RC India

Hey everyone ,
I have been inactive on this forum for a while as i have been busy  >:(
I have been thinking of getting the HK450 and have seen many reveiws about it . I would like to enquire from its users how is the quality of the kit and is it difficult to build for a 1st timer in building ?  :help:
Ive flown a 6ch heli before . Also please include what all are the suggested or recomended parts and what are the parts being used ...  8-)

I would also like to know the tools required for building it ...

Waiting for replies ..

Thanks ,
Sahevaan

The first one that I came across (a plain HK450 that my brother bought) had couple of quality issues, which are documented here. Those issue not withstanding, I felt it was an excellent value for money, especially for someone who is not into 3D flights.

The newer batches (known as "version 2") have many issues fixed. 

And if you go into the "bling" versions (like GT or MT), they are very good choices.

I have heard the quality of metal parts are bad.. they are soft  ???

Again, it depends on what kind of flying you do.  For normal and sport flight (loops, rolls etc; basically anything that does not involve "pitch pumping"), they work great.

I have got the Pro version, didn't get time to take it apart and build it on my own (need to ensure thread-lock and grease at the right places), then I will know personally if it can do 3D (at my basic level of it).

Could i also know what programming for ESC has to be done and can it do without the programming ?

Defaults are fine. It is rare that you have to program the ESC to solve any issues.

So what could be a suggested ESC for the turnigy E500 motor ? (4000kv)

No personal experience, but it looks like if you put a 11T pinion, you should be OK with a 30A ESC, or just for total confirmation, go for the 40A ESC.  The Turnigy Plush 40A seems to have great reviews.

Using the stock 13T pinion pushes the amps up (along with insane headspeeds), and you will need a larger ESC. It is better avoided.

@ anwar, NOT  Sahevaan

Turnigy 2836(700 watts), 60 amps Plush, 11T pinion, 4S lipo, CF blades - I heard many people fly this, just wondering what happens  :giggle:

Speaking of ESCs theres a new Turnigy 40 A SuperBrain ESC out there that also features Data logging. Am i right to suppose that it would be better than the Plush 40A ?

super brain 40 is just max 3S lipoly

There are people who can use as much RPM as they can get. But then, you better be flying like one of them ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Ac0oPnqSM

I guess it is time to ask...  what is your purpose in life :giggle:  ("450 heli RC life"!)

My point is that do not upgrade for the sake of upgrading, which I am sure you already know.  The Plush 40 is great for pretty much all types of flying (from what I understand), but if the other one has better features and is yet affordable, why not ?  It is better to wait for some reviews though.

@ Vinay & Gaurav unlcles  :P - what is the cost of the ESC ?
@ Anwar Bhaiyya - The video was AWESOME but far from what i could ever do !  ;D I can only hover a 6ch heli for about 3 mins i guess  ??? 
I am mainly interested in planes but wanted to try Heli's .
I have a .46 size Subaru & THE BUHOR (both flying condition)   ;) ! But the problem is i cant fly them in my garden or terrace  :(
My garden is approximately about 1200sq m or something like that.. I've heard that sufficient to fly a Heli (atleast hovering)

Thanks ,
Sahevaan

Sahevaan,
The 40A ESC costs $10 (TP) and $22 (Turnigy) at Hobbyking. Similar rating ESC would cost you anything from Rs 1200-2000 in India.

hovering a Co-axial Heli is quite different from hovering a CCP Heli. But definitely a good starting point. HK-450, though invitingly cheap, may not be the best thing to start with as they are much unstable. But if  you learn Heli with such tough nut, you are good for most of the helis.

0.46 Nitro are dangerous to fly in populated areas. If you have not flown R/C planes before, I would strongly suggest you to fly it only is predesignated places (check from local flyers of your town) and under supervision of an experienced flyer. 0.46 nitro engines can even kill a person and  render considerable damage to property like Car etc.

1200Sq m Garden!! What the hell you have ? A farmhouse !!

