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« on: October 29, 2010, 11:48:10 AM »
Ashta
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Hello,
I was getting bit bored making planes. So decided to try a Tri/ Quad raptor as a DIY project. So last one or two months i dedicated lot of my time reading. RCGroups multi rotor section and Aerial photography section was very usefull and informative.

Started collecting parts parallely. The first was to get some nice booms. Went to a guy selling old packing materials, got some nice Pine wood and took it to a mill and got it cut.

After reading a lot and exchanging info i was debating in my mind whether to go for a KK muticopter or a signguy type. Settled on Signguy type to start with.

Then got 1.5 mm FRC sheet for the frame.

pl see the photos

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New Tricopter Build
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2010, 11:51:12 AM »
Ashta
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The Yaw mechanism.
Was thinking about how to do it for a long time. Finally settled for a old CDROM Lazer carrige modified suitably.

pl find the photos.


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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 11:55:24 AM »
Ashta
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Ordered all the parts from Hobbycity.
4x #TR2410-9/6549 TURNIGY Bell TR2410-9 840kv Outrunner variations
4x #HK-SS18A/6456 Hobbyking SS Series 15-18A ESC variations
4x #GWPRR003S3D/5250 GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop Counter Rotate (2pc) variations
4x #GWPRO003S3D/5248 GWS HD9050 3 Blade Prop (2pc pack) variations
3x #AM1001A/68 PolyMax 3.5mm Gold Connectors 10 PAIRS (20PC) variations
1x #X8R6-S/7900 X8 R6 6Ch 2.4GHz Receiver (Short Antenna) variations
2x #R1350-30-3/7658 Rhino 1350mAh 3S1P 30C Lipoly Pack variations
4x #HK401B/10113 Hobby King 401B AVCS Digital Head Lock Gyro  variations

while waiting for the parts, continued my reading and also tried completing the frames.

and finally the parts arrived.



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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 11:59:00 AM »
Ashta
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Assembly of the tricopter.
This took nearly 3- 4 evenings.
 It is now ready for powering on and testing.
I have no prior experience in Heli flying.
Hope that i will manage.
This is still not powered on. Will do it in couple of days.
pl see some more photos
thanking you..

Ashta

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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2010, 12:00:21 PM »
Ashta
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some more photos.


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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 12:15:05 PM »
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PHATA POSTER NIKLA HERO! Grin
best of luck!
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 12:18:10 PM »
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Wow! very interesting build. All the best for the testing. I am sure it would fly as you expect.

-Ismail
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 12:22:44 PM »
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Ashta Ji very interesting thread fabulous.  Clap  Clap  Clap  

I am following this intently. Eagerly awaiting more details on servos setup and mixing, gyros setup, throttle mixing and reference details.
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 01:01:36 PM »
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Be very cautious at the first attempt to lift off, I would recommend doing it on a forgiving surface (grass).

The gyro compensation direction needs to be set... plus the gains and channel end points often (if not always) need to be tweaked in this design.  And remember that once powered on, the motors can turn just by gyro inputs alone (even at zero throttle), so please do keep your hands away from the props !

And you have to set it up as a heli model with 3 swash servo setting.

Awaiting the videos Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 01:40:33 PM »
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Nice  Clap Clap
Awaiting first run Videos.......
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 03:11:38 PM »
Ashta
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thanks all. I will surely post the videos. But next few days i am O/S and hence it will be after 4-5 days.
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 03:28:04 PM »
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oh!!!!!! u did it again!!!!
this was my dream project!!!!!

would love to see ur more comments, experience building it!!!
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 03:51:07 PM »
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that machine looks huge for a tricopter. cant wait to see it fly. subscribed.
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 05:43:58 PM »
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another masterpiece from magic hands !  Bow
waiting for video  Smiley
good luck sir Thumbs Up
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 12:50:05 PM »
Ashta
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As anwar said it is extremely dangerous to test the Tricopter fully armed with Props. It is better to test it step by step.
Step1: Test CCPM 120 Degress mixing, working correctly
Step2: Check all Gyros working correctly.
Step3: Motor Bell balancing
Step4: Propeller balancing
Step5: Try flying and adjust the Gyro gain.

