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« on: July 04, 2009, 11:40:02 AM »
anwar
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Gaurav asked in another thread : http://www.rcindia.org/helis/good-heli-for-beginners/

Quote
Meanwhile, i intend to spend time with my RealFlight Simulator.
Please provide me with tips on what to practise. I believe hoverings is what i should try ?
Right now i have my heli all over the place when i lift off. But after an hour or so at the siumulator, i was much better. Maybe i should try to stick to the sim and get my hoverings perfect before moving on ?
One big difference i notice right away in flying planes and helis is that helis seem to require constant stick movements to keep them in place. With an airplane it was like point and go !

Let me know the best approach to practise helis

-Gaurav
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 11:57:15 AM »
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RealFlight's hover training is pretty good test to see if you are ready for next step.
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2009, 11:58:04 AM »
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Yes, you will be forced to practise takeoff, hovering and landing.  Actually the need to land properly will kind of force you to hover !

The important thing again is to set progressive targets (just like in airplane flight).

1. Take off  and land in a predetermined spot.

2. Hover within an imaginary "box" (no more than 3x the size of the heli) for like 1 or 2 minutes.

3. Move to the left and right with the tail still pointed at you.

4. Take off with tail pointed towards you, turn 90deg left, move to the left with the nose straight to the left, use rudder to make a 180deg turn (now nose will point to the right), fly straight until the heli passes in front of you and ends up on your right, make another u-turn with rudder (now the nose again points to the left), fly straight till the heli is right in front of you, turn 90deg right (tail is now pointed towards you), land.

5. Hover, make 1 (then 2 then 3) VERY SLOW pirouettes (rotation with just the rudders) in both directions, but with the heli not moving laterally at all.  Turn up some wind in the sim, if you can.

6.  Figure 8s. Remember that helis require some amount of rudder to turn.  If you are in the habit of using slight amount of rudder to turn even on your airplanes, this will be easy.

7.  The most important thing is the ability to hover "nose-in".  This is what has caused most beginners to crash.  The moment the heli is nose-in, they panic.  At the very least, one should learn to apply rudder quickly and make it point away from themselves.

If you are able to hover nose-in at one place for couple of minutes and then come into land (still nose-in), you are pretty much ready to fly on your own without apprehensions.

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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 12:13:08 PM »
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Thats a nice list, and i am following this. One question, how do you properly turn a heli ?
Like suppose i have my heli going forward, now i want to make a 180 degree turn. Do i need to first stop the forward motion, and then turn with the rudder and then get it moving ahead ? Or do i just use the cyclic to bank and keep flying forward ?

When practicing on my sim, i sometimes use just the rudder and it kind of gives an ugly appearance to the turn.
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 12:28:31 PM »
anwar
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That is the one core difference between flying helis and planes, that you end up applying rudder on all turns. 

These days, all of these happen automatically for me (without me really thinking about it in my head); but it looks like, for a left turn in forward flight, you will apply left aileron, a bit of up elevator and left rudder. 

If applying rudder makes the turn ugly, you must be overdoing something Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 06:30:08 PM »
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I still cannot do the turns in forward flight on a sim very nicely. Like in an airplane, to do a turn, i give aileron input , a little power and some up elevator with some rudder. Now this does turn the plane, but the up elevator causes the heli to slow down in Forward flight. So suppose i want to do circles, i hold little aileron and little elevator, but the heli just stops !

I want to move on to do some forward flight with my mini Titan, but holding off till i do it correctly on the sim.
Hopefully it will be easy for me, with all the airplane experience i have.
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 06:17:19 PM »
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Hi Gaurav,

Watch this video it will help you



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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2010, 09:45:06 AM »
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I was waiting to see somebody else can figure out what you wrote better than me. To me it wasn't clear what the issue was.

So suppose i want to do circles, i hold little aileron and little elevator, but the heli just stops !

Sounds like you are not giving the rudder during the turn. Since you are familiar with airplanes, it is same as a coordinated turn. You can't do the bank and yank routine as in a plane to get a proper turn.

