RC India

Hi,
I got a question here. I am assembling the Main Drive Gear assembly, and the clutch shaft goes into the clutch housing ( that has one way bearings i think ) . Now i noticed that the clutch shaft is scractched in a couple of places. Is that anything to be concerned about ? I will be putting one way grease here, but the scratches on the steel shaft have me a little worried .

Not sure we have enough information to comment on this (ie, how bad are the scratches).

Close-up pictures (without losing focus) would really help.

They are not very bad. but they are visible. What i am trying to know here is if the scratches on this part will make a difference ? I know this might be a critical part thats why concerned. I will try to get a picture today.

Are you talking about this

http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-shaft-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12799.hdx

or this

http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-starter-shaft-r30-raptor-30v2-50se-titan-p-12735.hdx ?

In any case, unless you can see metal protruding from the surface as a result of the scratch, or the scratch being too deep to affect the strength of the part, it should be OK. 

Grease helps ! I use the white lithium one at those places in my heli builds.

Thanks, This was the part i was talking about : http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-shaft-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12799.hdx

I guess the grease would 'fill-in' the scratch and i should be OK.

BTW could you help me find a Raptor 50 Titan build log / videos ? I guess that would help me immensly.

If you were wondering what i was upto, while waiting for the miniTItan parts i thought i would start with the Raptor 50 Titan build. I do not have the engine/gyros yet but rest everything i have. I will invest in the engine/gyro sometime later .

I have never built a Raptor from scratch myself (although I have helped tune and crash-fix them multiple times, as my brother has one, so does many others amongst our two fields). 

Looks like http://www.raptortechnique.com is the best resource.  Documents like below are very detailed.

http://www.raptortechnique.com/manual/rt_30-50v2_manual.pdf

I do wish if there were "Finless" Bob style detailed build videos for the same.  They helped me with my first 50 size heli build tremendously (on a Trex 600 Nitro Pro).

Right Raptor tecnique is the site

Welcome Eroto62 to RCI ! As you can see i am new to helis and currently flying a mini Titan and building a Raptor 50 so would be needing advice from everyone who is into Helis .
Your experience is valuable and look forward to your contribution.

No problem lemme know
I've been building and flying Raptors for the last 3 years

Here is the location of the "Finless" Bob videos.  Not only the builds and test flights of many models are documented, there are also many "general information regarding RC helicopters" type of videos, which I would highly recommend to any heli flyer.

http://helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

RaptorTechnique does indeed help. I had a bunch of general question while going through the build, and would be grateful if those experienced could help :

1. How much do you tighten the ball-screws - The screws that go through the Ball ( of the ball link). Should it be so much that the ball is not movable ?

2. The manual indicates that you use a drop of CA glue for screws that go into plastic. I find that these screws are tight enough, so would I still need the CA glue ? (RaptorTechnique guy says he hasnt used any )

3. Where you connect the feathering shaft through the main rotor hub, the manual says to use Vaseline or Silicon Oil on the Flap dampeners. Now these dampeners are of rubber, and I wouldn't want to use Vaseline. Where can i get Silicon Oil , or its substitute ?

4. When assembling the main rotor grips, and using the Thrust bearings, do i need to grease the thrust bearings, or are they OK as it is ?

5. Are Hitec 5485-HB servos ( 5.2kg advertised torque at 4.8V )- http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWCE5&P=ML enough for Raptor 50 ?

6. The manual states to use one-way grease on the clutch, however I an not sure where this would really be used. Should it be within the clutch housing that has a bearing that seems to go only in one direction http://www.helidirect.com/thunder-tiger-one-way-clutch-raptor-30v2-titan-e550-e620-p-12800.hdx ?

7. Where all should i use grease ? Anything on Clutch bell assembly ?

8. Any other tips or links would be greatly appreciated.

Overall, I am amazed at the number of bearings and small parts that comprise a heli. I am taking the time to go through the assembly and double checking my work. So far it seems to be going great. I am happy to have started a kit, this ways I know the part names and what-goes-where a lot than if I bought a readymade kit.

-Gaurav

I will skip the Raptor specific ones to people who have more build experience on that.

1. Yes, the ball links should not be movable. It is those plastic links that are snapped on to them that move. 

2. It is not that critical during the first build. But if you are removing and then tightening them again, there it becomes significant.

3. I have been using a brand known as "TriFlow", which is silicone based.  Not sure what are the Indian equivalents. I have seen Singer machine oil being suggested.

4. Yes, the middle one with the balls on it are typically greased.

:giggle: 

I have got on the nerves of people here for claiming that building a heli from a kit is similar to building a plane from a kit.  Some people even claimed that one is not an "aeromodeller" unless one has has built planes from scratch. I giggled at them in my mind because I would have really loved to see their reactions when they try their first 50 size heli build, do the full radio setup on a CCPM heli and finally try to fly them  >:D

It is an intense experience, and it is good to see a seasoned airplane person confirm that.

I have answered your doubts within your questions read below.....

Yes it should be fixed so that it doesnt move - dont overtighten.

I havent used any either but it wouldnt harm to use it - youll just be safe that way

Silicon oil is available although vaseline isnt aproblem either

these bearings usually come greased but remember thrust bearings are smaller inner dia on one side and larger on the other. Check in the manual to see which side goes in. As far as I can remember the smaller dia goes towards the rotor blade

To begin with they are fine later you might want to move with something that has 7kg

on the inner orifice of the clutch into which the clutch shaft goes

there is a part which attaches onto the clutch bell and has teeth on it put grease inside it - basically the starter shaft goes through this if you know what I mean

The raptor uses control of pitch into the rotor blades via the trailing edge of control. move the stuff around so the control goes in through the leading edge. I know this works as I have done it. you will need to flip a lot of the parts in the head. But since I notice you are a beginner its best to maybe leave it this way for now.

Glad to be of help

Exactly ! It is indeed an intense experience and I love it ! After so many years of building(scratch,kit,ARF) airplanes, its a good challenge for me to assemble this 50 size heli. Hopefully i will get it up all set up correctly.

