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New Tricopter Build

Started by Ashta, October 29, 2010, 11:48:10 AM

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Ashta

Hello,
I was getting bit bored making planes. So decided to try a Tri/ Quad raptor as a DIY project. So last one or two months i dedicated lot of my time reading. RCGroups multi rotor section and Aerial photography section was very usefull and informative.

Started collecting parts parallely. The first was to get some nice booms. Went to a guy selling old packing materials, got some nice Pine wood and took it to a mill and got it cut.

After reading a lot and exchanging info i was debating in my mind whether to go for a KK muticopter or a signguy type. Settled on Signguy type to start with.

Then got 1.5 mm FRC sheet for the frame.

pl see the photos
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Ashta

The Yaw mechanism.
Was thinking about how to do it for a long time. Finally settled for a old CDROM Lazer carrige modified suitably.

pl find the photos.

You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

Ordered all the parts from Hobbycity.
4x #TR2410-9/6549 TURNIGY Bell TR2410-9 840kv Outrunner variations
4x #HK-SS18A/6456 Hobbyking SS Series 15-18A ESC variations
4x #GWPRR003S3D/5250 GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop Counter Rotate (2pc) variations
4x #GWPRO003S3D/5248 GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop (2pc pack) variations
3x #AM1001A/68 PolyMax 3.5mm Gold Connectors 10 PAIRS (20PC) variations
1x #X8R6-S/7900 X8 R6 6Ch 2.4GHz Receiver (Short Antenna) variations
2x #R1350-30-3/7658 Rhino 1350mAh 3S1P 30C Lipoly Pack variations
4x #HK401B/10113 Hobby King 401B AVCS Digital Head Lock Gyro  variations

while waiting for the parts, continued my reading and also tried completing the frames.

and finally the parts arrived.


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Ashta

Assembly of the tricopter.
This took nearly 3- 4 evenings.
It is now ready for powering on and testing.
I have no prior experience in Heli flying.
Hope that i will manage.
This is still not powered on. Will do it in couple of days.
pl see some more photos
thanking you..

Ashta
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Ashta

some more photos.

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prateek13

PHATA POSTER NIKLA HERO! ;D
best of luck!
Award | OFNA Nexx8 | Art-Tech Edge 540T | Glidiator V2 | Hawker Tempest | Cessna Citation Jet
Turnigy 9X
FPV Platforms : CF Tricopter| HK EPP FPV | Bixler 1 | Bixler 2 | DJI Phantom 2 +H3 3D

izmile

Wow! very interesting build. All the best for the testing. I am sure it would fly as you expect.

-Ismail
"Anything can fly" - SPADs just prove that!

sundaram

Ashta Ji very interesting thread fabulous.  {:)}  {:)}  {:)}  

I am following this intently. Eagerly awaiting more details on servos setup and mixing, gyros setup, throttle mixing and reference details.

anwar

#8
Be very cautious at the first attempt to lift off, I would recommend doing it on a forgiving surface (grass).

The gyro compensation direction needs to be set... plus the gains and channel end points often (if not always) need to be tweaked in this design.  And remember that once powered on, the motors can turn just by gyro inputs alone (even at zero throttle), so please do keep your hands away from the props !

And you have to set it up as a heli model with 3 swash servo setting.

Awaiting the videos :)
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

sandeepm

Nice  {:)} {:)}
Awaiting first run Videos.......
Fly high if you have good set of batteries.....!

Ashta

thanks all. I will surely post the videos. But next few days i am O/S and hence it will be after 4-5 days.
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ashJR7202

oh!!!!!! u did it again!!!!
this was my dream project!!!!!

would love to see ur more comments, experience building it!!!
Hanger: Mini Yak-54| 210 Phantom | SU-47| F-15| EuroFighter|Scrappy|SU 27|Eurofighter|Sukhoi PAK FA
Blade MCX| Blade CP PRO
JR XP7202| DX7

SunLikeStar

that machine looks huge for a tricopter. cant wait to see it fly. subscribed.

praveen

another masterpiece from magic hands !  :bow:
waiting for video  :)
good luck sir :thumbsup:
To increase thrust you need more  money! But to reduce weight you  need nothing!

