RC India

RC Models => Helis => Topic started by: sujju on July 31, 2011, 12:14:30 AM



Title: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: sujju on July 31, 2011, 12:14:30 AM
Hello Members,
This is our first release of build videos and happens to be on HILLER 450V2 ... hope this helps in answering some basic question to some hobbyist here. There are a total of 34 videos hope you enjoy it. (pls watch the entire series before any build)

1: Hiller 450V2- Head and Flybar cage assembly - 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJVO95Lswdw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJVO95Lswdw)

2: Hiller 450V2- Head and Flybar cage assembly - 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4NFgLSxf4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4NFgLSxf4&feature=related)

3: Hiller 450V2 - Flybar seesaw & Mixing arms build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPsTaezah_I&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPsTaezah_I&feature=related)

4: Hiller 450V2 - Frame installation - 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWHouA9ZSgA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWHouA9ZSgA&feature=related)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
5: Hiller 450V2 - Frame installation - 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cUUQ2M_vAc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cUUQ2M_vAc)

6: Hiller 450V2 - Tail boom holder installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SKq-kx4tpo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SKq-kx4tpo)

7: Hiller 450V2 - Tail block & rotor installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFxxsb2pBQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFxxsb2pBQ)

8: Hiller 450V2 - Belt installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFxEamrQjsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFxEamrQjsk)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:36:27 AM
9: Hiller 450V2 - Main gear installation & Belt check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdg658yToHw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdg658yToHw)

10: Hiller 450V2  - Electronics installation – 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIbUfNU-jU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIbUfNU-jU)

11: Hiller 450V2  - Electronics installation – 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj7Er3T1R-c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj7Er3T1R-c)

12: Hiller 450V2  - Electronics installation – 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZOEKeTa-0Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZOEKeTa-0Y)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:38:43 AM
13: Hiller 450V2  - Servo setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz4qZWiKyzA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz4qZWiKyzA)

14: Hiller 450V2  - Ball link installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVLrDIJKAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVLrDIJKAE)

15: Hiller 450V2  - Swash setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmXWqD4MRug (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmXWqD4MRug)

16: Hiller 450V2  - Motor installation and soldering – 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx7w4u3YNL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx7w4u3YNL4)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:39:14 AM
17: Hiller 450V2  - Motor installation and soldering – 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWJYzNa0Dg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWJYzNa0Dg)

18: Hiller 450V2 - ESC programming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9nvReBwzA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9nvReBwzA)

19: Hiller 450V2 - Motor pinion mesh setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vvVa5vc-o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vvVa5vc-o)

20: Hiller 450V2 - Tail rotor bind removal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_wjtNpxmKA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_wjtNpxmKA)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:39:39 AM
21: Hiller 450V2  - Swash level
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo58bdi-dfw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo58bdi-dfw)

22: Hiller 450V2  - Installing washout base
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m84d7GWzdfE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m84d7GWzdfE)

23: Hiller 450V2  - Fixing the links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1E9kaWxKj0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1E9kaWxKj0)

24: Hiller 450V2  - Flybar rod & paddles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uorW25XKMXk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uorW25XKMXk)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:40:05 AM
25: Hiller 450V2  - Installing tail servo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG5aUxknjBY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG5aUxknjBY)

26: Hiller 450V2  - Gyro installation & tail link set up - 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71MBTtMqx5g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71MBTtMqx5g)

27: Hiller 450V2  - Gyro installation & tail link set up – 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHiGAsLzG48 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHiGAsLzG48)

28: Hiller 450V2  - Gyro setup – 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR8yR_bDBuQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR8yR_bDBuQ)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:40:29 AM
29: Hiller 450V2  - Gyro setup – 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnzBJs-94Gg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnzBJs-94Gg)

30: Hiller 450V2  - Wiring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnzBJs-94Gg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnzBJs-94Gg)

31: Hiller 450V2  - Pitch curve settings - 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGJwWZIM2g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGJwWZIM2g)

