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Poll
Question: Should the Format of flying change at Amby Valley???
First timer - Like it as it is - 4 (9.5%)
Not enough done to promote Aeromodelling - 15 (35.7%)
Should have an organized competition - 13 (31%)
Will go back next year - 6 (14.3%)
This was the list time I was there - 4 (9.5%)
Total Voters: 24

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« on: March 03, 2011, 08:26:08 AM »
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The much awaited event at Amby Valley is over now.
The crowd was much less than what is was last year.
The planes were mostly jets.
Props were conspicuous by their abscence.
How about some views from the forum members about the event.
 
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 08:34:24 AM »
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Hope the results of this poll have an impact on future events at Amby Valley and other events of the same kind all over India.
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 10:02:31 AM »
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it did lack in organization. Sad it was just regular random sunday flying this year where no one knew what the other is doing. i could have done the same at my local flying field. no need to travel all the way to aamby valley and would have gone there just as a visitor.
never the less aamby valley is a great meet. Salute it just needs some itsy bitsy improvements where there would be something for all the enthusiasts of this wonderful sport/hobby  Thumbs Up
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 11:30:21 AM »
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My question is how many here in India own a 50cc & up planes? mostly people fly 40-60 to 90-160 planes.

Here in India we must be focused mainly on Indian pilots, here mostly people fly 40-60 to 90-160 size planes in majority, so we need a organised event or aerobatic competition with international rules & regulation were all the pilots can fly in various different categories like beginners, intermediate, advanced, unlimited. Other pilots who don't wish to participate in the competition can just fly for fun  Grin. Fees must be reasonable for the pilots for all class. What we actually need to do is make the event affordable for all class of modellers around this country & bring up the best talent  Thumbs Up which can represent India in a International event later  Smiley.

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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 11:53:57 PM »
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My sentiments exactly Sharlock. Someone should start working on these lines and host an event soon.
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 09:44:46 AM »
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words taken out of my mouth Sherlock. i fully agree with  Thumbs Up u as i said "there should be something for every one".
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 01:37:54 PM »
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From what I see from the pictures posted, hardly any orginality. Did see one Aircomet but do not know if this was an ARF or a kit/scratch built.
My impressions, playground for the big boys in flying
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 10:14:06 PM »
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So what about the rest of us? Do we do something about it or just sit back and watch. Why not have organized flying events all over the country for everyone including the guys doing DIY projects. Jaago India Jaago.
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 11:01:10 PM »
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What we need is at least events in glow engine from basic to advanced & may be a 50cc class gas separate class. The point is to bring each n every pilot around the country together this will truly help us grow in future... Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 11:11:14 PM »
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Events at smaller scale are happening around Delhi, in Chennai etc. 

Ideally, there should be some kind of regional competitions (for both flying and building), and the finalists alone should be in one national event.  That way everyone would not have to travel large distances with their stuff, and there is still motivation for EVERYONE to pursue improvement in whatever fascinates them.

As the numbers grow, we WILL see this India... sooner than later !
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 11:26:30 PM »
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Anwar this was exactly what I've been saying for the past few months. But I hope it is sooner and not later.
How about one event this year in every possible region. Guys why don't u motivate the local bodies to get together and host a few of these events so that there is a begining.
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 11:01:25 AM »
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I don't agree to "finalists alone should be in one national event." I see Joe Nall which is a biggest event in the world.. were mostly all Americans participate including beginners to world class pilots around the world  Thumbs Up my brother was there last year & he said it was a blast.. amazing experience world class setup.

Amby valley event is not a competition were our finalist national pilot has to participate  Head Scratching
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 11:12:07 AM »
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i feel that it is very important for international world class flyers to be attending such aeromodeling meets or competitions. BUT for Demos only (not participating in the competitions) in this way indian modelers will not feel left behind nd they can learn something from them and also ask them any questions which could be very helpful.

@ ANWAR - as per skimming the milk. there has to be a common body which selects those flyer going to the national events. is there any such body in India ? how can this move forward ? what i have seen at aamby is that there is a small group of flyers which is treated partially. this should be a big no no for such events. in the end we all have huge passion for our hobby nd sacrifice alot for it that includes the continuous notorious bugging nd taunting of our wives, girlfriends and family lol  Grin Giggle

@ FLYINGBOXCAR -  i completely agree with u Thumbs Up . this years aamby was all about jets and BIG props even i with my 25% yak 54 dle 55 gasser felt like a dwarf amongst them. never the less it was great fun.  Thumbs Up but i surely would have liked it in a more organized manner which this year i must say was a complete mess as compared to the previous 2 years i have attended. Head Scratching
there were hardly any glow powered planes there which i found very sad nd saw this event moving towards and i quote u  A "PLAYGROUND FOR THE BIG BOYS FLYING" only. 
i am sure 90 % of India's flyers use glow engines then why not promote that ? why is there such a huge fuss about giant planes and jets? glow engines and smaller planes can fly with the exact elegance as giants do.

@ SHARLOCK- i also agree that there should se something for everyone EP-GLOWS- GASSERS- JETS AND HELLIES.. something for every class beginner- intermediate and advanced. its a difficult but surely not an impossible task. 

@ FLYINGDOC - i would love to see more members of this forum to vote on this thread its a shame that there are 654 views of this thread but only 9 votes and see what the majority of flyers of India really believe in and what we really want as we can learn from our and others mistakes and strive to organize much better such amazing events.

if not then lets all sit down with a chilled beer and tlk abt it with a great lough  Drool Clap
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 11:18:14 AM »
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I don't agree to "finalists alone should be in one national event." I see Joe Nall which is a biggest event in the world.. were mostly all Americans participate including beginners to world class pilots around the world

Amby valley event is not a competition were our finalist national pilot has to participate  Head Scratching

Wow ! I seem to be getting really bad at putting things across, or weird conclusions are being drawn out of my words Giggle

1.  I did not mean Aamby Valley as national finals !

2.  Whatever that national finals is, there can always be a half day (or even one day) of fun flying for all, for people who are so inclined. But they should really be having fun in local/regional events and attend the nationals to see the better folks demonstrate the fruits of their added effort.  This ensures that the event is focused on quality, and allows it to be completed in a short timeframe.  What exactly is the point in flying with 25 other planes in the air at the same time ? If you want to do that, do it in the regionals. I would rather watch some people who have put in some efforts and earned a mark of recognition in the finals event.