Not exactly a farmhouse , the garden is 30m * 40m so its about 1200sq m
I have flown planes before under guidance of capt. Randhawa and have built the BUHOR too..
I have learnt to hover the Walkera HM76
thanks ,
Sahevaan

Sahevaan,
I think you should be good with your garden and the HK450 heli.
If you see my video, you will find me flying , or at least hovering in a similar space. Though not recommended, it at least gives stick time in days where going out to the field is just not possible.
Go with the HK 450GT and order lots of spares ( if they have in stock ) .
I am just going to build a HK450 GT Pro in a couple of days so you can wait to have my review on that, and the electronics I am going to use there.

-Gaurav

Gaurav, the HK450/ Trex 450(from sim) are a heck lot more unstable compared to mini titan. Just try the sim of TREX 450. The link is available on my MT thread.

Are you talking about the sim alone ? 

In real life, they are very much comparable, depending on how well you have built it and done the setup (from my experience of having flown both).

well I am not very good of a flyer, but I tried both trex(sim) and real HK450 and felt that the sim version was unstable to my HK450. what i was wondering was when gaurav was flying his heli left to right and right to left so close by with just 3 feet away looked very scary to me. especially after flying the HK450. I dont think I could do that even after 100 hours of real life practice  :(

Some of test hover the Trex 450 in our living rooms, in less than 8ft x 8ft space, and that too in between the furniture ;)

Fly it regularly for a year, you will do the same :giggle:

hi guys,
its good to have the contol of 450 so good for small area flying ........but..........the dangers of flying within a few 'yards'of yourself or other people are realy dangerouse. ..a bad link or an unnoticed damage blade can cause seriouse injury.................. and upset her in doors when you trash the tv or something.........
take great care with any 300 size upwards they can kill.regards
don

:)

It is not that we do it for the purpose of flying (like a full battery), it is more to test after builds/setup (at least in the case of the few people I know, including myself).  Plus, who would want to hover inside the house, once you are comfortable flying circuits and more.

The safety aspects remain the same, wherever you fly.  For example, I do not test in confined spaces unless I have built the heli myself. 

A large part of this testing is "light on skids" testing (as compared to full on hovering for long durations).  This is when you spool up the heli and give it enough throttle so that it begins to just raise above the ground, to watch for any unwanted movements and reversals of controls (especially rudder).

Almost all established Trex 450 (or same class of heli) flyers buy them for the simple reason that they can hover them in their front yards, and fly them in any moderately open area (like Gaurav was doing).  But anything with a blade size of over 350mm is serious enough not to try anything in confined spaces.

Vinay,
I think stability comes with practise. I think a Trex ( or its clone ) would be as stable as mini Titan.
During my first hovers I was also not very stable, When i did my first nose-to-the-left hover, i had the heli flying all over the place. After 20 flights , i could hold it just in one place.
Same with nose-to-the-right and nose-in.

Very soon, I will be building my HK 450 GT PRO so would be able to post comparisions in flight performance !

I am still stuck with the Sim :(. With only Sundays available at Jakkur, I believe I should start going to hoskote on Saturdays as well.

hi anwar,
that was just a reminder of the dangers of these craft,
I have only a smallish yard to learn to hover in . here is a vid of a blade failure
I had
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn9-BZLv8YY
and one of my flybarless 450 clone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT1XwvP_tRI
I hover very low to atain the hardest stabilaty in the down wash  ;) :)
no 'extra' electrics.........just a futaba 6ex tx.  :)
regards
don

Don - What brand of blades was that ? I have done a good amount of 3D using Align FG blades, with absolutely no problems. 

Are you sure it was not a case of the main blade holders coming off ? The screws on the feathering shaft tends to have grease if you are not careful, so the thread lock does not hold, this happened to many people, who did not watch out for this.

