RC India

What's the best way to start in aeromodelling? Well i decided to start with a basic chuck glider. Got the simplest one i could find from India Model Makers , ISRO. Its a rubber powered foamie and it cost my pocket a mere Rs.150. Assembling it took just 10 minutes but fixing the wing took quite some time. The surface on which the wing had to be stuck was curved and was difficult to get it to form a dihedral.
Havent tested it yes - waiting for the glue to dry.
What kind of glue is used on foam models?
Have to figure out how to fix the rubber band. Its just one long 1 meter strand. Anyone tried anything like this before? Pics would help :)

I have attached snaps of it unassembled and partially assembled. The prop, rubber, and wheels are to be attached.

1. Easily available glues for foam - Fevicol, Fabric glue, Epoxy (araldite) etc. Expensive ones that have to be imported are Foam safe CA glues. Check the Hobbyking site.

2. The two ends of the rubber band have to be tied into a loop. I will try and post a pic of what I have. Else shoot off a mail to Saikat, he's a champion at building these things. only his scratch built models are way above this quality.

By the way, thats a nice model for 150/-. Let me see if the ISRO guys will sell me one.

Hmm... need to get myself some good old fevicol :)
Ya he will ship them. Contact details are included in the rc outlet list :)

Tested it today. It glides or i think it does. Well when i give it a gentle push and launch it horizontally it doesn fall like a stone. It moves downwards slowly and falls about 4 ft away from me. Is this good enough?

i saw some vids of bubberband powered gliders (but they were bigger in size)
after twisting the bubberband to maximum extent, they released it by hand, n it almost flew like the electric planes!
only diffrence was that the time period of flying was less!

also would like to add, that was RC rubberband powered plane!

Yup you can make them rc :)
There is another method i was told about. They use a rubberband to hold the rudder. A wick of appropriate length is attached to it and ignited prior to launch. The model will fly away from you and when the wick reaches the rubber band, the rubber will melt causing the rudder position to change and it turns and glides bact to the flyier :) Any one tried anything like this?

this is nice one,
i bought sameone for just Rs100 in Nagpur in March this yr, it gave me pretty good flight!!!

i was planning to convert it into electric RC. but find it too fragile so droped the idea!!!!!

Ashish

Any snaps? Was it a fomie?

Finished assembling it today.
I had problems with placing the rubber. Called Mr.Gupta (The person whom i bought it from). He is very encouraging and explained what was to be done. The 90cm rubber was made into a loop by tying it. The single loop was made into two loops and placed in the model. (shown in pics). Then applied oil throughly to the rubber, prop shaft (if you can call it that) and the wheels. The prop rotates very smoothly now.
Attached the landing assembly and tried it on the floor with 45 turns. And it moved fwd for quite a distance to my surprise! Was really nice to see my first model move even though its on the floor :D (you guys must be thinking- "what a noob" :D)
Tried it with 60 turns and it took off and dropped. :)  It sort of went into a partial loop so im guessing the tail is heavy?
Have to try it in the field next and learn to trim it well :)

PS: Im presenting everything with details hoping it helps other beginners like me.

Two more...

You need to give it 200 turns and launch it into the wind at an angle of 30 degrees or so. She should fly on power for about 7 - 10  secs and then glide back. Have fun! :thumbsup:

Will do :) Coll starts tomorow so wont be able to try it in the field for some time :(

from the picture i could say it was same one, even prop looks same!!!!! i dont hav any pics!!!

it flys gentle!!! gave it gentle and level push.......

i think i bought it for only Rs 75!!! it was more than 6 months so cant remember exact price!!!

