RC India

1)i have a 20 amp red brick..if im ordering other 3 avionic 20 amps will the quad work fine?
2)i have no idea how to program controllers... is it easy to use an arduino as a controller? also i need to use sensors so which has the most open sources?(flight controllers)
3)plz send me a link to thread with explains how to calculate auw

http://www.rcindia.org/multirotors/tutorial-how-to-build-multirotor-from-scratch/ (http://www.rcindia.org/multirotors/tutorial-how-to-build-multirotor-from-scratch/)

1) It would be better to use same ESC's, different esc's have different features and settings and you cannot predict exactly if they would work together until and unless you try it for yourself.

2)You can use arduino nano with a 6dof IMU, and use multiwii firmware. I would not say its easy,its something of an intermediate level. Something to get you started.
https://www.scoutuav.com/2011/12/13/low-cost-arduino-based-auto-stabilizing-system/ (https://www.scoutuav.com/2011/12/13/low-cost-arduino-based-auto-stabilizing-system/)

3)I dont think there are formulas to calculate AUW per se.The thumb rule is AUW has to be less than half of total thrust generated by the motors. The lesser the AUW, more thrust you will have for flight. I usually select the motors first, and accordingly add things. Most of the websites displays weight of components so it helps a lot.

Its always better to select ESCs and motors of same ratings as well as same brands. Different brands have different operations and features. It is not at all advisable to use different escs since the way they'll response is not known. Also, a slight difference could topple your quad, break props, or even hurt you. BTW, please don't mind me asking, which sensors you are planning to use and what for?

plz don't get me crazy..read at your own risk

I have an arduino uno,, yet to learn how to code it, played with some very basic curcuits but i thought that i can attach infrared sensors to make it a flying autonomous robot within a campus and thermal cams to detect people hiding behind bushes (as in fiction movies) and light sensors to automatically switch on leds when its dark, and many more (don't wanna disclose them)

Well i know i wont be able to do all these stuffs in a blink of an eye.. the best idea will be to design a quad 1st

Its going to cost you a lot if you want thermal cams(not talking about infrared night vision cameras). Similarly infrared sensors have been used for obstacle detection and avoidance but there is no firmware yet that can do fully autonomous flight inside closed spaces. You would need to implement some sort of indoor global positioning system to achieve fully autonomous flight.
APM 2.5/6 is an arduino atmega 2560 based FC which has reached its maximum limit with all the features currently available in its latest firmware, so dont think you can achieve all this with arduino uno, you will need more processing power.

Two videos that will give you a fair idea on the possibilities with multirotors if you havent seen them yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ErEBkj_3PY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ErEBkj_3PY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2itwFJCgFQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2itwFJCgFQ)

Its not crazy,possibilities are unlimited; but the time,effort and investment involved is too high & not to forget the vast amount of reading/learning/research you need to do. Best of luck with your project  :thumbsup:

thanks, well i've seen both of the ted talks previously :)

 :help:
its a metal frame 500mm auw(just for frame) is 350-450gms...
best electronics?
further suggestions are welcome

pls ignore the 1st pic.. i'm trying to remove it but can't..accidently attached it...

well any suggestions for my to be quad?

will a little dent and a very little disbalance affect flight??

Hmm, Heavy
By the time you will attach the Motor mounts, Centre plates, Landing skids, it will be almost 500-600gms.
Better use Aluminium booms with nuts and bolts.

Do you need a stable quad or an agile quad?
Less KV Motor goes with  Larger prop = Stable and more efficient
Higher KV Motor goes with Smaller prop = Agile but less efficient


Best would be to stick with the most common specs. i.e. 3 Cell LiPo, 900-1200 KV motor and 8-10inch prop

Little dent = No Issues
Disbalance... Please explain what kind of disbalance are you talking about. Is it disbalance in weight, disbalance in angle of arm or disbalance in height of an arm?

thats what i thought.. but i'm afraid ...will that work? are we supposed to be very precise while making quad frame?? or little flaws are manageable??

in angle.. but thats very little and one cannot figure it out in a minute... but some people told me to go for aluminium rods available at hardware stores

Yep, Precision is very well required. Why not use a Frame Kit instead?
I mean you very well can save  :Rs: by using the above iron frame but then you will have to spend much more on electronics so as to be able to lift a heavy quad.
Also, these frames does get damaged pretty easily in case of crashes. Nylon frames on the other hand can take a lot of abuse.

