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« on: August 03, 2018, 10:09:58 AM »
sim_tcr
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Hello,

Since my first 450 quad build went smoothly, I decided to do a smaller one. I am not building it for racing.
This is a complete banggood items build, except Tx/Rx and Lipo.
No FPV at this point, as I don't have a goggle.

I chose 210mm lisam ls-210 frame as that seems to be a very popular one. Base plate is 3mm, top plate is 2mm and side plates 1mm. comes with aluminium standoff and hex screws.
cc3d atom mini as FC (yes I know it is outdated and so many told me to go with F4). It was available for so cheap on banggood hence I thought I will give it a shot.

Racerstar BR2205 2300KV motors.
Racerstar 30A lite blheli ESC.
Matek PDB with 5V BEC.
Racerstar 5040 4 Blade props (those came free with motor).

For time being I being I am planning to use my Flysky FS-i4x/FS-A6 for Tx/Rx. At some point I plan to upgrade to basic 6 channel with some programming option model.

Still researching on what lipo to use. I want to go for 3s, because I don't want fly super fast. I have used only gensace and tattu lipos so far. Since there are no issues with them, I plan to go with same brand.
There is no smaller than 1800mah available in 3s in tattu or gensace.

I received all the components except ESCs and yet to build them. Any tips/suggestions are welcome.
The plan is, at some point replace FC to F4 with baro and use INAV with gps module to achieve altitude hold and RTH functions.
I shall keep the thread updated when build progress.
I am expecting quad to weigh 290gm without lipo.

Thanks.

IMG_8722.jpg
210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with GPS and omnibus f4 pro with INAV build
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 09:14:28 AM »
sim_tcr
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Got some time over the weekend.
The edges of carbon fiber frame were very sharp. I have sanded off the edges and painted it using fevicryl.
Tested the motors using some spare ESC.
Soldered the XT60 connector to PDB.
Played around with cc3d software. I was able to find a way to flash it with an older version of cleanflight. I guess cleanflight allow modes like altitude hold, RTH etc.
Ordered a BMP180 barometer. Hopefully it can be enabled using cleanflight. But I still don't have 6 channel Tx/Rx to access those features.
Hopefully tomorrow, ESCs will arrive.

IMG_8804.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 01:56:51 PM »
kn8alpha
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You might find that Cleanflight's navigation capabilities like althold, poshold, etc. may not be up to your expectation, especially on a quad this size.
iNav is a great alternative, I urge you to start with that instead. CC3D can be flashed with an old version of iNav which is still good for navigation features.

I started with Naze32 (F1) and iNav, eventually found that I needed F3 or better for a good tune and reliable RTH.
My build: http://www.rcindia.org/multirotors/build-210-fpv-quad-with-gps-baro/

I'm currently working on F4 based mini quads, almost all are running iNav.


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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 02:23:19 PM »
sim_tcr
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You might find that Cleanflight's navigation capabilities like althold, poshold, etc. may not be up to your expectation, especially on a quad this size.
iNav is a great alternative, I urge you to start with that instead. CC3D can be flashed with an old version of iNav which is still good for navigation features.

I started with Naze32 (F1) and iNav, eventually found that I needed F3 or better for a good tune and reliable RTH.
My build: http://www.rcindia.org/multirotors/build-210-fpv-quad-with-gps-baro/

I'm currently working on F4 based mini quads, almost all are running iNav.
Thank you @kn8alpha .

I was able to flash cleanflight (an older version 1.10.0 as cleanflight as they stopped supporting cc3d long back) directly from librepilot. For flashing INAV, I think I need a FTDI adapter.
I tried to connect a BMP180 to cc3d and cleanflight is not recognizing.

I am also planning to go with F3 or F4 pretty soon.
Sending you a PM in this regard.

by the way, ESCs are arrived. So have everything now to proceed with build.

3FD8B9A2-C347-4E03-935E-6DDD6495C11F.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 08:08:51 AM »
sim_tcr
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I completed the wiring and assembly of quad.
Went through LibrePilot flight control wizard.
Turned on tx, installed battery, armed by holding yaw to right.
Gave very slight throttle,  boom....it just flipped over rapidly. See video,



After researching, I think at the "Output Calibration" step, I shouldn't have spun the motor in full speed (slider bar full right) and clicked stop. It needed the slowest speed of motor.
I am yet to try this out.

