RC India

Hi Guys ,
I have been supplying motors , props ,spares for college students making QUAD rotors recently .

Any one made it sucessfully in India  ?

I found this thread  and layout on rc groups  thought I will post it but its beyond my understanding  :o

May be some of the techos might find it interesting

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614041

Sai

not quad rotor but i use some kind of the same setup for my twin rotor v22

E.V.Subramanian

do we need to use mixers  ;D even if our tx is capable of mixing the channels  :argue:

can't we just mix the channels from tx

http://www.rcindia.org/beginners-zone/more-than-4channel-in-a-transmitter/msg14226/#msg14226

Tried the combination  of V tail Mixers  and Gyros to see if the concept works with  some Brushless  Motors I had , the elevator throttle  segment works   will shift the same 2 motors to the Aileron rudder side  some day as time permits  and check it out .
I am trying these motors  without an airframe only checking if the system works , if it does then fitting on to an airframe should not be  a major problem.

Hope to keep  the updates coming .

sai

if we create a quadrotor with each arm 25 cm from the centre which is made of balsa and with the following electronics,will it work?

electronics to be used:-

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6293&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_1800mAh_3S1P_20C x4 for powering the motors

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4852&Product_Name=TowerPro_BM2408-21T_/_18A_BEC_/_1047_Prop_Combo x4

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=10113 x3 as a gyro

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5247 as a prop

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5249 -for counter rotating prop

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4170 x3 as a v-tail mixer

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3735 as bec

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6519&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_1300mAh_2S1P_15-25C this for powering the bec

and a 6ch reciever

will this work???

can we use 2 mixers and use 1 mixing from the tx?

The previous answer stands.  How will you get the output of the gyros that are on the plane, back into the TX which is in your hands to be mixed ?  Remember that the mixing in the TX is of the stick positions.

ok what abt the stuff that i posted...can it be used.....?????????????

Ankur - Building such an aircraft is all about experimentation.  People will be hesitant to say YES or NO to your question, unless they have built one and flown it themselves.  Even in that case, one person's success may not directly translate to someone else's success due to changes in material used, difference in final AUW etc.

So you have a design that Sai posted, and it is upto the individuals to experiment.  For example, the tricopter I saw on our field was built very light, and all 3 motors were driven from a single lipo, and there was no separate BEC.  So when you post such a "bill of materials" (fancy term for list of items you need to accomplish something ;)), people will really be worried about getting involved (at least that is what I honestly felt when I initially saw your post).

Think about simplifying everything, and have fun with the experimentation.  The big concern is the main  power system (motor/ESC/prop) selection, and it looks like you are OK on that part.

OK actually i plan to build one in my summer holidays if i gather enough fund for that...
anyways thankx.

have put all the things in one place for quick access. :salute: :salute:

http://pankajwasv.blogspot.com/

all the GYAN you need to build a quad rotor ,rest here are senior members(VC sir,RAO sir,anwar bhai,sahil bhai),you can always take help. {:)} {:)}

just wondering how can we counter rotate brushless motors [ like brushed ones can be reversed by reversing the polarity ]
since we need to use 2 conter rotating props then we need to counter rotate the motors too[or the net thrust will be zero as both set of props will swinging in same direction and they will will push/pull air in opposite directions hence cancelling each others thrust]
hence i arrived to this question....

-Ankur

by using CCW/CW propellers.This way they can cancel each others torque and remain stable.

what are ccw/cw props??
secondly as per the mixing diagram posted by mr.sai it is necessary to counter rotate two motors so how can we counter rotate them??

CW-Clockwise
CCW- Counter Clock wise

Quads use props in counter-rotating pairs. Most common normally used props on models are CCW rotation, also called tractor props. When looking at the front of the CCW rotating prop the air is propelled behind it. The common orientation is the front and rear using the CCW props and the left and right using the CW, or pusher props. This may or may not be reversible, i.e., CW props on front and rear and CCW props on left and right, in your setup utility depending on the version of quad you fly. If the front, rear, left right prop orientation is not selectable via the setup application, then the props must be mounted the way the flight control board requires them or the quad will not fly and possibly will flip when throttle is applied. The CCW(tractor)+CW(pusher) prop sets are not commonly available, but online stores do have them.