3.  It does seem to make sense to do this the same way sports in conducted in our country. State and regional level competition performance is what gets them selected to nationals.  Organizations like AMAI can help with this.

4.  In our context, the events should take only 2 days. This whole "which 2 days should I attend" should go away !
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 11:33:29 AM »
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My views expressed in November remain the same!

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-events/12-sundays-to-february-2011/msg39747/#msg39747
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 11:44:55 AM »
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Interesting - some what passionate views !!

Just chiming in here to say that I've never been to
Aamby Valley - Is this open to the " aam jantaa " ??
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 02:07:19 PM »
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Interesting - some what passionate views !!

Just chiming in here to say that I've never been to
Aamby Valley - Is this open to the " aam jantaa " ??


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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2011, 02:36:51 PM »
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for visitors that is ..
flyers season pass for 3 days is 3 k
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2011, 05:42:33 PM »
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for visitors that is ..
flyers season pass for 3 days is 3 k

Can all the pilots afford 3K is a question. But the main thing is stay at Amby valley is definetly expensive for average class.
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 06:07:42 PM »
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guys,

this is an event for the mumbai people only, all other flyers have no meaning, neither anybody is competent enough to fly there spending all that money.

i have been there all the time except the last year and have found that only one flyer is doing everything i.e Wasi. the international flyers are invited for pure entertainment.

This event only shows the technological advancement in aeromodelling. but india is still 20 yrs back and learning to fly a .46 size high wing trainer model.

Again i can say that this is a circus of the rich, for the rich and by the rich.
 Smiley Giggle


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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 06:13:41 PM »
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I would disagree with respect Smiley  While part of what you said are valid, this event does two things that are important.

1. It puts India in the calendar of global RC events, with some recognition.

2. Most importantly, it allows local RC fliers to see some great flying (and probably some new equipment) up close and personal by talented international flyers, without having to spend enormously on travelling outside the country.  There are always things one can pick up from interaction with such people.

It seems unfair to cast the significant efforts of a bunch of people in a totally negative manner ("circus") Sad  At the very least it is just "one way to skin the cat", while there are many ways of doing the same (some of which may be better!).
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 06:57:50 PM »
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Anwar,

i totally agree with point no.1 and point no.2.

but the background is different. i too visit aamby to see the new technological advancement and development in rc. the international flyers are the only event highlight.

But this year it has been very poor and the crowd on saturday was not much. many people returned after the lunch hour.

only three flyers were doing their work. Harveer, Adarsh and Wasi.

I have no grudge against the show. but the event organisers do not show hospitality for the fellow modellers who travel all the way for the event.

believe it or not, people come to see but have a lot to speak but cannot as there is no way they can be heard.

this is my own personal experience.

btw pls look at the no of new entries in the event and every year it seems to be declining.

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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 08:10:58 PM »
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I am in surely, next year,
that apart sad to hear, the number is dwindling, three suggestions that i can give is (a) Introduce competitions in much wider category (2) Organise it in more number of cities and more often (c) make it a little more affordable for teenagers, College students

Spoke to couple of them, all of'em, barring none said, it was boring and they left early (Echo Sbajare).

We need to work on making RC activities big, Amby valley meet is one such effort, lets make it bigger next year. cheers to that Thumbs Up
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2011, 01:06:48 AM »
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Wow.. that's a start. 12 votes in so many days.
Guys do u feel that just sitting and not expressing ur views would help in promoting this hobby???
More the ideas and maybe there will be someone to take on the mantle to do something concrete.
Waiting for more replies.
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2011, 11:26:53 AM »
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what is all this fuss about guys.....Huh? The event happened and it was a success. Participation more or less will not decide the success of the show....besides, there were reasons for less participation....

@doc, who will do this sort of thing...?? why has it not been done as yet....?? organizing such a thing is not easy and you have seen it in person over during your presence at aamby....

@bajare sir, what is the kind of hospitality one should expect once local flyers come for an event like this, or any event of this sort any where around the world....Huh? (please bear in mind the number coming in unlike other small events happening in our country where the participation is less and every flyer is recognized...)...why is it that the event is only for people from mumbai....?? There were participation from all across the country, both in terms of flyers as well as visitors....was it really a "CIRCUS" as you mentioned....??

@ron, yes, aamby valley is all about giant stuff....but didnt you got your slots to fly your gasser....?? team indore has done fabulously well over last 3 years...right since I have known harveer and team, you guys have come such a long way in this...how do i know this...?? through this event....dont you and your team feel any sort of cognizance for this....?? what is the sort of "ORGANIZE" expected out of this event...?? this event spanned over a period of 4 days, i guess you were there....do you think that accommodating majority of flyers across the country was possible....Huh?