Thank you Anwar and Eroto62 for your replies.
So far the build has progressed quite well, and I am at the point where i have the main frame, rotor head and tail boom assembled. Waiting to get an engine to complete the final assembly. I also need to install the servos and linkages.
I am glad i have, so far not lost a screw, or one of the million tiny parts that comprise a heli. Also when assembling, i open the part-bags and sort the stuff so I get to know the names of what is called what.Then i read the manual a couple of times before doing a dry-assembly .

One major difference between airplane and heli building is, that with airplanes, you actually "create" or "build" parts. Here its just a matter of assembling. Not that i say this does not require skills, but I feel airplane kit/scratch building gives you a higher satisfaction :)

I am enjoying the build thoroughly though, and i hope i will get this screw and ball bearing machine to actually hover one day.

It is a matter of perspective, right ?  If you think about the head of the heli being "a part", you are building/assembling that part; just as you build/assemble a wing from its parts.

The added fun is in scratch building (not building from kits), where you substitute parts with locally available material. That aspect is certainly missing in heli builds.  I guess it is compensated by the careful setup needed on helis :D

Lol ! Everything indeed is a matter of perspective :)

Couple of quick questions :
1. How and why is the governor used ? Is it recommended for a newbie to helis, like me ?
2. How do we measure the head RPM . I do have a tachometer that i used for airplanes.Can this be used ?

Thx !

any replies on this ? how to measure head RPM using an airplane tachometer ?
Also any way to balance the main rotor blades ?

Governor is used to maintain a constant headspeed on helis. This really helps in the case of nitro helis, where the engines can get damaged  either if they over rev, or if too much pitch loads the engines while it has not enough throttle/rpm.  Governors work by reading the actual rpm of the engine (usually from a magnet places on the engine cooling fan), and then adjusting the throttle servo to ensure that the engine is supplied with enough fuel to maintain the head speed regardless of the speed/orientation/pitch of the heli.  This allows for crisp 3D performance, at the same time safe guards the engine.  For a beginner, governors are barely "nice-to-have"s.  Just make sure your throttle curve is reasonable (and does not run into unsafely high headspeeds).

As far as tachs are concerned, there are multiple types, and their usage also varies.  The short answer is that you can typically use the same for both airplanes and helis.  How to use them depends on your specific model.

You can get little contraptions to balance the blades, there are other DIY methods, just search for them.  Typically I don't spend time on them, as we tend to buy pre-balanced ones.  The bigger issue one should worry about is "blade tracking", where one blade rotates at a different plane than the other (you can see two separate "disc"s made by each of the blades when you hover the heli at eye-level, instead of just one disc).

Recently I saw Bob Finless' video on Ball links.
I checked and saw that most of the links on my Raptor 50 are too tight.
Do you think i should bother to invest in a resizing tool and get a better fit on the links ?

:salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

You can resize them a bit if they are tight, but don't make them very loose. The Raptor links tend to loosen by themselves after a few flights.

Thanks Rajesh,
Would it matter if i didnt resize them at all ? They are a little tight but if you think they would loosen up with a few flights, then i should perhaps not bother with the resizing tool ?

Some times the links are too tight. It might feel twitchy if the linkage sticks. In such cases it is better to resize. Another thing to watch out is the battery drain. The servos have more work to do and could consume upto 400-450mAh per flight. When the links are smooth, it'll come down to about 300 or even less.

Thanks Rajesh,
I guess i will get a ball link resizing tool and loosen the links , a little bit, as I feel they are very tight.

At this point, i have the main heli frame all set up, engine and servos installed. Will need to get hold of a ball link resizing tool and then move on to the radio setup/configuration ( fun part !!! )

Hopefully by the end of this month i should be able to maiden this . Wooohhooooo !!

The courier man came yeterday and delivered Rotor's parcel. I had ordered Ball link resizing tool, pliers and some other stuff.

Will need to resize all ball links as they are just too stiff. I have seen the Finless video, so will be following that.

The gyro has still not arrived. Hopefully in a few more days. Then i will have everything for this heli.

I "hope" to maiden this during the Holi holidays !!!

I am at the point here where all the build is complete and i need to do the radio setup.
The gyro has still not arrived, but other than that everything is in place.

Resizing ball links really helped the controls are smoother now. Earlier they were tight and i had wondered why, because everything had ball bearings in them.

As far as radio setup is concerned :
Aileron control is OK ithink
Elevator is OK too.
Collective, i have a question here again. Since i followed the beginners setup for linkages, the collective range I am getting is -2 to +10 . Now at mid throttle the pitch should be 0 right ? Kinda confusing. The manual states that the control rod lengths adjusted so that at mid throttle the pitch should be +5.5

I guess this is similar to what I had earlier asked on the mini Titan build.

One thing i am concerned about, is that on the servos, I had to install the ball links on the horns. Now there is a tiny nut at the bottom, and though i used some locktitie I am concerned this might vibrate out ?

Also, on the throttle arm, the arm was so thick that the nut was not installed. Should i use some epoxy here ?

I am praying that my gyro comes soon now, Then i would be all set !!!

It is a simple rule. Make sure your pitch curve is linear (-100,0,100 in Futaba radios, 0,50,100 in JR etc). Then setup pitch as if you are preparing for full 3D setup. Go for -10,0,+10 or something like that (depending on the capability of the heli and the flyer, it can be -13,0,+13).  Once this is confirmed (including the fact that the pitch is 0 at mid stick), adjust the pitch curve for normal/hovering mode to something like -30, +50, +100 (in a Futaba radio), and you will get the -3,+5,+10 pitch you need on the blades for hovering.


I use the non-permanent locktite on those nuts, and they work fine. The situation is pretty much the same as in airplanes.

If you are inserting a nut into a plastic arm, a TINY bit of CA can help strengthen it.

Thanks Anwar,
I am just loving to build this heli. For various reasons, first I have learnt a lot by going through the build, that I would have missed had I not undertaken this project.
Secondly I didnt loose or damage a single part during the build, which I was very concerned about.
Next, the servo setup I have now is pretty neat ( according to me ). Setting this up was much easier than the E-CCPM setup, where touching something always changed something else.
Here is what I have :
Throttle : Servo arm parallel to engine carb arm. At mid stick perpendicular to servo.
Aileron : Swash level. Servo arm pendicular to body
Elevator. Swash level. servo arm parallel to the bell crank, and the elevator arm penpendicular.
Collective. Total travel : -10 to +10 . At midstick, pitch 0 and servo arm parallel to body.