That's a nice one, Had one for my son, who ultimately destroyed it. I had picked it up in Bangalore but do not remember from who.
And BTW that is not a chuck glider  :P

Ya true boxcar :D

Couldn't resist trying it out so tried it in the hall when mom wasn't looking :) It flew for a distance of 20 feet with ease then crashed into the wall. So tried it on the street with 70 turns approx. It flew like a charm for a distance of 30 feet and to a height of 20 feet, then crashed into my neighbours window with a bang! Picked it up and ran for dear life :D

The rubber is very stiff and prop doesnt spin with ease without oil. I used coconut oil for the rubber as of now. Any other suggstions on oil that can be used?
Today when i tried it the wings were flat, as in it doesnt form a dihedral. Will the flight be better with the dihedral or shall i leave it flat?

Did someone order for this from Indian Model Makers? If so pls call him again as he has misplaced your number. ( he called now and said so). Im not sure who has ordered as the only thing he told me was that the caller was from Gujarat (he was not sure).
Just trying to help. If found inappropriate, moderator kindly delete this post.
Thanks

hi Rajathv

can u pls give detilas from whr did u get this, i again planning to buy one!!!! and if possible will convert to brushless!!!!!

Use of any oil will soon spoil the rubber unless you take proper measure to wash it with soap and condition it with talcum powder etc.
Or you could use silicon oil I do not know where to get that but it does not affect rubber. One probable source is the cherry instant shoe polish (the one which has a sponge and contains silicon oil) 

Hi,
i want to buy some models, can you please tell me who to contact and his contact details. the mail is bouncing back.
Sandeep

Try this site for rubber powered model preparations. Especially, rubber band care, winding etc. - http://www.hbci.com/~bkuhl/rubber_energy.htm

Any idea if sprays for "car wheels" are available locally??

Try this -http://www.freeflight.org/index.htm - for some truly serious free flight. There must be many links like this one. At least gives a lot of detail on what is surely not just a "beginner" level in this hobby.

@ashJR : You can check the RC mega list for the details :)
@sandeepam: sorry i mistyped. The mail id is wrong as you pionted out :)

Plans for gliders http://www.freeflight.org/JLF/beginners_corner/index.htm

tg +1 :thumbsup:

For the info all the recent Rubber power fans / aficionados,  we used to employ a simple hand drill (used by carpenters) fitted with a curtain hook, to wind the rubber in the good old days.

I'm mighty surprised that Saikat isn't contributing to this thread. This is right up his street!

VC,
Do you remember flying the Bazzoka (the one kitted by Aurora long back)?

It's is just too breezy these days, waiting for a nice calm day when i can test this one properly. I plan to make a balsa glider next. Te simplest one possible as this will be my first build.
The wing just doesnt stay as a dihedral. Iv tried glue and doublesided tape. Any suggestions?

First glue the dihedral parts together with super glue (CA). Once it sets, use a Quickfix  or epoxy and let it set for 6 hrs. Just remember that both the port and starboard (left and right wing) dihedral angles are identical. Build a cardboard template, it will help you.

We used to cover the joint with a glued thin silk ribbon for added strength.

Oh dear! I know that the dihedral template and the silk ribbon won't make any sense to a 2010 newbie! Will try to load some photos or else call me tomorrow after 11am for details.

Cheers!

This is what I mean .

(I haven't used Paintbrush in years and it took me 30 minutes to create this. Rajath, my friend, you owe me a treat - BIG TIME!) ;D ;D ;D

Mistake on my part - read 30 degrees wing dihedral as 150 degrees. The smallest acute angle of the cardboard template is 30 degrees, therefore the wing dihedral angle = 150 degrees.

Some great links to free plans, building tips and basic info about chuck / catapult gliders

http://chuckglider.blogspot.com/search/label/free%20flight
http://chuckglider.blogspot.com/search/label/plans
http://chuckglider.blogspot.com/search/label/gliders

One of the best sites on the net.

Dihedral is ALWAYS with respect to the horizontal plane. So it IS 30 degrees!

Thanks a lot VC, Will put it to good use and include a treat if we get to meet :) Just one question. ? The one you showed is a double dihedral right.? I will make changes to suit my single dihdral. Use of silk ribbon makes sense now :)
And the model is of foam so no using quickfix right?