@sharlock, joe nall is way much bigger in terms of team, budget, regulations etc etc etc as compared to wings india. but still, some more info on joe nall like no. of flyers, visitors etc over here will really justify things....

i m not trying to get into any sort of arguments here....wings india started small....very very small way back in 2005. i have been associated with the club right since then...i have seen it grow big every year...in terms of flyers, aircrafts, equipments etc etc etc. Today, india is known in the international arena because of this event...and this exactly has been the focus of the organizers...to let our country be known to international fraternity....it has started to happen now....name any big flyer or manufacturer, they know us and with a sense of respect...competition has never been the focus of wings india until now....it may or may not happen in the future....but good flyers have always been appreciated during the event...harveer and team, varun, myself and lots of others were appreciated....

international participation is important....cause we watch them and learn....everything doesnt happens watching videos and reading online....I myself have learnt so much just watching these guys fly in front of me....demo slots, some basic competitions, display flying etc takes away the whole four days of the meet....few people on this thread know this very well as they were there on most of the days....

someone posted in this thread that it was a regular sunday flying...was it really a regular sunday flying...?? does any one get to see these models fly in any part of our country on a regular sunday....??

why the entrance fees...?? cause there is money involved in organizing this event at this scale....but the funny part of it is that every year, the meets goes in a loss...one more surprising fact, the registered flyers count every year is between 30-50....the flyers registration in 2005 was around rs. 1000 and now it was rs. 3000. like this year, people have had problem with the entrance money every year...but people who are serious do participate every year and they have no problems....accomodation big problem at aamby, but there are cheaper alternats outside aamby....and loads of them 17kms down in lonavla...travel, a big problem again...but it will be there where ever we organize the meet...aamby is a perfect place to host it due to its features....we evaluated couple of places but found aamby most feasible not because the other places were not good enough, but people over there were not ready to take up the responsibility....hence being in mumbai, aamby was favored....

guys, everyone has a point to make and to express, but please dont demean the efforts of wings india. it happens at times that even i am not aware of whats going on in managements mind for the meet....what i am trying to say is, they have their own objectives which is certainly not personal.....

we all talk, this should happen, that should happen etc etc etc....but why is it that things are not materializing....?? cause the amount of efforts and money involved in organizing such things becomes difficult to manage....who is willing to take responsibility of it...as a person or as a club.....there are enough clubs around the country now, but still nothing happening.....cant blame anyone for this....but when something is happening, lets not negate it...

even i feel there should be competitions and something for everyone, please suggest how do we incorporate it in this event with everything else happening in it. the moment we talk of competitions, there are so many things to cater to....rules, flyers, patterns, judging etc etc etc....how do we manage these things....and besides, the most difficult question that comes to my mind is, who will judge...(controversies is what i see..)??

sorry for being direct....and this issue is quite subjective and it may go on and on and on....but it really doesnt feels good when things are being talked abt in this way....
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2011, 11:53:41 AM »
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The critics need to take matters into their own hands.  After all, Aamby Valley IS a PRIVATE affair (which is thankfully open to the public, and anyone is on his own discretion to go or not). 

If one wants changes, do it yourself, with the help of a lot of like minded people.

At the risk of self praise, I would say that the existence of this forum is the direct result of such a step... we could not stand the status quo elsewhere, so take matters into our own hands.  Support will come, sooner than later !

As far as Wings India is concerned, if I were you, I would treat this thread as candid feedback, and see if there is anything that can be incorporated into the way things are done to make it more appealing to even more people. 

And yes, the language of the criticism of such a private event could have been milder !
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2011, 12:22:21 PM »
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i m no one but just another critic sir.....and everyones concern is definite as we all love this sport and we all speak out for the love of the sport....

i appreciate your views on this subject sir....
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2011, 12:24:27 PM »
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2011, 01:01:58 AM »
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Wow.. That was a strong one. But, I feel my arrow missed the point that was being made. At present the only aeromodelling event that has been going on consistently for the last 7yrs has been the one organized by Wings India at Amby Valley. And who better than Wings India, to take it up to the level of an organized competition. Wings India has the experience, the expertise and the resources to organize a competition which would help promote aeromodelling in India. I’m sure a lot of like minded people would be very willing to help in the promotion and organization of such an event.

Why has it not been done – Just because, in India, aeromodelling is still in its nascent phase and flyers are few and spread out. The largest bodies are in Mumbai and Delhi. So if one organization or a group of organizations get together why is it that such a competition can not be held.

No body says that they do not want to see some world class WOW flying, but in the same event should the Indian flyers not get an opportunity to show what they have been up to. A perfect example of this would have been the ‘Limbo Flying’.

The little kid from Surat, who was flying the pattern plane, was really good….. infact he was much better than a lot of adults…. He was adjudged the 3rd best in the under 15 category. How do u feel he would have felt at that moment and since then. Biren had the confidence to give his 100 cc gasser to that kid to fly.

And that other boy who was also flying a pattern plane and he sure was flying beautifully. Perfect maneuvers. To the extent that his 8 sided boxes were also perfect. Did many people notice him or was he given any kind of recognition. He deserved much more.

The foreign flyers were really good and were fun to watch. But very few people actually got to learn from them. If you don’t have more people, youngsters and oldies (like me), who may be able to learn from them, then what good is a class for 2 people. That 1 hr class may have taken place over all 4 days, everyday for some newbie to actually benefit from it.

Would it actually be right to say that Amby Valley is “@ron, yes, aamby valley is all about giant stuff”??? If so then it should have been called “jets over Amby Valley”. Anurags event was one for jets and he invited people with jets to be at his place.

Sure people know Harveer through this event and his videos on the net. They have seen his flying in 2009, 2010 and 2011. In helis, how many flyers in India fly better than him? (I don’t know so just asking.) Maybe a few. To the extent that last year Klous too appreciated his flying. Do u feel he is not as good as Adarsh? But then Adarsh is the best heli flyer in India. Fellow flyers know Harveer, not because of anything but his flying.

Sure there was a slot for less than 50 cc…….. right there in the morning between 7 and 8 Am………. Who saw the props being flown?

As for the entrance fee, that is justified. There should be a fee for a flying season and that is the organizers prerogative as to what the fee should be. But should it not be fair? Jets from 10 to 4 and props from 7 to 8, both pay the same. Somebody who is flying a jet already has the resources, but a student who has the skill but has to save from his pocket money to be in this hobby doesn’t.

The views expressed by one and all on this and any other forum are in no way to demean the great efforts put in every year by the organization and club members of Wings India. They are just voices in support of the event with words of how it can be made better.