32: Hiller 450V2  - Pitch curve settings – 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDOxBzV8J8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDOxBzV8J8)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on July 31, 2011, 12:41:51 AM
33: Hiller 450V2  - Cyclic pitch settings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOIX9pRph8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOIX9pRph8)

34: Hiller 450V2  - Throttle curve settings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QIjiL-_NSY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QIjiL-_NSY)

As much as i have tried to state this with my limited experience please do verify the facts again... have a great build and happy flying.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: iamahuman on July 31, 2011, 08:52:21 AM
GREAT job Sujju sir.I saw the first video.I think I'm going to watch all of them even though I don't have a heli :D

You sounded like you knew what you were doing. {:)} :hatsoff:


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Jatayu on July 31, 2011, 08:58:50 AM
Sujju had 18 Heli's and now 4 more of his own brand! surely he should know every bit of it!

I go mad looking at the number of parts hung up in the shop for heli's even the store manager goes ga-ga while he's picking up parts for couriering it!  :giggle:


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on July 31, 2011, 02:51:57 PM
Excellent videos  :thumbsup:
- skbg


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: shubhambilawar on July 31, 2011, 09:14:46 PM
thanks sujju sir
very useful videos for me.... :)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: rasheed on August 01, 2011, 12:37:05 AM
great guide  :hatsoff:


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: sunny_16977 on August 01, 2011, 12:59:57 AM
Excellent Job Sir


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: gotoyogesh007 on August 01, 2011, 01:03:12 AM
Hey Sujju very nice video's man I truly appreciate your time and dedication in making these videos, I should say its a great contribution to this forum we all are benefited from it, good job... well done    :hatsoff:


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on August 03, 2011, 12:44:16 PM
Sujju these videos are a life saver! All these days I have been struggling with the TRex instruction manual to understand the build of the Hiller 450. This is just great. Thanks a ton.
However since I am building the "Beginner" there are variations that one has to deal with. For example in the frame installation most of the screws have to go in with a spot of super glue and not Loctite as it involves metal to plastic joints. Secondly never try to use allen keys on these screws. They slip and damage the head. Go with proper hex drivers.
Now coming to the attachment of the boom to the tail block - in the "Beginner" tail assembly there is no hole in the tail block that will take a screw to permanently attach the two. Do I drill a hole to take the screw or am I missing something?


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on August 03, 2011, 06:09:04 PM
thanks pradeep..
the beginner heli that we sell is not Hiller, however the same principles apply... pls do not use super glue on plastic parts... use a slow of medium dry CA. 

I dont have the beginner heli here with me but if i recall right the tail connector that holds the tail shaft, tail pitch slider and tail rotor is a plastic one (am not talking about the tail boom holder) and there is a small circular protrusion (if you look in the inner side of the connector) and this circular protrusion will fit onto the circular / hole of the tail boom.
the tail boom holders which again is plastic takes the tail boom part which has no hole (if there is a slot in the tail boom... this slot will fit into the boom block) and just tighten the tail block and the boom will get squeezed / sandwiches between the 2 halves of the block (infact the block holds the boom quite tightly and will not come out even if you try to force pull it.. which is a good sign)

i hope i answered your query (of not pls post some pics or a vid so that i can understand this better)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on August 03, 2011, 08:14:20 PM
Thanks a ton. Will check on this tomorrow and come back if I have more queries  :salute:


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: sandeepm on August 04, 2011, 02:08:06 PM
Wow...Fantastic build video.... :salute:
i am sure if i buy this it will take years to complete... ;D
Sandeep


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on August 04, 2011, 04:51:53 PM
I know. Planes used to be so much easier to build!
By the way Sujju I found the nub in the tail unit housing and the raised slider in the tail boom bracket. So that part is on the way. Will keep you posted.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on August 07, 2011, 11:37:25 AM
Hi Sujju
Is the 450 Beginner available with you at RC Bazar the HK 450?


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on August 08, 2011, 05:46:29 PM
No Pradeep.. i dont think this is a HK 450 ( i have not used a Hk 450 till date) maybe someone here might throw more light on this..