Waited for the glue to dry??? Can even tie a string between the wingtips to keep them at the di-hedral angle if you are complaining of sag. Long wings can sag at the tips if not reinforced properly at the joints.

I guess the string theory is easier. Will try the string and ribbon combo first.

Used a string to hold the wings and counter sagging. The flight is stable and smoother now compared to earlier. The distance for given number of turns has also increased. Thanks Tg :)
@VC: will use the cardboard template for balsa gliders which i plan to start in a day or two :)

It would be fun to see a flight video :)

Yes i will :).  Once the breeze dies that is :(. Love the way it flies (considering it consists of just a few simple parts) after geting the dihedral right.

Got myself a balsa chuck glider kit today (wood and plans actually). Will start with it soon. This is going to be my first build :D Absolutely no experience in sanding and stuff. Mr. Gupta explained for more than an hour as to how and what to do (with a demo) and thats all i have to start with. Exciting :)
Done with sanding a hardwood block to perfection - to be used to paste sandpaper for sanding balsa.

Hi,
     Its actually better if you can get a sheet of depron or EPP and then use that to make as many gliders (and different designs) you want. The balsa can be cut into spars for reinforcement. Can get free glider plans and make those.

Any indoor places in Bangalore (south) where these can be flown. Don't know if the indoor stadiums in Bangalore can be ever used with permission.

I wanted to start with balsa as it will serve as a bse during future scratch builds. It's just to learn and nothing else.

I don't think there is any. Will try it out at my friends appartment indoor badminton court, its pretty big.

another simple glider:
http://www.maxconrad.com/buildingscratch.htm

Started with balsa. Practiced on a small piece first.
The width was 4cm and the highest point of the airfoil is 1cm from the leading edge. Does it look fine or should any modifications be made?  :help:

The second pic shows what was given as part of the the kit.
NOTE: The ribbon is included as you said VC :)

After a long long time i managed to finish sanding the surfaces and making the profiles/contours. Need to make a template before glueing.
The plan says the wing leading edge sould be 5.5cm from the tip of the nose and the fuse length is given as 25cm.
The actual length is 30cm so iv decided to place the leading edge of the wing at a distance of 6.5cm from the tip.
This is my first attempt so im open to suggestions on any matter.  8-)

I was told to use "lacquer" to fill up the tiny holes. Dont know much about this. Can someone shed some light on this gray area? Will it affect the weight?
 
Attaching pics showing aerofoil and sanded sections.

Nice work on aerofoils there.
Go buy some quickfix, same as NC lacquer and you could buy a tube instead of say half a litre and save. Thin it with NC thinner if required.
You can also mix some talcum powder with the quickfix thin it and brush it on (make sure it is thin coats). After dryiing for atleast 24 hours you can wet sand with wet/dry sandpaper while using slightly soapy water. Two to three coats should give you smooth silky surface (Use progressively finer grade of sandpaper upto 600 if availble else 400 should also be fine) 

+1 Flyingboxcar - Nostalgia! (only old aeromodellers will understand the meaning of this post.)

Rajath, good work done! Listen to Flyingboxcar very carefully, he is guiding you PERFECTLY. Just do as he tells you. Lad, you are entering a magical world.

Flyingboxcar, you won't believe what I got today. I got an ORIGINAL Aurora Hunter Catapult Glider packed and sealed. This was my first ever model way back in 1974/75. I am probably going to sleep with the kit by my bedside. I have waited many years for this, Dad taught me the basics of aeromodelling with this particular model. As I said before, nostalgia...............

VC,

I would like to know how the aerofoil made to that shape? is it solid piece of Balsa wood sanded / shaped like that? what is "Lacquer"? is it same like clear varnish? is it available in hardware shops?