Visitors from any part of India would travel to Amby Valley, with their models, for??? Sure I’d like to see Sebastiano fly the Hawk. I got to know how a Barrel roll was done, by seeing him roll the hawk…. But how many people saw the kid do good pattern flying? Should an event being held in India, not have the primary motto of promoting Indians?

Organizing an event is really not easy, but it’s not difficult either. One, if u actually have a fair competition along with good demo flying, I’m sure there would be a lot more people willing to travel across India to show that they are better than the rest in their class of flying.

Categories need only be made in props. Jet and Heli flyers come into expert class in general, baring one or two.

46 to 91
Novice
Intermediate

108 to 30 CC petrol
Intermediate
Expert

31 CC petrol to 100 CC petrol
Intermediate
Expert

More than 100 CC
Expert

Lets take 15 flyers in each category, and 5 min per flyer then that is 450min and add 90 min (1 min per flyer start up time). That makes it 9 hrs. Flying time one gets is from 7 to 1 (6hrs) and 2 to 6 (4 hrs). with 1 hr for lunch.
That means that if is done on time then you would have flying time for at least 90 flyers. That’s the first day. 2nd day Jets and Helis. 3rd day Demo flying by the experts in Jets, Helis and Props and Finals on the 4th day. That way flyers would be present on all 4 days and would get to see all that is shown.

Final 4 in each category compete for the finals, with prizes for the first 3 and a consolation for the forth and certificate of participation for the rest.


Guys I’m sure we in India have more than 5 fair, truthful and impartial judges to judge the competition. We should not belittle ourselves by saying that we do not have enough truthful people in out country and sport. And lets say that there is a bias from one of the judges then it would not be, that all 5 sitting judges are biased.

Flying is rules and all of us know that. There are rules on and off the field and a good flyer will always respect those rules. So why not have rules at Amby too.

Pattern flying is still done by just a handful of flyers but sequence flying is done by all. So a flyer gives the judges his sequence and he is judged according to the level of difficulty of the maneuver and finesse of the maneuver. Points have already been laid down for each maneuver and grading would not be a difficult task.

Once this thing picks up…. Sponsors would not hesitate to be a part of the event. They would also get their mileage from the increased participation. And a lot of people would like to be a part of such a novel sport as aeromodelling. In the mean time all of us can pitch in to find sponsors for a national aeromodelling competition.
Taking help of other clubs and organizations would strengthen the aeromodelling network in India and sometime in the near future India could become one of the venues for international competitions. Don’t u think that is a distinct possibility.

Wings India need not be the only organization to host events of this magnitude but the bottom line is that Wings India is one of the very few organizations, that actually has the capability to host an event as big as this.

I might have stepped out of place in some of my observations and would like to be excused for that, but all of this comes directly from my heart. Hope this is taken in the positive.

Doc
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2011, 11:37:31 AM »
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@ FLYING DOC - WAW Doc ! ur layout it great . Clap Bow.. thats exactly how i would love to see any future events in India. looks like you have thought about it, thought about it AND thought about it  Giggle . u got everything figured out and calculated with something for every one. now its all about implementing it.

@ WASI - things are easier said than done. no matter how good you are. there will always be that bunch of ppl who always got one thing or the other to complain about. but as a management point of view critisizm is GREAT Thumbs Up that means there is always room for improvement.

wasi -  if it wouldn't be for this thread would you know about what people feel and think about aeromodeling in India and where such events could be improved ?

i think its a great thing "thank you internet, thank you anwar for hosting this website and thank you doc for bringing up this topic"
we all learn through out our lives. NO ONE CAN BE PERFECT  Wink but surely it can be improvements and thats all what is needed.

now coming to clear my point. "sunday flying" -  i have been visiting this awesome event for 3 years ever since i have started this sport, it was the first time i came as a participant. So i felt that putting all this effort of preparing, packing and traveling with the plane/planes wasn't worth it. its not about getting a slot to fly. i would have rather come as a visitor which i always will as aamby valley is the only meet in india where you can learn so much from each other and see so many great aircrafts, flying etc etc ...

if you say "aamby valley is all about giant stuff" does that mean people with less than 50cc should not participate in the meets ? i have no sweat since i am moving to 100cc but what about the "i repeat myself 80-90% of India's aeromodelers who have smaller glow models" ? is it not a bit unfair and i am speaking for the masses here not for myself. i enjoy watching a smaller craft flying just as much as i enjoy watching a giant.

I have seen your immense hard work at aamby where everyone always calls out your name and needs you for everything. truly i must say this event would not even be half for what it is if it wouldn't be for you. Even though you were immensely buisy during the event 'managing AND flying'. u still got the time to be a great host. so hats off to you  Salute i have no complaints at all

I love aamby valley as a location. the weather is great and i think its the best location in india with the largest density of aeromodelers within a 300 km radius.
i.e puna, mumbai and surat as a majority. the only other city i cn think about might be delhi

i wouldn't even be writing so much if it wouldn't be for my passion for the sport. again i would love to see more votes. Drool
we should really try to inform each other and support each other cos all of us have a common LOVE and that is the sport.

with warmest regards
Aaron

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« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2011, 03:18:54 PM »
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Hi doc...

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Wow.. That was a strong one. But, I feel my arrow missed the point that was being made. At present the only aeromodelling event that has been going on consistently for the last 7yrs has been the one organized by Wings India at Amby Valley. And who better than Wings India, to take it up to the level of an organized competition. Wings India has the experience, the expertise and the resources to organize a competition which would help promote aeromodelling in India. I’m sure a lot of like minded people would be very willing to help in the promotion and organization of such an event.

Like minded people....where are they...?? format of Aamby - display...not competition...like i said, competition was never on the charts...whatever happens in the name of the competition is to keep the tempo going...never this event has witnessed true competition...many reasons for it...in short, this format if this event is exactly the opposite of what you are suggesting....and it is with all the experience and expertise of last 7 years that this format has been thought of....and i repeat again, the focus was never competition...it may or may not happen in future...

