Finally got the T-rex 600 NP Kit and have just started the build process....Finished the blade holder assembly on the rotor-head along with the see saw assembly within the hour. Hit my first roadblock with the direction of the centre portion of the thrust bearing on the feathering spindle....had to open and re-assemble to get the railed portion facing the hub to prevent the grease flying out!! .... a pain to get the locktightened screws out of the spindle...but got it right finally....now for the flybar assembly....

Great going. Do post some pictures.
Also does this kit come with some parts pre-built ? or do you need to build up everything.
I built my Raptor 50 recently, and nothing came pre-assembled . Had a zillion parts in at least a hundred plastic bags ! I am glad I didnt loose anything.

Are you also taking assistance from the Bob Finless videos from HeliFreak ? i thought i had seen the Trex 600 build video the other day . Ok here is the link : http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=41514

Also do post what equipment you are going to use : Engine, gyro, servos, radio

Look forward to seeing this come together.
-Gaurav

Yup, have the Helifreak vids.....so far used just the manual for the head assembly.Everything needs to be built from scratch except some basic assemblies like the tail gear assembly etc. But the good thing is that the packets are nicely marked and tagged...here are the components:

1. T-Rex Nitro Pro carbon edition heli kit
2. OS-Max 50 Heli engine
3. Century Tri-flo muffler
4. Futaba Gy520 gyro with 9254 rudder servo
5. Hitec digital servos with 5.5Kg torq for cyclic and throttle (forget the number)
6. 600mm CF blades
7. 2000mah Nimh Rx battery (should be good for 3-4 tanks before a recharge)

Way to go Lavneet, you will love this one   Being my primary bird for about 1.5 years, I can say with confidence that if you are careful about the build and setup, it can do pretty much whatever you want it do to

BTW, did you buy it locally ? And is it the NSP or the NP ?  And did you consider the Knight 50 instead at any point ?

Please ignore the question about the NSP, I see that it is the NP, since the NSP comes with servos etc.

moderator pls delete this post
thanks

It is a Nitro Pro bought off ebay USA, had to pay some duty but still a good deal....whats the diff with knight 50? This one came with a carbon frame, CF tail blades and CF fins etc. Rotor head and Swash are alloy and the blade holders are Nylon...trying my best to build as slow , true and square as possible...

If you were buying from outside, this would have been a wonderful deal.

http://www.helipross.com/special-pak-align-t-rex-600-nitro-limited-edition-w-4xservosgp780align-55h-enginmuffler.html

The Knight 50 is considered a better 50 size heli by many.  I have not flown one, but many who have flown both said that it is better.  And it is locally available in India.   But you cannot go wrong with Align either, as it is also very high quality. 

One good thing about Align is that spares are available all over the world (being the world's most widely used RC heli brand), and whatever models they come up with, they never disappoint.  So far, the first version of the Trex 250 seems to be their worst initial release.  But they also always come up with upgrades and replacement parts quickly to fix any issues. 

I did upgrade by main blade holders to metal ones on my Trex 600 NP.

full rotor head assembly complete.....

Great going. That was kinda quick ! Does the Trex 600 use the E-CCPM ?

yes CCPM

Good going

Your flybar paddle (at least one of them) seems to be not in line with the flybar "cage" (or so it seems from the picture).  If it is it not in the same plane, do remember to correct it along with your final pitch setup steps.

Thats because the set screws that secure the flybar to the cage have only been lightly screwed into the notches on the flybar to prevent the flybar from falling out. This gives the paddles a lot of play. The setscrews will be thread locked and tightened at the end after I have the measurements done with a V caliper. After that i will twist the paddles parallel to the blade grips with the help of a pitch gauge...

reached stage 2, finished the clutch and getting thre main frame together now....

Frame with tank and Landing skids assy complete so on to the 3rd stage of engine mounting....it looked perfectly square on a glass surface and the main shaft just dropped straight in through the 3 bearings.....

Good going. Started to look like a heli now !