The EPA and subtrims did not need much tweaking. I did touch the EPA for throttle and collective, but its like 5-10 point on either side only.

I do have a bunch of questions, for Anwar, Rotorzone, and other experienced heli fliers.
Will post tomorrow with pictures.

Ok, here are some pictures.
I am looking forward to some feedback form Anwar and Rotorzone, as this is my first heli build, and I have no one around me to inspect this.

I do have some questions that I will be posting here.

First picture shows the elevator setup. Swash level, Servo arm parallel to the bellcrank and contorl lever vertical

Second one is the battery and RX installation. It doesnt look very neat but what i did was, wrapped the battery in foam. Then attached it with Velcro to the Heli frame. Put the Rx over it and strapped it to the frame with rubberbands. Is this OK ?

Next is the picture of servo with Collective at midstick ( 0 ) . Shows the servo arm parallel and swach at middle point.

Last picture here shows the throttle at Idle. Now something extremely important. I cannot see the carb, since is gone inside the frame, now I forgot which direction to move the lever to get the throttle to idle. Please see the picture and confirm if you think the throttle is indeed at idle.
Engine is vertically installed, with the head towards the left.

Thanks !!!

More coming here.

Another shot of the battery and Rx installation

Completed Side view of the heli, with the canopy. Looks gorgeous. I did mess up a bit with the decals, because of the compound curves in the front.

Last picture - top view of the canopy. I installed a Voltwatch so i can easily view how much battery is remaining.

One more question. The one/off switch is concealed within the canopy. What is the standard procedure here. Everytime i take off the canopy to switch the heli on and off ?

I used to mount my rx and battery the same stack method.

The throttle is at idle in the picture. The carb opens in the same direction as any airplane engines if you need a reference.

On the side of the canopy there is a oval shaped projection. You can cut that out to form a hole for airflow. You'll be able to access the switch also through this hole. Let me know if this is not clear I'll highlight the location in your pic.

Don't forget the tail pin mod before you fly. Also it is a good idea to change the muffler bolts to longer ones and add lock nuts. Most muffler threads will strip and you'll be forced to do this later anyway.

Thanks Rajesh,

1. On the side of canopy, yes i see the oval projections. Is it advisable to cut out on both sides for airflow ?

2. Whats the tail pin mod. Please point me to a link

3. The engine , RL-53 has the throttle lever designed for a pull-pull setup, however the kit came with only one linkage rod. Am i safe with that ? Or should i get a second rod and do the pull-pull setup.

Also, on the throttle, when i screwed in the linkage boll, there was not enoguh thread on the opposite end to tighten the nut. Should i just leave it like that ? Or is that too risky.

I am a little worried, as if i loose throttle control on a level it could be very very dangerous !

Perhaps you referred to this ?
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t522066p1/

Any other critical / good-to-have mods i should do before my first flight ?

Yes, that is the mod. Use heatshrink and secure it with a tiny bit of CA.

I cut both sides of canopy on mine.

People have reported push pull as a solution to old sticky carb problem. If you have a new style carb, it should be fine. I have not noticed any problems in mine yet.

When you start doing fast backward flights you need to secure your canopy better. The canopy clip will slip off the skids and the canopy could jam the controls to swash.

Same here on two of the issues (although the heli is different).

1.  Even though the carb/throttle arm on the OS 50 SX-Hs (and couple of  TT Redline 53s) most of us use on our Trex 600 Nitros have push-pull capability, we only use one side of it.  It works fine, and is what is recommended in the manual too.  Typically the torque requirements for the throttle are pretty low.

2.  If you secure the ball-link with a tiny bit of CA, and you are convinced that enough of the threads on the ball link have a good grip on the servo arm, it should be fine.

Ok thats great then.
One question, since the carb is all concealed, what is the recommended procedure to insert after run oil. Through the fuel line ? That is usually not the best way because of the 0-rings in the needle.

Please offer suggestions.
I am waiting for the spartan gyro + futaba rudder servo to come. rest all i complete.
Oh, yes i need to get the glow extension, and spares from Rotorzone too.

-Gaurav

Where did you buy this from? How much did you pay? What engine are you using?

Got this one from Rajesh/Rotorzone here. 16.5K i think was the price.

The engine i am using is TT 53 RL.

Guys, I am going to start my heli for the first time today !!
Wish me luck !
Since the engine is brand new, will be following the breakin instructions to run it rich and for short intervals. I have everything setup correctly ( hopefully ) and will post an update here very soon.
Will try and get a video of the entire procedure too !

All the best Gaurav! May your maiden go well! :thumbsup:

Nice Addition to your hangar Gaurav! Thanks to Rajesh too for enabling the flyers with such nice products !! KUDOS!!
All the best for the maiden!

All the best ! 

BTW, what fuel are you going to use ?

Well, Got some good news. The maiden was perfect !!! Here is a log of what happened.
4:30 pm, I take my new Raptor 50 to my garden, accompanied by Amir ( fellow aeromodeller ) .
Fuel used is home brew fuel with 22% castor/synthetic blend and rest methanol. No Nitro. Though I usually use 19-20% on 2 stroke airplanes, I increased the oil content here, because the TT manual recommends 25% oil for breakin.

opened the needle 3 turns, as suggested, and fueled her up. After priming , the engine started quickly. As I increased power, around mid throttle the engine quit.
Found out that the glow plug was loose.
Tightened and started again. Since the engine was very rich, engine was sluggish.
I had the curves set as ;
Pitch : Linear -2 to +10
Throttle: Linear 0 to 100.

Anxiously increased power, and at around 80% throttle, the heli got light on skids !!
Increased power a little more and the heli got into a hover ! Just needed 3 clicks of right aileron and thats it !!!!
After a few seconds of hovering, landed and stopped the engine to let it cool.
Did another hover, which was a little longer and then called it a day.
Overall did one full tank and about 5 minute of hovering.

Video will come very soon.

Now, a couple of questions for the experts here :
1. After the flight, i noted that the clutch bell assembly was hot. Is that normal ?
2. Though will do a complete checkup, any special bearing/joint/connection to be inspected ?
3. Though i did grease the one way bearing, and the clutch, i am a little apprehensive that I may not have done it correctly, and that it may cause a problem.
Should the clutch liner be oiled ? or is it supposed to be dry ?