Also in "Transmitter Setup Wizard" when I move the stick, in the given diagram controls are not moving.
But in a different screen controls are responding, but it does as if a lag in graphics.

IMG_8877.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 10:22:40 AM »
Mehul Anand
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You don't want to race but 4 blade prop, would be more power consuming..
What is the battery you are using??people suggest 1500mah 60-75C or else battery will get hot..

What did you order from BG and did you order all at once??
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 12:26:18 PM »
sim_tcr
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Build is progressing.
I was able to fix the flip issue. It was the "Output Calibration" step that I messed up. Once I re did the min throttle correctly, the instant rapid flip issue is gone.

Something bad happened too.
While testing, I found that AIL channel had to be reversed. I did this directly on Tx using physical reverse switch without knowing that I am reversing throttle switch!! Quad was armed it went crazy hit something. The tucked in Rx antenna came out and props cut the wire from root. Also lipo got some bumps.
Now Rx is without antenna I guess that will shorten the range.
Lipo I charged and used , no visible issues. Hope it will live.

Also learned the importance of a dedicated arming switch. If I had that I could have disarmed so quickly.

You don't want to race but 4 blade prop, would be more power consuming..
What is the battery you are using??people suggest 1500mah 60-75C or else battery will get hot..
I am using tattu 3300mah 35C 3s. Those blades came free. I will try 2 or 3 blades soon.

As per specs, my motor with 5045 props (not sure how many blades) and with 3s lipo draws 19.2A
So if I assume motor draws 25A at peak, 24x4=100A
My lipo is 3300mah 35C. 3.3x35=115.5A
So I guess lipo has enough amps to run the motor, am I missing something?

What did you order from BG and did you order all at once??
All parts except except Tx/Rx and Lipo are from BG. I bought them in 4 orders.

IMG_8896.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 01:06:40 PM »
Mehul Anand
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Great you focused on flight time...
I didn't check the video don't fly inside..
Cellings love quads they want to hug them quickly...
It's a lot dangerous too, need heart of a lion for that..


It may be useful never use props inside the house...

If you are afraid because there is no fail safe then get a better transmitter...
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 09:40:09 AM »
sim_tcr
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My maiden flight happened yesterday. It went very well.
Being flown only 450 quad, I find it very easier than 450.
It was not very snappy but felt very smooth movements.

With lipo quad weighs 613g.
I got flight time of 10.5 minutes (lvc at 11.4V) with throttle at 50% hovering back and forth.
Before the flight all temperatures at 84F and after the flight,
lipo - 95F
ESCs - 85F~
Motors - 95F to 100F

Yellow balls just for few days.

Next is to explore flight modes and fail safe in librepilot.

IMG_8892.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 06:08:10 PM »
sim_tcr
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Received new Tx/Rx FS-i6/FS-IA6B.
Tested Tx/Rx fail safe and it worked fine. I simply set the throttle to -99%, so motor simply stop incase of fail safe.
New Rx is slightly bigger to accommodate on the frame. I placed it sideways.

I attempted to Run Transmitter Wizard in LibrePilot again to set the 3 pos switch (SWC) for flight modes, and SWA for arming/disarming. There seems to be some issues with my cc3d Rx port, 6th channel (SWC) is not being recognized. I made sure that its not a Tx/RX issue. Tested with separate servo on all channels.
It seems like the last pin on cc3d is bad, whichever channel that wire goes, that channel wont get detected.

Nevertheless, I was able to perform my first field run today. I got again 10 minutes of flight time (11.4V LVC), It flown well. I am a beginner and not good with yaw+roll turns.



Since cc3d 6th channel not working, I wont be able to test flight modes. Again I dont know whats good flight mode I could test. No baro, so no altitude hold mode.
I was able to flash cleanflight, betaflight and INAV on the cc3d. All were very old versions. No where bmp180 baro got detected. So I never bothered to fly with them on the cc3d.

Next is replacing cc3d with a Omnibus F4 Pro with a Ublox GPS and run INAV on it. I hope all goes well.
Oh by the way as few advised, ordered 2 blade, Orange HD 5045 Carbon Fiber Nylon Props.