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on September 02, 2011, 12:42:55 PM
Well, it's a very close match to HK's HK-450 CCPM Barebone kit
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11446__HK_450_CCPM_3D_Helicopter_Barebone_kit_Align_T_rex_Compat_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11446__HK_450_CCPM_3D_Helicopter_Barebone_kit_Align_T_rex_Compat_.html)

Some of the kit contents are actually "essentially missing" ones from the Hiller 450 V2 kit like plastic nuts, velcro battery straps, foam-tape etc :)
Pretty good kit.

- satish


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on September 02, 2011, 06:41:42 PM
Thanks Satish.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on September 07, 2011, 11:07:33 AM
Can anyone confirm if the Avionic D590 high speed 24g Servo sold at RcBazaar is Digital or Analog
http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/802-avionic-av590-hi-speed-24g-servo.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/802-avionic-av590-hi-speed-24g-servo.aspx)

Regards


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on September 07, 2011, 03:41:57 PM
it a analog one... (however the manufacturer states its digital but i have tested this myself and its a hi speed analog servo... almost burnt this servo when i had placed the gyro on digital mode)


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on September 07, 2011, 04:05:52 PM
Absolutely, I had my doubts too which is why I asked.
But it's a nice servo.

Thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 10, 2011, 01:29:52 PM
Hi Sujju
I managed a second crash on my 450 ccpm. Nothing major. Just damaged blades that need replacement. But I noticed that my gyro AV401 is not responding to the heli's left right movements. The gyro has a light buzz (which has always been there) and the rudder controls work fine but the gyro has stopped doing it job. I am using a Futaba TX and my gyro setting is at +75. Any suggestions?


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 10, 2011, 05:12:48 PM
thanks pradeep,
i guess you are a better flyer then what i was when i started (I used to crash on every flight if not even during spool ups ;D)...
regarding the gyro a not sure what the issueis...
- is the gyro working (meaning is the gyro holding the servo or not?)
- can you program the gyro on rate mode and see if the tail is responding to forced movements on the tail
- frankly a gyro should not have any buzz... if there has been then there is a issue with this piece (if you can get this gyro to hold the heli pls send this gyro back and we will replace it with a new one)... you can call the store anytime and they will do the needful
- HH at +75 is good enough but cant state this is "THE" right number... my way i trim my helis are...hover with a high HH value and reduce it till point by point till the wag goes out..

also my personal way of setting a gyro like avionic or gy401 etc is... you should get to fly the heli on rate mode first.. this will mean that you have to change the tail pitch slider setting manually (usually the tail pitch slider now will not be exactly at the centre of the tail shaft, it will be slightly towards the hub which means you will have a +ve pitch on the tail {around 5-7deg} but  the tail servo link will be 90deg to the push rod.. hope i have not confused you)... you need to change this setting manually till you get to hover the heli on rate mode and once it hovers on rate mode change your tx settings to HH mode and do the limit setting again (however this time you will not get the pitch slider "almost" touching the hub and the tail rotor as the pitch slider is not at the centre of the tail shaft and this gyro like the futaba gy401 does not have the capability of having different limits setting like the spartan etc but this is fine and not an issues for our kind of flying.. i feel this way of setting the gyro will give a crisper tail... if i have confused you pls let me know and i will do a vid of this and upload it soon

but first pls check if the gyro is good if not pls send it back and we will replace the same..

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 10, 2011, 05:15:07 PM
i forgot to mention that satish from bangalore (i will try to search for this post here) had an issue where he had something loose in the gyro and opened the unit and got it rectified...  not sure if this will help you but worth a shot...

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 10, 2011, 05:29:48 PM
Sorry about that, hope you didn't bend any of the shafts (main, spindle, tail)- always take time ti check them cos even a little bend can amplify and cause your gyro to malfuntion. Thats first thing to check.