Rajath,
post your video

Regards,
Dileep

@ dileepbalan's :

To make aerofoil profile:
1. First mark the highest point or rather highest line of the aerofoil on the top face. Iv taken 25% of the wing width.
2.Then sand the bottom face flat.
3. Mark centre line on the bottom. This line will serve as refference while glueing to the fuselage. Do this now as it will difficult once the aerofoil is done.
4. Then sand from the high line moving towards leading and trailing edge of the to be wing. I usec corse sand paper (80).
5. Use finer sand paper to make the contour along the edges. I used 120. Carefull with the trailing edge of the wing in the final stages. The balsa becomes very thin in this part and may get damaged if force is applied. It happened to me, fixed it with the wood dust and glue :D

Dont know about the lacquer :)

Im dont have a video yet as im busy with coll work. All the work on the glider was done late night and i took my own time without any hurry. :)

@VC & flyingboxcar : Thanks guys :)
Iv got the quick fix, 400 sandpaper and thinner, will take some lacquer from a known person.
Should i glue the wings,fuse etc first and then use lacquer or vice versa? What is wet sanding and why is it done?
Flyingbox can you please explain with detail as i have no experienc whatsoever :)
Thanks.

Wet sanding gives you smoother surfaces, keeps dust down and takes away the heat of sanding.
For wet sanding you will need wet/dry sand/emery paper. The ones with black grit.
Take some water in a flat dish, mix a few drops of soap liquid or dissove some solid soap into the water, now when you start sanding, dip the wet/dry paper in this soap mixed water and start sanding, keep wetting and sanding till the desired surface condition is acheieved. BTW you could sand with the wet/dry as dry too but surface finish would be much less smoother. Also rememebr to wet sand only after you have sealed the wood grains with coats of dope/lacquer/quickfix/mixed with talcum else the wood will absorb water and swell and even distort.
You should glue all the parts and then coat and sand, if you do the other way, you you will have to leave the surfaces to be glued uncoated and that will become an issue with wet sanding. 

i also got two planes from there
1 is stick but can be converted to high winger or a  bi plane
1 is nor malll plane
 but much wings got crushed in the parcel :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

If you are bent upon lacquer, best is to buy Duco clear lacquer and thin it with NC thinner. The Duco stuff out of the tin would be of jelly consistency and needs to be thinned as per requirment. Nothing like if you could get some aircraft dope

Thanks a lot flyingbox. Din know anything about wet sanding :)

Well i visited IMM today. He gave me some lacquer and thinner. Not sure if its duco - it was in a baby food container :) but its clear. So now i have everything i need.
Since im new to this i guess its easier if i apply the dope, sand and then glue. Il stick to dry sanding for now and use wet sanding for my next model. Will try wet sanding on a sample to satisfy my curiosity :D

@akky: Is the biplane the yellow one?
You can make the wings using biofoam plates i guess.
I have three of the normal ones now : got two as compliment :D :D

Hello!
Also be advised that if you apply the lacquer to 'to be glued surface' your joints strength would be compromised. Wood to wood glueing is to be preferred   

Roger that :)
Finished sanding everything to fit perfectly and dusted them well with a paint brush.
10:10pm - Planned to apply lacquer but mom chased me into the balcony. :)
10:15pm - Planned to apply lacquer in balcony but was attacked by several annoying mosquitos so abandoned the attempt. :banghead: :banghead:

Will have to do it tomo.

tip of the day
please keep a mosquito repellent in your rc toolbox! :thumbsup: :giggle: :salute: :o

Haha :) In my case its necessary :)

Applied one coat of thin lacquer + talcum powder.
Then two coats of lacquer , the third coat being very thin. All surfaces are really smooth and shiny now! Feels like glass :) I used sandpaper 120 on first coat, 120 and 400 on second, waiting for third coat to dry - will use 400. All 3 were dry sanding without lacquer on places to be glued.

Made a silly newbe mistake- mixed the lacquer and thinner in a plastic container :D The bottom just fell off, had a nice laugh :D

Attaching pics of the plastic :D

Rajath, where do u stay dude?

