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[yashodhanp]

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So I finally decided to make my own Power Distribution Board on a budget for multirotors.  Completed the design and then made a toner transfer sheet and did the transfer on copper. Now will etch tomorrow and report back.

Size: 50 x 50mm

Costed me around Rs.40-50

Suggestions Welcome

Design

DIY Budget Power Distribution Board

Toner Transfer Complete

DIY Budget Power Distribution Board

Regards

[kiran rc]

Nice DIY

[yashodhanp]

Thank You.

I am going to use Hydrogen Peroxide + Vinegar + Salt to etch my boards

[yashodhanp]

UPDATE:

Etching in Process :

DIY Budget Power Distribution Board

Etching Complete and Removed Toner:

DIY Budget Power Distribution Board

Comments and Suggestions will be appreciated

Regards

[shreeyak]

Well, for an even more cheap and easy PDB, one can get a double side pcb, cut out a small square, solder all +connections to one side and all ground connections to d other 

[sooraj.palakkad]

@shreeyak, the pdb ideas you shared is good

I used copper clad as bottom plate with integrated pdb in my build.

[miginstruments]

Nice build and finish. I had my own PCBs built not a PDB but for some other purpose. I used Ferrous Chloride for itching. Your combination of H2O2+vinegar+salt is new to me. So please tell me how is the performance of your combination. Plus I used Laser printed circuit and then iron it for a long time to print it on to the copper clad. you know its a long and troublesome job. And once we remove the paper we are not sure about the print. So I am looking for some alternatives. The thing is I cannot go for hand printing it through a permanent marker as my circuits are pretty complex. Please help me out if you have some better and easy idea. Thanks in Advance.

[yashodhanp]

@Shreeyak... yes.. true, but i wanted something that was simpler and a little bit more refined:P

[yashodhanp]

@migininstruments... The Vinegar + H2O2 + Salt Process is a lot cleaner the FeCl3.

I have Listed out the Pros and Cons Below:

Pros:
1. Materials are extremely Easy and Cheap to come by. ( Though i have heard commercial FeCl3 is even Cheaper per kilogram)
2. It is a lot less Hazardous (I could put bare my hands into the solution.)
3. Since the solution is Clear it is very easy to monitor the progress
4. Easy to Dispose off.;
5. Doesn't Stain clothing/Marble etc.
6. Easy to predict times once you get the hang of it.

Cons:
1. Solution is not Re-usable
2. The Chemical Cocktail must be just right to get the reaction going.
3. One must keep rubbing the board to remove the scum.
4. Solution May need to be changed once.
5. Reaction can be very weirdly unpredictable.

On average my etching times varied between 1 Hour and 2 Hours depending on the amount of copper to be removed.

I used the following cocktail:
1:1 Household Vinegar and 6% Hydrogen Peroxide (aka 20 vol H2O2)
Salt to Taste (Till the reaction fizzes by itself)

Hope This Helps.

Regards
Yashodhan Pasari 

[shreeyak]

Refined, truly. You can also add round marks indicating places to solder and a clear indication of -,+ and a hole in the middle.

But simplest is the double sided pcb piece

[miginstruments]

All the Cons of FeCl2 comes as a part of package. I had to use Gloves, Plastic container for itching, it reacts very quickly with metals, It also reacts quickly to atmosphere, of course my bathroom tiles ve lost their original color. It is also a bit difficult to get it, though I had some contacts that made me to get it easily, but even then the seller asked me what am I going to do with it. But the Itching time is not so long and is not even unpredictable. It ll take around 15-20 Mins, but its really a dirty process. I also asked about alternatives of Imprinting Circuits onto Copper Clad. Something that ll be very helpful for me. Thanks.

[sooraj.palakkad]

Ferric chloride is harder to get
I can get it in electronic shop for 25Rs per 75Gms !!!

For transferring circuits to clad board cleanly you can opt UV transfer.

[miginstruments]

Well in Karnataka almost all kind of Chemicals are difficult to buy.

[yashodhanp]

H2o2 can be purchased from the medical store.

I use kodak high gloss photo paper and a canon laser printer to print it.. The paper comes off extremely extremely cleanly without the common rubbig and hours of soaking problem. Mine takes a few seconds.

[miginstruments]

So you too used the ironing process to imprint. And the photo paper is it like normal paper or a thick one.

[yashodhanp]

i use 180gsm photo paper (pretty thick)

[sooraj.palakkad]

I use OHP sheets.

[miginstruments]

Okay, Thanks Guys for all your help. I am about to build a PCB will keep the things in mind. Thanks Again.

[shreeyak]

There is one more chemical mix used to etch pcb. A mix of H2O2 and HCl acid I think. Google it. It is extremely corrosive, but can be reused endlessly and is very quick. Green in colour.

What is OHP paper? That blue colour sheet?