A slight disbalance in angle should only create slight issues. Not much.
If you need a perfectly stable quad and if you use a KK2.X FCB instead then you might be able to overcome this issues.

i wanted to make something diy... but seems aluminium will be a better option

Aluminium booms certainly would be a lot better than Iron booms :thumbsup:

Use an old TV antenna , the aluminium is of good quality and ideal for
quad arms

my new frame...looks good na :) got it done for 45 bucks :)

might be 250gms.... electronics suggestions?

What is used to attach the ply boards to the PVC Pipes?
Looks like nails!!!

And what's the wheelbase on it?

yup..nails...

yet to make wheelbase :)

Nails are not enough. You need something stronger. Replace them with Nuts and Bolts
Rough measurement of the wheelbase would be enough (and required to figure out the electronics)

Just measure length from the end of one arm to the end of the diagonally opposite arm. That should give us a fair amount of idea.

450mm

Ok, 450mm is a good size to start with since electronics for it are easily available.
Will recommend that you stick with the most common specs. which willl be low cost as well.
Battery: 3 Cell LiPo
Motor (KV): 900KV to 1200 KV
Prop: 10 to 8inch prop

Remember,
Higher KV Motor + small prop = Agile quad + less efficiency.
Lower KV motor + Larger prop = Stable Quad + More efficiency (Mostly used)

well...that was helpful (though i know a bit of it)...any idea on which brands to go for?
wanna make it as cheap as possible

Well, the answer is simple.
If you need it cheap, instead of thinking of brands, just choose the one you find cheapest :thumbsup:

i mean hk stuff... they have hundreds of them for same price

got the motors..1000kv...9 inch prop...20 amp escs will work fine na?
what abt controller?

A 10 inch prop will be better than a 9 inch since it will be more stable.
Make sure that the motor can take on a 10 inch prop though.
It should.

Also check if the 20A ESC is enough with 10 inch props.
You should select an ESC with atleast 10% higher Amp Rating that the max Amp rating of the motor.

As far as FCB goes, nothing beats a KK2.1 for beginners.
Out of stock at HK, but in stock at Quadkopters.com :thumbsup:

how about kk 5.5? i getting that for 1k...2nd hand

KK5.5 or any similar boards are good if you like headaches.
Configuring them gets heavily messy at times.

I personally never recommend anything similar to a KK5.5 to a beginner.
But since you're on a uber low budget, i guess we are out of options.

budget not an big issue....spending 10k on electronics doesn't make me stingy for another 1k

Then get a KK2.1
It will make the configuration part much easier.

And the bonus is that there are tons of videos available on the web for KK2.0/2.1
And you won't even need the USBASP upfront.

how about apm 2.52
a bit costly but then its arduino compatible...and comes with gps interface

http://www.quadkopters.com/product/apm-2-52/ (http://www.quadkopters.com/product/apm-2-52/)

does this require anything else for gps modulation?

Configuration on APM too can get messy because of enormous features.
Also, with APM, you do also need the power module which is not cheap. You can use a BEC but that will further make things more and more complicated.

You won't be happy crashing a quad with an expensive board like APM.
Configure with KK2.1, learn flying, practise more and then upgrade to APM and do autonomous flights.

http://www.quadkopters.com/product/221213-1000kv-brushless-outrunner-motor-with-mount/ (http://www.quadkopters.com/product/221213-1000kv-brushless-outrunner-motor-with-mount/)

using these motors...description says max current =4-10amp.. >75% throttle

so 20 amp should work fine with 10 prop right?

yep, should be fine.

do we get a cable with programmer boards? and what if it comes with an lcd? can we still connected with lappy? what softwares for calibration? any thread or video to learn that?
plz excuse my stupid question...i'm a totally newbie to multirotors

got 4X1000 kv motors... but i've been strictly advised not to use 10'' props. as some people previously burnt their motors... whats your opinion?
will it be a problem if i'm using 30 amp esc?
what thrust will i get if i'm going for 20 amp esc and 9" prop?