Ashta

As anwar said it is extremely dangerous to test the Tricopter fully armed with Props. It is better to test it step by step.
Step1: Test CCPM 120 Degress mixing, working correctly
Step2: Check all Gyros working correctly.
Step3: Motor Bell balancing
Step4: Propeller balancing
Step5: Try flying and adjust the Gyro gain.

From step1 to step3, We can test it by replacing the motors with Servos. Detailed procedures can be found at:
http://www.rcexplorer.se/page14/triguide/triguide.html
Here is a video of step1.


thanks


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medicineman1987

Best of luck with your tri-copter Ashta sir.. Looks really good.. Hopefully i'll build a similar one some day :)
"The day you stop playing with your toys is the day you start getting ready to die.."

FlySky 9x (with ER9x,  backlight mod &  dual module hack) | Futaba SkySport 4VF (with 5th channel hack) | Glidiator - scratchbuilt 60" electric glider | SkySurfer | Scratchbuilt Tricopter | FT Nutball |  .46 Glow trainer (electric conversion in progress)

Ashta

Thank you all for the wishes. i am o/s for few days will be back after 3-4 days.
You can't be first because you do not know!

prateek13

Award | OFNA Nexx8 | Art-Tech Edge 540T | Glidiator V2 | Hawker Tempest | Cessna Citation Jet
Turnigy 9X
FPV Platforms : CF Tricopter| HK EPP FPV | Bixler 1 | Bixler 2 | DJI Phantom 2 +H3 3D

VC

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional!

rohitgupta322

Be Inquisitive

Ashta

Quote from: VC on November 06, 2010, 11:29:12 PM
Ashta Sir :bow: :bow: :bow:
Thanks VC and Rohit,
i was out of station till today. will try to do some work this week. again whole next week i am away. sorry, to keep you waiting..
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Ashta

There are many fine tunings to be done and ensured before flying the Tricopter, namely,
1. The swash mixing ratio
2. The gain for Motor Gyros
3. Gain for the Yaw Srvo
4.The Throws and Exponential.
5. Balancing of Motors.
6. Balancing of Props.
7. Last but not least " Learning to fly"

here is the video of my tricopter test set up, where i have hung the tricopter on a string and fine tuning. If luck is on my side, i will post a string free video in a weeks time.

thanks for watching


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rajathv8

The 18-20A esc comes with connectors or only wire?

anam_funny

Please do the modificatiuon in the gyros... that is very important... after 2-3 flights... the gyros will start loosing their precision... YOU NEED TO MODIFY THE GYROS...

Ashta

thanks already done.
pl find the link
http://sergio.salvi.ca/2009/10/18/mystery-gyro-g401b-modifications/?src=hk



Quote from: anam_funny on November 12, 2010, 11:08:17 AM
Please do the modificatiuon in the gyros... that is very important... after 2-3 flights... the gyros will start loosing their precision... YOU NEED TO MODIFY THE GYROS...
You can't be first because you do not know!

rajathv8


Ashta

only wires and no connectros
You can't be first because you do not know!

rajathv8


anam_funny

Yes.. and the speed controls... kindly put them upside down. the heat sink is not getting enough air (it is on the side where there is no sticker). so that will eventually result in energy loss and decreased efficiency...

iamahuman

"Chuck Norris once overcharged a lipo. Thank him for the Sun."

SSC LCG Slash 4x4.
JQ THE eCar.

anam_funny

Just sharing what modiications i did to my tri....