Overall very very happy. I took this up as a challenge, to build a complete 50 size kit, without any local help or presence of an experienced modeller, and to have made it up to this day is very satisfying.
Thanks everyone for their wishes. I hope to do some regular flying with this bird, and post video/more information here, soon.

-Gaurav

Hurray! {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} Good to know it went well. Waiting for videos!   :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

This had me stumped. I have never checked the temperature of the clutch. I'd expect it to be a little warm, but not hot. The only reason for it to get hot would be if the clutch is slipping. But that would be obvious from the lack of power.

Another possibility is if the bearing inside the clutch is damaged, but that should not be the case as yours is new. Eventually the residues from the clutch will get to the bearing and it will need to be serviced or replaced.

Do an overall check. In a heli, you never know where a problem can develop.

If it turns smoothly leave it alone. I hope you used the TT grease. It is a light grease like silicon grease. If you used a thick grease, then you need to use a light grease or oil.

Clutch should not slip. For this it has to be totally free of oil and dry.

Since you are using the TT53 engine, make sure you just snug the carb bolts enough to make it airtight. Do not over tighten it. Over tightening it will lead to stickiness.

Thanks Rajesh,
I did use the TT grease, and so hope it will work out well for me.
I did another 2 flights yesterday. Again mostly hovering. Since engine was new, I cycled between hovering for 1-2 minutes then letting it cool and then hovering again etc.

Re; engine tuning. I started out with the needle 3 turns open, as indicated in the manual, but that was wayyy too rich . THe manual said that you should hover with this.
Now, my engine was dieing when i increased power, so i had to close the needle nearly a complete turn, in order for it to be rich and still hover.

Fuel i am using is : 78% methnol, and rest castor/synthetic blend.

Whats the usual needle setting on this engine ?
 

I think you may be missing the 3rd needle on this !  Yes, the typical carb that comes with this engine has a "middle needle" and if the other two does not handle your needs, you may need to mess with this.

And 2 turns on the main needle is within the range of acceptable values. I think we went lesser than that on a friend's TT RL53 on our field (for regular flying, can't remember the number of turns for break in as it was being changed slowly from one flight to another).

I will look for the middle needle. I was worried about the 2 turns , because my engine is new and just breaking in and did not want to run it lean. At 2 turns, the engine was not lean at all, though not slobbering rich. Do you think it would be OK to continue flying with this for a few more flights before leaning it out ?

Also, how hot should a heli engine get ? i found mine to be quite hot ! Since i am used to airplane engines, this seems to have gotten much hotter .
Is that normal too ?

I just do not want to do anything that would damage the engine/heli, since I have a long way to go and need this setup to perform for me for a few hundred flights :)
My goal is to hold an inverted hover at eye-level. Its still a dream, but will happen someday.
After all getting the 50 sized heli and being able to build and fly solo was also a dream that was realized.

TT53 does not have a 3rd needle like the new OS55 has. So there isn't much you can do about the midrange. It is usually a compromise between midrange and low end.

Considering that you are not using nitro, 2 turns sounds ok. But the engine should not be getting hot. When running rich, the backplate should be only a little above ambient temp. You should be able to keep your finger there comfortably for ever.

Not sure if all carbs supplied with the TT RL .53 has it, but the one we played with definitely had one.  And we found it after some scratching of our heads with the other two needles (while trying to get max rpm for 3D using 30% nitro) !

http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=97632
http://www.rcheliresource.com/review-thunder-tiger-redline-53-helicopter-engine/  (search for the word hidden)

The best tuning method I found for heli engines where you can touch the backplate is to be able to keep the finger there for 3 to 5 seconds.  At this point, the engine is not too rich or too lean.  For break-in (where you are now), you should be able to keep to finger there forever and it should feel very warm (not hot), like Rajesh said.  If this is satisfied, then do not worry about the number of turns, it is whatever it is.

BTW, you have to check the backplate temperature as soon as you land (from hovering or flying) and go to idle rpm, as the temperature seems to seep in and rise soon afterwards. And make sure you touch the backplate itself, not any other place, as the reference temperatures are different for different parts of the engine. 

Thanks Anwar, Rajesh

I think my backplate temperature is good. Right after turning the engine off ( after a 3 minute hover ), i find that the backplate it not that hot and i can touch it for as long as i want. Though it does seem to get hot after a minute or so, even with the engine turned off. Looks like the temperature seeps in, as you said.

Now i have a few questions. Would be grateful of Anwar/Rajesh and any others who are experienced could help  me.

1. First I am not very sure if i have the rudder servo arm setup correctly. See picture of how i have it in Rate mode with rudder at neutral. Servo arm is perpendicular to the servo, but then, since the servo is mounted at an angle the arm is not perpendicular to the boom. Should this be made perpendicular to the boom instead ?

2.  I have the ball link mounted on one hole away from the end. Is this OK, or should i go for the last hole on the servo arm ?

3. When I have the engine idling at the lowest setting, ( ie if i reduce the trim further engine dies ), and if i leave the main blades, they start rotating very slowly. Looks like the clutch is not disengaging ? Is that how it should be ? or should the main blades not move at all at idle ?

4. I have had 4 tanks of fuel through y engine at rich setting, and I want to lean out the HSN a bit. Before that, i would like to know what is usually the best throttle I should plan on hovering.
Ie at midstick, pitch is around 5 degrees. Should the throttle be at 80 ? Whats the suggested throttle curve I should be using ?

5. When in a hover, at eye level, though i see 2 discs and not 3 , the main blades seem to be going all over the place. I mean it still makes one disc but its not smooth. Not ure how i can explain this here. Perhaps will post a video. What do you think the reason is ? Less headspeed ? or tracking ?

I guess thats it for now.
Thanks again.
-Gaurav

It is a terminology issue between us. If you call that 3rd needle what do you call the mid range needle in OS55HZ and the 90 engines ? The RL53 needle you are referring to sits opposite the low end needle. It provides a way to move the fuel injection point in the carb airflow (let's not consider the migration problem now, that is a separate issue). What effect this has is beyond my understanding. I don't know how this can be used to tune the midrange vs idle. Sounds like you fiddled with it and found some difference. Will be interested in knowing if you reached any understanding.