Let me guess...
Maybe they were using higher pitch props?

10X4.5 or 10x4.7 props should be fine with 1000KV.
Do you have people complaining with 10x4.5 on the same motor?

Do one thing, Start with a 10x4.5 prop. If you don't find the motor to be too hot after flight, then no need to change it.
If the motor is too hot then only change to a 9X4.7 prop.

Any 15+ Amp ESC will be fine.

There won't be any thrust different no matter if you use 15A or 20A or 30A or even 100A ESC.
Please spend some time on YouTube.

Check with the store where you got it from for thrust data for different props.
And please stop using inch only for describing a props. Pitch do plays a major role as well.

You usually don't get the UBSASP along with FCB's but a LHS might bundle and sell it along.

On a non-LCD Board
You need the cable for Firmware updates as well as changing major configurations (like setting the mode X or +).

With a LCD Board (KK2.0/2.1)
You need the cable only for Firmware updates. Any and all configuration can be done right from the on board LCD itself.

Stay away from Firmware updates for first 50 hours or so. It can get messy at times.

Lots of threads and videos available with a common friend of ours.
They call it Google

haha ohk..can u calculate the thrust of a 1000 kv motor with 20amp esc and 9X4.5 prop?
and send me a link to how to calculate it
ty

hey there, i've got motors, kk2.1, and props...all i need is esc... will normal hobbyking 18amp good enough? people suggest to use costly turnigy plush 25amp

Hobbysea.com gives hobby king escs at 650... Will they work fine with quad?
http://hobbysea.com/products.php?25&cPath=15 (http://hobbysea.com/products.php?25&cPath=15)

waiting for your quick reply, on the verge of finishing my quad... just left with esc's

and how is it different from
http://hobbysea.com/products.php?353&cPath=15 (http://hobbysea.com/products.php?353&cPath=15)
and
http://hobbysea.com/products.php?246&cPath=15 (http://hobbysea.com/products.php?246&cPath=15)

i want my first quad to function well

my quad done... not able to set kk2.1 ... please help

Not sure why props are on if the configuration part is still not complete.
If you don't want to hurt yourself then take my advice. Put the quad aside for 1-2 days and spend as much time as possible on YouTube learning about KK2.0/2.1 and it's configuration.
Then remove the props and carry out the configuration as per the videos.

Once you are 100% sure that you have configured the quad correctly, then and only then put on the prop and then go outside on a calm non-windy day and try the first spool up.

Well see thats what i told you roby when you called me,learn how everything that you have works
And only then try to operate it

removed them,, programming done, not able to calibrate esc's with kk 2.1... any experience with that one?

maybe cuz i'm not very familiar with jingling sounds...

have seen a million videos and threads  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: now its getting really frustrating

i'm sooo sad  :'( :'( :'(

Ok, explain about the issue that you are having.

i'm not able to arm it, can u give me a skype help?

motor directions are fine.. when i'm pressing 1&4 and giving throttle it spins... now how can i make it plug and play? i cannot  hold 1&4 while flying the quad  :giggle: :giggle: ... in short how to arm it????

when i'm putting the low throttle to right.. nothing happens

is this because my safe leveling is off? if so how to make that thing on?? i'm not using aux..is this the reason??

Well, let's go step by step.

The process of pressing Button #1 and #4 is called ESC Calibration and not arming the board.
In ESC Calibration you basically are educating the ESC about the throttle range of your transmitter.
This communication goes via the FCB, hence you need to press the buttons on the FCB.
You need to do the ESC Calibration only once.

You need to press these 2 buttons and then connect the LiPo to the quad.
Please follow steps as per this video and let us know the outcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAaO6lyN0HI#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAaO6lyN0HI#ws)

After this step, all 4 motors would start spinning at the same time as you give throttle.