Ashta

Ha Iflies. Hers is a short video, from Hoskote Today. I have never flown a heli and first time flying a Tricopter.
It took off well and was flying very stable. But i was very nervous and landed it fast and that too in to a pool of water.
Kept it for drying.. Hope that nothing has gone wrong.
Oh.. what a relief. now it is only a quetsion of trials and learning.
The machine seems to be perfect.
thanks for all.
Anam funny: The max current that my ESCs share is 4-6 Amps and at these currents they are cool
pl watch the short video
You can't be first because you do not know!

santhosh


SunLikeStar

a job well done, congrats  :thumbsup:
i wonder how much flight time you can get with the 1350mAh because 6 amps is not much.

Ashta

thnks sunlike star. The min for a tricopter of this size will be 2200maH


Quote from: SunLikeStar on November 13, 2010, 03:09:17 PM
a job well done, congrats  :thumbsup:
i wonder how much flight time you can get with the 1350mAh because 6 amps is not much.
You can't be first because you do not know!

iamahuman

It looks and sounds alien.But awesome stuff.
"Chuck Norris once overcharged a lipo. Thank him for the Sun."

SSC LCG Slash 4x4.
JQ THE eCar.

rohitgupta322

Wow well done ashta sir, really good. :salute:
Be Inquisitive

izmile

"Anything can fly" - SPADs just prove that!

Ashta

Thanks Rohit, Izimile, Iamahuman.
thank you very much for the kind words.

ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

thanks santhosh. hoping to meet you in Kerals some time.

Quote from: santhosh on November 13, 2010, 02:56:57 PM
congrats :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
You can't be first because you do not know!

anwar

Nice and stable :thumbsup:

The trick to landing these, and even regular helis is to try to make them hover at a small height, and let gravity do its thing gradually.  Do NOT bring down the throttle stick lower than 1 or 2 clicks from the position needed to make it hover at a constant height.
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

anam_funny

Hey...!!! That is completely awesome... What is the AUW?

rajathv8

Me , vikas , vinay (another vinay) and ashok were at the lake bed from 4pm to 7pm. Darn just missed i guess :(

VC

The bar just got raised higher by a mile!  :bow: :bow: :bow:

Proud of you Sir.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional!

Ashta

thanks. the auw is 1.1kg

Quote from: anam_funny on November 13, 2010, 06:25:46 PM
Hey...!!! That is completely awesome... What is the AUW?
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

thanks VC and all the best to u




Quote from: VC on November 13, 2010, 09:11:07 PM
The bar just got raised higher by a mile!  :bow: :bow: :bow:

Proud of you Sir.
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

Thanks Sundaramvelar. I missed your comments, sorry. The machine seems to be very stable, though i am still to learn to fly it with confidence,
thanks a lot
ashta



Quote from: sundaramvelar on October 29, 2010, 12:22:44 PM
Ashta Ji very interesting thread fabulous.  {:)}  {:)}  {:)} 

I am following this intently. Eagerly awaiting more details on servos setup and mixing, gyros setup, throttle mixing and reference details.
You can't be first because you do not know!

anwar

Please do post the radio/gyro settings you had to tweak.  That would be interesting information to many (especially gyro gain, gyro mode etc) :)
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

Ashta

Dear Anwar,
I will post them.
Still i think that there is lot of scope to play around. Most of the tweaking i did by trying to fly the copter by passing a string thru the center and watching carefully. ( pl see the video i had posted)
After doing this i have not done any tuning on real flight. I should do that for more fine tuning.
Let me try to recollect.
Mine is Futabs 7C
Swash:
HR3, 120 CCPM
Aeleron= +43
Elevator=-40
Pitch= -100

For the Three Motor Gyros, the Gains are connected together to TH chanel (Ch3).
50% = Neutral
60%= 20% Gain rate mode
70%= 40% Gain rate mode
80%=60% Gain rate mode
90%=80% Gain rate mode
100%=100% Gain rate mode

I kept at aroud 93%

40%= 20% Gain Head Hold mode
30%= 40% Gain Head Hold mode
20%=60% Gain Head Hold mode
10%=80% Gain Head Hold mode