Can't remember all the details as this was almost a year ago, and I was helping a friend who was trying to do tic-tocs in one place. Tuning the main needle alone killed mid range performance, and finally we found this needle, and that did fix the mid-range issue. 

He has since sold that Trex 600 NP heli, and got the Align 600NSP with the .55 engine (a great deal from helipross.com). The power he gets on this new setup is just awesome !

The servo horn and the control rod should be at 90deg angle.


Typically 11-13mm from the servo centre works fine.


This is normal when engine is running rich. You need a faster idle to keep the engine running which engages the clutch. Once running in is over and you are able to lean the engine, you'll get a lower stable idle RPM. Clutch will be disengaged then.


The proper way to set the throttle curve is by measuring RPM. If you don't have a heli tach, you can use FFT analysis of the engine sound. My hovering throttle position is around 60% usually.


Are the blades snug in the grips ? Wooden blades are notorious for tracking issues. They might be perfect one flight and off the next. If you are using carbon blades, then check for play all the way from servos to the blade grips.

Was it to fix the gap due to a migrated needle or to move the fuel injection point ?

Must be the fuel injection point, as I don't recall the low needle moving by itself (I assume that is what you are calling the "migrated" needle).  I never really thought about the implications of this needle, as this was a two session affair (spent one day trying to figure this out for an hour or so, gave up, went home and read upon it, came back the next day and tried the middle needle thing, and it worked).  Never revisited this after that, and after the initial appreciation/hooplah about the RL .53, people who wanted high performance started getting other brands (YS, Novarossi, OS55 etc) again.

I want to check my main rotor RPM. Since i do not have a Heli tach, but I do have an optical airplane tachometer, how about fixing the tachometer vertically in the ground, underneath the main rotor and raising the RPM to just below hover and eyeballing the RPM ? I know it sounds dangerous, but perhaps thats the only way for me to know the RPM ?

Since I am new to helis I cannot really "know" the RPM, by just listening to the sound of the engine, but want to know the headspeed.

BTW, now that I have my heli going, i will be looking forward to setting up the gyro/tail servo properly, in rate mode with no drift, and then also in tuning the engine.
Expect to do this over the next few days.

It is the the "3rd needle" that migrates, not the low end.

TT53 still has its place as others are priced at a significant premium. I expected align 55 to be competitive, but hasn't been the case.

Gaurav,

You could zip tie the tach to frame or tail boom. If your tach has the capability to latch the peak RPM it'd be easier to just read it after it lands.

Was not aware of that. But I do remember that once we set it, he never mentioned having to touch it again.

I saw on the forums many people putting OS carbs in the RL53, but it also seems that there are two versions of the TT carb itself. 


You can try to keep the heli on a table with the skids tied down, adjust the pitch curve so that it does not lift off, and measure from underneath (VERY CAREFULLY, of course!).  But it is not a true test, and the loading effects of lift off are lost, but the variance should not be huge. 

Quick question on the tail servo installation. When i have the arm perpendicular to the control rod, tail slider is in the center of the shaft. and in rate mode the heli rotates to the left ( counter clockwise ) .
However there isnt any thread left on the control rod , at both ends to tighten further. Ie the links are fully tightened.

Any ideas on how to get this setup correctly ?

The raptor tail control rod comes with two pieces joined together. So just loosen that joint and move the individual linkage rods inside further ? :headscratch:

Mine seems to be just one long rod, with threads on both ends where the links attach... Maybe you saw a different Raptor version ?

This is the one I remember :

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=ACEPV0507&Category_Code=TITAN

It is possible that there are two mounting positions for the tail servo. Will wait for Rajesh to chip in :)

Also Rajesh, how did you come to know about the needle migration issue ?  Was that something you noticed after we started discussing on this thread, or were you aware of this issue from before ?

The titan has boom (well, almost) mounted servo.

Hope you have the horn side of the servo towards the nose.  You do end up using all the threads to get the right tail pitch. You should be pretty close to the required length unless you are running the belt loose. Try one more turn at both ends.

About the TT53, I was already aware of the issues and fixes since I have two of those engines.

I saw some people on the forums mounting the tail servo in the front to avoid exhaust build up, even on the Titan. 

Also the build manual seemed to show that the servo arm was closer to the tail than the nose :headscratch:  Saw the same on Titan pictures too.

Rajesh,
I have my tail servo mounted so that the horn side is towards the tail.
That is how it is shown in the manual ! And the tail servo faces towards the right.

Anwar, indeed there are 2 mounting options and hardware given for both, as you indicated. However I opted for the tail boom installation of servo, as that was simpler. I still have those 2 rods, including the bent one, but never used those.

Right now, the tail pitch control assembly links directly to the servo mounted on the boom, through one straight rod.

BTW the Raptor is much more stable than the mini Titan. In fact feels easier too. The first day I was a little nervous, but now i seem to love it ! .
Hope to start doing forward flights on Sunday !

I'm out of station right now, so can't take a look at my helis to confirm. But if you turn the servo around, looks like your problem will be solved ?

I have had around 10 flights on my heli now. Mostly hoverings and slow flights .
I have leaned out the high speed needle a bit and the engine seems to perform more smoothly.
I do have a bunch of questions . Looking out to Anwar/RotorZone to assist :

1. I havent yet tweaked the Low speed needle yet. On a brand new engine, is this something that is usually needed ? On airplane engines we do not touch this (mostly) on new engines and the factory setting is good enough.
In my case of TT 53RL, i think that the low speed needle is rich, since at idle, the clutch is not disengaging.Leaning would lead to a slower idle ? Also when I advance the throttle, from 0-45% the engine revs up smoothly, but after that it coughs up a lot of smoke and the increase in power is sluggish.

2. This one is important. How do i detect vibration on the heli, and how much is OK ? I am concerned because though I am hovering OK, i noted that on my training gear i had small dents on where the heli skids touched the CF frame. Vibration might have caused the skids to "rub" against the CF rods and dent them out. Also when on the hover, though i do not see the heli shaking a lot, i do note that some parts like the exhaust extension seems to flutter.
I know vibration is not a good thing, but then perhaps its because my engine is still rich ?

I had a video taken today. Will post it here soon.
-Gaurav

1. Let me put the disclaimer first that about 80% of my nitro experience is on the Align/OS 50 hyper engine. What I found in general is that a lot of times, I had lean the low needle from 10 to 40degrees during break-in for the engine to stop quitting frequently. 