We'll cover arming the board later on.

this thing i've done a hundred times... tu tu tu... then 2 beeps..i'm putting throttle at 0,, 3 beeps...doing nothing...1 beep...leaving the 1 and 4 buttons...after this trying to arm it by moving right rudder...no signs of arming

Ok, then it seems that you have already completed ESC Calibration.
It's confusing because you've mentioned before 'when i'm pressing 1&4 and giving throttle it spins'

Moving on...
For arming the board, instead of moving the rudder to right, try moving rudder to left and let us know if the board gets armed now.
If you have installed the buzzer as well then you should hear a beep as well when the board arms.

I hope you have kept the props off.

oh wow it is armed....i love you dude...ur a genious :) :) thanks a lot

but this is not done....we were supposed to make it go right.. but thats for disarming lol..
well shall i put the props on?? any more advice before i fly??

the side in which 9X4.5 is written should face up right? but in this case i saw that two opposite props are throwing air upwards,,, how will they work??

You're welcome.

Yep, just use the reverse. Left for arming and Right for disarming.
Do a Jerk test first (Very Important) to ascertain if the gyros are working in the correct direction or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDZtdayCQ7Y# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDZtdayCQ7Y#)

Put on the props only when you are satisfied with the Jerk Test.
Then take out the quad outside and try the first spool up.
Stay atleast 5 meters away from the quad while first spool up.

If the gyros are reversed, the quad becomes crazy and flips at full speed in fraction of a second which is highly dangerous.

The text on the pops will always face upwards. Please watch the above video which will clear out the doubt if any of the motors is spinning in the wrong direction.
To reverse the direction, all you have to do is to switch 2 leads of that motor.

roby! if your doing down left instead of down right, reverse the rudder channel on your Tx...

some motors too fast...rest slow... it lifts one particular side... solution pls???

Remove props.
Give very little throttle and check if all motors start spooling up at the same time or not.

checked that previously... they spool at the same time but with different speeds

Please check again.
Also, have you gone through the video of the Jerk Test above?

Please provide some closeup images of the FCB showing connections, motors, props and the quad as a whole.

i know its messed up

its stalling even before it can take off :'(

Forget about the FCB connections, i am not even able to make out the direction in which the FCB is mounted :giggle:
Since the whole quad is too cluttered, i would recommend that you do meet some local expert who can check the quad for the possible cause of issue.

Is the quad levelled while stalling?
If yes, try with a 10X4.5 props the weight of your quad might be too much for a 1000kv 9X4.7 prop setup.

BTW, What's the current AUW?

9X4.5 actually :(

yes you're right... chital told me otors will burn up if i'll go for 10"
weight should be more than 1.5kg

I'm facing some problems dealing with my quadcopter... it wants to dance not to fly...
as i'm a newbie to multirotors investing 15k with no results is my worst possible nightmare..
care to guide me?

can you post your config. and problem?

x config... problem is it cant lift itself and is stalling in one particular direction

roby
from your pics you posted above i see that you have not mounted props in correct order. second thing dont use cellotape. keep your setup neat and clean. mount your FC properly.

mounting props in correct order? what does that even mean?? and yes..i think my fc's little tilted.. in that case i'm required to do acc calibration again??

kk 2.1, scratch built frame, 1000kv outrunners, 25 amp turnigy plush escs 9X4.5 props

props on the same arm must be CW or CCW on your pic one prop look cw while other one is ccw on the same arm.

brought from quadkopters.com ... well there's sth serious cuz its extreamely unstable... can't lift the thing

check KK2.1 motor layout. make sure you have X mode loaded. it will show you which motor should rotote in which direction. once done mount props in that order. like below

m1    m2
cw    ccw
       X
m4     m3
ccw  cw

i dont know whats cw and ccw

Roby my friend, I don't know if I should feel sorry for you or chastise you. With your RC Skills reading a self professed "Intermediate", you have no right not to know the difference between CW and CCW.