It's hard to imagine a buzzing noise from a piezoelectric gyro cos it's only heard with mechanical gyros, but anyway
did you check by directly connecting your servos to rudder ch? is the rudder servo centering and working with direct rudder commands from the Tx - just to be sure the servo is ok in the first place.
Also check the connectors - the entire Rx-Gy-Servo system

You didn't mention about any damages to the gyro in the crash, yet still you may have to check it by removing its back-plate and ensuring everything inside is intact - all the soldering etc. May also be a good time to add some reinforcement to the gyro inside the casing.

Check to ensure the gyros delay and limit pots have not changed, try different settings.
Also check the gain ch connection to the Rx - verify changes to gyro gain on the Tx results in gyro/rud-servo/slider reaction

Let us know



Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 10, 2011, 09:05:10 PM
Thanks Sujju and Satish for the prompt replies. My response pointwise below:
 Sujju:
1. Gyro is holding the servo. But it is not adjusting the tail rotor pitch when I move the tail left and right. When I go into a rate mode with a reading of say -25, then the tail rotor reverts back when I centre the Tx rudder toggle.
2. Gyro had a buzz from the beginning but was working fine till my crash.
3. I had been flying the heli with a HH at + 75 till the crash. Heli was behaving fine. No wag on this one.
4. The problem right now is that the gyro has no effect on the rudder when the heli moves left or right.

Satish:
1. All shafts checked and fine. Have set up the heli and there is no ccpm interaction effect on the flybar at any point (Finless test).
2. Gyro has been buzzing from the first day that I used it but it used to work ok.
3. Servo is fine as it still responds perfectly to rudder commands from the Tx through the gyro and the gyro holds the rudder.
4. So all connections are good. Double checked anyway.
5. Gyro looks untouched by the crash. But difficult to tell if the jerk caused any damage inside.
6. Delay and Limit pots look fine. Will re-set the whole gyro function once again and see if it makes a difference.
7. I did see your post on the AV 401 and how you opened it up and worked on it. Frankly I did not have the guts. Thought I should check with you guys first or maybe send it back to Sujju if he agrees to take a look (he has very graciously agreed to replace it, which might not be necessary).


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 10, 2011, 09:19:16 PM
can you pls check the wire connections especially the gain wire if anything has come out loose?... but am still concerned about the gyro buzz which should not happen..
also i dint get what you mean by "gyro holding the servo".. if this holding then its means the servo is getting moved by the gyro... can you pls clarify this...

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Hellyflyer on October 11, 2011, 12:10:47 AM
on a lighter note :  :giggle: How can one question ones own response? :headscratch:....may be I am missing something

now coming back to the issue:-

I think that you need to test the Gyro on the ground and see if it moves the rudder servo when you manually move the tail of the heli,

Also check for the small reverse switch on the gyro as you need to move it if you changed your rudder servo after the crash or made any changes in the Tx for rudder channel.

The buzzing normally comes from the servo if the limits (end points) on the gyro are not properly set.

hope this helps

Hellyflyer


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 11, 2011, 08:46:59 AM

1.All tests are on the ground
2. Gyro holds the servo in position when I throw the rudder stick left or right. That is, the servo does not centre automatically when I release the rudder stick. So part of the gyro is working.
3. What does not work is that there is no corrective response from the rudder when I turn the heli left or right physically by hand.
4. No I did not need to change anything on the heli after the crash except the blades. So the servo is the same.
5. You could be right about the buzzing coming from the servo. I assumed it is from the gyro because (i) nothing buzzes when I connect the servo directly to the Rx and (ii) belonging to the age of mech gyros, I assumed it to be normal. The buzzing only happens when the gyro is connected. The tail slider is centered and does not touch the ends even with full rudder movements. However, as I had mentioned earlier, I will go through the gyro setup again and see what happens. But the buzzing is secondary. Right now I have half gyro function only!

Thanks again!


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Hellyflyer on October 11, 2011, 10:06:57 AM
1. Did you try flippling the small switch on the gyro to see NOW, if there any corrective response when you move the heli by hand?
2. Do you see any corrective response when the gyro is in rate mode? (little jerks from the servo when you move the tail quickly by hand)

3. Ensure that the gyro is properly mounted with double sided tape, some times loose gyro's would also cause this behavior.



Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 11, 2011, 11:30:45 AM
Well in that case the buzz you're hearing is most likely from the servo, and i'm assuming it's a Analog hi-speed servo - if so, I have seen this happen with AV401 Gyro. Just try increasing the Delay on the gyro. This buzz is simply because the servo is constantly searching for its center (you have mentioned you have about +75 gy gain which is a bit high), which increases if you increase the gy-gain. You may test this by reducing the Gy gain completely to somewhere between Rate-mode and HH-mode (49-50) on your Tx and the buzzing will reduce and as you increase the gain the buzz/jitter also increases. On the other hand if yours is a Digital tail servo then it's normal to hear a very high frequency buzz from the servo.

For analog hi-speed servo make sure the DS switch on AV401 is off. Increase the Delay to say 50% and Gy gain on the Tx to say 40% and see if the buzz reduces. Its very imp to eliminate any chatter from the servo and it should at all times find it's center without searching for it, else this will result in a drift in flight in hh-mode. I have seen this happen with AV401 servo myself. If the chatter doesn't go completely, you may even try adding some sub-trim to the rud-ch on your Tx. But thats the last resort and not recommended.

From your report it looks like your saying the gyro isn't countering the tail movement - if so check if you're in Rate mode or HH Mode or in teh middle. Only at mid-point bet Rate and HH the gyro does not counter tail movements, else in Rate mode it counters the tail movement and re-centers back, and in HH it counters and continues to do so until the heli returns to it's heading position.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 11, 2011, 11:42:56 AM
Also you're saying the gyro doesnt re-center automatically - this is ok in HH mode. But in Rate mode, it should re-center after you center the rudder stick.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 11, 2011, 06:51:40 PM
Hellyflyer:
1. Flipped the DIR switch. Still no corrective response from the gyro when heli is moved by hand.
2. No jerks in rate mode either. In the Futaba, rate mode is from 0 to -100 (theoretically). The gyro light goes off actually at -4.
3. Gyro is properly mounted with double sided tape and quite firm.
Satish:
1. The servo is analog - D590. Metal gear, 24g.
2. You are right. Buzz goes away when I reduce gain on Tx to about +10. My "in-between" on Futaba is 0. Buzz comes back at about +11.
3. DS switch is off.
4. Chatter goes at +10. So do you recommend Txgain setting at +10?
5. The gyro is not countering any tail movement either in Rate Mode or in HH.
6. Yes I am aware that in HH, the servo will not re-centre automatically.
7. I have gone through the whole process of setting up the gyro, servo and tail once again. Still no reponse.
Sujju:
1. If Sujju agrees, I will send the Gyro back to RCB for a check-up.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 11, 2011, 07:18:27 PM
w.r.t point 4, the reason you hear the chatter is simply because the gyro is sensitive and constantly keeps sending
signals to the servo the reset it's position and the servo isn't fast enough to - therefore you can try increasing the Delay on the Gyro so that the servo can catchup with the gyro. Therefore you may play with both the Tx gain as mentioned in point 2, and with delay pot on gyro. Only in rarest cases we resort to rudder sub-trims on the tx to eliminate the rudder hunting behavior.

That's theory. But in your case, it's difficult to say as yet if it's gyro malfunction or Tx setting. I don't have a futaba Tx...may be sajju or someone here can help you, or you could simply try another gyro. G105 is more stable and I highly recommend.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 11, 2011, 10:02:27 PM
Thanks guys for all the help. I have ordered the G105 anyway. Will write what happens when I replace the AV 401.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 12, 2011, 12:52:00 AM
hi pradeep.. as stated pl send the gyro back and we will do the needful..
thanks
sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 12, 2011, 08:06:26 AM
Thanks a ton Sujju!


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 12, 2011, 12:19:06 PM
excellent.

pradeep, when you receive your g105, set the delay pot to midpoint or more (50+) and keep reducing until you hear that servo buzz again - that's your sweet-spot.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 12, 2011, 12:24:31 PM
Thanks Satish!


