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« on: March 27, 2014, 10:17:37 PM »
ratuldas6
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Hi everyone,
I had a look around this website and found that almost everybody seems to have an idea of what they are doing, before asking any questions. My case is may seem very peculiar.  Help Me

I did some research and found out that you have to pick a motor first, then you have to pick propellers which work the best with the motors. I decided that I would keep the motor-to-motor distance to 18 inches. I did some more research about the payloads and parts of the quadcopter and estimated the total weight of the setup to be around 1kg. I want to build this quadcopter only for the fun of it, hence 30 min of flight time will be enough. My budget is 9000 INR.

Now, my problem is, which motors can I pick which will give me the required 2400g of thrust to overcome gravity (I need the 400g of thrust for backup). I can figure out the required props and battery. But, if you have any suggestions for them, I would appreciate it.  Hats Off

 
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 10:35:54 PM »
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i think  must keep your budget a bit higher,9k is a very tight budget
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 10:42:00 PM »
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You need to be more elaborate, such as do you already possess a radio or for that matter anything that can be used for a quad?

-You can start with tricopter, will reduce some expense, and you can later upgrade at any point of time.
-10/15mins is the max flight time that multirotors usually have, 30 mins is a wee bit more.
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 10:49:09 PM »
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Hello ratuldas6
Welcome to the forum.
So, you are from Varanasi. I think you are the first person from varanasi here. I live in Allahabad.
So, you are planning to make a Quadcopter. 30 mins. flight is really a long flight time and in 9000 it is difficult. Also,  as I believe you are a beginner therefore, in my opinion you should first of all spend some time on building your flying skills. Try learning flying on a simulator. Try to arrange it or order one for you.  At IIT-BHU you would get some help in local, since, there are people from this field. After learning flying you could go for building something of your own. If 9000 is your budget go for an RTF kit available on different stores. Make something. Learn some flying on it and then make something of your own.

 Hats Off
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2014, 09:35:56 AM »
ratuldas6
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i think  must keep your budget a bit higher,9k is a very tight budget

This question is very stupid but could you please tell me that how much should I increase my budget to make it more feasible?

You need to be more elaborate, such as do you already possess a radio or for that matter anything that can be used for a quad?

-You can start with tricopter, will reduce some expense, and you can later upgrade at any point of time.
-10/15mins is the max flight time that multirotors usually have, 30 mins is a wee bit more.

I currently don't have any equipment except the materials for making a frame.

I heard that there are problems regarding the yaw of tricopters and it is trickier to program than a quadcopter, so I would prefer a quadcopter to a tricopter.

Increasing the battery capacity would obviously help me.


Hello ratuldas6
Welcome to the forum.
So, you are from Varanasi. I think you are the first person from varanasi here. I live in Allahabad.
So, you are planning to make a Quadcopter. 30 mins. flight is really a long flight time and in 9000 it is difficult. Also,  as I believe you are a beginner therefore, in my opinion you should first of all spend some time on building your flying skills. Try learning flying on a simulator. Try to arrange it or order one for you.  At IIT-BHU you would get some help in local, since, there are people from this field. After learning flying you could go for building something of your own. If 9000 is your budget go for an RTF kit available on different stores. Make something. Learn some flying on it and then make something of your own.

 Hats Off

Could you recommend a simulator for a quadcopter that I can try. I am familiar with the controls, but I have never actually flown a quadcopter. The only RC toy I have ever flown was a Dragonfly helicopter.

And yes, I live about 500 meters from the BHU Campus. I thought the same as you. But I am really surprised that no one from Varanasi is interested in quadcopters, or for that matter, any RC vehicles.. My father had a transfer order from Bhopal, MP to Varanasi about 6 months ago. Is someone from Bhopal active here?

I could, of course, increase my budget if necessary. I am not very interested in buying a RTF kit. They are quite similar to RC toys.
I am looking for a challenge.
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 02:23:17 PM »
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If you don't have anything, then 9k budget wont suffice, and how much you need to increase budget depends on the radio you want to invest in. A programmable 6ch radio is good enough but a module based 9ch radio such as turnigy 9X or 9XR or Flysky th9x are ideal radios with options to upgrade further as you move ahead in the hobby.