Motor Gyros are always in rate mode

For the Yaw Gyro, the gain is thru CH 5. I control it thru Switch A. On power on i keep it in rate mode and while flying i put it in Head hold mode.
Sw pos 1= +100
Sw pos2= -100
Pos 1 i keep at 50
Po 2 i keep at -39
The Pitch curve is
30.5
45
58
72
100

This is my last settings





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anwar

So your throttle channel is reversed, it seems.  Can you post reversal information too for all channels.
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

Ashta

All channels not reversed incl throttle, except rudder.
You can't be first because you do not know!

anwar

That is strange... normally the gain works were >50 is heading hold and <50 is rate mode.  If your gain channel is not reversed, then the earlier numbers would be in the wrong mode.  Have you verified the mode (HH vs rate) by observing the light on the gyro ?
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

sundaram

#52
Ashta Ji,

For a non heli guy what you have achieved in your first attempt on the tri-copter, "it is absolutely fantastic".   {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} Myself being a non heli guy many gyro settings, tweaks and mixing posted by you is difficult to understand.  I have to get onto some serious reading on heli setup and mixing.

I can but only fathom the level to which you have gone into the details of the setup of this flying beauty.  But at AUW 1.1 Kgs, seeing it fly itself is an absolute pleasure.

Guys like me would be fortunate to learn in some more details of the same in basics of the setup and even basics of the swash mixing, rate gyros, heading hold gyros, their control from radio and various radio setups for the heli mode and how the various percentages of the gain setup is affecting the flight of the Heli/tri copter.

Ashta

surely Anwar. had spent lot of time on this and confirmed.
Pl see my Video of testing Tri with Gyros.
I first connect a speed controller and motor to Ch3 and see that the motor is turning fast when i throttle up.
Now i connect a servo instead of motor and check which direction it moves (cw/ccw) when i give throttle.
Now i connect W/o gyros and ensure proper travel of servo wrt Aeleron/ elevator inputs.
repaet them with Gyros.
The motor Gyros (3nos() gain is controlled by Ch3, Throttle.
100 is rate mode max gain
0 is Hold mode max gain. Gyro light comes on from 0 - 45.
Since i give -100 for pitch in Swash, this makes sense, is'nt it?



Quote from: anwar on November 15, 2010, 05:26:45 PM
That is strange... normally the gain works were >50 is heading hold and <50 is rate mode.  If your gain channel is not reversed, then the earlier numbers would be in the wrong mode.  Have you verified the mode (HH vs rate) by observing the light on the gyro ?
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

Thank you very much Sundaramvelar.
I did spent quite some time reading and undrestanding. Apart from that there is not much frankly...
thanks one again.
I am again Out of sation for some time and may not be able to reply to posts.
ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

anwar

Quote from: Ashta on November 16, 2010, 01:01:35 PM
Since i give -100 for pitch in Swash, this makes sense, is'nt it?

That is why it makes sense... had missed that part !  Somewhere it had to be reversed, otherwise it is always >50 that is HH mode.
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

Ashta

hello,
i have done some more work with my TRI.
1. Instead of Pine booms, i have made it with Aluminium channel, embedded with wood. Makes it much stronger and added weight of about 100 grams.
2. The yaw mechanism is more strong.
4. Made it foldable using simple clips.

Pl see the attached photos for clarity.

Also i tried to fly my tri in my garage which is only 8x 6 feet flyiable area, with aheight of about 6.2 feet. It is a challenge but worth for learning.
pl find a short video. pardon be for the poor quality, its again shot thr my crude HAT cam.

Thanking you
ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

more photos
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

more photo and video
You can't be first because you do not know!

foamybuilder

Good and neat design.. {:)}
There is one guy(rcexplorer) who has built a tricopter. I am a fan of this guy.You can see this and improve yours too...
http://www.rcexplorer.se/projects/tricopter/tricopter.html

Ashta

thanks Foamybuilder. though i have gone thru that as part of my extensive reading before i attempted this. thank you
ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

rohitgupta322

Be Inquisitive

anwar

Looks like you have got the hang of heli hovering :thumbsup:
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

medicineman1987

Wow!!!.. That thing is nice and stable! Congratulations Ashta sir!
"The day you stop playing with your toys is the day you start getting ready to die.."

