RC India

12 Sundays to go before February 2011. That means just about 12 flying days before, hopefully a lot of us carry our planes and meet up in Amby valley for a couple of days of, fun, frolic and flying.
Elecctrics, Glow engine trainers, Big gassers, nippy helis and magestic turbines, the whole family would be there.
Last year when I was there as a spectator, I did notice a few things which I found to be slightly not fair. As a beginner, I saw it from a beginners point of view and if the seniors feel my views are out of line, then I do apologies
Last years competition took place on 1 day and all the competition flying was done on the same day, thereby having unmatched planes and flyers competing against each other. There were 46 high wing trainers fighting for glory against 55 cc gassers, because the category for planes was:
1.   Less than 50 cc
2.   More than 50 cc..
Now to my novice mind that seems very unfair. A new comer would be flying a 46 size plane while someone with intermediate or expert flying skills would be flying a 55 cc gasoline plane.
How would that newbie compete and fare against an expert flyer? How would he be able to get the feeling of, “being good amongst his peers”, when he would be flying in the same class as his teachers?
Demonstration is by people who are nearly the ‘Best’, but competition is always between equals. How can a self sustaining, Indian flyer compete against a fully sponsored, heli flyer who competes in world championships.
Demonstrations and competition should not be clubbed.
The event is as it is over 4 days, then why not have fun flying over the 1st day and competition over the next 2 days, and then fun flying again on the last day and pack up in the evening of the 4th day. With the competition more spaced out the event would be easily manageable and would act as a boost to the hobby in India, when more people start coming for a fair flying competition.
With the resources and will of the organizers Amby Valley could become one of the venues of the world competition circuit.
Just a scheme that could work
 
 Fixed wing :
Category 1 -    46 Glow to 91 glow engines
Category 2 -    < 91 glow engines to 30 CC Gas engines
Category 3 -    More than 31 cc gas engines

Novice, Intermediate and Expert in each category.
Novice – less than 2 yrs flying
Intermediate – 2 to 5 yrs flying
Expert – More than 5yrs flying

Helis

Intermediate and Expert classes

Jets - Experts

Hope I’ve not treaded on thin snow, by this post. But would surely like the views of all of the forum members.
Events like Amby Valley, would go a long way in giving RC the due recognition that it deserves as a sport, in India.
Doc

Pardon me for sounding rude... but 46 high wingers should not be "competing" in such events in the first place !  In fact, other than may be spot landing and precision bomb drops, they are not competition worthy in the first place.  BTW, this does not mean they should not fly in demos etc, and they should also get their share of fun. 

I am sure the organizers have considered this, when they came up with categories.  They must have also looked at other international meets for directions.  Guess they decided to keeps the babies out (of competition only), and separate the men from the boys !!!

Competing against true professionals (with resources) is the only way Indians can improve.  Bending the rules to make us look good is counter productive.  It took a lot of years and personal investment by his family, but Abhinav Bindra finally did win gold ! 

No doubt that international competition improves the level of all flyers, but should that not be in an open catagory?
The catagories were infact less than 50 cc and more than 50 cc. And there was no distinction between the level of flyers. Do you not feel that to promote the hobby there needs to be a way in which the new commers also get a platform to show their skills.
Photographs of Amby Valley 2010. Planes lined up before the start of the competition in the less than 50 cc class. You would notice a 46 high wing trainer, a 46 low wing trainer, a profile with a 60 engine, a 60 class pattern plane, and a Yak 54 with a DA 55 gas engine. All these were in the same catagory. There were a lot of other planes that were there but did not take part in the competition as people felt that they were flying against unequal competitors.
My point was that if the competition has more classes and a distinction between the skill level of flyers, more flyers would want to reach Amby Valley and take part. That would in the long run, put Amby Valley in the forefront of RC flying in India, to be later promoted as a venue for international championship competitions.
Doc

True competition should be among people who train for the same. 

I agree that there can be levels, if the organizers choose so (I see this in many heli meets).  But there is no impetus to provide such categorization if there is opportunity for beginners where they can showcase their skills in fun flight, demo flights etc. It may be due to organizational difficulties that they reduced the number of categories.

+1 Doc.
 ;D

I agree with you... Apologies, I could not start this thread earlier as suggested by you. But you are correct in pointing out the fact that I would surely not like to compete with a 50cc 3D gasser with my .60size SPAD....  :giggle: That would be just unfair  :salute:

I am glad you brought up this topic. With 12 weeks on hand, the organizers would surely have ample time to give it a thought. They already had 2 categories ealier, adding one more should not be difficult. However, the skills category may be eased out a bit to have as less distinct categories.  :thumbsup:

+1 for sure.