But this may very from engine to engine.  The idea is to get a good transition from low to high, the idle is smooth, and the high conforms to the 3 to 5 second rule (can be a little rich).

Leaning the low end allows you to run the engine at lower throttle, thus helping the clutch to disengage.  Looks like the smoke indicates you are still running it too rich.  Use the backplate touch technique to lean the high needle until you see improvement.

2. This is, at least for me, very hard to quanitify :(  I can say whether the vibration is OK only in person.  What seems true is that quite a bit of vibration is normal/expected (again, quantifying is the problem). 

Regarding the training gear / skids issue, we need clarification whether the original skids are the ones with the dent, or the added training gears ?  In general, CF frames are sharp, and people tend to sand the edges to prevent them from cutting through stuff (wiring, your hands, etc).  Also, if something does touch those sharp edges, people tend to provide some kind of padding (it can be sleeves in the case wiring, foam padding in other cases etc).

One more thing to note is that needle settings are dependent on the fuel you use. The factory settings are usually for 30% nitro. Since you are using no nitro, your settings will be on the leaner side.

The mid range sluggishness or even quitting is common when rich. It is the toughest part of tuning a heli engine in my experience. Getting the balance between smooth idle, clean midrange and low enough engine temperature is not easy for a newbie. Commercial fuel blends help in this compared to homebrew castor-methanol. Also the more the nitro the easier it is supposed to be to tune.

On the other hand once you spool up and switch to idle up, you are never in the problematic mid range throttle position. So it is not so much of a concern.

Ok here is a video, we shot at out airshow. It isnt the best, but i guess you can see how this bird is flying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwpPeNuwJ7A
Few things to note :
 At the beginning, as i increase throttle, note the sluggishness and loss of rpm at midstick, and from where it picks up.
How does the engine sound. Looks like its still too rich ? Does vibration look OK to you all ?

Thats about it. Look forward to your comments !

I am currently using a 1500mAh NiCad for my RX on my heli. However, I am not too happy with it. I seem to be getting a max of 4 flights before the voltage indicator starts showing caution.

I have a 6.6V A123 pack 2200maH that i want to use. However my rudder servo is Futaba 9254, the specs of which specifically say not to use over 4.8V.

Now, can I just buy this voltage regulator and use it between the Gyro and servo ?
Would it be safe to use ? How does it lower the voltage ?

Thanks !

Many people who use the Align 2 in 1 regulator that provides 6v to all the electronics, but they use a step down regulator for gyros/tail servos that do not support 6v. 

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/18532/n/Align-51V-Two-Way-Step-Down-Voltage-Regulator

It is just a diode each on the forward and reverse paths that drops about 0.7v, with the resultant voltage just over 5 volts (instead of 4.8v).

Where you use the step-down depends whether both your gyro and tali servo are 4.8v rated...  if the gyro is 6v capable and the tail servo can only take 4.8v, then the step down goes between the gyro and the tail servo.  Otherwise it goes between the receiver and the gyro.

As I mentioned, that i am not too happy with the 1500mah nicad on my heli, I have decided to upgrade the RX batter to A123 6.6V 2200mAh pack. I have one of these packs from Enerland systems - http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8249&Product_Name=A123_Systems_2300_6.6v_2S1P_Rx_pack_Lithium_ion

All my cyclic/collective servos and the Spartan gyro is compatible with the higher voltage, EXCEPT the rudder servo which is Futaba 9254 and uses 4.8V only.
Now, since I do not want to use a voltage regulator, plus the diode one is out of stock with rotor ), I am going to replace my rudder servo and use the Turnigy BLS980 Digital Brushless Heli Rudder Servo :
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9980&Product_Name=Turnigy_BLS980_Digital_Brushless_Heli_Rudder_Servo_3.1kg/.03sec/58g_

I have this in my stock, and going to replace that today.

Never new about this tail servo... please post your comments after flying it for some time. 

I see more and more Align DS650s (and some Futaba BLS251s) as tail servos amongst our friends these days.

This came up recently on HK website. I thought i would give it a try considering the good specs. Will post a review/experience after a few flights.

Well ok, I changed the NiCad to the A123 and swapped the trusty Futaba 9254 with a Turnigy BLS980 one.
I felt no difference. Turnigy is faster, and works flawlessly ( as of now ) .
I did have to reverse the settings but otherwise i can say it works great. Since the change I have done 5 flights so far and its held the tail like a rock and yet given me fast piros .

I am having a great time with the Raptor 50. Very stable and visible in the air.
One thing i wanted to know was, that everyone says NOT to do 3D with the woodies. What exactly does 3D constitute ?
Can i try to do a flip with wooden blade ? Or loops/rolls ( Since i am learning they may not be the smoothest ) . Can the woodies handle all of these  ?

How do you charge A123? Also some people were commenting that for the price of 76$ the servo should be atleast programmable.

My Tahmazo ( and most other chatrgers today ) Support Life. Charging is pretty much like Lipo, just different voltages.

About the servo, I didnt care if it was programmable, as i would have never bought the programmer.
Time will tell if it really was worth it or not .

Oh crap, i didnt know a123 was li fe  ;D

 But why Li fe, why not Lipoly?

A123 battery voltage is 3.3V per cell and 2Cell pack is 6.6V and does not require a voltage regulator.
In my opinion thats a big advantage. Plus are safer.

Peak charge voltage -3.6v officially but can go up to 4.2 with little damage (but not regularly) for A123.
source = http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/lithium-a123.htm

so 3.6 X 2 = 7.2, will not damage electronics soon in the long run?

Well if you use a 5Cell Nicad of 1.2V then please search and post  what the max/peak voltage can be.

Please dont get offended my friend. Well I never considered people using 5 NiCDs. When some one says RX NICD, for some reason only 4 cells come into my mind. Probably coz I have a 4 cell NICD holder with me. and I always use esc becs for helis I have ;D as they are small Helis.

Hey buddy,
I wasnt offended. Just typed that message from my cell and couldnt really look up the exact voltages.