FlySky 9x (with ER9x,  backlight mod &  dual module hack) | Futaba SkySport 4VF (with 5th channel hack) | Glidiator - scratchbuilt 60" electric glider | SkySurfer | Scratchbuilt Tricopter | FT Nutball |  .46 Glow trainer (electric conversion in progress)

Ashta

You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

Oh no Anwar.. still bacha.. lot to learn
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

Slow.......ly learning to fly this.
Thank you for watching.
You can't be first because you do not know!

SunLikeStar

looks like you are now enjoying the fruits of labour.  {:)}

anwar

Ashta bhai - Nice flight :thumbsup:

Looks like you should do some tweaking of the pitch curve, so that the landings can be more gradual.
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

rohitgupta322

Awesome stability.  :salute: :salute: Magnificient Ashta sir  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Be Inquisitive

Ashta

thanks sunlikestar. Yes i do.. esp there are many other possibilities here like KK copter Wii etc... i think that there is lot of scope here..
thanks once again..


Quote from: SunLikeStar on December 09, 2010, 06:16:17 PM
looks like you are now enjoying the fruits of labour.  {:)}

You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

thanks Anwar... Good idea.. i will try this. Thanks for the Tips..



Quote from: anwar on December 09, 2010, 06:27:55 PM
Ashta bhai - Nice flight :thumbsup:

Looks like you should do some tweaking of the pitch curve, so that the landings can be more gradual.
You can't be first because you do not know!

koushik

Hello Ashta sir, looks like you have switched your allegiance from planes to copters  :) .. Thats a really cool 'Flying object' you have made  ;D .. I think you are not seen in jakkur these days? any plans to come to jakkur in coming weeks? hope to catch up with you and all your new scratch builds some time.

cheers
Koushik

Ashta

Dear kaushik,
good evening... did not do any other scratch builds other than this copter which took lot of my time, mainly reading and getting a hang of this.. still far away from learning to fly... Old is not gold for learning.....
see u this sunday
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

#76
1. A low voltage alarm is a must for Tri/Multi copters since there is no wing and there for lift. Hence, once the battery is empty the Tri can come down and crash like a stone.
2. It is always better to Power on the recievers and the Gyro first and stabilise them before giving Power to the EScs. This is because some of the ESCs need to see a valid PPM signal for a good healthy Power on. Hence BEC is a good idea.
3. In a SIGNGUY TRICOPTER, the gain of three motor gyros are combined and given to throttle channel. It is a good idea to have aconnector to do it on board.

all the above requirements are obtained in the given cct attached. This whole cct costs lesss than rs40.00
This is not my cct. i have gathered it from several places.
I have wired this on a proto board on my TRICOPTER and it works very well.
Sharing the Photo and the cct.
thanks
ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

anwar

Nice !

So a single battery is used, for the BEC also ?

When I was messing with the quad, I also realized that powering up the gyros first is important, but I did it with an external BEC and a separate 2s receiver lipo.
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

Ashta

#78
Quote from: anwar on December 11, 2010, 03:51:02 PM
So a single battery is used, for the BEC also ?
yes Anwar. The same 3 cell Battery's balancing plug is used to power on the RCVR and the Gyros. Once the Light on the Gyros is stable ( indicating that they are initialised and armed), then u connect the main Connector of the battery to the Escs. Each power on requires throttle calibration.. so keet the throttle channel full before power on.




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ujjwaana

#79
Quote from: Ashta on December 11, 2010, 02:52:43 PM
all the above requirements are obtained in the given cct attached.