From step1 to step3, We can test it by replacing the motors with Servos. Detailed procedures can be found at:
http://www.rcexplorer.se/page14/triguide/triguide.html
Here is a video of step1.


thanks


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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2010, 01:20:00 PM »
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Best of luck with your tri-copter Ashta sir.. Looks really good.. Hopefully i'll build a similar one some day Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2010, 01:30:58 PM »
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Thank you all for the wishes. i am o/s for few days will be back after 3-4 days.
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2010, 11:20:16 PM »
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any updates?
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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2010, 11:29:12 PM »
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Ashta Sir Bow Bow Bow
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 08:05:27 AM »
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Brilliant Ashta sir. Salute
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2010, 12:02:59 PM »
Ashta
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Ashta Sir Bow Bow Bow
Thanks VC and Rohit,
i was out of station till today. will try to do some work this week. again whole next week i am away. sorry, to keep you waiting..
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2010, 09:26:02 PM »
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There are many fine tunings to be done and ensured before flying the Tricopter, namely,
1. The swash mixing ratio
2. The gain for Motor Gyros
3. Gain for the Yaw Srvo
4.The Throws and Exponential.
5. Balancing of Motors.
6. Balancing of Props.
7. Last but not least " Learning to fly"

here is the video of my tricopter test set up, where i have hung the tricopter on a string and fine tuning. If luck is on my side, i will post a string free video in a weeks time.

thanks for watching


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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2010, 09:58:15 PM »
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The 18-20A esc comes with connectors or only wire?
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 11:08:17 AM »
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Please do the modificatiuon in the gyros... that is very important... after 2-3 flights... the gyros will start loosing their precision... YOU NEED TO MODIFY THE GYROS...
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2010, 11:41:38 AM »
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thanks already done.
pl find the link
http://sergio.salvi.ca/2009/10/18/mystery-gyro-g401b-modifications/?src=hk



Please do the modificatiuon in the gyros... that is very important... after 2-3 flights... the gyros will start loosing their precision... YOU NEED TO MODIFY THE GYROS...
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2010, 11:54:17 AM »
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The 18-20A esc comes with connectors or only wire?
Huh?
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 12:21:04 PM »
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only wires and no connectros
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 01:40:37 PM »
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Thanks.
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 01:44:11 PM »
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Yes.. and the speed controls... kindly put them upside down. the heat sink is not getting enough air (it is on the side where there is no sticker). so that will eventually result in energy loss and decreased efficiency...
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2010, 07:18:50 PM »
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Sounds wonderful.
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2010, 08:56:12 PM »
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Just sharing what modiications i did to my tri....
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2010, 02:53:58 PM »
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Ha Iflies. Hers is a short video, from Hoskote Today. I have never flown a heli and first time flying a Tricopter.
It took off well and was flying very stable. But i was very nervous and landed it fast and that too in to a pool of water.
Kept it for drying.. Hope that nothing has gone wrong.
Oh.. what a relief. now it is only a quetsion of trials and learning.
The machine seems to be perfect.
 thanks for all.
Anam funny: The max current that my ESCs share is 4-6 Amps and at these currents they are cool
pl watch the short video
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2010, 02:56:57 PM »
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congrats Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2010, 03:09:17 PM »
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a job well done, congrats  Thumbs Up
i wonder how much flight time you can get with the 1350mAh because 6 amps is not much.
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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2010, 03:29:31 PM »
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thnks sunlike star. The min for a tricopter of this size will be 2200maH


a job well done, congrats  Thumbs Up
i wonder how much flight time you can get with the 1350mAh because 6 amps is not much.
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2010, 03:43:57 PM »
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It looks and sounds alien.But awesome stuff.
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2010, 03:51:52 PM »
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Wow well done ashta sir, really good. Salute
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2010, 04:31:32 PM »
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Wonderful!...  Clap Clap Salute
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2010, 04:40:37 PM »
Ashta
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Thanks Rohit, Izimile, Iamahuman.
thank you very much for the kind words.

ashta
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2010, 04:41:25 PM »
Ashta
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thanks santhosh. hoping to meet you in Kerals some time.

congrats Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2010, 05:24:50 PM »
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Nice and stable Thumbs Up

The trick to landing these, and even regular helis is to try to make them hover at a small height, and let gravity do its thing gradually.  Do NOT bring down the throttle stick lower than 1 or 2 clicks from the position needed to make it hover at a constant height.
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2010, 06:25:46 PM »
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Hey...!!! That is completely awesome... What is the AUW?
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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2010, 08:35:49 PM »
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Me , vikas , vinay (another vinay) and ashok were at the lake bed from 4pm to 7pm. Darn just missed i guess Sad
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« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2010, 09:11:07 PM »
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« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2010, 09:45:07 PM »
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thanks. the auw is 1.1kg

Hey...!!! That is completely awesome... What is the AUW?
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« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2010, 04:38:45 PM »
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thanks VC and all the best to u