Quote
Why has it not been done – Just because, in India, aeromodelling is still in its nascent phase and flyers are few and spread out. The largest bodies are in Mumbai and Delhi. So if one organization or a group of organizations get together why is it that such a competition can not be held.

Whatever said and done, it is still not happening....how and when....??

Quote
No body says that they do not want to see some world class WOW flying, but in the same event should the Indian flyers not get an opportunity to show what they have been up to. A perfect example of this would have been the ‘Limbo Flying’.

how many indian flyers did turned up....?? again, like i said before, the format is looking at all these things that has happened in past....hosting a competition of 3 -5 flyers...??...and amongst all present, how many indian flyer did compete in the limbo...?? was it so difficult that an intermediate would not have entered in limbo...??

Quote
The little kid from Surat, who was flying the pattern plane, was really good….. infact he was much better than a lot of adults…. He was adjudged the 3rd best in the under 15 category. How do u feel he would have felt at that moment and since then. Biren had the confidence to give his 100 cc gasser to that kid to fly.

isn't it a classic example when i said "i see controversies..." werent there senior people in this sport around to make the difference.....

Quote
And that other boy who was also flying a pattern plane and he sure was flying beautifully. Perfect maneuvers. To the extent that his 8 sided boxes were also perfect. Did many people notice him or was he given any kind of recognition. He deserved much more.

This boy is Aditya Jayakar from Mumbai...won under 50cc category last year along with varun...he was appreciated last year (won a jet engine for himself)....just that this year, there was no event supporting his category...

Quote
The foreign flyers were really good and were fun to watch. But very few people actually got to learn from them. If you don’t have more people, youngsters and oldies (like me), who may be able to learn from them, then what good is a class for 2 people. That 1 hr class may have taken place over all 4 days, everyday for some newbie to actually benefit from it.

Good point.....this can certainly help....but still, we all got our share of chances to meet the big boys and learn and understand from them....informal types....we can do it more formally next year...(is this what you meant...??)

Quote
Would it actually be right to say that Amby Valley is “@ron, yes, aamby valley is all about giant stuff”??? If so then it should have been called “jets over Amby Valley”. Anurags event was one for jets and he invited people with jets to be at his place.

Sure, but its not just about jets....it about the whole sport...and what i meant for giant stuffs is that the bigger models are so many that the smaller models are not seen....simply outnumbered....but did the meet circular ever mentioned that smaller models are not allowed....more number of smaller aircrafts would have forced the organizers to create a spot event for them....like limbo happened which was not planned....

Quote
Sure people know Harveer through this event and his videos on the net. They have seen his flying in 2009, 2010 and 2011. In helis, how many flyers in India fly better than him? (I don’t know so just asking.) Maybe a few. To the extent that last year Klous too appreciated his flying. Do u feel he is not as good as Adarsh? But then Adarsh is the best heli flyer in India. Fellow flyers know Harveer, not because of anything but his flying.

dont want to comment on anyones personal flying....both harveer and adarsh are good....better than them in our country, may or may not....but i certainly know harveer only cause of this event.... and i m sure lots of people will...and ofcourse because of his flying...what this person has achieved in last 2 years is exceptional....the whole indore team for that matter has been extremely impressive...not only in flying but they way they go around, the team, the dedication, the efforts, the love for the hobby...fabulous....and the fact of who is better and who is not...."CONTROVERSIES"...

Quote
Sure there was a slot for less than 50 cc…….. right there in the morning between 7 and 8 Am………. Who saw the props being flown?

there were people coming and flying in the morning....i have seen them....but it went un-noticed cause not competition....had there been any sort of competition, it would have started at regular time, like every year....

Quote
As for the entrance fee, that is justified. There should be a fee for a flying season and that is the organizers prerogative as to what the fee should be. But should it not be fair? Jets from 10 to 4 and props from 7 to 8, both pay the same. Somebody who is flying a jet already has the resources, but a student who has the skill but has to save from his pocket money to be in this hobby doesn’t.

sir, the time would have been taken keeping few things in mind....there were obviously more number of jets flying (doesnt means that there were more jets...)...start up, fly and shut down does takes time and hence last minute change in schedule....yes, i felt offended too but i have faith in organizers and i m sure that there were reasons for it....

Quote
The views expressed by one and all on this and any other forum are in no way to demean the great efforts put in every year by the organization and club members of Wings India. They are just voices in support of the event with words of how it can be made better.

"would have done much more on a regular sunday..." and "CIRCUS"....isint it a bit harsh....i completely understand your views on the whole thing....but tell me, is it justified....?? less flyer, more flyer, competition, no competition, making things better etc etc etc, i wouldnt have even commented on this issue, but comments like these....!!!

Quote
Visitors from any part of India would travel to Amby Valley, with their models, for??? Sure I’d like to see Sebastiano fly the Hawk. I got to know how a Barrel roll was done, by seeing him roll the hawk…. But how many people saw the kid do good pattern flying? Should an event being held in India, not have the primary motto of promoting Indians?

everyone saw him fly sir....but sure, no token of appreciation...i felt bad too...sure this kid would have nailed a lot of flyers around...but unfortunately it didnt happened....but comparing seba to him....?? please understand sir, who is getting promoted here, the hobby and its pursuance in india or seba...?? please look at things as a whole....

Quote
Organizing an event is really not easy, but it’s not difficult either. One, if u actually have a fair competition along with good demo flying, I’m sure there would be a lot more people willing to travel across India to show that they are better than the rest in their class of flying.

yes, i agree, its not easy but not difficult either....but then y not more event happening in the country....?? and about people traveling, i disagree sir....tried and tested various formats in last 7 years...team indore did it, but not many people will be able to....forget about class, even general participation wont come....and i am talking fact....

Quote
Categories need only be made in props. Jet and Heli flyers come into expert class in general, baring one or two.