If you increase the battery capacity again you need to increase your budget. Programming quad or tri is trickier depending on the FC you intend to use and skills and attitude you posses. Setting up a kk2,2.1 or 2.1.5 is easier than multiwii or ardupilot etc. Then there is Naza which is easier to setup but costs a lot.

Another factor that comes into play is from where are you going to source items, locally or internationally. Locally, items are costlier but free from hassle of duty,custom troubles etc, also out of stock at times. If internationally items are cheaper but shipping as well custom duty comes into play.

I will give you a rough idea, 15 to 20k is needed for a quad as per your requirements. You can get it done below 15k, but then you would be getting items that are not very efficient quality-wise. But in your case as you haven't even flown a plane, I am with Utkarsh, go with an rtf or as you said rc toys, they have similar flight characteristics as any other quad, and a good way to start instead of going for a build the first time itself. They can also take some amount of beating and its cheap! Its better than a simulator too IMO. And trust me flying a quad itself is challenging.If you have someone with experience to help/support you then its a different story.

Just an example of what you can get as an rtf

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__27838__Walkera_QR_Ladybird_V2_Ultra_Micro_Quadcopter_RTF_Mode_2_.html

http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/1865-mini-beetle-quadcopter-rtf.aspx

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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 03:51:44 PM »
utkarshg13
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 I agree with sidewinder.
So, regarding simulator, I myself use Real flight 4.5 and phoenix RC. Phoenix Rc does have a Quadcopter. Don't know about realflight. It does not runs fluently on my system Wink Wink. Now, if you want to order one simulator for you then follow the link:
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/12-in-1-new-simulator/
http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/810-avionic-integrated-simulator.aspx
I'm not sure about stock of quadkopters. It is in red but showing few pieces left.

 Hats Off
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 04:15:41 PM »
ratuldas6
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I would like
If you don't have anything, then 9k budget wont suffice, and how much you need to increase budget depends on the radio you want to invest in. A programmable 6ch radio is good enough but a module based 9ch radio such as turnigy 9X or 9XR or Flysky th9x are ideal radios with options to upgrade further as you move ahead in the hobby.

If you increase the battery capacity again you need to increase your budget. Programming quad or tri is trickier depending on the FC you intend to use and skills and attitude you posses. Setting up a kk2,2.1 or 2.1.5 is easier than multiwii or ardupilot etc. Then there is Naza which is easier to setup but costs a lot.

Another factor that comes into play is from where are you going to source items, locally or internationally. Locally, items are costlier but free from hassle of duty,custom troubles etc, also out of stock at times. If internationally items are cheaper but shipping as well custom duty comes into play.

I will give you a rough idea, 15 to 20k is needed for a quad as per your requirements. You can get it done below 15k, but then you would be getting items that are not very efficient quality-wise. But in your case as you haven't even flown a plane, I am with Utkarsh, go with an rtf or as you said rc toys, they have similar flight characteristics as any other quad, and a good way to start instead of going for a build the first time itself. They can also take some amount of beating and its cheap! Its better than a simulator too IMO. And trust me flying a quad itself is challenging.If you have someone with experience to help/support you then its a different story.

Just an example of what you can get as an rtf

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__27838__Walkera_QR_Ladybird_V2_Ultra_Micro_Quadcopter_RTF_Mode_2_.html

http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/1865-mini-beetle-quadcopter-rtf.aspx



I am sharing the budget with a friend of mine. So, now the actual budget is about 16k or so.
I need a bit more information about channels in radios. I will probably research it in an hour or so. But I think that 9ch is better, as more features can be programmed if required ,and I am planning to add a barometer and a GoPro camera for live streaming. Will have to look for a Turnigy now.

I want to set up a KK2.0 on the quadcopter. I heard good reviews about this FC. Do they come with a guide for dummies?

Taking into account the average knowledge of customs officers    Undecided , I have a huge likelihood of getting into trouble. Is there still any way to prevent such hassles, if at all possible?

I have a friend who is willing to help me a bit in programming the FC. For other parts, I need to get some help from BHU. As a matter of fact, the BHU Campus is about 600 meters from where I am typing this post (my room).