Props that are designed to spin Clock Wise are CW, whilst those that spin Counter Clock Wise are CCW.

http://flyduino.net/HQ-3D-8x45-reversible-CF-reinforced-Propellers-Set-2-CW-und-2-CCW (http://flyduino.net/HQ-3D-8x45-reversible-CF-reinforced-Propellers-Set-2-CW-und-2-CCW)

These pictures should be self explanatory. Look at the third picture closely. Notice the pitch of the props. Are your props mounted similarly?

well explained VC sir.

+1 VC



The above 2 comments doesn't go well together.

I have been seeing a lot of people recently deliberately telling that they did something when infact they never did.
Example: A customer of ours recently called about a Glow Plug Lighter and told me that it's not generating enough heat.
I asked him to use a voltmeter to check the voltage of the Cell that he is using.
He said had already checked it and found it to be 1.5 volts.

I asked him which cell was he using and he told that he was using a Rechargeable Cell which clearly is wrong since rechargeable AA cells usually doesn't go over 1.2 volts.
I guess people are getting more and more lazy 8-)

The video under Reply#11 does already cover up about CW and CCW props. But seems you didn't closely watched that video either.

Roby, The whole reason behind this frustration i'm afraid is anxiety. While we certainly can understand that anxiety will be there when you start on something new. But we also want you to understand that if you don't go step by step then everything will get more and more messed up which will create and increase this frustration.
I hope it makes sense.

And guys i suggested 9" props by purpose
Please calculate the thrust required to lift a quad and the thrust generated by these motors in 9" props
Please advise after calculating thrust specially to someone who is new to this
No offence.....
@roby
You need to have patience for this
You have to learn stuff
The quad will not fly until everything is set perfect and the best way would be meet someone locally

9X4.7 props on a regular quad 1000KV motor is fine.
It's just that since Roby is not going step by step, it's creating a lot of confusion.
Apart from that, he is not using the correct terms.

Example: Stall
He did mounted few props wrong way and in such case the quad can't even leave the ground.
But he referred to it as stall which means approaching ground (while the quad is in the air)

Well i know that but buy asking him what does he mean by stall all he would get is confused lol

oh well thanks vc sir, i got confused their,, i thought it comes in a way whr same colours lie opposite as in many quads.. it was not the case with this quad..

And for your kind information i'm an intermediate to planes not to quads.. visible right?

and Mr. indian hobby .. i mentioned that it stalled even before it left ground... no questions of falling

Very visible.

Do we hint a faint trace of sarcasm here? That would be quite unwarranted after your plaintive cry fro help 'plz plz plz....'

Being an intermediate in RC aircraft you will no doubt understand that Indian Hobby Shop was merely pointing out the difference between a 'STALL' and a model 'Not leaving the ground'.

Hmm, Well if that's how Plane intermediate flyer uses a term like Stall (a term which is so closely associated with planes) then All i can say is.. Sorry for not understanding "your language".
In the language that i'm familiar with (they call it English) Stalling means falling from air to ground and not from ground to ground  :rofl:

BTW, They call me Bhavesh.
It's in my signature... visible right?

Mr. bhavesh....in your language what ever you call it... is happening again...even after fixing the props

The whole idea is that when you start to work on anything you should go step by step.
If you do get stuck, it's most likely because you were not going step by step.

What to do when you're stuck?
Try to rectify the issue by going step by step atleast this time.
But doing rectification as well in an unorganised manner will make things more and more complicated.

The video under Reply #11 (Which i personally shot) talks about the Props CW and CCW, Motor Rotation direction, Prop orientation and spinning Direction, Jerk Test and others. If the video would have been followed then the question about What is CW and CCW wouldn't have come in reply# 29. Instead it should have came as reply #12.

Sarcasm, It's everywhere. :bow:

i thought cw or cww was some specification of prop... well stop pointing out
rather you can help me to finish this quad.. define your step by step :) that'll help others as well
Maybe i'm nowhere as compared to you , you got brains... does that charges you to make fun of others?

Let's not get heated up. If we are to help this young man, let's be sincere about it.