It all depends if its an actual competition, or a Fun-fly/Aermodelling Meet.
For the latter, having a .46 High wing trainer standing besides a DA-111 powered gasser is no issue, and infact would highlight the scale of the airplane !

But when planning for the competition, there has to be a minimum entry level airplane, and then the classification should be not just by airplane size, but by skills also. The way you suggested above - to have 9 categories for airplanes would be just fine. Even abroad they have the Sportsman, Advanced and Expert.

Didnt realize that Aamby valley was just 12 weekends away :) Looking forward to hearing from the organizers soon, so travel arrangements can be made.

My point was that there has to be some starting point (or minimum skill levels) for "competition". 

Anwar,
That minimum level would be decided by whom................ maybe the flyer himself. If an expert wishes to compete in a 60 size glow catagory he would be very welcome, but I'm sure no expert flyer would like to downgrade himself. But without fair catagories how is a person supposed to show his flying abilities at his skill level.
Amby Valley is maybe the only competition at present in India, and a lot of people would like to be a part of it. But if a person is going to travel from Bangalore or Hydrabad to be at Amby Valley, and finds that his 60 size plane is pitted to fly against a 55 CC gasser, do you think he would want to be a part of the event again..... even if he is an expert and the gent flying the 55 gasser is an intermediate. A big plane can surely out perform a smaller plane even if it is in the hands of a slightly less experienced flyer.
And who would really like to travel 1000 - 1500 Kms just to do some fun flying, when he can do it at his field and save time effort and money  :Rs: :Rs: :Rs:.
By having catagories a lot more people would like to go to Amby Valley and over the years, I feel, this event would be on the international circuit for competitive flying. And who knows, maybe in times to come a young flyer, having shown his flying prowess at a beginer level at Amby Valley, goes on to lead Indias charge in the world championships.  :thumbsup:.
I was just going through the "AMA Precision AerobaticsJUDGES TRAINING PRESENTATION2007-2008" and I did not find anything that a high wing trainer could not do. But there is a lot of difference in the sportsman and masters schedule.
These are just some things that came to my mind , but I'm sure a lot of more experienced flyers would have more to say.
Regards
Doc

I have always understood your point doc, about the "injustice" part.  May be I think too much about practical issues :) 

If you take any meet, there is a huge majority who attend not to compete, but to do other things :

1.  See the people who really train for competition and set themselves apart do their magic.  And learn from that too, to be inspired to do it themselves the next year.

2.  To take part in the "fun fly" sessions (or may be "demo"s, if they are called by that name).  Remember that you are still "exhibit"ing to a large audience, just not competing though.

3.  To soak in the ambience and camaraderie.

So we have to stop thinking of everyone as a competitor.  Being at these events can mean a lot more !

Now (and this may disappoint you), you can do pretty much everything on a 46 size profile 3D plane, that people do on a 50cc gasser.  And that was probably the thought process of organizers too.  And the people judging the event, if they know their stuff, should give additional marks for doing things using a smaller plane.  Having made this argument, at least one more class makes sense. 

The question of "minimum level decided by whom" would be applicable even if we made classes by "level of skill (novice, intermediate, expert)", as suggested by you in the first post. 

Most importantly, there are more and more meets happening now across the country, so the future looks quite bright ! :)

I see ur point Anwar, being at an event like this sure has more facets than just the competition. I was there this year, as a spectator, seeing what and how and how not. That was even before I has taken a Tx in my hand, or flicked a prop.
Part of my thoughts here started out as conversations that I had at Amby Valley the last time I was there. There were a lot of young flyers (compared to me in age  ;)) who backed out of the competition when they saw some of the other planes.
U are very right in saying that a 46 glow profile can do as good as a 50 gasser, and sometimes a profile would be able to do high alpha Maneuvers and prop hangs better than a 50 gasser, but still the two are not in the same 'class'.
Skill levels may also be decided on the plane a person is flying. lets say a person tries to enter all classes then the highest class in which he enters would be his skill level and he would not be a taken as a competitior in the lower engine size class. I mean if I fly a 46 glow, and a 90 glow and a 500 cc gas then, I would be taken as a competitior in the 50 cc gas catagory and my flying would be disregarded in the 46 and 90 classes. What do u say for that. Just some brainstorming and food for thought for everyone.
RC as a hobby is growing in India no doubt. But flyers with limited resources have only a few places where they can go. Also transporting planes over long distances is not easy for everyone. A flyer from Delhi would have a tough time to carry his plane and equipment if he were to compete in Chennai and vise versa.
With a forum like RCI and a moderator like Anwar, the future of RC in India sure does look very bright. Thank you Anwar for having a place where people like me can voice their views and be patiently heard and guided in the right way.
Regards
Doc

For the Funfly events - no categorization... :)

For competition, the categories need to be defined as suggested by Doc. Infact 9 categories  (3 Skills * 3 Class) is not very difficult to maintain.  :headscratch:

I was expecting more responses on this  8-) and experts and organizers to pitch in please.