 Engine , clutch and cooling fan assembly mounted - 2nd Apr '10

All 5 servos mounted, cyclic bellcranks mounted, canopy also test fitted to get a sneak peek at the colour scheme... - 4th Apr '10

Torque tube fitted with both sides gear assemblies..Tail rotor assembled. Boom fitted to the main frame, muffler fitted, plumbing done...

Forgot to ask... did you get the 2 in 1 regulator ? Since you got a NiMH pack instead of the 2cell lipo, looks like you may not have it.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/18762/n/Align-B6T-2-in-1-Voltage-Regulator

That is one of the best things I liked from Align.  Got rid of the whole glow igniter (hot-shot) business, with the convenient 15 seconds auto shutoff of glow power after pressing the button.  The initial units had some issues with switch quality etc, the current ones have been working great for all of us on our field.  Many have put them on non-Align helis, and even planes.

Here's one at about half the price
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6696&Product_Name=iMAX_iBEC_6A_Linear_Regulator_&_Glow_Drv.

And Rotor stocks it too !
I am going to go with it for my Raptor 50
http://rotor.co.in/show-detail.asp?prodid={C79678CD-FCC0-4B89-84AC-DB29AE0A0595}&pn=1

Anwar,
Since you used this, what is the recommended Lipo I should be using ? 2200mah 2S ? Thinking of using Zippy from HK

Some scary reviews (although with 5 star ratings ).  The output is 5.3v instead of 6v (this can be good or bad, depending on your needs).

Also, the Align one includes a 1900mah lipo in the price. 

Indeed some reviews were scary, where people reported loss of control when hot.
BTW Align one does NOT include the battery.  AMainHobbies says that clearly.
Rotor seems to stock these, and i would love to use this with my Raptor. What battery do you use, Anwar ?

Amain was the result of a quick search.  The last time I got one was from here :

http://www.helipross.com/align-b6t-2-in-1-voltage-regulator-combo-he50h11-1.html

and that is a combo with the lipo.

I use the Zippy 2s3p low-C ones (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8272&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_2100mAh_2S3P_Receiver_Pack_) and the Outrage XPRX ones (http://www.helidirect.com/outrage-nrgrx-2s1p-74v-2500mah-spektrumjrfutaba-receiver-battery-p-13176.hdx).  The Outrage XPRX ones also double as TX batteries for my TX in case of emergencies (otherwise the default NiMH). 

You can go for more mAH for longer periods between recharges, on a 50 size heli, the added weight is not really an issue.

Lavneet,
What servos are you using for your heli ? I remember you mentioning Hitecs but which ones exactly  ?

http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-5485hb_servo.html

9254 Fut on the rudder

Everything ready, only radio installation and setup pending!!

Lavneet, watch out for the clunk line inside the tank.  If you used the one that came in the kit, then it tends to elongate after being soaked in the fuel, causing all kinds of funny/serious issues (including the engine running lean intermittantly, and even quitting when you are flying with less than 25% of fuel in the tank).  Just watch for it after say every few days, and snip off the excess length. 

Using better quality clunk lines help, and a header tank absolutely helps.

cool...i will test fly and then add the already sourced 60ml header in a few weeks....where does the header go? Seems to lack that space on the Rex 600....can you post some pics of your header attachment?
Cheers

Here is how mine is mounted.  Basically drill a hole of right dia in the CF frame, and use a stand-off bolt.  There are lots methods of mounting header tanks though.

I think my tank came from an XCell Fury heli, being sold separately at one of the LHSes. It is the "stand-off bolt" that is sort of hard to find.

Thanks man!! Extremely helpful pictures...I have the TT raptor header though!! Did you also epoxy the header to the main tank?

Lavneet, I am using the same servos on my Raptor 50.  Hitec 5485HB.
They are great, but I think the collective demands something more powerful.
Plus with your high performance setup, shouldnt you be looking at Metal gear high toque ones ? 5645 and the likes ?

Hi gaurav, From your point it seems the Raptor 50 is Non CCPM (is that correct?)..in that case i would never use this servo on the collective!!!.....In my case(CCPM) 3 servos are working in tandem to lift the collective and I cannot see them being inadequate in torque!!