[sooraj.palakkad]

No OHP paper is plastic - and is almost Heat resistant

[miginstruments]

@sooraj.palakkad What is UV Transfer can you send me some links. Thanks.

[shreeyak]

@sooraj, what process do you use for uv etching? What chemicals needed for making the photosensitive layer? How costly is it?

[yashodhanp]

We need photo resist film for the UV process. Its not usually available locally. After applying the film, we must use an ohp film (laser printed) and shine a powerful UV light or even sun light.

Then it must be developed in sodium carbonate or sodium hydroxide. Then etch as normal.

Its expense depends more on how cheap one can get the film here.

By the way the HCl method is outright dangerous for etching. Will corrode literally everything. Might as well use ammonium persulphate.

Regards

[shreeyak]

Yes d HCl soln is extremely corrosive and will eat through any metal including nails.  Have to be careful but is cheap and endlessly reusable.
Where can I get the persulphate or how to make some on my own?

[yashodhanp]

You can get it from a chemical market.. But you might be shown the door due to its toxic nature. You cannot synthesise  it.

By the way, you will still need to add more acid and peroxide every once in a while and even oxygenate it to get back the copper chloride(the green liquid)

[AnjanBabu]

It is also a bit difficult to get it, though I had some contacts that made me to get it easily, but even then the seller asked me what am I going to do with it.

You can easily get the Ferric Chloride from SP road, dealers like NSK Electronics, Shree Lakshmi Electronics and OM Technologies stock them for students. Besides, it's a one time buy, you don't really need to change the solution in years, the solution I use is about 3 years old now. It's of course a bit messy.

[AnjanBabu]

yashodhanp, that's some nice toner transfer job you have there, I've been trying to etch a PCB for a couple of days now and the toner just doesn't stick on to the copper very well, I'm not able to figure out why.

Could you please list down your process flow?
 

[yashodhanp]

@Anjan...

The process I use is as follows:

1. Cut out the copper board to size.
2. Use a scotch brite scrub pad and scuff the surface lightly to a shine.
3. Use IPA to remove any residual oils etc.
4. Set the iron to the highest possible temp. And then preheat the board for 45 seconds.
5. Apply the paper to be transferred VERY CAREFULLY (I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH,  the preheated board will nearly instantly bond with the paper.
6. Press the iron down firm and hard for around 2 minutes.
7. Use the front pointed tip of the iron to apply more pressure and use just the tip to rub the entire paper hard. (Very Important. Else some lines may just not transfer)
8. Press again for 2-3 minutes while constantly moving the iron over the surface.
9. Shock it in cold water. (Hot water has NEVER worked for me. Though others swear by it.)
10. Peel of the paper. (Mine just peels off in a single shot in a matter of seconds. But it may vary from paper to paper)
11. DONE!..

Feel free to ask questions.

PS. Print it in as high a toner density as possible.
I will be experimenting with both OHP and WAX Paper in a few days time.

[AnjanBabu]

I do exactly that, the first few PCB that I etched a while ago turned out beautifully with 0.5mm traces, I just cant seem to get the sort of toner transfer right now. It's probably the toner quality, I can see the density is quite good.

I've tried the OHP sheet and wax/photo papers, normal paper seems to be the best bet, since, when you rip it off the copper, it leaved a thin layer of paper behind, OHP and photo papers tend to rip off the toner when you peel it off.
Update your experiments with it.

[shreeyak]

Yes, a small amount occasionally.

[miginstruments]

@Anjan Babu. Thanks sir for the advice. NSK is a close friend of mine but I never asked for FeCl2, Although I got it from some where else last year. As you said this chemical is pretty messy its true. Always ve to make my hands and the floor dirty. I did some PCB's last year, the beginning was a bit troublesome. But as I moved on I started to understand what to do in order to have a good PCB. The most painstaking job was to transfer toner onto copper clad. Well I should tell you there are two types of Copper clad available @ NSK go for the other one its a bit on the higher cost, not much around 10-15 bucks more, but its rather easy to transfer the toner onto it. I ve never tried a thicker paper. now I ll try with a Photo Paper. I even did PCB for 8051 with I2C, though it did not worked but it was a worth experiment. Other part to take care of is to Drill the PCB. While drilling we may lose some of the tracks particularly the Dots. I ll give another try in some days, ll update the process. Since Toner transfer is a bit tricky job, I was looking for some other alternatives. but I think this is the most easiest process to DIY. If you come across another process please do inform. Regards.

[AnjanBabu]

miginstruments, I never bought copper clads from NSK, I usually look for fiberglass boards, the Phenolic ones are a bit weak. I'll look for some good quality copper boards.

I had the problem of small pads lifting off while drilling too, I drill those tiny holes right after toner transfer and then etch the PCB, turns out fine.

I'm planning to order some photosensitive dry film for UV exposure and thermal transfer paper for toner from AliExpress. Looks pretty cheap.