My 2 cents or should I say few paisa worth?
As long as we do not follow an internationaly accepted format, for competition and judging the fields would remain unbalanced. For those who may not know, there are formats even for fun fly event
And as long as that does not happen, it is best to have a demo/general flying get together rather than a competition.
Hopefully planning to attend the event this time 

That is great news 'Flyingboxcar'. It would be really nice to meet flyers from all over India.
You are so right in saying that an internationally accepted format and judging standards should be in place for the competition. That is the only way that flyers from India would actually come to know what exactly should happen and how is it done. Just flying around and doing some great aerobatics does not mean that one is of international standards. For a competition, there is a way of doing the very same aerobatics.
This thread was started so that we could get the views of as many flyers as possible so that the organizers may be able to formulate an event that would Help RC flying in general and the 'Wings India aeromodlers Meet' in particular to grow and become a trully International event.
As for a flying get together, I feel that the number of people wanting to spend precious  :Rs: for just fun flying or Demo flying, would be few. For the hobby to grow, we need to nurture it and pamper it. There should be a competition, so that the best flyers have a chance of making their name for themselves on the International scene some day. Incentive ignites enthusiasm, and that incentive would be recognition of the persons flying skills, by way of prizes and such.
For the newcommers it could be an ARF or an engine and prop and spinner, or maybe a couple of Rx's, or something of that sort. For the winners of the events as in 1st , 2nd, 3rd place it could be something more substantial. That is something for the organizers to decide.
Hope we get to hear from a lot more people of\n that thread.
Regards
Doc

I was expecting the organizers to comment on this ...  :(

But i guess they are either not interested or tooo  :sleepy:

I had thought this would become a hot topic for debate. :argue:

As said by others, the cost of travelling long distances with all your paraphernalia, is daunting. One way to "nurture" would be to have competitions at the local and regional levels. So the good fliers could/would have the confidence to graduate from local to regional to national levels. and thereafter the sky - literally -is the limit!

I have gone to Amby Valley for a day each, at all the 3 meets. The best part was the exposure to some of the good international fliers. Their flying sets benchmarks for most, if not all, of us, in India.

Guys guess what................. 10 sundays left for Feb to begin. Anwar bhai pls change the Subject to 10 Sundays.............  ;D ;D :giggle: :giggle:

Sushil ji, till the time comes when a lot of local events take place one has to make this pilgrimage to reach the only place in India with an organised flying event. But you are right.... there have to be a lot more events for the flyers to see and learn. Like the states, zonals, and then finally the Nationals (Amby Valley).

With the kind of organisation and spirit that there is at Amby Valley I feel that one day soon, India would be on the international circuit as a venue for competition. We just have to make it large enough so that the organisers and other world bodies start seeing it as a potential venue. Once a fair national level competition starts taking place there regularly, aeromodelling in India would get the recognition as it so deserves.

Though travelling long distances sure has its own problems, but I so dearly hope and wish, that next year (2011) we see and meet twice the number of people present in 2010. Its just once a year and 4 days of sheer bliss would be great.

Hope to see an announcement soon for the dates. and other details.

Happy Flying

Doc

The likely dates for 2011 are Feb 25, Feb 26 & Feb 27.

Great news kartik.................. So folks pls let everyone know and lets all pitch in to make this a great event and lets be ready to have a lot of fun.
I hope now we should start getting some confirmations as to who will be going to Amby Valley in Feb so that we can personally meet and put faces to the handles on RCI.
Can't wait for the fun to begin.

Safe landings
Doc

Any confirmation on the dates ???

Its fri sat sun 25th to 27th of Feb. 2011 :) Get Ready guys.... 8)

Yes the dates are 25th, 26th & 27th Feb 2010

Cool. When is this going to be officially announced, so we can freeze our programmes ? Look forward to being there this time and meet RC enthusiasts from all over the country. Hope it turns out the same ( or better ) than last year !

That's great News........... Hey guys lets meet up there and make it one hell of an event (Party).
I just hope some of us can recognise the others on this forum and connect as individuals too.
Can't wait to be there.
Yipee
Doc

Guys the dates are confirmed !!
25th feb to 27th feb
most of the international flyers are in on the 23rd
24th is a set up / free / practise day and the action begins on the 25th of feb

hope to see u in greater nos flying

puneet

team wings india

Hi Puneet,
Great news there !
When do you expect to have the details up on the website, so we can make our bookings ?
Look forward to being there.
-Gaurav

deatails will be on the web site in the nxt 2-3 days