I agree with sidewinder.
So, regarding simulator, I myself use Real flight 4.5 and phoenix RC. Phoenix Rc does have a Quadcopter. Don't know about realflight. It does not runs fluently on my system Wink Wink. Now, if you want to order one simulator for you then follow the link:
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/12-in-1-new-simulator/
http://www.rcbazaar.com/products/810-avionic-integrated-simulator.aspx
I'm not sure about stock of quadkopters. It is in red but showing few pieces left.

 Hats Off


Thank you for your input. I will download Real Flight after I upgrade my GPU.  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 09:38:43 PM »
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As a matter of fact, these days ordering things from international stores is very time taking. I believe almost every one must have faced custom issues Bang Head. Its better to order things from Indian stores. Although, you'll have to pay a little more but you'll get your things on time.
Still, yes you can prefer international stores since, cost is also an important parameter.
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 10:36:59 PM »
ratuldas6
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Re:

Any good sites for ordering the quadcopter parts?
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 10:51:58 PM »
utkarshg13
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Indian or international?
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 10:56:43 PM »
ratuldas6
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Re:

Indian, as you said that there are no problems with the customs.
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2014, 12:02:41 AM »
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Maximum items are out of stock on indian stores. Still, you can go through these links:
www.rcbazaar.com
www.quadkopters.com
www.rcdhamaka.com
www.rcelectro.com
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2014, 08:46:09 AM »
ratuldas6
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I forgot to ask one thing, how can I generate 2.4kg of thrust to lift a 1kg quadcopter? Need an answer. I will use 9x5 propellers :
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11332__9x5_Propellers_Standard_and_Counter_Rotating_6pc_.html

And also, which battery is to be used here to get 15-20 minutes of flight time?
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2014, 11:34:55 AM »
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Cf 2822 with an 10" prop is enough I guess the motors are also just 600 inr on rcdhamaka
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2014, 06:50:55 PM »
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Cf 2822 with an 10" prop is enough I guess the motors are also just 600 inr on rcdhamaka

This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks a lot Smiley . I would need a little more details though.

Were you talking about this motor? I looked it up rcdhamaka.
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=100_93&products_id=391

What is the pitch of the propeller that you are referring to (10inch dia.)? Could you please write the links?

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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2014, 11:35:32 PM »
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http://www.quadkopters.com/product/sf-propeller-104-5-sf104-5-orange/

http://www.quadkopters.com/product/sf-propeller-104-5-sf104-5-green/
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2014, 11:38:03 PM »
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Also, you should use different colored front and rear propellers. This is because quadcopters have a very symmetrical design and it's very easy to lose orientation. The different colors help you judge which side is front.
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« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2014, 01:09:10 AM »
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If your power set up is final then now you should think about frame. For that either go for an 450mm airframe that is available on all stores under 1.5K or you can build one for yourself. You can use wooden strips of 10-15mm cross-section for making arms or best according to me is aluminium square cross section tube which comes in 12mm size. I'd myself used that in my quadcopter. For centre plate go for glass fibre plate or try some other hard material that weighs less and has some strength in it.
Also, you should follow maahinberi's advice about the props. Use different colour props, for eg: one pair(CW, CCW) in black and other pair any other colour. Also, whenever place an order for props please do order at least two pairs extra Giggle. I'm attaching pics of both my frames for reference.
 Hats Off

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« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2014, 01:12:59 AM »
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As in my second pic, aluminium frame, you can put coloured tapes as well or paint your arms(I too have to do that) for keeping it more clear while flying. Just don't use same colour on all four arms Giggle Giggle otherwise it would be useless. Same thing as in props, two different colours to be used again.
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2014, 07:59:52 AM »
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http://www.quadkopters.com/product/sf-propeller-104-5-sf104-5-orange/

http://www.quadkopters.com/product/sf-propeller-104-5-sf104-5-green/

Also, you should use different colored front and rear propellers. This is because quadcopters have a very symmetrical design and it's very easy to lose orientation. The different colors help you judge which side is front.




That issue had passed through my mind, but my solution was to put something that would help me to recognize that which side was the front. I agree that the propellers are a good idea.