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: pradeepdasgupta on October 12, 2011, 07:27:39 PM
Sujju:
1. Thanks for letting me know that the D590 is a digital servo. I switched the gyro DS switch to on but still no joy.
2. Changred the gyro from AV 401 to the new G 105 and ... WOW!!!!...eveything works fine again...
3. So the AV 401 obviously has a problem.

Thanks for all the help and support all you guys. I should be ready to crash again by this weekend...What fun...


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: controlflyer on October 12, 2011, 10:24:23 PM
Really nice work Sujju,
I suppose there's no more need for RC powers anymore...

Good Job!


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 12, 2011, 10:54:06 PM
thanks controlflyer...
i just happend to see that you are in Kuwait.. pls pm me your number... i happen to travel to kuwait quite often from bahrain

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 13, 2011, 01:05:14 PM
Can anyone confirm if the Avionic D590 high speed 24g Servo sold at RcBazaar is Digital or Analog
http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/802-avionic-av590-hi-speed-24g-servo.aspx (http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/802-avionic-av590-hi-speed-24g-servo.aspx)

Regards
hi satish,
i thought i was referring the the avd90mg - 9gms servo here... i stand corrected the AV590 24 gms servo is a digital servo and i have been using this on my heli on DS mode and works great. (thanks pradeep for point this out to me)

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 13, 2011, 01:29:40 PM
Thanks, if it's digital than that's even better ;)
- satish


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 14, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Hi sajju
Just to update,...Switching to DS mode on the G105 with the D590 servo, I didn't see any improvement (was actually hoping to) nor any deterioration. There's no servo chatter nor servo-creep on the +ve side, but on the other hand, no notable improvement on tail hold. I used to get a slight drift before with same gyro and servo in analog mode, and it's still there in DS-ON mode. Matter of fact, now, no matter what my Gy Gain is on my Tx, i never see a tail-wag in HH mode (even with 100% gain), which i used to see in DS-OFF mode.

The drift, I have almost accepted as best I can get with this combination. If anyone is seeing better results let me know.
It's not a huge drift (I always set my helis in Rate mode and fly in HH),
its a slight drift, but just enough to keep me busy with rudder inputs every 2 sec or so in hover.

I have setup my mini-titans same way (emax 8g digital ervo and HK gyro), but their tails are rock steady.
may be the chinese wt mod on the tail will help? Or is this normal?

- satish


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 14, 2011, 07:20:24 PM
no satish this is not normal and nothing to do with chinese wt mod... if the heli os drifting that simly means the gyro is still searching for its centre and will come to a halt when it finds it..i hope there are no rudder subtrims. Also any p-mixes with the rudder is not desired during set up.. infact i have the exact same set up and the helis holds perfect... the only thing that i did was to get the pitch sliders and ball links etc slop free and made then smooth to get an 0 binding on my tail... 

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: srivatsa on October 14, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
Hello sujju sir,

I'm slowly building my 450 back to life. In your video you have emphasised the need to center the tail servo servo arm without using the sub trim. i.e try to put the arm 90 deg to the tail boom.

i tried hard but couldn't do it. The servo arm is always 2~3 deg more than 90. So i have moved the servo position on tail boom such that i can get the center on the tail shaft with this setting.

i.e even with the 2~3 degrees tilt on the servo arm the thing (which moves on the tail shaft  ;D) is perfectly centered. please let me know if this is fine.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 14, 2011, 09:55:22 PM
Hi Srivatsa
2-3 deg is not an issue at all... try to get it as close to 90 deg as possible and also get the pitch slider a close to the mid point / centre of the tail shaft as possible... this is more than enough for you to start with

sujju


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Purush on October 15, 2011, 02:23:35 AM
This is great video... Thanks for the detailed info...

After watching the video, I have decided to purchase a Hiller 450v2 heli. Just want to know will below TX/RX and lipo will be good with Hiller450v, if not pls suggest any alternate..