Recommended props:
--APC1238: ~$8pair. 18.7g.
--APC1365: ~$12pair. 26g.
--APC1447: ~$12pair. 25g.

ok i have already gone through them and  i know it
my question is that is just putting these props on a bl motor sufficient?
i don't think it is
i think we will need to turn the motors also in the opposite direction and this is my question-how to do it[turn it in opp. direction]??

For a brushless motor, just interchange any 2 of the 3 wires. But to get the desired effect, you will also have to mount two of the motors upside down, I think.

I dont think you would need turn the motor in opp direction.The CW/CCW props would do the work i guess..

if you mount the the 2 motor upside down then you will get longer battery life.If you rotate the motor in opposite of its natural roation (CW/CCW) your battery life would suffer.Some member of rcgroup posted it a while back.Cant find the thread.
But i still think if we use CW/CCW props we wont need to rotate the motors in opposite direction.Correct me if am wrong.

I was talking about achieving the same results using the same type of props (instead of having both CW/CCW).

If we use same props for all the motors and rotate 2 motors in opposite direction.Then battery life might suffer.Read it in rcgroups.
So the best way would be to put 2 motors in upside down as you pointed already.

Let us say we use same type of props with all motors pointing upwards (so they are all pushing air downwards).  Now if we rotate the props on two of them in the opposite direction, those two will push air in the opposite direction (which is upwards), which defeats the design ! This is what drives the "two motors mounted upside down" setup :headscratch:

You can see it in action here, in the link Sai posted initially itself : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6596903&postcount=4

I am planning to build one soon, will know better after that !  Got all the parts today, it is only a matter of time now (so many things to build) :)

Brushed motors have a preferred direction because the commutation timing is set mechanically. I don't see how brushless motors have this issue. Will be interested in the link if you can find it again.

Hi
  For the quadrotor we need 2 tractor and 2 pusher propellers. rotor.co.in is good source to get them, but they also have low stock. So i'm not getting 8*6 or 9 inch pusher propellers there.. Any other sources in India?

If you can't find them (and none of the LHSes here responded to your availability check), get the 3 blade props from Hobbycity.  This is the route I went with.

A hexacopter cousin (reported by Sahil) : http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/hexacopter/

Here is one heck of an aggressive quad !  :bow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM

Wow man thats awesome. Its a super quadrotor.

These guys are not resting :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iHZKMDvdNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPvGxIBt3Hs

Even more...

http://www.walyou.com/blog/2010/07/13/cooperative-grasping-and-transport-using-quadcopters/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBsJwapanWI

This video was sent to me by someone. It's nice to see an Indian name featuring in the design team.

Cheers!

VC

It is was eye opener in terms of quad capabilities (for me). 

This is AWESOME!!!  :o :o :o:salute: :salute: {:)} {:)} {:)} :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Hello all,

I made the first drawing, the second one is a tricopter, but uses almost the same electricals, found the second from a RC forum, it clears things out!

Regards,

Dorwin

Hi, i am searching for the complete details in making a quadrotor, and have read almost many of ur comments regarding the topic, can u please suggest me which motor to be selected and i there any substitute instead of Gyro, because it will be costing more.

If you read the quad related threads here, you will realize that motor selection depends on the weight (which may be related to the size) of the quad you are building.  One thing to note is that a little higher KV motors with smaller props work better than the other way around, and 2 blade props are better than 3 blade props.

There are no substitutes to gyros, they are basic requirement for stability.  You can have one 3-axis gyro instead of 3 single axis ones, but cost wise they end up being similar.

I hope you have read about the mixer issues in the build thread.

