So the direction of the trailing edge should reflect the direction of the heli nose on application of a rudder input. If it is the opposite then go into the Tx menu and reverse channel 4. For a clear illustrated explanation check Sujju's Hiller 450 build videos and Bob Finless Align 450 build videos.
Please do as much reading as possible to understand how these things work.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Pradeep

the amp rating for esc is for the motor.

a higher c rating is most of the time better in helicopters

Need Some Help................

I got my Heli built, I have a problem after setting up the Rudder.

When I move the rudder stick left/right, the tail slider moves to left/right and when I leave the stick, the tail slider stats in the in the same direction I moved, i.e, the tail slidet is not coming back to center when I leave the stick.  I have the video which shows my problem..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNmBH8huNF0&feature=youtu.be


problem No:2

when I try to program the motor with ECS, I'm able to go to the programming mode and getting all the programmable item beep some. From programmable item I can go to programmable value(break/battery/cutoff threshold etc,.). when I try to get the programmable value, the ESC is not recognizing the value set even after throttle stick up, it juct repeat with 1 and 2 beep and not able to come back to programmable item mode.........

please Help......

 

Problem 1 is NOT a problem if you are using a heading hold gyro in HH mode.  If you put the gyro in rate mode, it will return immediately. 

For issue [2], I believe what you described seems normal.  The manual of your ESC should tell you the expected beep responses, and how the cycle of programming ends.

HI Anwar,

I have solved the issue with ESC programming...

but not able to setup the gyro to rate mode, I'm using turnigy 9x Tx/Rx  and dont find option gyro mode under gryo setup in the transmitter. Please correct me if wrong..

http://www.rcindia.org/for-sale/hk-450-tt-pro-3d-torque-tube-helicopter-kit-bundled-offer/

hi,

I have one issue.  I was tuning the cyclic on my 450V2 heli. The is one discrepancy in the elevator setting, elevator stick full forward gives me a pitch of 5 degrees where as when the stick is full backwards, i get a pitch of 6 degrees.

Is this fine? if not how do i correct it ?  :headscratch:

thanks and Regards,
Srivatsa

This issue can be fixed by playing with your travel adjust settings or from the swash mix menue.

I don't think that the above will resolve the issue as playing with the end points will also effect collective and ail cyclic. Also the swash mixing will affect both the ends of the cyclic pitch unless you want 5.5 deg in both ends.  My doubts here is that your swash is not level at all the centre or also pls recheck tracking on both the blades first.

Sujju

Thank you sir, i'll check and let you know. one more quick question, is it necessary to check if swash is leveled at throttle center ?

i thought we check the swash level at "throttle minimum" and "throttle maximum" and make adjustments using the sub trims. Swash interactions at the center may not be level because of different servo interactions at different levels ? (cyclic servos moving differently at different throttle levels) Please let me know.

I'll track the blade and get back.

thanks and regards,
Srivatsa

hi Srivatsa... the swash has to be level at all points of travel.. be it top or mid or bottom.. (min these 3 points atleast)... ideally the swash should be level even between these point but its very difficult to to this and for accuracy many people use the bubble level method and place it on the flybar paddle as it amplifies any small abberations on the swash movement... and the swash has to be level in the centre as your cyclics measurements have to be taken when its at the centre...

sujju

Thank you sir.. I think i missed checking at the center. i'll check and get back.

Thanks and Regards,
Srivatsa

Hi,

I found some time yesterday and tried tracking the blades. It looks "ok". I also found the Heli spins very badly. The plane of rotation or the Main blades wobbles. I have captured the video hope it helps you guys to diagnose the problem.

Video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MwRYoVqGLQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MwRYoVqGLQ)

video 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88eHc2T-JsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88eHc2T-JsU)

Next,i'll open the head and check for swash level.

Thanks and Regards,
Srivatsa

Tracking seems to be great.
Pls increase the gain on the radio of the gyro if this does not work reverse the dir (direction) switch on the gyro and it will hold the heli.
Regarding the wobble I don't get the query. Pla give pm me your telephone number and I will call you

Regards
Sujju

You need to balance your main blades to remove the wobble :thumbsup:

Sorry for the late reply.. sir, in that video blades keep moving up and down.
 i.e

Left end goes up Right end goes down ,
Right end goes up Left end goes down. [Like a see-saw].

This is was i was referring to as wobble. i have pm'ed my telephone number. i think we have spoken once :)

The blade disc tilt seems to be moving around synchronously when the tail is going around. Which just means that your skids and blade disc is not in the same plane. This is common, nothing to worry about. Make sure the swash is level ie perpendicular to the main shaft, that is all that matters.

yippee , reversing the DIR on the heli worked , thank you for that suggestion  :salute: .. i pushed the throttle to 25% and no spinning. i'll take it outdoor and see how it flies. i'm a newbee in RC itself leave alone heli. After crashing the heli indoor last time (and bruising myself ).. too scared to increase the throttle .. i'l take it out door and try to hover atleast a feet above ground. its taken a good 6 months to get this heli back working..   :P

Pl get yourself a training gear before you start attempting to fly this thing. It helps a lot. And pl be careful about flying this indoors. I would advise against it totally. Its too dangerous. Even outdoors, pl make sure that you have enough space around.  Hate to be an alarmist but helis are vicious flying objects with a mind of their own!

thanks for that advice Pradeep, yeah I fly with training gear on. my heli is unstable :headscratch: without that I might crash every 10 min  :P  , its tough to control. i have practice flying on Sims, but actual flight differs a lot. its lot tougher to control.

try this if you have not already..
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html (http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html)

Very good link...Thanks for sharing  :thanks:

Guys,
I usually practise with training gear on. Today I noticed that when trying to Hover just above ground, because of training ball skid, heli starts vibrating. I'm getting a feeling without the training gear, heli might be more stable. I'm in dilemma, to remove or not to.

Any thoughts and experiences on this?

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If you are a bit confident on hovering throw away your training gears and you will be happy you did this.

Sujju

I'll try doing that :)

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Best of Luck :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

& post the experience  ;)

it does not seem to relate... the vibration are from rotatory objects and not from some thing stationary like the training gear.... might be it is making the vibration worse  but what is the reason for vibration.

check  for bent shaft , loose  swash plate,  or  loose servo-control  push rods....

sujju bhai will  be able to  elaborate...!!

or even the blades could not be balanced etc... and the training gear amplify this visually as your will see the training balls wobbling a lot... finally also i hope you have a good headspeed as low head speed will also cause this

regards
sujju

I checked for blade balance, swash level both are perfect. Very minute swash gap at centre throttle ~.2mm but it guess its fine.
I also measured the pitch,
Cyclics left gives me -6° right 4°
Elevator back -6° forward 4°

Hope that's fine????

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