During the National aeromodeling meet at Karnal on the 19th/20th.Nov.2011, It is proposed to moot the idea of forming an all India Federation of Aeromodelers which will include the club secretaries/resellers/dealers and prominent aeromodelers to deliberate upon the formation of a single national body to represent the broader interest of all aeromodelers in the country concerning current and future issues with the Govt.bodies and the public perception of the hobby.

If you are unable to attend please feel free to send your opinion problems to the president@amai.in ,so your point of view can be kept in mind-the greater and broader involvement will help formulate a good preamble for the Federation in support of the hobby.Your participation is important to the future of the hobby.

appreciate this step sir...!

Mee too.. 

basic question?
how different will this be from the existing role of AMAI?...

regards
sujju

the federation will include representatives from all clubs /associations and dealers/resellers and prominent aeromodelers to form a platform to deliberate upon issues and work at solutions-AMA will be a part of it as also wings India and others.

This would make them all feel part of a decision making body and strengthen the cause of AMA and the fraternity,we will get a more balanced approach.

Opinions on alternate paths to the same objective are welcome.

How it should be structured,members by election/selection/tenure of members/location of headquarters/scope of activity etc are the initial process of foundation to begin with and we grow from there.

The purpose of putting it on this forum is to solicit views on the subject.

So give us your feed back-it is valuable to the community of aeromodelers. 

sir,
    first I thank and congratulate you for doing this.If you could elaborate the benefits to the modellers I would thankful ofcourse you must have put it already but persons like me who are not really computer savvy it is difficult hence this request.
     Also please tell us how much will be the outgoing per year for a modeller.
wishing you success in this endaevor which will benefit modellers like me
    thanks,
            HH narayanrao KNS

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

It costs nothing to be an active participant and give your views,it is your option.

Let the aeromodelers take the initiative to make the hobby safe and structured.

Since AMAI is going no where - seems like an effort to give it a new life under a different avatar!!!!!!! And may be collect some more funds ;-)

AMA is progressing well ,this proposal comes from other clubs and senior flyers,and AMA would be a constructive partner.

sir,
I am new on this forum and from reading the posts it looks like many are not in favour of Federation Or AMAI  May I get enough information to form a opinion for myself And Why is this Safety concern . Are many Aeromodellers not responsible / Irresponsible persons.  I do not think so I believe that Aeromodeling being a difficult hobby if you really go deep in to it Allmost all Aeromodellers are wise, down to earth and very responsible people and are a very helping lot among other things.
Lte me know others views to form my opinion
   HH Narayanrao KNS

Seems a good idea but I think the more important need will be to set up a task force to spread the hobby and come up with Ideas to do so rather that trying to form various layers with  similar functions .

Nagar Sir , I think it would make more sense to find ways to grow the number of members than trying to organize existing ones . In my opinion those existing aero modelers  who intended to become members   would have done so already and those who have not till now are unlikely to do so . Each has their reasons either way  and skeptics and critics are entitled to their points of view as well.
So I personally  would welcome setting up of this federation  if it is tasked with the mandate to enhance its membership base through innovative out of the box means rather than  being Old wine in new bottle.

Sai

Many share the views of HH,yes we are responsible and intelligent people,the major issues why the subject of AMA or federation is important are:

1.Indiscriminate ownership of transmitters (of all frequencies)-a grave public risk in the eyes of the security.

2.Model aircraft can cause damage to person or property.

What we(aeromodelers) are being asked is.:-

1.Do you have a record of transmitter owners used for aeromodeling?

2.In case of damage to person or property,is there an insurance cover?

We are saying-one should join AMA or similar club and the club should become a member of the federation if formed,so the aeromodeler becomes a recorded and known entity.

The clubs have the discretion of joining the federation if they feel that it helps them address larger and common interest of the community to the authorities.

Aeromodeling is growing at a good pace ,let us take the initiative to self regulate so we can may be considered worthy of a decision making process when the govt.authorities want to bring it under their ambit.

I am not aware of what percentage of aeromodelers in India read this forum ,this is a larger debate-does it favour us?or it binds us ?
is it useful in the long ?should we continue the way we are doing today -do we need to change? and so on and so forth-think!!