46 to 91
Novice
Intermediate

108 to 30 CC petrol
Intermediate
Expert

31 CC petrol to 100 CC petrol
Intermediate
Expert

More than 100 CC
Expert

Lets take 15 flyers in each category, and 5 min per flyer then that is 450min and add 90 min (1 min per flyer start up time). That makes it 9 hrs. Flying time one gets is from 7 to 1 (6hrs) and 2 to 6 (4 hrs). with 1 hr for lunch.

nice format sir....certainly in for next years proposal....like you said, easier said than done...but this issue again i say is very subjective....event is for 4 days, but it kick starts only on friday....the earlier formats were only for 3 days ie. friday, sat and sun...request anwar sir to start a new thread on this where we all can share our views on the format...guess there is a thread already running in general but a more specific one on aamby meet will help....

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That means that if is done on time then you would have flying time for at least 90 flyers. That’s the first day. 2nd day Jets and Helis. 3rd day Demo flying by the experts in Jets, Helis and Props and Finals on the 4th day. That way flyers would be present on all 4 days and would get to see all that is shown.

Final 4 in each category compete for the finals, with prizes for the first 3 and a consolation for the forth and certificate of participation for the rest.

agreed....but the focus is lost...should we invite foreign flyers to fly only on one day for a flight or 2...?? who will be interested to cart their equipments all the way across for this...?? you have a point here doc, but dont you feel the charm of the meet will reduce....?? i m sorry but its a genuine question....not resisting here...

Quote
Guys I’m sure we in India have more than 5 fair, truthful and impartial judges to judge the competition. We should not belittle ourselves by saying that we do not have enough truthful people in out country and sport. And lets say that there is a bias from one of the judges then it would not be, that all 5 sitting judges are biased.

where are they....?? i have seen this hobby up close and personal....may not be the best of the flyer around but i understand flying and people associated....i have never in my flying career of 7 years come across a second fair guy (considering the first one is always fair...)...not belittling, but anyone in our country who will possess the knowledge of judging will not judge, but compete....i have seen it practically...in any event, if they exist, how many events here has actually seen them...?? infact, at one point of time when we were discussing the competition for the meet, we seriously gave it a thought to sponsor a foreign guy to come and judge....just sharing...

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Flying is rules and all of us know that. There are rules on and off the field and a good flyer will always respect those rules. So why not have rules at Amby too.

Pattern flying is still done by just a handful of flyers but sequence flying is done by all. So a flyer gives the judges his sequence and he is judged according to the level of difficulty of the maneuver and finesse of the maneuver. Points have already been laid down for each maneuver and grading would not be a difficult task.

yes....completely with you on this one....this one goes in next years proposal too...and we will definitely need a qualified judge for this....Smiley

Quote
Once this thing picks up…. Sponsors would not hesitate to be a part of the event. They would also get their mileage from the increased participation. And a lot of people would like to be a part of such a novel sport as aeromodelling. In the mean time all of us can pitch in to find sponsors for a national aeromodelling competition.

Sponsors hesitate to sponsor this meet sir that too at such a commercial level where we are at par with most of international events....i know the efforts being put by the team every year to get the sponsors....still, not much luck....hope, it will be easier to get sponsors for national aeromodelling competition...

Quote
Taking help of other clubs and organizations would strengthen the aeromodelling network in India and sometime in the near future India could become one of the venues for international competitions. Don’t u think that is a distinct possibility.

this has started to happen since last year right since the WI's affiliation with ACI. more tie ups may happen this year....venue for international competitions, mmmm, difficult to say....so many things involved especially getting thru authorities....dont see it happen in near future....

Quote
Wings India need not be the only organization to host events of this magnitude but the bottom line is that Wings India is one of the very few organizations, that actually has the capability to host an event as big as this.

yes, i agree....will make sure that organizers read this and hope they will implement things in common interest in future events....

« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 03:48:32 PM by anwar » Logged
 

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« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2011, 04:50:10 PM »
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Ron...

yes dude....everything is not perfect....there is a lot of room for improvement...i understand and agree....and anwar sir, really a hearty thanks cause i certainly understand what people think about the hobby through this site....

i feel there is a difference between suggestion and sarcasm....dont forget that loads of people read these sites and the way things are put, what sort of impressions will it create on the people who has not visited the event and plan to visit next year....?? "oh chuck it...who wants to visit an event which just demonstrates a regular sunday flying....?"...as is, the so called rich people involved in this "CIRCUS" already have a spoilt name....and let me tell you, 80% of the flying fraternity around the country thinks of Aamby event as described above....and amongst many other reasons, this was one for less participation....what we write on open forums like these does have an effect on reader....

Quote
now coming to clear my point. "sunday flying" -  i have been visiting this awesome event for 3 years ever since i have started this sport, it was the first time i came as a participant. So i felt that putting all this effort of preparing, packing and traveling with the plane/planes wasn't worth it. its not about getting a slot to fly. i would have rather come as a visitor which i always will as aamby valley is the only meet in india where you can learn so much from each other and see so many great aircrafts, flying etc etc ...

the competitions were cancelled on the last minute and it was not informed....wrong on the organizers part of not informing well in time or doing last minute cancellations.....but inspite of people not knowing that the competitions were cancelled, how many competition flyers turned up....?? and this was the reason they were called off and instead the time was reallotted....point taken sir, and a great drawback on organizers front for this...it would have been better if one would have witnessed it as a visitor...but people saw you fly....as a team, in a team and thats what makes your team stand out....would i or anyone else have had the same impression about your team if only harveer would have flown....?? and what if every flyer in the country starts thinking like you....?? we all talk of camaraderie and supporting this hobby....how will it happen if people start taking these stand....??