The bar just got raised higher by a mile!  Bow Bow Bow

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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2010, 04:41:03 PM »
Ashta
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Thanks Sundaramvelar. I missed your comments, sorry. The machine seems to be very stable, though i am still to learn to fly it with confidence,
thanks a lot
ashta



Ashta Ji very interesting thread fabulous.  Clap  Clap  Clap 

I am following this intently. Eagerly awaiting more details on servos setup and mixing, gyros setup, throttle mixing and reference details.
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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2010, 04:50:52 PM »
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Please do post the radio/gyro settings you had to tweak.  That would be interesting information to many (especially gyro gain, gyro mode etc) Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2010, 05:12:58 PM »
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Dear Anwar,
I will post them.
Still i think that there is lot of scope to play around. Most of the tweaking i did by trying to fly the copter by passing a string thru the center and watching carefully. ( pl see the video i had posted)
After doing this i have not done any tuning on real flight. I should do that for more fine tuning.
Let me try to recollect.
Mine is Futabs 7C
Swash:
HR3, 120 CCPM
Aeleron= +43
Elevator=-40
Pitch= -100

For the Three Motor Gyros, the Gains are connected together to TH chanel (Ch3).
50% = Neutral
60%= 20% Gain rate mode
70%= 40% Gain rate mode
80%=60% Gain rate mode
90%=80% Gain rate mode
100%=100% Gain rate mode

I kept at aroud 93%

40%= 20% Gain Head Hold mode
30%= 40% Gain Head Hold mode
20%=60% Gain Head Hold mode
10%=80% Gain Head Hold mode

Motor Gyros are always in rate mode

For the Yaw Gyro, the gain is thru CH 5. I control it thru Switch A. On power on i keep it in rate mode and while flying i put it in Head hold mode.
Sw pos 1= +100
Sw pos2= -100
Pos 1 i keep at 50
Po 2 i keep at -39
The Pitch curve is
30.5
45
58
72
100

This is my last settings





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« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2010, 05:18:26 PM »
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So your throttle channel is reversed, it seems.  Can you post reversal information too for all channels.
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« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2010, 05:21:54 PM »
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All channels not reversed incl throttle, except rudder.
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« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2010, 05:26:45 PM »
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That is strange... normally the gain works were >50 is heading hold and <50 is rate mode.  If your gain channel is not reversed, then the earlier numbers would be in the wrong mode.  Have you verified the mode (HH vs rate) by observing the light on the gyro ?
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« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2010, 11:59:02 PM »
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Ashta Ji,

For a non heli guy what you have achieved in your first attempt on the tri-copter, “it is absolutely fantastic”.   Clap Clap Clap Clap Myself being a non heli guy many gyro settings, tweaks and mixing posted by you is difficult to understand.  I have to get onto some serious reading on heli setup and mixing.

I can but only fathom the level to which you have gone into the details of the setup of this flying beauty.  But at AUW 1.1 Kgs, seeing it fly itself is an absolute pleasure.

Guys like me would be fortunate to learn in some more details of the same in basics of the setup and even basics of the swash mixing, rate gyros, heading hold gyros, their control from radio and various radio setups for the heli mode and how the various percentages of the gain setup is affecting the flight of the Heli/tri copter.
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« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2010, 01:01:35 PM »
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surely Anwar. had spent lot of time on this and confirmed.
Pl see my Video of testing Tri with Gyros.
I first connect a speed controller and motor to Ch3 and see that the motor is turning fast when i throttle up.
Now i connect a servo instead of motor and check which direction it moves (cw/ccw) when i give throttle.
Now i connect W/o gyros and ensure proper travel of servo wrt Aeleron/ elevator inputs.
repaet them with Gyros.
The motor Gyros (3nos() gain is controlled by Ch3, Throttle.
100 is rate mode max gain
0 is Hold mode max gain. Gyro light comes on from 0 - 45.
Since i give -100 for pitch in Swash, this makes sense, is'nt it?



That is strange... normally the gain works were >50 is heading hold and <50 is rate mode.  If your gain channel is not reversed, then the earlier numbers would be in the wrong mode.  Have you verified the mode (HH vs rate) by observing the light on the gyro ?
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« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2010, 01:04:47 PM »
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Thank you very much Sundaramvelar.
I did spent quite some time reading and undrestanding. Apart from that there is not much frankly...
thanks one again.
I am again Out of sation for some time and may not be able to reply to posts.
ashta
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« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2010, 01:49:10 PM »
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Since i give -100 for pitch in Swash, this makes sense, is'nt it?

