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« on: December 16, 2010, 12:23:50 AM »
sundaram
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Dear  RCindia Members,

 I was doing some serious digging on this field for long range FPV in various other forums. was contemplating one option i.e. replace the stock antenna with a high gain antenna using a pig tail SMA connector.

Say if I replace the stock antenna with a omni directional 18dbi antenna using small pig tail photo graphs attached below.

 One great advantage of using a SMA connector is that you can add a 2.4 ghz amplifier say 500 mw like the one in attached photograph in series before the high gain antenna.

I do not want to fry my Radio so thought I should seek advice of more experienced members in this field.

 Would request more experienced members in this field or members who have come across this to pitch in and help. Help Me
  Help Me

IMG_20101215_234446.jpg
Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 06:26:05 PM »
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This would require someone close to RF design issues to answer.

I have seen at least one case where a member of this forum used a high-gain D-Link WiFi antenna (some what like the one in the picture) on his spektrumized JR radio with good results.
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2010, 06:50:58 PM »
sundaram
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The Omni directional 18dbi antenna has SMA connector which can been directly screwed on to the  SMA Pig tail. it has a foldable and rotatable base same like rubber ducky stock antenna. It is just four times longer than the stock antenna.

 It is a 2.4Ghz antenna, Impedence is 50 ohms and max allowed RF wattage is 1 watts.

I was wondering what should be the impedance of Radio antenna? and what is the RF wattage of radio? is it 10mw or 100mw ?
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 07:13:43 PM »
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has no one has even thought of doing this?
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 08:57:21 PM »
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This topic is related... http://www.rcindia.org/radios-and-receivers/enhancing-range-of-radio-72-mhz/
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 11:59:42 PM »
sundaram
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Some serious hacks on this lines here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=833260
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 05:09:13 PM »
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Found this relatively cheap ($60) 1Watt 2.4G Amplifier at DealXtreme

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/2-4ghz-1000mw-1w-wireless-ultra-range-extender-for-wifi-wlan-access-points-ap-and-routers-19616#open full view

It is meant to extend the Wifi router and directly take input from the feeder line which feeds the default Wifi antenna. since most of 2.4G RC TX have antenna with similar impedance to those of Wifi Router (evident from size/lading coil), there is high possibility that the integration would be smooth and you wont find issues like standing waves and antenna mis matching.

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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2011, 07:08:17 PM »
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I think extending range with module would be better and you can get upto 25KM Range (LOS).
So, your 2.4GHz PCB would be of no require. But the receiver has to be matched. A few days before, I have seen this here. Just searching and add the reference link here.

Thanks
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2011, 10:58:16 PM »
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Found this relatively cheap ($60) 1Watt 2.4G Amplifier at DealXtreme

Thanks Ujjwana

This looks very promising and economical too as the 500mw amplifier posted as photo is available for Rs 5500/- in ebay.in

How is the feedback on buying from dealsextreame

Thanks @ Kalyan. But is it not desirable to leave the 2.4 Ghz Tx PCB in the radio and build on that so that when you are not flying Long range FPV, Just remove the addon Amp and antenna and replace with rubber ducky for regular flying.
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 01:49:00 AM »
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Kalyan,
Though not much tested, the AMP method would be more straight forward, enjoying more power along with reliability of OEM encoding and Receivers. All you would need is the AMP and you can use all your receivers, like Sunderam sir says, you can switch between normal and high power mode at will.

Sumderam sir,
DealX is genuine shop but they have bad reputation for indefinite delays in shipping. Make sure you spend extra $2-$3 and add 'Tracking' option in the checkout page.

Do research more before buying it as I have myself not tried the Amplifier.
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2011, 02:27:47 AM »
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Thanks will do. I have seen a similar 1 watts amps being tried on rcgroups.

So definitely worth a try as I already have the pig tail and 18dbi omni directional rubber ducky. Only thing left was the amp.

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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 10:57:53 PM »
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Today received the 2.4 Ghz 1 watts amplifier from Rangevideo.com. It was for only $45 but with EMS of $25 for sure delivery along with many other products, proportionately it adds up $5-10 for shipping. At say $55 good buy. It came with the antenna, Pig tail SMA to Amp connecting cable.

http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=245
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »
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Some Photographs of the Booster Amp which I have bought.

booster5.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 04:13:48 PM »
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This Project of mine was extremely delayed basically due to two reasons.

Reason one I did not have the required UBEC for powering up the Booster RF 2.4 Ghz AMP from the transmitter Battery Pack. Second reason was that I was unable decide, as to which Radio I should pop open for this modification.

The 6EX with me was already modified for 900MHz Micro flying and had the 900 Mhz module inside. The question was between 7C and 10CHG. I was not able to get myself to risk attempting to modify the new 10CHG though that was what I wanted in the first place for future utility.