Roby go step by step. For the moment, forget about the props - Two of your motors mounted on either side of an arm will spin clockwise (check the diagram I have posted above). Have you achieved that in the correct positions?

 {:)} that's the spirit  :thumbsup:

Take off your props. Attach little pieces of adhesive tape to your motor shafts, power up the unit and see if the motors are spinning the way they should.

If they aren't, all you have to do is to de solder the wires going from ESC to motor and interchange any two wires. The motor rotation direction will be reversed. Got that? If not PM me your number and I will call you and talk you through it.

Go ahead VC :thumbsup:

the props moving is right direction... opposite it same.. so checked
all possible reasons for problem:-1)my frame is a bit crazy... wood pieces mounted on pvc.. looks nice but i doubt frame might be a problem.
2)i'm not using a pdb.. all wires soldered.. can that be a reason for one of the motors to spin slow?
3)board is not screwed..maybe the flight is not stabilized... though i'm pretty sure that my acc calibration went fine

You have a PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6m49Cw3OFU&hd=1#aid=P8VsU_mE_zQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6m49Cw3OFU&hd=1#aid=P8VsU_mE_zQ)

Merged.

This is your final warning against creating multiple threads on a single build.

People have to ask again and again in the new thread about what you equipment you are using, what have you done and tried so far etc.  It is confusing and extremely annoying, and I have got multiple complaints about this. Simply put, creating a new thread on an ongoing issue defies every bit of the minimum common sense that we all should have.

quad is fine....it did lifted itself...but is highly unstable... and it revolves on its own axis very fast....just like earth... bit more fast..

what next sir''''s??

Well prop and motor all together rotation is wrong and props are not balanced and flight control board is not mounted on vibration damping material

fc is mounted properly this time and rotations fine.. opp. cw and adjacent ccw.. all props throwing air down... i have just missed the prop balancing step...can it have this big impact??

http://youtu.be/akzNA3XfWoo (http://youtu.be/akzNA3XfWoo)

What are your views vc sir??

Are your motors alignments strictly vertical? Have you followed the youtube video and programmed the board in all respects?

Reverse the Yaw gyro on it and you should be fine.

Yes sir... Well doesn't matter now... I'll be going for a new frame.. And this time will go step by step with patience.. I had flaws... Lack of knowledge or be it haste

Attaboy, that's the spirit! All the best for the new build.

Roby !!

that is the attitude, you will go a long way !! in this hobby,, very early in life you have been taught patience..Good for you. Keep at it :thumbsup:

 :hatsoff: thanks for support forum heros  {:)}

Have you spoken with the carpenter? Ask him if he can cut you 2 circles of 6" dia from 4mm ply. They will serve as the mounting boards of your electronics = Controller board and Rx (upper level) and Battery (lower level).

 Aluminium tubes from here:

http://aeroworks.co.in/store/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product (http://aeroworks.co.in/store/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product)

Roby you're welcome to come over to Noida sometime this weekend if you need help with the quad. :)

have my exams now... but am planning to stay this summer in delhi so will visit very soon...
still if you plan to come delhi you're most welcome to come over to meet me,, after all we share a common hobby apart from rotors.. :) guitar :D

Soon you will get any copter hubs, wooden and aluminum booms, h-quad hub and motor mounts on quadkopters. So your quad building will be more easy

quad wants to dance..Some issues with esc calibration or pi settings i guess..  :banghead: :banghead:
if anyone can fix it with a skype call or whatsapp guidance, and will correct me.. i have a very special rc gift for him :thumbsup: :thumbsup:,
will ship it for free  ;D

Issue is somewhat like this, but a bit more horrendous as it wants to flip even before it can lift itself properly

http://youtu.be/akzNA3XfWoo (http://youtu.be/akzNA3XfWoo)

You can even have a hands on if you're from Delhi

Ping me at 9555569902

Reverse the yaw limit in Mixer editor for all motors, as in if the Rudder= -70 make it +70
check the motor layout and check if the corresponding motors are spinning in the correct direction
Redo this step for whichever control is going out of control, turning in the wrong direction by itself