But then you also mentioned that you do use rudder Huh?

I still cannot do the turns in forward flight on a sim very nicely. Like in an airplane, to do a turn, i give aileron input , a little power and some up elevator with some rudder.
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 10:38:28 AM »
anwar
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If applying rudder makes the turn ugly, you must be overdoing something Smiley

It is obvious that something is being overdone. If I were to put this in numbers (again, wild guesstimates), try something like 15% aileron, 5% elevator and 7% rudder.
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 11:11:21 AM »
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Iam able to do turns properly. Grin, but for some reason, i feel like I want to hover inverted, so practising more on that. I can now almost fly heli any number of minutes in any directions almost w/o crashing.

Looks like I know how to fly heli by 1% now. Thumbs Up Cool

99% to go. Giggle Thumbs Down

Going to jakkur this sunday, got to fix the Heli this Saturday. Violent
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2010, 11:17:53 AM »
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Vinay,
 did you get your 450MT parts ?
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2010, 01:34:09 PM »
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Ya, I ordered on 31st and got it yesterday. Its a record shipping taking only 10 days(Considering that I ordered on sunday and they are closed on sunday). Long live HK. Clap
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 06:29:32 PM »
anwar
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Not exactly sim practice, but I just went through the exercise of training a seasoned airplane pilot (close to 10 year of experience) on heli flying.  The gentleman was extremely motivated, and diligently put time on the sim. 

The end result is that on the 13th flight, he did inverted hovers  Thumbs Up   The sequence was something like this :

1.  The first 2 flights were plain hovering
2.  The next 2 were side orientations
3.  Another 2 flights of circuits including figure 8s in both directions
4.  The next 2 was a mix of circuits, stall turns including 1.5 stall turns and nose-in hovers
5.  The next two were rolls and loops (starting the rolls).
6.  The 13th and 14th flight involved inverted hovers.  They are not clean inverted hovers, needs more sim practice for that (and that is currently ongoing).

The duration was about 3 weeks.  I was on a buddy cord all throughout, and there were about 6 times when I had to take control. At least couple were due to low light, as we were flying close to sunset on most days.

Just wanted to let all airplane folks know that with a bit of local help, heli flying is just a few weeks away Grin
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 07:29:14 PM »
vinay
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Just wanted to let all airplane folks know that with a bit of local help, heli flying is just a few weeks away Grin

Depends on people as well!
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2010, 09:40:00 PM »
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On a RealFlight, whats the best heli model, I should be practicing on ? Considering that I plan to fly my Raptor 50.
There's a Dominion 90 3D model, but it seems pretty quick and responsive. Is the Raptor going to behave similarly ?
I intend to practice sport/3D flying on sim and apply that to the Raptor 50.
Thanks for your advise. !
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2010, 08:36:19 AM »
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Main difference would be the power available is nuch lesser on Raptor. You'll need to reduce the use of collective and allow time in between loadings to allow the head speed to recover. Especially so without a governor. It will also be a little slower with the standard black paddles.
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2010, 09:21:05 AM »
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Ok, so what would be a good model to practise on ? I saw that there is a Raptor 60 in one of the RealFlight upgrades. Would that make a better choice ?

The last thing i would want is to know all my sim practise is not usable on my Raptor !
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2010, 10:01:18 AM »
anwar
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I remember tweaking the Dominion 3D 90 for someone to make it less sensitive for someone (like putting on dual rates). 

The sim and the field are going to be different anyways, so there is no question of sim time going to waste.  One cannot realistically expect one to match the other closely either.
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2010, 09:47:39 AM »
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thanks for all the info I needed this to practice on sim.
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 05:48:22 PM »
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look up the links below:

the guy seems a desi+chink mix...guess he's somewhere in China
though he may not seem a pro
he's a good teacher and explains heli-flying in steps
for Duh! like me (RC heli flying for dummies kinds)

sometimes guys are pro but bad at teaching
they expect you to fly like them on the 1st hover
i had a tuff time with my instructor
so look up these


and


hv fun
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2010, 01:59:03 PM »
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Hey Vinay, could you please help me on how to set up an FMS Sim with the FMS controller for 4 channel use?  Help will be most appreciated.
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2010, 02:20:55 PM »
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Come home on weekend. You will get a lot of tips and tricks as well  Grin I stay in jayanagar near southend circle..