The props you mentioned in your post, do they sell 2 pairs of a colour (2CW, 2CCW) in each set? Or do they sell only one pair with each purchase? And how is the reliability of these props?

If your power set up is final then now you should think about frame. For that either go for an 450mm airframe that is available on all stores under 1.5K or you can build one for yourself. You can use wooden strips of 10-15mm cross-section for making arms or best according to me is aluminium square cross section tube which comes in 12mm size. I'd myself used that in my quadcopter. For centre plate go for glass fibre plate or try some other hard material that weighs less and has some strength in it.
Also, you should follow maahinberi's advice about the props. Use different colour props, for eg: one pair(CW, CCW) in black and other pair any other colour. Also, whenever place an order for props please do order at least two pairs extra Giggle. I'm attaching pics of both my frames for reference.
 Hats Off

As in my second pic, aluminium frame, you can put coloured tapes as well or paint your arms(I too have to do that) for keeping it more clear while flying. Just don't use same colour on all four arms Giggle Giggle otherwise it would be useless. Same thing as in props, two different colours to be used again.

 

I would prefer the aluminum frame as it has a lesser chance of breaking than the other materials. Also, I will colour the arms same as the propellers if possible.

What would be the total weight of the setup now (approx.)?
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2014, 12:09:15 PM »
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Hi Ratul,
I am using the same props on this quad. The quad is built using 1cmx1cm cross section wooden beams. The beams have been slotted into each other at the center and glued with epoxy. The center plate is also made using plywood. The motor to motor distance is about 400mm and the diagonal distance from one motor to the opposite motor is approximately 550mm.
It has the following motors:
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/221213-1000kv-brushless-outrunner-motor-with-mount/

And with a 3S 2200mah battery (link follows), It gives me 6-8 minutes of flight time.
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8932__Turnigy_2200mAh_3S_20C_Lipo_Pack.html

The motors have been mounted using zipties and this goes a long way to save your motors. After a crash, the motor shaft does not get bent or break off, only the zipties break. Use a new set of zipties and you're back flying.

While trying to flip this, quad, it crashed sideways (Directly on two arms) from about 60 feet in the air and only the zipties and props broke. Nothing happened to the frame or the motors.

The landing gear is made out of thermocole and plastic tubes.  Giggle

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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2014, 12:10:08 PM »
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They sell one pair, i.e. One CW and one CCW
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2014, 07:12:08 PM »
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Use a 3000 mah and 30c lipo atleast as you need to power the motors which take 15.5 amps and you need to power the FC also.
FC
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/mwc-lite/
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/kkmulticopter-v5-5-controller-blackboard/
Charger
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/b3ac-charger/
ESC
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=100_95&products_id=1113 * 4
Motor
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=100_93&products_id=391 * 4
Battery
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/qk-lipo-3300mah-11-1v-25c50c/

So the total without the radio for all the electronics comes to around 8500 take another 1000 for props, building materials, connectors, etc.
So total without radio 9500
Weight of battery, motor, FC and ESC comes to something around 550 add another 500 grams for the other miscellaneous stuff So weight is something around 1kg.
Best of luck for your project.
BTW are you interested in a micro quad
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2014, 07:41:38 PM »
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I would actually suggest KK2.0 or KK2.1 for a beginner. It is very stable and very easy to set up.
Link:
http://www.quadkopters.com/product/kk2-1-multi-rotor-lcd-flight-control-board-with-6050mpu-and-atmel-644pa/
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vksingh 21 11473 Last post August 20, 2010, 02:35:52 AM
by runik4
FOR SALE : Brushless motors , EDF's , Servos, Propellers ,FS Receiver,USB cable
For Sale
amansachdeva22 24 7796 Last post September 30, 2012, 12:29:19 PM
by bhavesh
Few motors,ESC's and propellers for sale
For Sale
ketan rs 15 5511 Last post February 13, 2014, 08:29:18 AM
by abheekg
Choosing a landing gear for quadcopter.
Multirotors
RD1452002 1 2438 Last post May 17, 2014, 02:33:51 PM
by Shyam Hembram
Need help in choosing right motors for hexa configuration!
Multirotors
Inv3nt0r 0 646 Last post January 08, 2019, 05:20:01 PM
by Inv3nt0r