Quote
if you say "aamby valley is all about giant stuff" does that mean people with less than 50cc should not participate in the meets ? i have no sweat since i am moving to 100cc but what about the "i repeat myself 80-90% of India's aeromodelers who have smaller glow models" ? is it not a bit unfair and i am speaking for the masses here not for myself. i enjoy watching a smaller craft flying just as much as i enjoy watching a giant.

ya, even i enjoy watching smaller aircraft fly...but most of the visitor dont....y will someone visit a remote destination hundreds of kms away, with all the hardwork to watch small aircrafts fly....?? aditya flew so well, but y did his flying went un-noticed....?? I clarified my point about giant stuffs with doc in my previous post....and how many giant scale flyers got appreciated in the meet....?? biren, varun, umesh uncle, sandeep, Mr. jahagirdar, your team, nandan and so many went un noticed....these were all flyers flying 50cc and above or jets...where is the question of being biased....?? and look at the brighter side of it, you are moving into a 100cc category...maybe we are in for some more surprises from indore next year....Smiley

Quote
I have seen your immense hard work at aamby where everyone always calls out your name and needs you for everything. truly i must say this event would not even be half for what it is if it wouldn't be for you. Even though you were immensely buisy during the event 'managing AND flying'. u still got the time to be a great host. so hats off to you  Salute i have no complaints at all

I m out of words and dont know how to take this one....but thank you....i really appreciate your kind words....btw, my name was being called only by umesh uncle cause i was flying his piper....everything else was just normal where my name was being called for other back end activities....i have grown big with this event and have learnt so much since last so many years of my association with it...and this event would have grown in the same manner, with our without me...or anyone for that matter...

voting has only 5 normal points to vote to and everything is fine with the poll...i myself agree that there is room for improvement....if not catering to mass flyers in india, this meet may become a trade fair in the future... who knows...but the poll doesnt has any remarks that creates negativity in the whole process....which probably is reflected in this thread replies....

i wouldnt have been writing so much either if it was not for the love of the sport and my love for this meet which has done so so much to improve this sports standard in our country. guys, you will not believe the kind of recognition we have internationally now....i have been to two international events last year, one was Jet Power 2010 and other was UAE TOPJETS....the kind of treatment indian team got at both these place was outstanding....they respect us so much, respect our flying, our culture....i interacted with so many international flyers at these two places and they all want to be a part of this event...it feels so great and proud at that moment....seems like an achievement...and they all know us by the name Wings India and this meet....

dont want to drag on to this one as it may go on and on forever....it certainly pinches with few remarks that were made in this thread....i m sure if senior organizers read this, they wouldn't like it either....

anyways, extremely sorry again for being direct....and as we all say, its for the love of the sport...

wasi
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 06:25:03 PM by anwar » Logged
 

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« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2011, 05:39:18 PM »
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guys let me ask you one question only in reverse ?
can i have 10 guys here who are willing to join the MC of team WI and pitch in the funds for organising the event ?

the reason is that WI barely receovers 25% of its expense
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« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2011, 07:37:24 PM »
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Never been there, so I am certainly under qualified to comment... here goes anyways !

1.  Competitions like limbos (upright or inverted) but using ONLY small foamy electrics is a fun competition, which many people can participate without the risk of losing too much money in the event of crashes.  Some how the very slow (high alpha / harrier) ones will need to be excluded, otherwise people will just prop hang their planes slowly underneath.

2.  It is clear that a larger audience (participants or just visitors) is for everyone's best interests.  So it would help to reduce the time allocation and shed some of the focus on the jets and big gassers, and accommodate the smaller one in a more prominent fashion.  One full day of smaller sizes flying would certainly pique interest the of "aam janta".

3.  A scale modelling competition will always be good, even if there ends up being only a single participant.

4.  Fear of fair judging should not be a factor in deciding events.  There is a saying in Kerala which goes roughly as "there will be 2 opinions even if you beat your mother"... just try the best you can to be fair, and that's it. The standard technique of having 5 judges and then removing the least and highest scores to remove biases may be employed.

Certainly planning to attend next year !
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2011, 11:14:18 PM »
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guys let me ask you one question only in reverse ?
can i have 10 guys here who are willing to join the MC of team WI and pitch in the funds for organising the event ?

the reason is that WI barely receovers 25% of its expense

Puneet, I'm already on it, since we came back from Amby and have been talking to a few people. Will get back to you as soon as I have something concrete. Could we make up a list of organizations or companies that we as aeromodellers or on an individual basis can talk to?
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2011, 11:27:22 PM »
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Mr. Ratan Tata---I
Dr. Vijay Malya---I--> Patrons and benefactors for aeromodelling in India as all have been flyers
Mr. Singhania-----I
Coke
Pepsi
Oil companies like Shell,
Maybe Tower and Hobby king
Some distileries and Breweries
Maybe companies like Thunder tiger and ASP

Just some of the names that come to my mind. People who have contacts can maybe approach them and hopefully work out winning propositions.
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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2011, 12:30:46 AM »
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here is where we come back to the Q that who is going to follow it up year round !!

all we can say is been there done that !! with personal contacts and event mgmt guys etc etc at all !!

that is why the no 1 suggestion of getting 10 guys pan india on the events MC
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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2011, 01:14:31 AM »
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Bossman,  were any of the aeromodellers from other places taken into confidence and were any of them invited to be a part of the MC? Just asking to get my facts clear as to not finding like minded people and not having support of the rest of India in making this event a success.


P.S You were missed a lot by one and all and specially all of us from Indore.
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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2011, 10:36:27 AM »
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P.S You were missed a lot by one and all and specially all of us from Indore.

i second that doc.
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« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2011, 02:56:34 PM »
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With sponsors like Pepsi, etc., it is a "chicken/egg" situation. They will spend if there are enough spectators but how do we attract people without spending?

I have a suggestion. Wings India could have two events. One for the domestic modellers with the Amby valley meet left somewhat exclusive - the way it is at present, and possibly made a biennial event. Expenses for such an event would be  much lower and , at the same time, you would rake in more via sponsorship.  Revenue from entry tickets would also be more because of sheer numbers.You would have much more participation and, likely, spectators in thousands. The competitions could be held on one or two days with "fun fly" and demos for the public on the final day.