Hello Anwar uncle why do you say so...
          "2 blade props are better than 3 blade props."

Many people have reported that 3 blade props cause more vibration then 2 blade ones.  Vibration tends to overload the gyros.

hey vc ...i want make a quadrotor ..and i have not much idea how to make can u please help me...that how much cost in dis project...

hi
   i wnna kno hw to make dis quad rotor...tel me d full details nd materials i need fo makin dis!!
nd temme hw much it l cost fo makin.. mail to ma id - ukvinoth@gmail.com

I have a few Ardu IMU Boards ( http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/arduimu-quadcopter ) apart  from the other stuff needed for a quad .
E mail : rcforallin@gmail.com   for details .

I don't know of other experiences but 3 blade Rotating / Counter rotating paired props have worked well on the Quad's developed by IITM , Anna University etc. They  buy these from us for use on their Quad's .
In fact the IIT M quad  that won the 2nd place at the DRDO competition last year used  2 pairs of Rotating and Counter rotating of GWS 9050


Sai

hello sai ,
3b gws does not give good efficiency, ant it is not recommended for quad , go for 2b  slowflyer prop for better and best performance

i know what iitm people did with the quad.. its actually MK Germany ( :giggle:) its not Indian made quad , i think MIT people have did some research on quad controller , i met them at acmee 2010 international machine tools and auto components exhibition , they gave demo on their quad which was damn stable in the air ,

and Sai , the first post in this thread that you made is wrong information please remove it ,,
the mixer is available in your shop is gws mixer, which you cannot be used for it actually

i too made a quadcontorller of my own , which is very quite use full for fpv and rpv, not only quad ,tri and mulit.. right now im doing research on quad stability based on image processing 

Hello sai,
regarding Ardu Imu

i have one, i did with arduimu

the thing i found is
1. lil diff in tuning pid  >:(
2. pid differs with payload  ???
3. not good for outdoor flight :banghead:
4. very nice if you tune it for exact  pid {:)}
5. every time you have to connect it to pc to change pid  :banghead:
6. serial input is needed ???

its not  ok for beginners and non technical people more over its open source  >:(
i did with 72 normal Rx converted in to serial .. now im gonna try with corona 2.4g 

Here is all another dimension !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqip_0Vjec

Hey anwar, Hi. I'm a final year student in electronics. We are planning to go for a UAV as major project. But none of us in the group have any good idea about the technology. yeah though i started to search on it and came across this here. Can you please help me on the same topic that how can we implement one of our's. All sort of basics on UAV's basically the idea with me is to have 4 rotors with all types of move. Please mail me on rathore.vineet14@gmail.com ..

Vineet - Welcome to RC India :)

You will see many quad rotor discussions here.  There are people here who have done it, and provide professional help.  Like these :

http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/quadrotor-rtf-sale/
http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/quad-rotor-2904/ 

I would suggest that you spend some time using the SEARCH feature of RC India, and then contact one of the resources such as the one I mentioned.

all,

i started a thread in the forum called quad rotor.. in that many asked me for the video .. just before i made a setup for a student with my controller .. pls comment on my video ..  first flight of my controller with out any tuning .. she will be rock solid in the air with fine tuning ..

happy diwali


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMXRfPuz2o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMXRfPuz2o)

Awesome!!

I am an engg. student from Andhra pradesh. I want to make a remote controlled "Quadrotor" model for a project. can anybody tell me the basic requirements and the cost i must invest to complete the project.

Also please suggest a hobby shop in Andhra pradesh to buy the stuff.

Hi
I am Magesh
I am doing a quadrotor for my project

Has anyone succeeded in making a quadrotor without controller and programming
I m trying achieve stabilization only through Gyros and Mixing as per the diagram given in this first post...

I am using a GWS PG-03 gyro

Regards
Magesh

http://www.diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/quadrotor-ball-juggling-a

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8O5RBcwmjY

OMG.. what next??? these guys should now start moving the cameras on-board.

