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« on: November 18, 2012, 08:52:12 PM »
lastRites
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I bought a q450 frame and fitted it with the following:
D2822/17 motors which turned out to be quite a bit underpowered so overpropped them to 10x6
Turnigy nanotech 2.6Ah
Hobby King 20A ESC 3A UBEC (F20A) ESCs
Hk Multirotor control board v2.1

First I flashed the board with kapteinkuk QuadControl V4.7 but the board simply would not arm. Then I flashed it with XXcontrol_KR_XCopter_v2_5. It could be armed then but none of the calibration methods worked (throttle, stick centering etc). I tried to calibrate the escs individually with the transmitter but they did not go into the programming mode. So I just hooked the escs up with the board and made sure that the gyros were correct. But when I tried to lift off the quad tended to rotate ccw and roll to the left. I had to apply about 30% sub-trim to both the roll and pitch axes to just to able to lift off. I think the culprit is the back right esc or motor(which gets very hot). The other motors just warm up a bit.
I have checked my transmitter with other escs and with the t6a software but everything checks out.. Is there any well documented(clearly explained Tongue) and used firmware that I can flash my quad with? I am a completete noob and this is my first time flying anything..
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »
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D2822/17 motors which turned out to be quite a bit underpowered so overpropped them to 10x6
...
...
Hobby King 20A ESC 3A UBEC (F20A) ESCs

Those two things above as a combination screams out that you are asking for trouble.  When you increase prop pitch/dia, you will use up more amps, and if you ESC is not rated for the increased load/current, then funny (and expensive) surprises will follow Sad
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 09:31:04 PM »
lastRites
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No no I anticipated that I may have some prob with the motors so I made sure that the escs were upto the task. I have asked around(both on rcgroups and here) and found that these motors draw at max 12A when used with 10inch props. So that is not an issue(The escs remain at room temperature even at full throttle).
I am attaching a pic with the rouge motor circled. After I turn off the the throttle this motor comes to rest immidiately while the others continue spinning.

553734_303966613046258_922018134_n.jpg
Re: Quad blues
* 553734_303966613046258_922018134_n.jpg (37.49 KB, 640x480 - viewed 258 times.)
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That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 09:37:24 PM »
anwar
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If you are using this motor, then the initially recommended props are much smaller.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18967__D2822_17_Brushless_Outrunner_1100kv.html

The only reference in the discussion is 12A using a 10x4.5 prop.  You would use even higher current when you use 10x6. Typically people allow a 20% margin on maximum rated current on ESCs, so you are already down to 16A usable on those ESCs.  With a 10x6 prop, it is pretty much sure that you are walking a thin line.

Anyways, this is one angle on the issue. If you had bad bearings on the motor or something like that, then that is an all another issue.  Do you have spares to experiment with ?   One lesson I learnt quickly in working with quads is to order 5 of everything instead of 4 ! Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 09:44:55 PM »
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No I don't have any spares because I ran out of money Tongue
I have checked all the motors (out of circuit). they seem identical..
Maybe somehow the brake function got turned on one of the escs..
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 09:52:15 PM »
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This is related to the firmware issue. I also faced a similar kind of problem and could rectify it by flashing the board with a custom written firmware. ( Done by one of my friend Sujith ).

Forward me your email id so that I pass you the firmware.

Sai Krishna
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 09:58:04 PM »
lastRites
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Thanks! I have sent you a pm but I need to make sure my hardware is devoid of problems first Tongue
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It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic,
Of all things physical and metaphysical,
Of all things human and all things super-human,
Of all true manifestations of the head,
Of the heart, of the soul,
That the life is recognizable in its expression,
That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 10:00:17 PM »
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Email sent. Flash the firmware and check if all the motors are working in sync.

Good luck

Sai Krishna
www.rcbharat.com
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 10:11:17 PM »
lastRites
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A short clip. All I was trying to do is to get it to hover..
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That the life is recognizable in its expression,
That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 10:17:26 PM »
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Try using some landing gear because you are landing hard and may damage the bearings of the motors.

Is this your first build?#
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 10:22:50 PM »
lastRites
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Yup, my first build. Since I am used to piloting airboats, my first instinct is to cut the throttle, so the hard landings. I am going to attach some foam to the underside next time.
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It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic,
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Of all things human and all things super-human,
Of all true manifestations of the head,
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That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 12:17:08 PM »
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Well in my view, its either faulty ESC and/or Motor did you try run motor/esc combo which is causing the problem directly connecting to the throttle channel??? What i mean is remove the ESC connection from the board and connect it to the receivers throttle channel and test it?? whether it gives same problem or not.