I stay at maruthi nagar, near old airport.

Finally completed my first chuck glider. Used superglue to fix it up. Balancing and ballast is to be added.

Attaching pics of glueing the wing dihedral : equipment used for this task alone - laptop, duster, steel scale, box of clay, sharpener and glue :D the pics will show what i mean.

I would like to thank VC and flyingbox car for their support and also Mr.Gupta who answered the million phone calls i made to clarify doubts :D

Wondering if i should paint it. Dont want to add unnecessary weigth either.

Some more (im able to post only two per post for some reason) ..

Same as above (same as above) ..

Don't the wing joints need reinforcement? Also, there should be a hook at the bottom of the fuse near or before the LE of the wing. Would be interesting to see how much this weighs.

To reinforce the wing centre joint, use a piece of silk/satin ribbon and glue it on the top, from underneath you could use full chord gussets, while using the gussets make sure that you have correct angle and it abutts the wing on top and fuse side properly else the intended purpose would fail.
As for painting, use a lil bit of paint to mark the wing/fin tips alone in a bright fluroscent colour, this helps in locating the model in case it has landed far from you and specially in some tall grasses.
If you intend to launch it as catapult, hook would be required, you can make one out fo wire and thread it on the fuse, make sure to bend the end and insert it in wood to give some more strength to the attachement.
Now take some modelling clay, find a nice place and go test glide the model.
And happy chucking   

There is no joint in the centre. The wing has three parts only. The other two joints seem pretty strong (i used quickfix) so is the ribbon necessary?
Il use it without the catapult launch for now. :)
Got the clay, need some rainless days. It should be slightly nose heavy right?

For balancing take mseal and balance at 30% wing chord from leading edge

the actual CG is sure to be behind this point .

when you do test glides take sandpaper with you and keep sanding
off the mseal until you arrive at the perfect balance point.

Hope you don't mind me posting one of mine - gets about 35 sec in still air

Hey thanks for the info. Im using clay for now. Im free only at night so im not able to visit the field to test. But where there is a will there is a way. So i laid a couple of mattresses on the floor (so as to not disturb the ground floor residents) and tested. Was such a joy just to watch it gently glide :) :) :) :) I chucked it with a little force, it flew almost horizontally for like 10 feet then droped to the floor in the next 5 feet. I know it isnt all that great but was awesome to watch all that work take a gentle glide :)  8-)

Dropped into IMM again. He showed me how to balance,trim and chuck the chuck glider :D . Slowly progressed and managed a distance of 40 feet today while it was drizzling (will not get time on other days so din mind getting wet) . This little thing is a lot of fun :) Cant wait to try it on a nice hot :) :) This little thing can be so much fun. Determined to learn to fly it well.

Tried it at the field. Flew for about 80-100 feet as it was a little windy. The glide back to ground is a little too steep, how do i improve it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByyDnZzCQNM

PS: thats the sound of cranes putting together metro equipment in the background :)

First thing remove a little weight and try it out again if you see improvement in glide performance you are on right track, remove a bit more and try again till the time it starts stalling this is when you have removed excess weight, son now you need to add a bit back. You would need to find a good point where it does not stall but just borders on verge of stalling
Also note that nose weight would also depend on wind strength, higher the wind higher the weight, but you would be able to add only to a certain extent.
In summary you would need to find that sweet spot in terms of weight required   

I tried that already. Removing weight made it tail heavy and it stalls very easily. Will give it another try next time. Could it be that the wing is too far ahead? The plan read 5.5cm from fuse front edge for fuse length 25cm. The fuse in the kit was 30 cm so i placed the wing at 6.6cm from fuse edge. The leading edge of the wing is at 6.3cm from leading edge of fuse now (my mistake there). Will this have an effect?

Hi

check the balance (centre of gravity)
it should be around 35% wing chord i.e if the wing is
10 cm wide the plane should balance level at 3.5 cm
from leading edge.

once you get that straight - adjust the glide with
tweaking the elevator.