You can google as well. Giving instructions over here is difficult.
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« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2010, 02:45:57 PM »
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Guys, just wanted to know, as I do tail in aileron tic tocs on the sim, the heli moves backwards slowly. what extra inputs do i need to give to counteract this?  Head Scratching

Just realized, i have forgotten how to hover inverted after a long gap  Bang Head
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« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2010, 03:19:36 PM »
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it not only moves back word, now it chages direction as well. Doh  Bang Head will i ever be able to master tictocs  Head Scratching

I wish bangalore was a place with lot of heli gurus around. Sad
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2010, 03:49:35 PM »
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Start with ensuring that your calibration is correct.

Even the pros do small adjustments while doing multiple tic-tocs (in any direction), to keep the heli in one place (or between two places... as in this case).  Mostly it is about timing though.

On the real heli, it is important to dial out any collective-cyclic interaction.

It would be fun (and beneficial) to see a video of what exactly you are experiencing Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2010, 04:11:06 PM »
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The heli moves back wards and booom.

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« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2010, 04:37:31 PM »
anwar
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You seem to need a bit of up/forward elevator when you go from left to right, and a tiny bit of down/backward elevator from the right to the left.
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« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2010, 04:42:40 PM »
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Ok got it. Doing a tic toc itself is alrady confusing. Let me practice with that and update after a day or 2.
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« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2010, 11:20:48 PM »
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Hu ha haa haa!!!
Encouraging to see even people like Vinay can crash!!
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« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 03:04:48 PM »
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Doh! Your words really made me crash my real heli  Angry
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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 03:07:13 PM »
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Sorry, no pilot mistake, so ur words crashed my heli  >Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2010, 06:26:40 PM »
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your tail is hanging a bit, move it up a little bit if u find it difficult to correct with cyclic
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2010, 06:29:24 PM »
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Ya correct. I noted that if the tail is a bit down, the heli slightly moves back on each tic toc and the heli moves front if the tail is up.  Thumbs Up But again that alone may not completely solve the issue. Doh!  Bang Head
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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 04:41:13 PM »
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your tail is hanging a bit

The suggest elevator inputs are meant to handle that, exactly.
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 05:19:55 PM »
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you mean to say we should not use rudder inputs to correct it?
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« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 08:14:59 PM »
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The way I understood "hanging tail" is that it is lower than where it should be (in a vertical axis)... and rudder only allows for correction in a horizontal axis ? Head Scratching  Or did I miss the point completely ? Smiley
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« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2010, 08:55:06 PM »
clayboy
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at least for me it is more easy to correct tail in ail tick tock to keep it still or moving in a direction then mixing in elevator.

if tail is hanging down means that heli is going down but u can keep it up by give more pitch mean it will move backwards and vice versa

if it make sense?
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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2010, 02:07:11 AM »
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Unfortunately I cannot visualize how adjusting/applying pitch and/or rudder/tail can help in this situation.
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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2010, 03:18:12 AM »
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ok i try to explain my experiance ,im maybe not so good  to explain but i do my best  Bang Head

if the heli is exactly in a horizontal position in ail tick tock it will only move in a horizontal plane and stand still if the tail is hanging it will move in horizontal end a little bit in vertical axis mean if u get same pitch as it would hang in exact horizontal it would start to move towards the ground if your stick input is strictly ail no elevator, to give more pitch u will maintain same altitude but heli will start move backwards

atleast that how it works for me and can not say it will work for everybody, it all depends on the un known corrections we do automaticly Smiley

hope it make sens?

happy new year to everybody

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