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« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2011, 06:08:16 PM »
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more votes would bring us to a good conclusion
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« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2011, 06:17:27 PM »
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This voting is only for people who have visited, right ? 
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« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2011, 01:29:49 AM »
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Nope, any and every one can vote. In fact if a lot of people voted we would have a clearer picture as to what people expect from such events so that future events may be planned in an easier manner.
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« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2011, 10:50:31 AM »
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Nope, any and every one can vote. In fact if a lot of people voted we would have a clearer picture as to what people expect from such events so that future events may be planned in an easier manner.

How can someone comment who has not been there ? Do we just need numbers here ? or are we looking for some useful feedback
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« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2011, 10:53:35 AM »
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+1 Gaurav... the poll options are strictly tailored to people who have already been there (and it sounds like "this year" also) Head Scratching
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« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2011, 05:13:56 PM »
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Ok yep they were made after coming back from Amby, but then a person who has not been to Amby would not be able to give a justified opinion also. Going through the thread, maybe wrong, but what I have understood is that, whatever the opinion, of the general public, the organizers would be the best judges as to what the event should be. No amount of public suggestions wil change the format of the same.

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« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2011, 08:35:13 PM »
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doc. i think u r the most passionate person about this hobby that i have ever seen... and can u believe it guys ? he has only been in this hobby since 2 years and flying since only ONE YEAR  Salute  Clap  Bow
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« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2011, 11:09:31 PM »
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Thanks Aaron, i came to the field in Jan 2010 and started flying in March 2010. Guess at this time passion is the one thing I've got. Skill, I still have to get hehe.
See u back soon, and get that 100 cc with u.
Doc
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« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2011, 07:30:27 AM »
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its people like YOU who are needed in aeromodeling in India. People who dont just talk of making change but also do and try their best to do so.
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« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2011, 10:50:16 AM »
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First of all my congratulations to the organisers for hosting such a grand event. In terms of location aamby valley seems to be the perfect place. My SUGGESTION to the organisers is, since the objective of the meet seems to be more of a display thing rather than a competition; why not invite an internationally acclaimed judge instead of one international flyer. The judge will be able to help us improve our performance in terms of pattern flying,aerobatics etc... . Plus the money spent on the judge will be much less than a pilot and help us in our weak areas Smiley

Also I noticed some major breaches in terms of safety. Jet pilots regularly directed their jet exhausts towards the spectators or the viewing area close to the runway(the one where some type of fence were setup where the press were shooting). also a couple of times the airplane flew over to the spectator side  which I think is quite risky.

overall the event is great but unless some sort of new concepts are introduced spectators and flyers are going to loose interest
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« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2011, 11:29:49 PM »
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Hi All,
Sorry for just jumping in. I have seen most of the threads and have suggestions/observations if the event needs to be conducted.

1. If we need to organize an event, then first we need to have the confirm volunteers/stake holders who can give time from start/end of it.
2. Location: Location should be across some metro city so that it's convenient to travel from all locations.
3. The challenge is of the good location and accommodation of participant. for that i suggest that if we can talk to the engineering college/boarding school in that location, then the ground/accommodation issue can be solved. Like in lonavala there are already many institutions. This events will also help this institution to come in press, so no one mind (i think so)
4. Depending upon the above the budget should be calculated, as location and occupancy we will come to know.
5. The plans/options of competition/meet can be finalized one the above 4 points are done. As from entry fees to everything depends upon how the venue is finalized.

we already have the banner of RC India, so don't need any other name, but the invitation should be sent to all the other known forums/groups, as the motive is to get all Indian aero molders associated with each other via such event, as they can always participate in there regional/local events. It's not a compulsion but  association meet to all.

now regarding the sponsor and all, it would be good if we have #1-#4 done to get better sponsorship, as we already done our homework. This can be result in lower entry fees and arrangements of events.

Sponsor can be like - media partner, travel, radio fm etc. as initial first year we should not expect much sponsorship but next year may be it would be good, as we already have a showcase to show. Again, the purpose of sponsorship should not be making money but to use of the money to accommodate more and more participates with low or no entry fees. (Again this can be finalize with the project stake holders, it's just a thought)

I may be wrong on many places but i strongly feel that unless this is not taken as project and have the confirmed project owners, then it won't be possible to make a good meet.

Regards,
~Anand
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« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2011, 12:17:26 AM »
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we already have the banner of RC India, so don't need any other name, but the invitation should be sent to all the other known forums/groups

The banner should be of whichever group/club/city is organizing the event, period.  All credit is due where it matters, to the people who put in the effort !
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« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2011, 12:56:20 AM »
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The banner should be of whichever group/club/city is organizing the event, period.  All credit is due where it matters, to the people who put in the effort !

Yes, the banner name can be finalized by the major stake holders/owners of the event.
 
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« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2011, 08:49:54 AM »
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does it really matter what name? it matters that every one has a good time, everyone is satisfied and goes back home happy planning to come back next year.
I think us as aeromodelers believe only in meeting new aeromodelrs and try to promote this hobby as much as we can and to have a great time doing it. that should be the core purpose of an aeromodeling meet.
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« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2011, 09:01:58 AM »
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Well said @@ron, Whatever is done or would be done for promoting aeromodelling in India, would in the long run, benifit the whole fraternity.

Isn't "I, Me, Myself" already too much. Sometime in the years to come a permanent body, with representation from all over India, may be formed, (On the lines of AMA), with a rule book etc. That would bring more aceptance and support for this hobby. Hope it happens soon.  Grin
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« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2011, 09:08:01 AM »
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I think if the event is able to conduct in educational institutes then this hobby will be automatically attract the mass of students, and changing event location to different institution every year may help.

Also, on other side, such things should be conducted by the regional/local clubs, as the global meet events can create the news but main attraction is only when some one see it, which can be accomplished better by regional/local clubs.  
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