That is why it makes sense... had missed that part !  Somewhere it had to be reversed, otherwise it is always >50 that is HH mode.
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« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2010, 12:25:55 PM »
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hello,
 i have done some more work with my TRI.
1. Instead of Pine booms, i have made it with Aluminium channel, embedded with wood. Makes it much stronger and added weight of about 100 grams.
2. The yaw mechanism is more strong.
4. Made it foldable using simple clips.

Pl see the attached photos for clarity.

Also i tried to fly my tri in my garage which is only 8x 6 feet flyiable area, with aheight of about 6.2 feet. It is a challenge but worth for learning.
pl find a short video. pardon be for the poor quality, its again shot thr my crude HAT cam.

Thanking you
ashta

PC024789.jpg
Re: New Tricopter Build
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« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2010, 12:27:25 PM »
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more photos

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« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2010, 12:29:21 PM »
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more photo and video

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« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2010, 12:39:48 PM »
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Good and neat design.. Clap
There is one guy(rcexplorer) who has built a tricopter. I am a fan of this guy.You can see this and improve yours too...
http://www.rcexplorer.se/projects/tricopter/tricopter.html
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« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2010, 12:43:19 PM »
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thanks Foamybuilder. though i have gone thru that as part of my extensive reading before i attempted this. thank you
ashta
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« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2010, 07:06:52 PM »
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Brilliant Ashta Sir. Salute Salute Clap Clap
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« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2010, 07:40:35 PM »
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Looks like you have got the hang of heli hovering Thumbs Up
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« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2010, 08:50:12 PM »
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Wow!!!.. That thing is nice and stable! Congratulations Ashta sir!
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« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2010, 12:19:12 PM »
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Thanks Rohit

Brilliant Ashta Sir. Salute Salute Clap Clap
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« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2010, 12:21:32 PM »
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Oh no Anwar.. still bacha.. lot to learn
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« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2010, 12:22:06 PM »
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Thanks Medicineman
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« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2010, 06:06:20 PM »
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Slow.......ly learning to fly this.
Thank you for watching.
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« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2010, 06:16:17 PM »
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looks like you are now enjoying the fruits of labour.  Clap
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« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2010, 06:27:55 PM »
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Ashta bhai - Nice flight Thumbs Up

Looks like you should do some tweaking of the pitch curve, so that the landings can be more gradual.
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« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2010, 07:11:50 PM »
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Awesome stability.  Salute Salute Magnificient Ashta sir  Thumbs Up  Thumbs Up
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« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2010, 10:05:07 AM »
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thanks sunlikestar. Yes i do.. esp there are many other possibilities here like KK copter Wii etc... i think that there is lot of scope here..
thanks once again..


looks like you are now enjoying the fruits of labour.  Clap

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« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2010, 10:05:52 AM »
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Thanks Rohit..
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« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2010, 10:07:22 AM »
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thanks Anwar... Good idea.. i will try this. Thanks for the Tips..



Ashta bhai - Nice flight Thumbs Up

Looks like you should do some tweaking of the pitch curve, so that the landings can be more gradual.
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« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2010, 03:24:16 PM »
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Hello Ashta sir, looks like you have switched your allegiance from planes to copters  Smiley .. Thats a really cool 'Flying object' you have made  Grin .. I think you are not seen in jakkur these days? any plans to come to jakkur in coming weeks? hope to catch up with you and all your new scratch builds some time.

cheers
Koushik
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« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2010, 06:29:36 PM »
Ashta
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Dear kaushik,
good evening... did not do any other scratch builds other than this copter which took lot of my time, mainly reading and getting a hang of this.. still far away from learning to fly... Old is not gold for learning.....
see u this sunday
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« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2010, 02:52:43 PM »
Ashta
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1. A low voltage alarm is a must for Tri/Multi copters since there is no wing and there for lift. Hence, once the battery is empty the Tri can come down and crash like a stone.
2. It is always better to Power on the recievers and the Gyro first and stabilise them before giving Power to the EScs. This is because some of the ESCs need to see a valid PPM signal for a good healthy Power on. Hence BEC is a good idea.
3. In a SIGNGUY TRICOPTER, the gain of three motor gyros are combined and given to throttle channel. It is a good idea to have aconnector to do it on board.

all the above requirements are obtained in the given cct attached. This whole cct costs lesss than rs40.00
This is not my cct. i have gathered it from several places.
I have wired this on a proto board on my TRICOPTER and it works very well.
Sharing the Photo and the cct.
thanks
ashta

* BEC-LOW VOL ALRM-GAIN GYRO CCT.pdf (78.2 KB - downloaded 1234 times.)
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« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2010, 03:51:02 PM »
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Nice !