Hiller 450 V2 - Ready to Fly with canopy and blades
Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 3S 25~50C Lipo Pack
Turnigy 9X 9Ch Transmitter w/ Module & 8ch Receiver (Mode 2) V2



Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Jatayu on October 15, 2011, 02:33:56 AM
Hi Purush,

The Hiller 450V2 is a great choice to begin with. The Tx and lipo you've mentioned are perfectly suitable. But i would suggest you to get both the TX and lipo from RcBazaar itself instead of getting it from hobbyking and looking into customs prob etc etc. RcBazaar is currently out of stock on the Flysky 9X (same as turnigy 9x) and 2200mah lipos, they'll be getting stock in the starting of next month, meanwhile you can work on building your heli...


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Purush on October 16, 2011, 04:36:46 PM
Hi Jatayu,

I saw Turnigy 9X 9Ch Transmitter which was available in rchobbyaddict.com and cost wise a bit less, any specific pros and cons between these 2 Radio...


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on October 16, 2011, 09:36:33 PM
the flysky and the turnigy are one and the same.... you definitely can pick it up from anam, its a good deal.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: Jatayu on October 16, 2011, 10:26:36 PM
Flysky and Turnigy 9X both are the same radio. They share the same hardware with different company stickers.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: satishkbg on October 17, 2011, 11:37:20 AM
Defenitely a good deal, the Turnigy 9X also looks like comes with an upgraded firmware and in-built 2.4Ghz and no second antenna. RCB will be getting new stock soon I guess, will it be upgraded firmware version? have to wait and see.
- satish


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: adarsh007 on November 22, 2011, 01:42:19 PM
Hey Sujju,

Recently i had the pleasure of flying your Hiller 450 heli, and must say they're flying damn good.  Dint push them very hard, but what ever little i flew it did every thing with grace.  Good job on the Hillers man.  A good and economical way to get into helis.  Thanks

Regards,
Adarsh


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: asinghatiya on February 26, 2012, 01:13:15 PM
Hi, where to install Gyro ?? :headscratch:..as there is no plate or space to keep it.

I tried inverting the structure but all in vein. Need urgent advice on it.


Tail servo link is making a Arch.... :headscratch:...please advice if its ok ?


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: raja_mastana on February 26, 2012, 01:54:06 PM
please take a look at the pics i have attached - it might help


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: asinghatiya on February 26, 2012, 02:22:45 PM
Many thanks, its really helpful.  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on February 26, 2012, 02:24:58 PM
please take a look at the pics i have attached - it might help

Raja_mastana you hit the nail on the head. I am sure this will be of help.

Asinghatiya the tail push rod should not have an arc.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: asinghatiya on February 26, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
Ok, I guess I should be using the round servo hand as used by Raja.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: RcBazaar on February 26, 2012, 02:58:31 PM
Not necessarily. You can use the existing but try to use the first or second hole from the centre. I think this might be covered in video no 25 here. Also try to twist the push rod guides so that the tail slider link ball is aligned with the tail servo ball in a single straight line.

Sujju


Title: Hiller 450 from RCBazaar - Help needed
Post by: keerti on June 01, 2012, 12:29:26 PM
hi, can you tell me how do you control your heli. I have a hiller 450 v2 as well which i just assembeled but i have HK-T6A V2 remote control.
also can you tell me how to balance the centre of gravity of the heli.
please help


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: anwar on June 01, 2012, 01:40:58 PM
Merged above post into the Hiller 450 build thread from RCBazaar.

Have you gone through this thread first ? Usually you do not have to sweat the CGs of helis, if they get built per instructions and use the recommended size of lipos, CG should work out fine automatically.


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: ravi18 on June 01, 2012, 04:54:38 PM
hi... everyone

I'm new to rcing, a total rookie :headscratch: ......... so going through the some posts to learn some basic about it....


@ sujju sir
what is the difference between Hiller 450 Sports/V3 and Hiller 450 Pro or should I start with Hiller Beginner 450 CCPM


Title: Re: RcBazaar - Hiller 450V2 build series
Post by: u2 on October 09, 2013, 06:42:20 PM
it is very old thread
but would like to know what all I need to buy, what budget..
tools, kit, rc etc..