The Circuit diagram for the voltage alarm would be fantastic.
I see you are using the servo connector to connect the Lipo balance lines to the board. JST-XH male/Female (including 90 degree connectors) are available in SP Road by the name of 'RMC' connector. Arihant Electronics on the main road (near the temples) have good quality ones.
Futaba 8FG Super | HK-450v2 | FA-22 Raptor |AXN Floater-Jet | FunJet | Black Horse Edge 540 | Amp Master 015 | 2.3M Big Brother

anwar

Quote from: ujjwaana on December 11, 2010, 07:03:48 PM
The Circuit diagram for the voltage alarm would be fantastic.

Already posted above...

http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/new-tricopter-build/?action=dlattach;attach=628384

PS: That reminds me... I have to put a bigger icon for PDF attachments.
Hangar : Please see my introduction.
RC India forum and me : About this forum.

Ashta

#81
probabaly u missed the cct diagram i had attached as a PDF file in my post. The very idea of my post was to share this.
I am using the same Balance connector matching male connector (available form SP road) to Tap the 12V from the balance connector of the Lipo. This is fed to the "Low volatage alarm" and BEC circuits.
hope this is clear.
ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

Not able to fly for many weekends.

Just could try my TRI, two days back. Progressing inch by inch.. but very stable platform..

here is a short video.


thanks.
ashta
You can't be first because you do not know!

rohitgupta322

Wow rock stable ashta sir  :salute: :salute:. BTW how susceptible is it to winds.
Be Inquisitive

medicineman1987

Man.. That thing is stable! Ashta sir, how much flight time does it give? ( Damn.. I sound like a Maruti Suziki ad don't I...  Kitna deti hai? :giggle: )
"The day you stop playing with your toys is the day you start getting ready to die.."

FlySky 9x (with ER9x,  backlight mod &  dual module hack) | Futaba SkySport 4VF (with 5th channel hack) | Glidiator - scratchbuilt 60" electric glider | SkySurfer | Scratchbuilt Tricopter | FT Nutball |  .46 Glow trainer (electric conversion in progress)

foamybuilder

LOL! I just remembered the Maruti Add before I could read your complete quote!!

Ashta

Thanks rohit. sorry for the late reply.
I have tried this in moderate winds w/o problems. 10 -15 KM/hour i suppose.




Quote from: rohitgupta322 on January 20, 2011, 03:15:41 PM
Wow rock stable ashta sir  :salute: :salute:. BTW how susceptible is it to winds.
You can't be first because you do not know!

Ashta

i use two type of batteries.
1. 2200mah,3cell= gives me 10-12 mins
2. 4400mah,3cell= gives me 20 mins
You can't be first because you do not know!

VC

Ashta Sir's creations, as far as I am concerned, serve one major purpose. They make me feel so mediocre and my efforts seems so inadequate. Seriously.

Maestro! :bow: :bow: :bow:
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional!

Ashta

#89
dear vc,
not at all.... The efforts that you are doing and the services that u provide (coaching IIT students..) are remarkable. Waiiting to see your hovercraft in full swing..
best regards
ashta

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arjun1

Hello Ashta sir; i want to build a tricopter as a final year project what home work did u do before the actual build. any suggestions on what books to read?

Ashta

#91
Quote from: arjun1 on January 31, 2011, 08:30:22 AM
Hello Ashta sir; i want to build a tricopter as a final year project what home work did u do before the actual build. any suggestions on what books to read?
hi arhun,
sorry for the late reply. I was out of station.
u can see all the posts here. it is a long read...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1142429

i got all the information from the above posts


You can't be first because you do not know!

arjun1


SunLikeStar

Quote from: Ashta on October 29, 2010, 11:48:10 AM
Then got 1.5 mm FRC sheet for the frame.
Where did you source these sheets from?

Ashta

conatct pcb vendors in pune
You can't be first because you do not know!

SunLikeStar


hyd_quads

Hello Ashta sir.
I am currently building a quad with a MultiWii CRIUS board. I am using aluminium square pipes. Did you come across any FRC sheet sellers ONLINE? Thanks.

Vineet

Ashta

no vineet, i got it from a local PCB vendor
You can't be first because you do not know!

viraj1991

where did you order all the parts from , ashta ji ?