Rajath, its a good build and like VC said you bring back some memories... get this plane to fly well and learn the dynamics of free flight first... BTW.. I have a Dumas - Spirit of St Louis here with me in bahrain (my nephew started to build this had left it just at the start), actually i got it from towerhobbies but has been lying here for sometime. its a great small scale detailed model for rubber flight.. am coming to bangalore next week and if you want to give it shot in building this i will carry it with me for you... let me know???

Ever the kind hearted Sujju - absolute gem of RCIndia! :salute:

Awesome!  I would love to build that !!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)  :) :bow: Thanks a ton :)

Had been to th field to try my rubber model.

These are my comments:

The rubber became very smooth after using oil. Initially i tried coconut oil but it was less viscous and most of it was off the rubber in about 2 flights. Next tried castor oil (cooking type not engine oil). It was very thick and hence stayed on for  very long and made the release of stored energy very smooth (less vibrations). I recomend it on rubber motors.
On the downside a lot of mud gets stuck onto the model because of this.
Initially i could manage only 80-90 turns when the rubber was new. Later the rubber started to ease out allowing for longer flight times.


Damages:
The nose (plastic) kept poping out but this was not a problem as it happened only when the model hit ground.
It later proved to be an advantage as placing the rubber in the prop hook  became very easy.

The wing cracked near the root but was easily mended with cellotape. Everything is an easy fix :D

Improvements to be made :
The wing flexes a lot when in flight. Have to figure a way to give it some rigidity.
Need to get a rubber winding thingy. Winding 200 times every now and becomes boring after a while!

Here's a video. This was just a practice run. The flight time was 1.5 to 2 times of whats on this video. Could not take video as i was all alone and my hands were oily. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXW1NNHdA_k

Would love to try this next :) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHDHNXowzjU&NR=1

In my previous video you will notice that the wings bent upwards. So i used support struts (broomstick :D). Made the dihedral better by glueing the wing properly. It has improved bigtime - Here is a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3l2EhePR-w

The max flight time i got was about 1.75 times of whats shown in this video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was dark so the video i took was useless :( :(  I am very impressed - all this for RS.150 :D

hey when you come to see me, had you already got the package? :( you did not show me... :( :(

Yup i had. I will bring them to your place next time :) We can fly them there :)

Hey... for the weight problem and steep fall thing... you need to have small flaps to give it a drag and also if possible wings should have a little upward lift. I forgot to show you the rubber glider I was talking about.. it does have those flaps and upward wings. It lands like a pro... :)

Was sleepy so i forgot to mention :D To make up for it i shall give you one the model (pic shown). You can try and convert to rc. :) Will bring it next time.

Il have a look at your model and make modifications. It flies beautifully now though, And do you have extra rubber that i can use??

Here is what I am talking about... not sure if you can see from pics :)

(http://i53.tinypic.com/aw7y1z.jpg)

(http://i56.tinypic.com/anyosm.jpg)

Wow that is beautiful, looks like foam.. right? Yeah I have a big band but I dont use it, so if you like you may have it.
I am waiting for my ESC to arrive and its my fault that I ordered them as normal post instead of registered post... it is taking time like hell.

Still din get it :D will check it out next time :)

Yup il use the rubber :) it is foam and its quite light. :)

that is a kewl plane..... by the way can some one please tell where can i get the rubber??? dint know where to look for it... :headscratch: :headscratch:

Same here. Even im in need of rubber. Which model do you have?

i am making Queen Bee 16" version and making it rubber powered....

hi
can you send me the link from where you brought b'coz on ISRO site I didnt find it
thank

Sorry for the delayed reply.

No they do not have a website.
You can contact them over the phone and place your order :)

Hello Rip Van Winkle!  ;) Nice to see you awake after 498 days! :giggle:

There you go!

If you need the PDF plans, please email me @ vikramaditya27@gmail.com