Well yes, i overlooked that 5485-HB are great. What Rx battery pack you going to use ?
I just upgraded mine from a NiCad to a A123 one and its wonderful. No regulators needed . Been using this same combo ( 5485 + A123 + Futaba ) on my patternship and works great

Excellent!! 123 are the future...I have actually orderd the Align Regulator/lipo combo with onboard glow igniter as Anwar had suggested. Should be with me in a week. In the meantime I will use a 4.8v 2000mah nimh for the first few flights till that arrives!!

Lot of people use the TT header tank, since that is the one usually available locally  

In my case, the two tanks do not touch each other at all, but it is entirely up to you how you want to do it.  People even use double-sided tape as the starting point, and then additional jigs to ensure a secure attachment to the main tank.

You can avoid drilling a hole in the CF frame if you can find longer substitute bolts instead of one of the existing ones.  Many pictures in this thread of various header tank mounting options :

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=39093

What ever you do, apply simple common sense building tricks, like I dropped a thin line of CA along the two tie wraps that hold the header tank on to the L shaped bracket (there is also thin double sided tape there).  This adds to protection from the header tank moving around within the tie wraps.  Such small items help prevent accidents/issues that can truly be avoided in the first place.

so from what I understand, there is only one point of contact to the heli / frame in your setup - the bolt with the spacers? What then prevents it from dangling like a pendulum with that bolt as the pivot?

It could, but the bolt and the nut (that goes with the bolt, hidden behind the frame in the pictures) are tightly fixed with thread-lock.  Has not tilted at all so far.

  My favorite Heli.

BTW how does Trexs compare with Raptors in general ?
Since I am flying a Raptor now, would be good to know . Who knows my next heli might be a Trex !

In reality I saw more raptors at jakkur than Trexs. But in Sim I liked the rex a lot lot more than the raptor. I felt I could do more 3D on a Rex rather than a raptor. This is one question even I am waiting for the answer. And I hope to read the answer not saying "Personal preference."   

Obviously the big difference is that it is CCPM.  It is certainly a higher quality kit, with the Pro version coming with torque tube tail that improves tail performance significantly (which can be a problem if you hit the blades on the ground, as the gears tend to break easily), CF frames etc.  Most people do not do 3D comfortably on Raptors (at least heavy pitch pumping moves) with out some upgrades.  Raptor has some price advantage and local availability advantage, but availability of the Align range is never an issue when it comes to ordering from outside (actually it is much better compared to Raptor/TT).  And if factor in the upgrades and quality, price is also less of a factor, and things like http://www.helipross.com really helps.  

In short, when you are ready to get into 3D/advanced maneuvers, it is time to move on to something like the Trex 600 or the Knight 50.

Anwar, I noted that in a sim when I pitch up a Trex 600 and move the aileron left and right (like moving the heli up in a snakes path), the Trex boggles down to very low head speeds. How does people like Tareq do 3D on nitro Helis? 

Lavneet - That above discussion reminds me that I should warn you to leave the tail blades pretty loose. In fact, loose enough that they fall on their own weight.  Otherwise you tend to lose the torque tube gears at the slightest hit of the  tail blades on the ground or even in grass.  I have changed mine about 5 times now, mostly practicing auto-rotations that did not work well initially.  

Some people even jig up something like thick aluminium rods/wires (or piano wires) under the tail fin to increase the clearance of the tail blades from the ground.  I have seen others connect their landing gears facing backwards to help with this, but I have not been convinced about the effectiveness of the same.

Not enough data to comment on what is happening on the sim for you. 

As far a Tareq is concerned (or any full 3D flier), it is a mix of a well tuned engine, the help of a governor in maintaining a constant head-speed and most importantly, learning to realize the right about of collective/pitch (or a combination of collective and cyclic) needed to perform each maneuver.  If you watch the videos of the 3D pros which shows their stick movements, you will realize that the whole marketing talk about "our heli is capable of doing -14 to +14 pitch range" is not needed at all to do what they are doing.  They almost never take pitch to such extremes, and even when they hit extremes, that is only for a fraction of a second (a quick "pitch pump" for those thundering stops). If you keep the pitch at max, the head gets loaded and you lose head-speed quickly in most cases.