Other TS steps can be interchanging the problematic motor/esc with others. You dont shift the position but just switch ESC connector on the HK board, then start the board arm it and give some throttle (dont lift it as motors are not in correct position it might cause some damage) then test that motor/esc combo... Let me know how it went
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 12:25:47 PM »
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I have tested it bypassing the fc but then I could not compare it with the the other motors.. I will test it again when I get the props. There is no point in running the motors without the prop, is there?
On the other hand, The manual to these escs(F20A) do not have throttle calibration listed. So, if I flash them simonk will i then get throttle calibration?
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It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic,
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That the life is recognizable in its expression,
That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 12:37:10 PM »
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There is throttle calibration bro.. The first set of beeps A-A-A-A this is for throttle calibration. Dont flash them with simonk cos F20 are so good that they good nice performance without flashing. Keep that as very last option, and yes there is not point in running motors without prop.

In such condition the issue would be either one of the following:

1. ESC/motor combo
2. Only ESC
3. Only Motor
4. The FW

IMO issue with FW is least possible cause the other motors are working fine.
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 12:50:27 PM »
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The main problem is that when I want to get into the programming mode(turning tx on with the throttle at high) the esc beeps "A-A-A-A" continuously or it does not beep at all(all four). First I thought that there was something wrong with the Tx but when I checked the throws with T6A software, it was fine(I can program a red brick esc with this tx too). So I think something might be off with this batch of escs..
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It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic,
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Of all things human and all things super-human,
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That the life is recognizable in its expression,
That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 12:51:12 PM »
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I did the above with only esc and rx connected.
I am using these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15202
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 12:56:24 PM »
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Yes these are the ESC which i am using, one of the best for the multirotors....
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 01:07:55 PM »
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Thats why I got them Tongue I will get back to this topic when I get the props. But a warning about the motors that I used:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18967
I have asked around and it seems most people who have used this motor on 3s(including me) think that 7x4 props do not do this motor justice. Atleast an 8x4 should be used to get any decent performance. I myself ran this on 10x6(Overkill Tongue). Runs warms at half throttle but no problems so far.
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It is the pervading law of all things organic and inorganic,
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Of all true manifestations of the head,
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That the life is recognizable in its expression,
That form ever follows function. This is the law.
 

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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 01:32:24 PM »
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@Lastrites, What's the All-Up-Weight of your Quad? With Battery and without.  
What battery pack are your using?  2S or 3S and what's it's weight.

I use 700 Kv motors which turns 10x4.7 props.  I believe I can go upto 12" props comfortably but never tried it.

You motors are rated at 1100 rpm so you need to keep your quad weight low. (between 600 - 800 gms AUW)
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 03:36:36 PM »
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@lastRites

From what I can gather you have more than one problem.
#1 Only one of the motors getting heated up.

When only one motor is getting heated up, it's either a bad motor (check the bearings by rotating the motor with hand - is it spinning as freely as others? Is the protrusion of the shaft which extends a fraction of an mm below the stator touching the frame below it? This is the case with certain motors like dt700s Tongue ) OR a bad ESC. Did you accidentally change the ESC timing (while calibrating the throttle)? If yes, this is the culprit. Download F20A's manual and use stick combinations to correct it or buy an ESC programmer.

#2 Unwanted drift.

You can control this by using trims on your Tx. Also fiddle with the PIDs on the FC side. Tuning is very important.
Drift is also caused by poorly balanced props, prop adapters and motors. Balancing of these is a MUST for multirotors.

(a)Dont flash them with simonk cos F20 are so good that they good nice performance without flashing.

(b) Keep that as very last option

I disagree with (a). Smiley But (b) is very true.

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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 03:42:24 PM »
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I wish we had a Perfect Quad! 
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 03:43:06 PM »
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A perfect quad is always YET TO BE MADE......! ROFL
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 03:45:08 PM »
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did you guys see the crash I had yesterday:

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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 03:48:27 PM »
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I'm just returning from that video... sorry about it... reworking must be painful..
Do you suspect the CC3D in anyway? Or just a bad solder joint? Since it seems (from the video) only one or two of the motors stopped during flight because the quad fell down tilted to one side...
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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 03:58:13 PM »
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believe me I am scratching my head over this.  for the last 2 days I flew it indoors and also outdoors without any issues,  but apparently it seems that flat/pancake motors have some timing issues with simon flashed esc's.  Do a search and you'll find it all over in the Quad space.  Since I use these ECS (F-30) It could have been an issue.  The problem is,,,with every crash happening to me, it's breaking my moral.  Gone are those days when I was roaring with confidence.  Can you imagine I used to fly over rooftops over a radius of over 100 - 200 feet. These days I am soooo scared to fly out of the boundary of my roof top and for good reasons.  I don't think I can rule out the CC3D.  But only continuous tests can reveal what actually happened. 
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