This is actually hilarious. So a flier will need to be member of a local club, then AMA and then this Federation ?

All that is said above was the role of AMA, which seems to have failed in their efforts to unite and bring the various RC clubs in India.

I think they lost their steam after the first couple of months wherein they got N.Delhi members and some others from Punjab/Haryana.

<Quote>
the federation will include representatives from all clubs /associations and dealers/resellers and prominent aeromodelers to form a platform to deliberate upon issues and work at solutions-AMA will be a part of it as also wings India and others.
</Quote>
This is exactly what AMA-I had planned to do !

Looks like its acknowledged that they failed to do that, and that AMA is a N.Delhi centric club only. Thus need another umbrella body.

Well Well Well. I guess it would be good if instead of forming all these clubs people put in their energies to actual building/flying and enjoy that, rather than the club-politics.

Nice. So clubs pay fee to BOTH AMA and this federation ? Isnt safety the prime concern of AMA ? Or do you accept in writing that its failed to do that, thus we need another body ?

All of us desire that model airplanes be permitted to continue operating in the national aerospace,however for that are we a cohesive body,working within a defined framework to have details and data available , when confronted by the regulatory authorities?

AMA  is not about individuals and the number of members across the country,it is about protecting our rights to use airspace safely and to guarantee the safe and sound operation of model aircraft in the country,let us collectively prevent model Aviation from being sucked into the black hole of regulation.The time to act is now.

The goal is to bring our small community of aeromodelers together.And thats the spirit we love to hear about.

So if there is AMA taking care of these issues, and bringing the small community of aeromodellers together, why the talk about another federation ?

Isnt AMA capable enough to address the things you yourself say above ?

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

 

   I agree with flyingboxcar. Why so many organisations telling us to do this and do that we are doing responsible modelling for years without any issue. It looks like creating a Authority for benefit of few
     HH narayanrao KNS

My Rejoinder.
I have voiced it in not so many words earlier as well


all FM guys are careful at the field, lest they have a lock out. all small toys (including some of the toy helicopter sold by Heliflier) is 2.4 G Hz, lot of non RC Stuff are 2.4 G Hz. It is a commercially cleared frequency in India, What discrimination can we enforce, I remember when i was a small boy , my father had a big valve based radio and he had a license for it, he used to visit closest wireless office once in a while and buy a Revenue stamp looking ticket and stick it on the passport looking license book, is that what we are talking about ? i really wonder how will this body enforce apartheid on RC community, if possible could it be elaborated,  please.


It is a statutory warning (Like the one on the cigarette box) that is there on all aeromodel related eqpt (on , Engine, models, motor, etc , sometimes in English, sometimes in Chinglish). What can this body do to minimise that risk all across the country. ? By being Restrictive ?


Is it Humanly possible ? does anyone know the volume of toys with remotes being dumped into India everyday ? all frequencies ? can this body record Tx being dumped into India in a day, or is it that only Futaba 14 MZs and above will be kept a record of ?


and the model ? person or property is covered by normal insurance why RC insurance, if anything it should be for the model and the radio. if it is so, it will be too good to be true,


Should ? and discretion ? contradictory ? no ? a club which does not join will be an independent unrecorded body so will their members. is the purpose solved ?


This is inevitable, sooner or later it will happen. when it does, it is out of the reach of many who are working on a shoe string budget. a free spirit will still find a way to fly, if not in a aeroplane , outside it. federation or no federation.

In fact federation will be engaged in petty politics when the axe comes down, it is mass movement from  free spirits through forums like this that will / can make a difference.


having said this, in the subsequent lines, sir, you somewhat questioned the very existence of it.

my rebuttal sir, in an attempt to see the other side of the coin.

PS
then there are free spirits like us, who enjoy long Runways , unrestricted air space and peace of mind to fly.

PPS
My RC Pupil and a Model for my Addiction X

+1 augustin.

North block tells south and east are not structured, and south and east always avoid (hate?) north lobby... bla bla.... bla....   --there is no end of this leg pooling, gauravang.