Well that answers my question exactly!

Well when it comes to motors, a High KV motors or a 4 Cell lipoly increases the speed of 450 size heli. Is there a similar way to increase the head speed of a nitro heli, like different breed of engines specifically for 3D etc?

Yes, there are engines of different performance (mostly rpm) capabilities.

Head speed is also a factor of gear ratios (especially the pinion gears on the motor shaft, which is something you missed in addition to motor, lipo).  That is something often tweaked for electrics and rarely for nitro ones.

Good to know more about nitros.

Point well noted, will keep that in mind. I have had a friend loose those gears on the Trex 500....

All electronics/radio/battery/gyro installed and programmed. All bench tests done and pitches set for all three modes and only need to add fuel and test fly- Crazy to see how effortlessly the pitch jumps from a -14 to a +14  if one wants to set it up that way.... I have gone by the manual with -2 to +10 setup in the normal mode...

Successful maiden..First a 5 minute sortie with training gear and the booster plugged in. Off with the training gear in 2nd flight. Kept it mostly in ground effect to run the rich engine in....last photo is of all the guys who helped me with the project - Roet Bindra, Ramesh Tahlan and Jagjit Singh - missing from that picture are Anurag from Nagpur with his constant over-the-phone inputs and Amit (akumar) who could not come to the field today...It was a fun 2 weeks...Over and out on the build pictures....!!

 

Congrats !  The first picture stands out for its beauty  

Wonder why you left the glow igniter dangling from the heli

engine died for the Nth time with first starts...so my brain-wave to keep it on for just 4-5 mins in a ground effect hover - just to see if the darn thing even flew!!!

The low needle being rich is common, causing the engine to quit frequently during break in.  Another issue is the glow plug itself, but being brand new, that is less suspect here. 

From the later pictures, it looks like this resolved itself after the engine found its groove ! 

Great ! Congratulations.
What fuel did you use for the breakin ? Even mine died 10 times on my Raptor's first flight. Idle was OK, but as the throttle was increased, at mid point the engine got too rich and died. With airplanes we usually leave the glow plug connected during the first minute of breakin. Didnt really think of doing that on a heli.

Great show. Look forward to further pictures/videos.

Used the following and plan to use it throughout the helis flying days!

10 synthetic
10 castor
10 Nitro
70 Meth

Did some slow and low fwd flights on the 2nd flight...lots of bobbing vibration though...

Can't see the "bobbing vibration"   Can you describe what you are seeing a bit more ? 

The head-speed looked good for what you are doing, and the tail was holding well too. 

i am glad you asked the specifics 

It is not true bobbing but just that the tail is vibrating very fast in an up-down motion. The movement is less tan an inch maybe but it is vibrating a lot!!

I can barely see it in the video, and a bit of vibration is normal. In any case, you should get some help by bumping up your throttle curve for those stick positions by a little (about 3 to 5 points is a good guess).  A good amount of up-down wobble of the tail is typically an indication of not enough head-speed (which is barely visible in your case, but no harm in being a bit higher).

Hey lavneet good going...The best part is that you assembled it yourself so, you know ur heli the best .

Hey Anwar,
I got your recommended Align B6T 2 in 1 regulator with the align lipo. I was installing it and just realized that its regulated output is 5.8v while the Fut S9254 is rated for 4.8v!!!! No am I going to need the Align inline 5.1v regulator between the Gyro and the Servo to prevent it from getting fried?? This is such a pain if i cant use it in this setup and having to add so many weak links to the setup!! Or, will the 9254 stand up to the regulated 5.8v output just fine?

Cheers

Futaba 9254 cannot handle 5.8V . Yo uwill need to use a regulator.
That is the prime reason, I switched to the Turnigy servo. Works great with unregulated 6.6V A123.
In your case, just use the inline regulator. Should be good enough. Its just a diode !