IMG_8959.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 12:52:13 AM »
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Build looks good. Looks like your hover takes 20A check if they motors are getting too warm after long flights.

I've pm'd on the FC and GPS.

Please be careful flying around children.. they are curious things having a tendency running into your flight path.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 10:37:04 AM »
sim_tcr
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Build looks good. Looks like your hover takes 20A check if they motors are getting too warm after long flights.
After the run,
lipo - 95F
ESCs - 85F~
Motors - 95F to 100F

Never felt anything too warm.
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 01:09:54 PM »
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Trying to repair the antenna from the old Rx which I broke earlier.
Any one know where the outer shield wire and inner wire should go? photos attached.

IMG_8987.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 01:44:05 PM »
taksh
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I have fixed broken antenna.
If you want to check outer wire or inner wire then just scratch the yellow part then you will know.

See attached photo. This is antenna wiring in turnigy 8ch receiver(rebranded flysky receiver)

IMG_8987.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with cc3d atom build log
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 03:05:50 PM »
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If you want to check outer wire or inner wire then just scratch the yellow part then you will know.
See attached photo. This is antenna wiring in turnigy 8ch receiver(rebranded flysky receiver)
Thanks @taksh
I soldered it back. Tested and it works fine.
Comparing the range with my new FS-IA6B. Did not see any real difference.
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2018, 07:43:10 AM »
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Time to replace cc3d with f4.
Received omnibus f4 pro and Ublox M8n gps with compass.
Ready to start working on INAV.
Need to rewire the gps according to f4 way.

By the way since I had issues with the the cc3d board, banggood refunded it.

58396A37-F8B2-4525-AE77-8F96FE227079.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with omnibus f4 pro v2 build log
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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2018, 10:52:10 AM »
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Since holiday, decided to get all the soldering done. It was my first time doing this kind of soldering. Was definitely not easy.

Started with header pins and xt60 pigtail on FC.
Had to de solder xt60 from pdb (old cc3d setup) as pdb leads should go to FC for current sensing.

Soldering Lead wires on PDB was the easiest. I used 14AWG silicon wires.

Soldering all the leads to FC was crazy.

Finally connected lipo, and everything powered up nicely.

Next - GPS and compass wiring.

xtt60_soldred.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with omnibus f4 pro v2 build log
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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2018, 11:26:37 AM »
Mehul Anand
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What is your soldering setup??
Glad to know that your build is going nice...
Did you face any problems??
Did you use smoke stopper???

Happy independence Day to everyone reading and don't fly today...
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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2018, 11:37:36 AM »
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What is your soldering setup??
Glad to know that your build is going nice...
Did you face any problems??
Did you use smoke stopper???

Happy independence Day to everyone reading and don't fly today...
I am using soldron 25W with pointed tip and soldron 50W with chisel type tip.
I did not use any smoke stopper.
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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2018, 08:09:30 PM »
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You sure are a daredevil...
Hope you check with multimeter...
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2018, 08:36:58 PM »
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Use a proper soldering iron else high temperature of iron can damage solder pads then last option is jumper. Jumper is not a permanent Solution.
Use adjustable solder soldering iron. Use high temperature sponge(made for soldering cleaning) and Make sure sponge is wet.
Don't push solder iron to melt solder wire. Don't inhale solder fumes.
If you feel surrounding(where u was doing soldering) air is not okay for use then leave that place.  I suffered from Nosebleeds when i was suffering also from cold but only once. After soldering, find fresh air place like park then do yoga. Lambi saans lo and fir chooroo.
If you can't get fresh air then AC is also a option. Always use good quality solder wire. (60/40 tin/ lead). Soldering ko mazak me maat lena kabhi.
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1b0lUnuuSBuNjSsplq6ze8pXak/Vastar-60W-Electric-Soldering-Irons-Temperature-Adjustable-Electric-Iron-Mini-Handle-Heat-Pencil-Soldering-Iron-110V.jpg_640x640.jpg
210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with GPS and omnibus f4 pro with INAV build
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2018, 09:41:54 PM »
rastsaurabh
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I second taksh on this "Soldering ko mazak me maat lena kabhi."