Decision was made easier for me by coincidence and bad luck, two weeks back when I dropped  the 10CHG, though from only 1 ft height only on the cemented hard floor. Bad luck for me it landed on the toggle switches on to one side and one of them, lever broke and other is bent and can break any time.   Angry Cry

Lucky for me I could find the Toggle Switch for me from ebay.com. Ordered two sets of all types in case of future breakages also Giggle. today the first set landed safe.

Since I have to open the 10CHG and do all the repair work now I think I will strap the Booster to the 10CHG itself.

IMG_20110713_153032.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 04:24:10 PM »
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Since this Booster amp requires a 5V 2 Amps Power supply, I have been able to obtain a 5V UBEC of Turnigy from HK. Which has also landed safe with other components. Now this project is good to go for me.

ube5A.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 04:57:40 PM »
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I have been able to obtain a 5V UBEC of Turnigy from HK.

The Voltage specification on Rangevideo site says 6V.
Since you would be using the Tx Battery to power the AMP, I would recommend to use a Buck-Boost DC-DC converter. It has following advantages:

1. Lower noise than the BECs
2. Lower Heat
3. Lower energy waste(Due to (2))
4. Has a Pot with which you can more accurately set the O/P voltage.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-DC-Stepdown-Converter-Module-4-5-30V-OUT-1-25-26V-/280708249067?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415b83f5eb

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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2011, 05:38:50 PM »
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Thanks Ujjwanna,

I thought about that and wanted to buy it also later seeing that it was only for two amps long term rated output I dropped the idea.

Further this UBEC of turnigy is what is recommended by Range video for the booster Amp. Since it is housed in a metal enclosure and and has a heat sink it has low noise and has very low heat dissipation. This has further jumper to select between 5V/6V both 3 A output.

I even bought a Filtered Linear Power supply form Range video Which can be used for 5.8 Ghz Vedio Tx. But it is not supplying the recommended 3A Supply. So I am using it only for the 5.8Ghz Video Tx.
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2011, 06:34:45 PM »
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What is the range you are expecting?
According to me it may give upto 20 to 30 km LOS without glitch! if it is genuine
the one i am using wifi modem with 1 Watt ,manual says 60+miles i.e more than 100km but practically it is only 20 to 30 km LOS.
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 06:49:34 PM »
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Thanks Ujjwanna,

I thought about that and wanted to buy it also later seeing that it was only for two amps long term rated output I dropped the idea.

I even bought a Filtered Linear Power supply form Range video Which can be used for 5.8 Ghz Vedio Tx. But it is not supplying the recommended 3A Supply. So I am using it only for the 5.8Ghz Video Tx.
I have seen few 'Sealed' 5Amp DC-DC converters. Can send you the URL. Why did you need 5AMP on 5.8G Video Tx ? What is power of that ? should be max 600mA if you are using the immersion RC or the HK one. I am using a 3AMP Buck-Boost 'Up-Converter' and supply solid 12v to Video Tx using a 7.2V Lipo and everything remained cool!
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2011, 08:53:13 PM »
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Please give me URL of 5A DC DC converter if you have it.

I did not mentioned 5.8 Ghz Tx requires 5A supply!

The 5.8 Ghz tx  is of  range video only it is a metal box sealed COB. it is not consuming more than 500ma. The linear filtered power supply I am talking about is also only 700ma without heat sink. Only with heat sink it can supply more but even then it cannot cross 2A.

@praveen this is also 1watts wifi 2.4 Ghz Amp. Claimed to improve your range to 20 KM plus garunteed upto 10 KM with matching antenna. Better still with directional antenna.

There is a demonstration video in the range video where he takes the plane to 45 KM LOS on the same set up. Expends 12760 mah bty power. But he is not able reach back. Just 15 Kms short of home he crashes and plane recovered next day lipo fully wasted.
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 12:07:26 AM »
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Please give me URL of 5A DC DC converter if you have it.


You got it sir:

http://cgi.ebay.com/5A-LM2587-DC-DC-Converter-Boost-Power-Supply-Regulator-/220759523893?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33664b0235

http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-DC-Converter-12V-24V-Step-Down-5V-5A-25W-/140571118755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bab10ca3

http://cgi.ebay.com/KIM-055L-DC-DC-12V-Wide-I-P-9-35V-Step-Down-5V-5A-/260817459053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb9ee976d#ht_6551wt_1139
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 12:51:43 PM »
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Thanks Ujjwaana,

@Praveen the Link for 45KM LOS demonstration FPV flight on the same setup is as below

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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 02:25:05 PM »
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How to find out whether the video tx is capable of giving the same or more range as of the radio. It really makes sense to have radio range less than video range so that rth kicks in. Is it only trial and error we could do to find out the actual range. There may be various factors affecting the range, but atleast I need the setup such that video tx exceeds the radio range.
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2011, 02:53:42 PM »
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It really makes sense to have radio range less than video range so that rth kicks in.
I dont think RTH has a dependency on the Video Tx Range to be less/more than the range of the Radio controller. The moment RSSI goes down, the RTH on the OSD/AP would kick in, whether there is a Video feed or naught.
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2011, 02:57:26 PM »
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Smiley what i meant was if you loose video link and you still have radio link to play with, how will you know the rth has kicked in. Most osds displays on the screen about the rth switch.
And in your previous post, rssi goes down means you have lost the radio link not the video link.
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2011, 03:14:54 PM »
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That was the same question which came to my mind when I saw that demo video above. Wonder what was the video tx setup for the Demo 45 KM demo FPV Flight.