[miginstruments]

Anjan Sir, Well thats a pretty good technique. I ll try in the same way. I dont know about the fiber boards, I ll ve a look at it over google. My 8051 board was destroyed coz of the Pads, while drilling. Please update me once you get the photosensitive film and get your hands on it. BTW even I am into Embedded Systems, but as of now I am only using 8051. Was thinking to try hands on Ardiuno, but dont know from where to start. Please Guide me in this regard. 

[sooraj.palakkad]

Starting out in Arduino is far easier than using 8051 or PIC microcontrollers.
As you are ok with PCB design and stuff, get a Atmega 328, An USB to UART Break out, some passive components , Berg strips - you can make your own Arduino board with this. Or you can get any cheap clones .
Download the latest Arduino IDE..
Arduino Language almost self learn-able..

[miginstruments]

@Sooraj I ve almost all the things you ve mentioned except Arduino. Also there are a lot of Ardiuno boards are available in the market. Which one you suggest for me to begin with. Though I ve also started working on LPC 2148 but, Ardiuno is something I just ignored previously. But now I am realizing that I shld ve tried it as well. Thanks n Regards.

[sooraj.palakkad]

For starting get a Arduino UNO board or any of its clone.
Or you can make your own arduino UNO board with a atmega328 .

[sahilkit]

if you are buy a arduino uno clone board get the blue color once, as rest of the clone clones will have usb driver/OS problems and FT232 clone chips can get bricked easily if wrong drive is used (due to recent win update with FT232 driver/bricking).

Below is a similar one i have, which worked flawless right from the start.

http://www.inkocean.in/uno-r3-development-board-compatible-with-arduino?gclid=CI7fr4D4gcMCFRUnjgodUSIA1g
 
Sahil

[miginstruments]

Thanks Sooraj n Thanks Sahil. Sahil I went through the link you ve posted. ll order it soon. The next step is to understand the Port configuration of it. Also does it have an Inbuilt ADC.

[sahilkit]

Yes 6 adc channels and i think 10bit resolution, please see below link

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardUno

Sahil

[miginstruments]

@Sahil. Oh thats nice. I should try my hands as soon as possible onto this. Thanks for all your help Guys.

[subhashjk0508]

hey!! i guess i have an arduino uno R3 geniune with all the stickers and stuff!! i'am not using it anyway, you can have it if you want and i too have a arduino mega clone!!

regards,
JK

[miginstruments]

@Subhash. Well Subhash I ll be delighted to have. But which one is that, I mean I dont know much about Uno. Sahil has mentioned a particular model above. Is it the same one?

[sooraj.palakkad]

A UNO is best for beginners

[subhashjk0508]

pics!! ya the same model!!

[subhashjk0508]

back!!

[sahilkit]

i think what subhash has posted looks like a original unit

[subhashjk0508]

i would suggest go with the arduino mega because im sure your going to outgrow the uno, there are really crazy stuff you could do with the arduino!!

http://playground.arduino.cc/Projects/Ideas

you might even build a computer from them!! like this:-

http://amigojapan.github.io/Arduino-Retro-Computer-TV/

regards,
JK

[sooraj.palakkad]

YEah, what subhash has posted is an OEM Arduino UNO R3

[subhashjk0508]

and if you are realy interested in arduino, i have got really good stuuf for it like the nokia 5110 lcd display , you could display graphics etc... i got few really fun sensors too and dont forget to look at instructables.com for some kickass projects!! and if your from bangalore you could just drop by and pick the stuff yourself!!

had to leave the arduino behind when i came into this hobby!!no time actually!!

@yashodhanp - sorry for hijacking your thread!!

regards,
JK

[AnjanBabu]

subhashjk0508, how much for the Uno?

[miginstruments]

@Subhash. Well Subhash I not in Bangalore anymore, but I like Bangalore so much that I dont want to change my status. I am really interested in the stuff you have got. Some of my friend can drop to your place to get it picked. Thanks for your support.....

[miginstruments]

YP I am really sorry to Hijack your post. It started somewhere else but now its somewhere. I am extremely sorry for that.

[yashodhanp]

Haha... It's all cool.. No worries =))

You arduino fellas might want to look at this

http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/diy-scratchbuilt-arduino/

[subhashjk0508]

@anjanbabu- reserved for miginstruments!! Ill let you know if he backsbup!!

@miginstruments- sir, you can reach me throught 9945333007 and just let me know what do you neex!!

regards,
JK

[shreeyak]

Hey, I'm also interested in what sensors and other stuff you have! I'm in colg so have a lot of projects to do,  they might be useful. Can I drop by to take a look, if u don't mind?

[shreeyak]

And if the mega is not booked, then what price would that be?

[subhashjk0508]

No problem!! Let me know when your planning to come!! And waiting for miginstruments to reply regarding the items he wants!!