There are 2 types of Nicad Rx packs people use. 4Cell that has a 4.9V and 5Cell that has a 6V.
Majority of servos and nearly all rxs are capable of handling the 5Cell Nicad ie 6V

Now the peak charged voltage of NiCd is around 1.4V This makes the pack 7V . Now if the RX can tolerate 7V then why not 7.2V

That was all theoretical. I have had over 100 flights on my Javellin airplane, that has a A123 pack. So far no issues.

Good to know that RXs are that flexible. When I got into this hobby, I was scared to even give above 5V to the RX as the manual said 4.8 V. ;D

Here's another video of my flying my Raptor 50 yesterday.
Did 3 tank full of flights yesterday and done another 3 today. Confidence level gone up a lot.
However with the kind of stability and visibility in air this offers, Mini Titan has taken a back seat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNCklc4d7hI

Anwar, Rajesh,

I have a question here. Now that I am comfortable flying, I want to upgrade my Collective ( and perhaps Cyclic  ) servos.
Currently using the Hitec 5485 digital . which are the cheapest Karbonite ones.
Please suggest what you think would be the best servo i should be using , that would last me a long time.

Thanks
Gaurav

Being the Align fan boy I am, I would go with the Align DS610s :giggle:. 

Seriously, I believe in what I see on practically every other recent heli on the field, and have only good things to say about these.  They are a bit noisy, but then who cares once the engine gets going !

People on the forums repeatedly mention that they are pretty much equal to the JR DS8717 (probably the best servo these days), but then 40% the price !

The Align DS620s which are a bit more speed with a bit less torque is another option.

you recommend this for collective as well as cyclic ?

People use them both as swash servos on Trex 600s and Trex 700s, doing hard 3D. Therefore I see no issues with either being used.  If you want the collective one to have more torque (since the Raptor is non CCPM), go with the DS610 for collective, and either for the cyclic. I think the DS620s are slightly cheaper than the DS610s.

Ok, and I presume, will have no problem using it with my Futaba servo ?
Anyone in India stocking these ? Or do i go the helipross route

I have used Futaba 9252 and Ace RC DS1213. DS610 beats them on specs/price. I'd try them if I were to build a heli now.

Only thing to watch out for would be if you are using a regulator. High torque and speed comes at the cost of higher current consumption. We need to consider the hot climate we have that reduces the headroom these regulators have. For example I decided against flying my last pack today considering how hot the ESC heat sink got just by sitting inside the car. I thought it was better to keep it inside the car between flights than leave it exposed to the sun. It didn't help. Two months back in colder climate it never used to get that hot even during a flight. But if they work in Anwar's desert it should work here just fine.

No suggestions from the Hitec camp ?

Best deal found so far : http://www.readyheli.com/
3 for $190

No personal experience, noticed the store on US forums... http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=3464

Servo ? If you mean your Futaba radio/receiver, then absolutely no issues. 

BTW, they use Futaba compatible servo arms (as opposed to JR or Hitec servo arms).

Here is a video from my todays flying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flC1BIW3yPo

Cmon guys,
Do comment on the videos ! It was a dream come true for me to fly the heli like this and post a video here.

How can people(me) feeling jealous of you comment on the video   ;D

Just kidding! Nice Heli and nice flying :thumbsup:. I wish I was there.   :)

Also planning to upgrade the main blades to CF.
Is this OK ? http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2857&language=en

Yes. They are nice blades, and reasonably priced.  There are other premium/performance ones, but only true pros can spot the differences.

http://www.helipross.com/align-600d-pro-carbon-fiber-blades-h60190.html

It is great to see how far you have come in such a short time of activity (long duration, but months with no action in between!)  :thumbsup:  I hope your story prompts some other plank folks to also try helis ;)

But I am a little disappointed that you are only doing circuits one way (the "easy" way)... is it that you are trying to be slow and steady in your progress ? :headscratch:  That approach is fine, as long as you don't get into mental blocks and stay stuck in one place.

Some times I feel its better be slow rather than wasting time on crash and fix  ;) Also from what gaurav is doing, I cant say its slow. We started at the same time and he is a lot ahead of me (of course he has lots of place to fly in his back yard which I dont).

All I have got till now is just 20 battery packs of flight. ;)

Hey gaurav do some justice to your mini titan and the Trex Pro  ;D

The point is not rushing, it is to realize that a *conscious* effort is needed to master the various orientations/circuits.  I have seen people do the same circuits for many months, and finally they *have to* go on a buddy cable to break out of the mental block to make turns the other way. 

Even our Lavneet was saying that he was finding it difficult to do figure eights the other way (quite possible that it is due to lack of space where he was trying it... nonetheless).

Thanks Anwar for being appreciating and yet being critical. I know its difficult to get out of the comfort zone, but then thats needed in order to progress.
What made you think there was months of inaction in between. I do not think that has happened in the last many years.
I bought this Raptor in August last year, but then i think I did right by not going out to build it and fly it . I went to the mini Titan first, crashed it a few times, but in the process learnt to fly helis !
Then when i have moved to Raptor. It feels easy !

I do take things slowly. One new trick a day/session. Wait till you see me doing opposite figure 8's and piros .. :)
All coming soon here on this thread. Stay tuned !

BTW i have got nice companions with me - Amir, Ritesh and Kashif, who volunteer to take videos while I am flying .

Order for servos made .Hope to have then later this week.

That was what I was referring to... not building *this model* for a while.  Obviously, you were busy with other ways of preparing yourself ! :)

Ordered the servos from Infinty Hobby ( taiwan ) . I havent seen a faster service. They shipped and gave me a tracking number exactly within 30 minutes of making the payment.
Hopefully i will get everything Ok within the next few days !

Got the servos today ! In my last 15 years of online buying, i havent seen a faster service than this before.
They shipped within 30 minutes of making the payment, and gave me the tracking number, and I got the parcel in less than 3 working days ! Of course i chose the more expensive FedEx option.

Great site. Recommended. for those who urgently need heli parts.
-Gaurav

Rajesh, Anwar,
I have a question here. When i was installing that governor the other day, and took out the engine, i noticed that there was some fine black dust on the fan, maybe from the clutch liner ? and that the clutch had one side looking polished. I mean the clutch is all black in color, but one was shiny . There was no visible difference in size/shape etc, so wanted to confirm if this is an indication of something wrong going on ? causing the clutch to wear ? or is this normal ?