Video Tx are already available at 1.5Watts. It is only the Tx Power of transmission is being boosted from 10/100mw to 1 Watts. Though the Bandwidth used by TX RX is much less than the video Tx  which is likely to give more range to Tx Rx for same wattage, yeah I agree, It is always desirable to have better range on video channel than the Radio Control Channel.

If such a thing happens that you go beyond video range when you are fully in control range, You can always switch of the Tx and pray like hell, Blind as a bat, that your RTH Kicks in gets your Model within control range and FPV Screen flickers back to life.  Giggle But if you are on purely FPV without OSD and RTH/ Autopilot then some Plus 20K down the drain.

Jokes apart, If such a thing has to happen it can be only on an inherently very stable platform which will always level up automatically, further supported by auto pilot electronics like co pilot or auto pilot/ auto leveling features of the OSD.

One should Practice flying around from behind Blind spot/ obstacle like tree or a hill in simulator and further the same in actual s model flight practice for such an eventuality. I have heard, this part of training given to UAV pilot for such eventuality to be able to get back the model in vedio range. Not sure how far it is true, but though makes sense.  
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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2011, 12:18:40 AM »
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Finally got time to repair and replace two toggle switch of Futaba 10CHG. Further strap on the booster.

First the stock rubber ducky was removed and kept safe for future use/ as spare.

Then the pigtail with male SMA was fitted at the same location of original antenna.

Next Jack for tapping the battery pack of TX for supplying 5V filtered sup to Amplifier was added after carefully cutting slot with dremel for the jack.

IMG_20110902_193410.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2011, 06:16:13 AM »
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Internally the pigtail u fl connector is connected to the RF card.

The DC jack' s wire is connected to battery pack through master switch.

Earlier I thought I will put the turnigy 5V filtered power supply also inside TX but since it would have remained on without an additional switch under normal operation decided to put it outside with the amp.

Photo graph of inside tx and prepared power supply.

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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2011, 07:39:06 AM »
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Some more photograph of tx from inside, assembled tx with just the antenna, and booster amp method-I where the amp is directly connected top SMA.

IMG_20110902_200037.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2011, 07:40:15 AM »
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One more

IMG_20110902_222935.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2011, 07:45:46 AM »
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Method -II where the booster strapped behind and connected with interconnecting cable.

This is with a 12dbi high gain 2.4 GHz antenna omnidirectional.

Now this is a 1 Watts transmitter. The connectivity and servo response is good in all configuration. Only thing left is range testing with 1.5 watts 900 Mhz FPV with OSD.

IMG_20110902_230250.jpg
Re: Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 11:39:47 AM »
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Can this booster be made to fit the Aurora 9?
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2012, 11:42:35 AM »
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Also,
I'd like to add something like this on a RC car Tx as well.
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2012, 12:36:59 PM »
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This can be fitted to any 2.4Ghz radio/ transmitter/ wifi router with 5- 10mw RF output. However you would need appropriate  (Male) SMA connector/ SMA aerial mount to take the RF output to the amplifier.
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« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2012, 01:55:23 PM »
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Correctly mentioned by Sundaram.

U can use the booster to boost the range of any RC system that works on 2.4Ghz (it does not matter if it is land rc or air rc)
Any frequescy between 2400mhz and 2500mhz will work. However be careful as this is the microwave range. Keep it away from your body as much possible, specially from your head  Wink
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« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2012, 02:44:45 PM »
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I have heard from a senior electronics expert that "Messing up with Transmitters" in India is a crime.

If one is caught with a modded transmitter he/she might end up in prison. And this is not a joke!!

You are supposed to buy the transmitter as-is from the manufacturer. The government licenses every product that is sold in the open market. If somebody tries to increase the capability of the transmitter without a license, that will be considered illegal.

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« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2012, 02:53:05 PM »
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There are wattage restrictions on each band and the purpose that band is used for.  Ensuring the added power stays below those limits is always a good idea.
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« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2012, 02:55:30 PM »
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The thread below is very similar to this one :

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/increase-the-range-of-your-any-2-4ghz-transmitter-system/
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« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2012, 03:12:23 PM »
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I stand to agree with both Nadia and Anwar on what they have said.