My best crash was when the canopy came loose in flight, and the heli burst into many pieces in flight (like fireworks!) ;)

hi mate,
no both blades gave at the bolt hole,
 I only fly woodies now as you can usualy see any damage quite easily.:-)
but the tx packed up now so have not flown for couple months, every thing seems ok but its not transmitting............needs to go back for repair. :-(
also I need to completly rebuild the head now so will be buying a comercial flybar less head setup.
hope to get the 600 finished this year but........................ been two years to get it this far :-) :-)
the blades were off 'ebay' :-(
regards
don

Hi Don,

Where you using the wooden blades from EBAY when the crash happened? Even I have few pairs of wooded blades from EBAY, just wondering If I should use them.

Also I read that one should not take the head to very high RPM for wooden blades, so whats the safe Head RPM for 450 size Helis with wooden Blades?

Goes to show that there are certain lower bounds in terms of quality and price that one should be careful about when sourcing parts (especially heli parts) :(

It is best to keep the rpm around 2400 for wood blades.  For example, the Align "Pro" series of wood blades are rated at 2800rpm max, most people do not go that far.

For the sake of comparison, hardcore 3D folks run at 3000rpm to 3200rpm with metal heads and good quality CF blades.  Aerobatic flight is good with around 2600rpm, and appropriate blades (good quality wood blades are fine).

[Updated] Had the numbers wrong, fixed.

To my conclusion CF blades would do best... am i right ?

Not initially, unless you are confident about your flying skills (well, everyone crashes, but that is another matter). 

If you are still getting your orientations and prone to crashes, non-CF blades make more sense economically.

hi guys,
as anwar said.
if you are flying confidently that is a good way to go ...but with quality ones......... these blades do seem to withstand a crash but need 'carefull' looking over after. and they pass damage on into the head when crashed so more damage when you do crash.
no they were not wood blades from ebay in the failure vid. . most quality blades are marked with the recomended top head speed
I used to runn mine at about 2200 to 2400. I had to put a different pinion on when I went to flybar less as the head speed was quite faster without the flybar.longer flights as well. :)
I found wooden blades from ebay were 'not bad' but ballence was sometimes not as good as say align where they were so close that a trim sticker on one was a good ballence :-)
regards
don

So for training.. Wooden blades are best right? Will they be able to withstand the head speed ?  ???

Sahevaan,
Yes go for wooden or fiberglass blades when learning. I am using those and gives me good luck.
BTW since you are just starting out, i want to give you a sincere advise.

Get a Thunder Tiger mini Titan helicopter, rather than the HK 450.

You will be much better off in terms of quality, and lower downtime, as TT parts are available from various places in India.

Now the TT mini Titan will cost you around Rs 9,000/- for the Heli+motor+ESC+gyro.
Get the servos and battery from HK all for around 3-4K and you are off for 112-13K total ( assuming you have your own radio ) .

If you go with HK450, then you will be spending much more stocking parts.

Later you can move on to HK 450

For a 450 Heli you need only 3S , isnt it ? plus is over 30% lighter than Plush 40A and also features data recording.
I havent used this yet, so cannot compare it with Plush, but it seems to be a newer version

Its good to have a 40 A super brain around and keep swapping them in applications to measure stuff. But tomorrow if you want to use the same on a funjet using 4s, you cant. also plush is cheaper.

They all have the pros and cons depending on your usage.

Where can i source the wooden blades from ?
 :help:

EBAY

If you go for mini Titan, get the woodies from Rotor.co.in OR TT dealer in Bangalore.
COsts around Rs 750/- each pair. Will look like very expensive, but then you should not plan on crashing. Each crash will not just break your blades but will also do other damage to rotor head/heli,.

Initially i was also apprehensive that this is very expensive, but then i found, in long run i have been able to get a lot more flying time, and then the quality is superb too

are the mini titan blades compatible with trex 450? are they 325mm?

many people use trex blades on mini titan. Yes the are 325 mm

Initially where do i begin ? Hovering ? Or just spin the blades ? Or what ? How to program it on the radio ?