I checked up everything else, and that looked good. - No play in the started shaft, no play on main rotor etc etc.

BTW any tips to help avoid getting dust into the engine ? ( of course other than running it away from dusty areas )
Anyone used air filters etc ?

The dust and shiny clutch contact area are perfectly normal. However it should be shiny on both sides of the clutch where it contacts the bell liner, not just on one side.

Unless you take off from a paved surface, you will kick up a lot of dust.  People have tried to handle this using things like old carpets :)  One thing I do is to use low autos on all landings, as that reduces the head speed during landings.  Similarly for take-offs, do not hang around the ground for too long. 

BTW, dust is not much of practical problem, it is pretty rare that people have issues due to this alone.  Having dirt in the fuel (not enough filters) is a much bigger problem.

Flew my Raptor 50 yesterday evening, and had a great time. Did a lot of :
-Fast forward flights
-Figure eights - both directions :)
- Circles - both directions
- Stall turns. Must have done around 20 of these. Did at both ends of the box . Had fun !

Since I have wooden blades on still, I did not attempt a loop, but i was really tempted to !

Way to go :thumbsup:

You should be able to comfortably do loops and rolls on the wooden blades, having enough forward speed makes them even easier on the heli.

Don't forget to hit idle swtich  :thumbsup:

Some of my heli pics & links http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kw3nZDSR7o

Way to go chief, First pics of ur heli squardon. Can't wait to see the whole IAF (Indore Air Force) on RCI.
Sid put up the pics soon.

Not many things in life are more beautiful than that :giggle:

Great Fleet. and good to see Indore team up on RCI.
Do you have a shop in Indore ? Looks like a lot of goodies in stock ! Radios/servos etc.

BTW how do you compare the Raptor 50 Titan with the SE version and also with the 90 3D ?

Look forward to more pics/videos here.

We don't have store front but we deals in RC stuff n mfg. world best 'THE STYRO PLANE' in Indore.

Are u taking about the New Titan SE or Raptor 50 SE????

I m going for Align 700N (90 size). Raptor r good but Trex r better then TT (in my view)

Sunday flying Pics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1Zvfqc2FA

Can we add you to the mega list or RC outlets in India ? http://www.rcindia.org/rc-outlets-and-resellers/mega-list-of-all-rc-outlets-in-india/

Any pictures of your product ? :)


:thumbsup:  Still need to build mine.

More endorsement of the Align DS610 servos, by Mr Ramesh Tahlan on Facebook :thumbsup:

Yes Plz, We r Ambika My Own Models & Research Centre.
                  1,Rajabagh A.B.Road,Dewasnaka,Indore.(M.P.)
                  Mr.Pratap Singh Mob: 09302106345

Styro Plane-25
Specification
Wing Span   -   57"
Engine Req.  -   .20 to .25
Radio Req.   -   4 ch
AUW           -   1600 to 1650 Gms.
Price          -    Rs.3500+Shipping

More....
Styro Plane-46 Eco (Trainer)
Wing Span   -   66"
Engine Req.  -   .40 to .46
Radio Req.   -   4 ch
AUW           -   2400 to 2500 Gms.
Price          -    Rs.5500+Shipping

Styro Plane-46 Giant (Trainer)
Wing Span   -   72"
Engine Req.  -   .40 to .46
Radio Req.   -   4 ch
AUW           -   2500 to 2600 Gms.
Price          -    Rs.6500+Shipping

Quick update here. I got back to flying finally after a 4 month break !!
Got permission to fly at a nearby college ground in the mornings. It is huge and I plan to visit every morning at 6 ! .

Did 6 flights in the last 3 days and loved it ! Agenda is to :
- Do slow figure 8s in BOTH directions ( i note that the inward figure 8 still needs a lots of guts )
- Nose ins - Not just hover , but flying also ( read to try and do Figure Ts, and to ascend/descend )
- Circles, in both directions.
- Fast forward flight - with circles, and figure 8s in both directions
- Backward flying - slow .
- Auto rotation - start with baby autos and then move on ( Going to stock up on tail booms and blades to do this ! )

I want to stick to master the above, before moving to stall turns, 3D etc..

Got the wooden blades back on my heli, ( i figured that i will not need CF yet, unless i start with 3D ) .

More flying pictures from last Sunday !
Loving the heli a and practising on developing Nose in skills !

Someone asked via PM is the Align DS610 servos are noisy. Digital servos tend to "buzz", and the Align ones are somewhat noisier than the others. But the fact of the matter is that you only get to even notice that noise between when you power on and start the heli, after that the engine sound muffles out everything else.  This is not a consideration/issue by any means.

I have three Align DS610 servos on my sceadu and there is absolutely no noise at all. The pitch servo sometimes make a little bit of noise, thats it. Great Servos, thanks to Anwar for recommending it.

and you are telling now :o
I think you should put up a thread about it! 

Hi,

Thanx to Anwar and Second_ chance....Its coz of dem that i have been able to tune my RL53 engine...(Anwar bhai had asked me to post my experience with Rl53 in this topic...)

First tank: Main needle at 3 turnd and mix valve flush with carb... Temp at base plate: cant even keep finger for a second...Fuel: 15% tornado heli fuel

2nd tank: main needle 4 turns out and mix valve flush..Temp at base plate: too hot to touch....So, i panicked.. Packed up my stuff n went hom..

Did some research and changed all the clunk lines as weel as the fuel tank..(checked it up for air leak also)....(On Suggestion of Mr. Sharma..(second_chance)

Consulted Anwar: n first thing he suggested was open the third needle... ?Third needle in RL53? I havent heard bout it nor could see it....So,

Anwar posted few interesting threads and i got to know the location and the pros n cons of fiddling with the hidden needle...

3rd and 4th tank: temp did came down by quite a few degree i.e around 110degree celcius.....

I had changes the fuel at this point of time: 15% nitro; Klotz kl200 22%....

So, finally i had to open the hidden needle from 2''o clock position to 12'0 clock and bingo..the temp was aound 80degree celcius at head....main needle at 3 turns...

Today i had leaned the main needle by 3 clicks and temp was around..85 degree....

Will be posting the experience on IDLE up next week..

Once again thanx to Anwar and Second_chance

Doctor

I am interested in the 55 inch plane along with 0.25 engine. Am I too late ?