Yes, you have to bring it down to 5.1v using the regulator (which is just diodes).  It is a shame that I overlooked your rudder servo, and did not mention this initially itself (although it was not clear from the NiMH battery specs whether it was 4.8v or 6v).  But you will love the convenience of it later on, and you can continue the old setup until then; so there is nothing really to lose.

A diode is the last thing you expect to fail, so the whole "weak links" part is not a concern at all.

darn!!! the wait is so irritating, I changed all the elctrics for the 2 in 1 and am no way going to cange it back to the old setup, will just wait for the inline regulator.
In the meantime just read this whole thread and see the counter arguements....these are by experienced heli pilots BTW!!

http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/main-discussions/31440-align-2-in1-reg-futaba-s9254-help-please.html

Not worth the risk on an expensive servo, and possibly the expensive heli. 

Regardless of the discussion, Futaba clearly does not support 6V.

http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wgainf100p.pgm?I=FUTM0224
http://www.futaba-rc.com/servos/digitalservos.html

If you have a servo extension lying around, it is a trivial job with a soldering iron to make one. Instead of waiting days, you just need one trip to local electronics shop to get a diode.

There are choices in diodes, in terms of power.  I have not opened up the regulator yet (and I am not using it any more, since all the newer servos support 6V), so do not know which one specifically they are using. 

Other than that, just some confidence in basic soldering skills is the other requirement; and knowing the diodes are directional. 

If the above are clear, then absolutely no need to wait.  All are basics, but important.

About 2 doz flights on it....getting to do Fig-8's and some basic stall turns now...Am a bit clumsy though!!!

!

lavneet, you seem to be doing great !   well done.
where are the clumsy bits

chand

cant wait to progress on my build front.....havent had the time recently.

Nice progress  

Love the field !

Cool! you fly very confidently dude. Yesterday I saw Adarsh flying his 600 FBL. and these things are really monsters and have to be handled really carefully! So much of power in them! 

I feel a little uncomfortable towards the ends of the 8's when the heli is turning....have this habit of pulling elevator to slow things down fearing it will get too hot on me....makes it look a little less fluid....working on it though!!

Thanks buddy, coming from you it gives me a lot of confidence. Yes it is the ultimate RC field possible....a friends polo farm where he breeds horses....1500 feet X 700 feet of perfectly manicured lawns....unfortunately only a max of 2 flyers allowed at a time since it is disturbing to the horses!!

Same Trex video of mine, different soundtrack...remember the Irene Cara song from the 80's - 'What a feeling....take your passion and make it happen'...How apt!!

!

could not resist the temptation to change the canopy to the yummy fusuno air brushed and the landing gear to black

Mean looking canopy

What is your feedback on the heli so far ? And how much progress on the maneuvers ?

No flying in over a month!! Been really hot and windy here...

Man, your heli is looking very S**y!  Any plans to sell ? Just kidding 

Just to update, been doing good with the trex600. large fig 8's with good banking turns at both ends, stall turns, pirouettes, autorotations etc etc....infact my heli flamed out at about 60 feet in FFF and I managed to bring it down nice and sweet so am quite thrilled. videos soon!!

Cheers

Waiting. What do u mean by flamed? 

means engine shutdown ,this word basically used for jetengines not for piston engines where excess of
1)Fuel flow without enough oxygen to burn inside the combustion chamber ,fuel comes out the engine and burns outside.
2)Sometimes this occurs even if engine running out of fuel! or bad & blocked fuel nozzels.
3)Compressor stall which will lead to (1) point and even when FOD occurs (foregin object insertion).

example of flame out due to bird strike

"Flame out" in field speak means "engine quit mid-air"   That is where autorotation skills come into saving a lot of money

Thanks anwar....yes we do use "Flame Out" or "Dead stick" on the RC field for engine quitting mid air. However, 'Dead Stick' isn't quite apt for helis since the stick is quite alive with the collective for autorotating

This evenings flight video of the Rex 600...

Good to see you taking it step by step  

Try to land (carefully) with the nose a tiny bit earlier than the tail... (as if there is a SMALL amount of forward elevator).  It helps the tail blades from hitting the ground first, and subsequent issues.  If you over do it, it again causes the tail to slam down, which is also not good.