Simon your build is going great. And soldering is also good.

for getting good joint on PCB pad ....
1. twist the wires with hand so that the wire bristles are together
2. apply flux to wire and tin it
3. tin the pad
4. then heat the wire on pad to get a good  clean joint.
5. add more solder if required.

One query regarding the wires .... ( I dont know anything about these FCs)

Why are you taking thick wires to FC then to the PDB?

What i think

the XT60 Plug directly goes on the Mtek PDB. But you can have a pigtail if required for easiness.

if the FC needs the 12 volts you can give that from Mtek PDB with thin wires.

If FC needs to sense the battery voltage to produce alarm or OSD then also thin wires can be connected from Mtek PDB to FC.

i amy be totally wrong, but this is what makes sense to me as per electronic wiring. Please seek advice from experienced persons.

And if there is some reason to do so , please share.

regds
Saurabh




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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2018, 08:10:03 AM »
kn8alpha
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You really don't need to use a PDB with Omnibus F4pro as it already has a BEC and a current sensor on it. Here are some pictures of my setup, the XT60 connection goes to the input side of the current sensor shunt, and the esc leads on the other side. Damn difficult to solder though, but you can do it.

But, if you want to use a PDB that lacks a current sensor, solder the XT60+ to the BAT+ on omnibus fc, and a wire from MOT_VCC back to the PDB VCC input, both wires need to be thick as they would be carrying your whole battery current. ESC + and - to the PDB corners, then a ground wire (needn't be thick) from the PDB to FC. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/d3fd910c403a8824e96a138c706d4011.jpg
210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with GPS and omnibus f4 pro with INAV build
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/ddd912fcd8ccc1f6d9c44da3bf06b8ae.jpg
210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with GPS and omnibus f4 pro with INAV build
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« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2018, 12:36:49 AM »
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Thank you @taksh and @rastsaurabh for the soldering tips.
I will definitely take them in to consideration.

Made a smoke stopper using 12V 2 filament automotive bulb to use with remainder of build.

@kn8alpha, This is exactly I had wired earlier but using a PDB. After reading little about about omnibus f4 pro v2, I decided to redo this. Now I am planning to power the FC using PDB's 5v BEC as attached diagram using 20AWG. I am not bothered about current sensor or voltage display.


IMG_9202.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with omnibus f4 pro v2 build log
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2018, 06:04:26 PM »
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Flashed FC with INAV. (In Win 10 Home edition, I had to install ImpulseRC_Driver_Fixer.exe driver to get DFU mode detected)

Completed the GPS and compass re-wiring. (to get my compass working, I had to do reduce the i2c port speed "set i2c_speed = 200KHZ" in INAV). I Used UART6(gps) and UART3(compass). The connector is "Mini Micro JST 1.0mm SH 6-Pin". I did not have this. So I used cc3d 8 wire receiver cable, which is 100 INR. I had to cut 2 extra wires from the end to fit it on the port.
You could use UART1 for GPS and UART6 for compass, but I wanted UART1 for i-bus. So I combined both GPS and compass on same physical port.

Completed i-bus setup using FS-iA6B by connecting to UART1.

Yet to explore flight modes in detail.
For now tested ANGLE mode and Altitude Hold, both worked ok. For alt. hold, there is a deviance of 30 to 50cm.

When I  position my GPS arrow at 12 O' clock, in INAV its showing 3 O' clock position.
So I set the GPS to 3 O' clock position, and the screen shows it right. Any thoughts?


Can multiple flight modes overlap each other over a  single 3 position switch? for eg, I want ANGLE mode always, so the slider is set left to right. And I want pos hold on second position of switch, so I made the slider in mid position. Is that correct way to set?

Next - gps position hold, RTH, failsafe (RTH)
Attached the wiring diagram and INAV configuration screenshots.

Omnibus-F4-Pro-v2-wiring.jpg
Re: 210 (lisam ls-210) mini Quadcopter with omnibus f4 pro v2 build log
* Omnibus-F4-Pro-v2-wiring.jpg (55.7 KB, 800x550 - viewed 82 times.)
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 10:10:10 PM by sim_tcr » Logged
 

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