If you have not started to build, then http://www.rcindia.org/helis/hk-450-mt-build-thread/ should help.

hi  Sahevaan
if the heli is 'ready to fly' now
ie;_ all bolts are tight, the swash is 90 degrees to the main shaft in 'all' directions .blade pitch set and tracking ok.
do you have the supplied radio that came with the heli or a computer radio?
if computer radio you need to have a linier speed curve and a linier pitch curve set a stock radio is usualy 'pre set' but a computer radio will need setting up for heli.
as for flying you need a 'turntable'.......or slippery floor surface........with plenty of space.....to check the tail rotor is set right, ie when at 1/2 throttle it does not spin iether way.
if so a set of 'training gear' for the skids then just enough throttle to  make heli light on the gear....about 1/2 throttle usualy.... then try to keep the heli in a 1 yard square using the cyclic control and the tail control to keep the heli pionting away from you. when you can acheive a yard square or less then a little more throttle and the same again, eventualy leaving the floor keeping it within the yard square.
do not dispare this can take quite a while ...you only need minute movements on the sticks or you will be 'over controling it and then just chasing it in all directions, if this happens just throttle down and start again................lots of patents needed here.

regards
don

For building it, start with the Finless Bob "Trex 450 SE" build videos on http://www.helifreak.com. Helped me big time when I started, and I would recommend them to anyone without thinking twice.

And for the first flight, watch out for the gyro direction being reversed, so spool it up very very slowly.

hi mate,
if you are biulding the heli a good place for the 'giro' is 'undernieth' the frame in the same area.....at the boom/frame' fix piont, it will stay there ok with the sticky pad :-) but will not get trashed by the blades in the event of a crash..........if I remember corectly...... the setting would be 'norm' not rev in this position.........if the heli spins wildly with any rudder input then the setting needs to be the opposite ie:- norm or rev on the little switch .  the rudder servo setting is normaly when give left rudder stick the 'nose' goes to left.
the same as when driving a land vehicle.
enjoy your craft .....they are not easy at first, but loads of fun.
have patents and dont rush anything.........................and be safe. :)
regards
don

Hi Don,

I just took another look at the video, the look on your face when the heli blade failed was cool  ;) Totally shocked eh? ;D

hi vinay,
hahaha.....yes something like ' what the f*****' hahaha
regards don

We had a similar incident today.  Some one was flying a Trex 600 nitro with chinese blades that were procured from one of the local stores, knowing it was not a well known brand.  But the blade split up in flight, while the heli was about 2 feet above ground.  Luckily nothing else broke except one landing skid, and the pilot just changed the blades (and the skid) and went backup in the air.

HI ANWAR
600 eh................dont want that happening at a better hight.
soglad there were no injury and poss no other damage.
that must have been the same/similar maker to mine then.
chinese are good/ok in some things but I think quality is not there benchmark.
thats one thing thats holding my 600 up........need a few sets of blades and motor/esc.
regards
don

Hey everyone ,
My exams have just gotten over.. I will be ordering the heli any day now . If anyone knows anything extra ? Hardware ?

Not sure if we mentioned training skids, that is a good thing to have if you are getting into helis the first time.

Where and for how much can i get them ?  :help:

what have you decided to get ? Which heli ?
You can get skids from Rotor.co.in or even rc dhamaka

I have decided on the HK450 MT as GT wasn't in stock

Witnessed another case of HK450 blades flying out  :o

The person who built the heli was an experienced heli flyer and builder, and the event proved again that the fact the way the heli head is shipped out. It LOOKS well assembled, but there is no grease in the bearing and not enough loctite on ALL screws.  Outwardly, it looks like it does not need further review/rebuild, but they do !  And the worst part is that some of the screws have more than enough loctite and the screws are not of great quality, that their heads strips when you try to unscrew them.

Please be aware of this, if you are choosing any of the HK helis.

I have already purchased the TT mini titan :)