Today 2.4 Ghz is used for most Electronics Comunications such as wifi routers, bluetooth, which are low power and range and various high powered transmissions like wimax and wireless WAN. They are even used in point to point wifi transmission over long range using directional antenna and very high power transmitter. They are of much higher wattage than 1 Watt, but of course all of them have been licensed by their respective manufacturers.

Like wise 900Mhz is used in GSM mobile communication band. There are 900 Mhz amplifiers in the range of 1, 2 and 5 watts Which are used for amplification for remote areas which can also be used to amplify the F*V Audio/ video transmitter transmission for extra range.

Using 2.4GHz RC Transmitters over 10mw/100mw depending on which country you are in itself not considered legal.

But getting arrested for it can rarely happen. If at all it has to happen it can even happen for using just a normal RC transmitter for flying if not used wisely.  Smiley  Smiley

When using such a modified device one has to be wise enough to use it away from civilization and habitations to avoid interference/ Jamming of other communications near by even though it can rarely occur because of the way 2.4 Ghz is used for communications.
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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2012, 04:08:14 PM »
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+1 to Sundaram  Thumbs Up
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« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2012, 04:47:25 PM »
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It is important to note that tinkering with such stuff is an age old tradition among amateur radio (HAM) enthusiasts. With all the grey areas... common sense rules the day !
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« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2012, 05:46:36 PM »
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Is it possible to extend range of the radio transmitters that come with cheap chinese heli. I have a chinese heli that I bought for about 2000 Rs. The Transmitter has 40MHz written on it. I am not good in electronics. I dont know what it means but I guess the range would be in a few meters.

Is it at all possible to extend the range of this chinese transmitter?

200m will be a good range for me to start off.
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« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2012, 05:52:17 PM »
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A 40 Mhz tx should have a 200mt range by default (unless it is a toy remote). The lower you go on frequency, the more penetrating power you get. Have you even tried 200mts ? Do a ground test to check the range.

A typical 72/35 Mhz RC radio is known to have more range than the latest 2.4Ghz radios.
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« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2012, 05:06:49 PM »
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A 40 Mhz tx should have a 200mt range by default (unless it is a toy remote).

I have 2 trasmitters.
1)First one is supposed to be 3.5 channel one which came with a chinese Heli I bought for around 2K. This one is 40 Mhz.
2)Second one came with a toy car. only 2 switches so I assume it is 2 channel. This one too is 40 Mhz.


I have not tried testing the range of the Heli transmitter. I will go to a field soon and will check it there.
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« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2012, 02:20:02 PM »
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Information sharing improves knowledge of both.



The both of you are superregenerative receivers and that is why they fall in ranges.
You need Superhet based narrow band receiver for better performance. The receivers used in 2.4GHz Tx/Rx even in cheap HK models you get better range.
And donttry to increase the range as that me be legal issue because of the discrete booster stage.
Commonly available boosters as already legal and approved for marketing (withen their freq and wattage range) using those are complete legal.
So, AFAIK, sundaram sir need not worry about it as he uses commonly available items. And above all, he is well aware about interferences may be caused and takes advance care about that.

You may need this
National Frequency Allocation Plan
Just check 2nd page, remark of AJC Bose.   Thumbs Up

Thanks
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« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2012, 07:09:01 PM »
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These are pointers for Boosters available in ebay.in

http://www.ebay.in/itm/Alfa-2000Mw-2-Watt-High-Gain-indoor-Outdoor-802-11b-g-WiFi-Booster-and-Signa-/270911158418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item3f13903892#ht_2238wt_754

This one makes no mention of wattage but picture indicates 500mw.

http://www.ebay.in/itm/LongRange-WiFi-Signal-Booster-Wireless-Signal-Amplifier-/320743903211?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item4aadd38feb#ht_9194wt_1058


http://www.ebay.in/itm/WIFI-SIGNAL-BOOSTER-WIFI-SIGNAL-AMPLIFIER-/180815215367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item2a196d3b07#ht_3096wt_896

Some international Seller in ebay.in

http://www.ebay.in/itm/2-4GHz-802-11b-1-Watt-WiFi-amplifier-signal-booster-/250541770527#ht_1205wt_896

http://www.ebay.in/itm/2-4-GHz-WiFi-802-11b-g-1-Watt-outdoor-amplifier-booster-/380184274183#ht_1518wt_896
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« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2014, 07:37:59 PM »
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Latest addition and improvement on the setup is an addition of 14 dbi 2.4Ghz Patch antenna with 10mtrs cable to mount it away from ground station and at a vantage point.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/aB0AAOxyXTRSBgvr/$(KGrHqR,!rYFHis5G0joBSBgvr!WOg~~60_57.JPG
Extending Range of a Futaba 2.4 Ghz Radio
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