So a single battery is used, for the BEC also ?

When I was messing with the quad, I also realized that powering up the gyros first is important, but I did it with an external BEC and a separate 2s receiver lipo.
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« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2010, 04:12:49 PM »
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So a single battery is used, for the BEC also ?
yes Anwar. The same 3 cell Battery's balancing plug is used to power on the RCVR and the Gyros. Once the Light on the Gyros is stable ( indicating that they are initialised and armed), then u connect the main Connector of the battery to the Escs. Each power on requires throttle calibration.. so keet the throttle channel full before power on.




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« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2010, 07:03:48 PM »
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all the above requirements are obtained in the given cct attached.

The Circuit diagram for the voltage alarm would be fantastic.
I see you are using the servo connector to connect the Lipo balance lines to the board. JST-XH male/Female (including 90 degree connectors) are available in SP Road by the name of 'RMC' connector. Arihant Electronics on the main road (near the temples) have good quality ones.
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« Reply #80 on: December 12, 2010, 12:21:27 AM »
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The Circuit diagram for the voltage alarm would be fantastic.

Already posted above...

http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/new-tricopter-build/?action=dlattach;attach=628384

PS: That reminds me... I have to put a bigger icon for PDF attachments.
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« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2010, 11:02:18 AM »
Ashta
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probabaly u missed the cct diagram i had attached as a PDF file in my post. The very idea of my post was to share this.
I am using the same Balance connector matching male connector (available form SP road) to Tap the 12V from the balance connector of the Lipo. This is fed to the "Low volatage alarm" and BEC circuits.
hope this is clear.
ashta
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« Reply #82 on: January 20, 2011, 03:04:46 PM »
Ashta
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Not able to fly for many weekends.

Just could try my TRI, two days back. Progressing inch by inch.. but very stable platform..

here is a short video.


thanks.
ashta
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« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2011, 03:15:41 PM »
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Wow rock stable ashta sir  Salute Salute. BTW how susceptible is it to winds.
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« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2011, 04:48:44 PM »
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Man.. That thing is stable! Ashta sir, how much flight time does it give? ( Damn.. I sound like a Maruti Suziki ad don't I...  Kitna deti hai? Giggle )
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« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2011, 04:50:13 PM »
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LOL! I just remembered the Maruti Add before I could read your complete quote!!
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« Reply #86 on: January 22, 2011, 09:41:31 AM »
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Thanks rohit. sorry for the late reply.
I have tried this in moderate winds w/o problems. 10 -15 KM/hour i suppose.




Wow rock stable ashta sir  Salute Salute. BTW how susceptible is it to winds.
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« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2011, 09:45:04 AM »
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i use two type of batteries.
1. 2200mah,3cell= gives me 10-12 mins
2. 4400mah,3cell= gives me 20 mins
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« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2011, 10:34:51 AM »
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Ashta Sir's creations, as far as I am concerned, serve one major purpose. They make me feel so mediocre and my efforts seems so inadequate. Seriously.

Maestro! Bow Bow Bow
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« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2011, 12:16:45 PM »
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dear vc,
not at all.... The efforts that you are doing and the services that u provide (coaching IIT students..) are remarkable. Waiiting to see your hovercraft in full swing..
best regards
ashta

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« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2011, 08:30:22 AM »
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Hello Ashta sir; i want to build a tricopter as a final year project what home work did u do before the actual build. any suggestions on what books to read?
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« Reply #91 on: February 01, 2011, 02:38:23 PM »
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Hello Ashta sir; i want to build a tricopter as a final year project what home work did u do before the actual build. any suggestions on what books to read?
hi arhun,
sorry for the late reply. I was out of station.
u can see all the posts here. it is a long read...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1142429

i got all the information from the above posts


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« Reply #92 on: February 01, 2011, 03:39:26 PM »
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Thanks a lot  Bow
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« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2012, 04:27:33 PM »
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Then got 1.5 mm FRC sheet for the frame.
Where did you source these sheets from?
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« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2012, 05:51:13 PM »
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conatct pcb vendors in pune
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« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2012, 05:55:54 PM »
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will try that, thanks.
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« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2012, 06:03:09 PM »
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Hello Ashta sir.
I am currently building a quad with a MultiWii CRIUS board. I am using aluminium square pipes. Did you come across any FRC sheet sellers ONLINE? Thanks.

Vineet
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« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2012, 11:19:05 AM »
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no vineet, i got it from a local PCB vendor
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« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2014, 08:12:27 PM »
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where did you order all the parts from , ashta ji ?
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