A nice quad demo video... see the unique launch and what seems to be "return to home" starting at 2:40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFCQrzMUsTs

my name is ashta and i am also from bangalore. my tel no is 9448073127.

hre is the projcet i did using gyros.


http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/new-tricopter-build/
and the original link
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1142429

Just came across this... sounds like a good deal.  Don't know much about goodluckbuy.com though.

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/x525-v3-quadcoptor-friber-glass-folding-arf-set-kkmulticopter.html

GoodLuckBuy.com :(  At least they got the name right, seems like you do need some of that luck !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_TjC44xlA

Awesomeness !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4

Rightly said Awesomeness  :hatsoff:  :hatsoff:

can any one plz notify me about the existing features of a quad copter.....plz

can anybody suggest me what are the precautions while flying quad copter?????

hi all i m new in this site...plz help me to make a quad rotor helicopter roboat...

Hi Rahul, welcome to RCI!
Just type 'quad rotor' in the search box and you'll get loads of info.
Here's a quadrotor build thread:
http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/quadrotor-build-thread/

http://allthingsd.com/20120229/a-ted-view-of-the-future-hypersonic-gliders-liquid-batteries-and-flying-robots/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_sUeGC-8dyk

This video's awesome.. thanks sir great video...

Wow...

how did they do it?

Is there one pilot per quad or is it all pre- programmed with Mission Planner ?

Any ways its really great.

Thank you,
Atul

@Atul

They use a very Costly VICON motion capture camera system which locates all the quads in 3D space (Flying Arena) the central controller then uses this visual info as Feedback and generate commands to move the Quads in a predefined path.

So this is the source of awesome quad videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ErEBkj_3PY

http://www.ted.com/talks/vijay_kumar_robots_that_fly_and_cooperate.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SNPJMk2fgJU

Thanx Ayush

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/27/3120590/kmel-quadrocopter-light-show-cannes

http://kmelrobotics.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseTX_rW3uM&feature=player_embedded

 {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} {:)} :thumbsup:

This is reckless... DON'T.. DO.. IT :thumbsdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=45DTY0yo6-A

Ankur,I am a customer of Hobbyking,a very fond one though,But the parts you mentioned will not be successful for a quad.Go on to hobbyking and search in the multirotors section for a good multirotor control board like this one- HobbyKing Multi-Rotor Control Board V2.1 (Atmega168PA).Use brushless motors (Outrunners)for thrust like this one-FC 28-22 Brushless Outrunner 1200kv.Use any 6ch Tx/Rx from HK.Use these ESC's-Hobbyking SS Series 15-18A ESC.These have the BEC confi. included.The props will be -1047SF Combo (1047SF & R1047SF) (3 Standard & 3 Counter Rotating Per Bag) which you can find in the props section.The battery should be-Turnigy 3000mAh 3S 20C Lipo Pack.Dont forget to buy the charger for the lipo.This one is the best-Turnigy balancer & Charger 2S-3S.If you have any more questions ,then you can reply to me at any time.Hope this helps!

i am new to quad rotors i got APM 2.5.but one of my ESC is shorted can i use another  company ESC along with three previous ESC's please help me

It is not advised to use different ESCs as they might have different timings. So there is a possibility that your quad will not behave properly.
However if you have to use different ESCs then atleast make sure to calibrate them before using.

thank u

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ol8c9bdp7YI

I AM INTERESTED!!

I have a question can we fit an 10" prop on a quad with an motor to motor distance of about 550mm.

YES

Thanks

nitesh no offence, but what was that question for?
motor to motor distance = 550 mm
prop size=10"
now if you have 2 motors, each with a prop on it, then you should have a little more than 10" distance between 2 motors
( 2* radius of a prop, because you have 2 halves of a prop between them.)
10" to mm = 250 mm
 so there is 550-250 = 300 mm or 30 cm between props.

was that too hard? :P

For A micro quad is 2.5" difference from prop to prop enough or we need more.