But here we have united to share experience to minimise expenditure. Though fedaration needs funding, I always prefer Donation rather than fixed contribution as major part of modellers here works on thin budget and they cannot spend like other prefessionals.

At least i will not join rather than back old day free flight gliders.

   Augustinev,
          I entirely in agreement with you sir,In fact I am happy someone is able to say in that many words what I wanted to say,Thanks
          I know a couple of modellers who own fields which are more than 150 acres in size and are their personal property There so many have their friends fly models If restriction on hobby comes i will use some friends to allow me to fly with them as it is I am not into Giant planes.
          Thank you Mr Augustinev for your views
    HH Narayanrao KNS

good to see some people sending in their responses,are you aware how the following affect our activity:

in the US:FAA,AMA,FCC

in the UK:CAA,BMFA(bmfa.org),RAC

do take some time to go through bmfa.org and learn about the elements involved ,we could take some clues from these.

and so on in many countries in the world,What is FAI ,its role in aerosports?
What is ACI,why should it be a member of FAI?

Read about these organisations and see how they are structured towards aeromodeling.

a lot us of keep cribbing about WPC control of frequency/import issues -which one of you or which organisation is approaching these agencies with a proper case to represent your cause?

Why not some of you take your time and energy to prepare a proper case/reasoning to support your activity and think beyond yourself and the activity at large and its future-that could be more constructive!

Its not about what a small handful feel or think.

Extract of the letter by Mr.More,chairman Wings-India of Mumbai:

Forwarded hereunder is a news letter Received from Mr. Vijendra Nagar - President Aero Modelers Association (AMA) in regard to the forthcoming Karnal meet being organised by them on the 19-20 Nov. AMA is also an affiliated body of Wings India as well a member of Aero Club Of India.
 
The excellent work being done by Mr. Nagar and his team  is certainly very commendable  and needs all encouragement and support from the entire Aero modelers fraternity of our country. We should participate wholeheartedly and in maximum nos. I know that lot of modelers face problems with the logistics and are reluctant, but I am sure this much perseverance and patience we need to demonstrate for a sport so dear to us. After all we are a small minority in a very large society, and unless we consolidate, our very existence some times is at risk, due to the ignorance and inability of the masses and the media in comprehending the true benefits and the passion of this hobby/sport.
 
I particularly, strongly subscribe, to the idea of forming a 'Indian RC Aeromodelers federation' of all clubs, bodies and association, who may, in any collective way, be contributing to the furtherance of this sport. Such a federation could then act as a effective platform to address the misconceptions and genuine greiviences of our community with the government authorities and the administrative arm. We stand a much better chance of being heard if we stand joinly.

   So mote it be
    HH n KNS

hi,

Sandeep here from pune. im Gen.sec for Pune Aeromodellers Association. we are completing 5yrs and have around 100 members.

currently we are in process of forming a Aerosport society of India. this society will support all aerosport activities and become a regulatory body in enforcing safety regulations and be a common platform for all rc pilots, pargliders, paramotors and glider pilots to associate as one body and make things easy for all.

we are currently supported by the DGCA authorities here in pune in this process and as per their guidelines we will very soon be registering the ASI.

regds

   Congratulations Mr. Sandeep Bajare For the work done and Efforts put in .
Sir would you tell us the procedure to become a member of Poona Aeromodellers Association.
   Looking forward to your reply.

    thanking you,
     hhnarayanrao

hi,

To be a paa member, simply fill a form alongwith 2 photos and fee of Rs.1000/-

if interested let me know ur email. will send the form

regds

Superb Effort..Congratulations..

Happy Diwali everyone..

good effort sandeep

on a lighter note
 is this the paa we are talking about ?

Good one Gusty.
The need for an Honest and trustworthy aeromodelling federation is very much there and it is about time too. But IMO the catch phrase is "Honest and Trustworthy."

Doc

Congratulations Sandeep in making the effort of making a club and helping the aeromodeling activity.

What support is given by DGCA in Pune?

What is ASI(full form) and how is it involved with Aeromodeling?

We could use your knowledge to be a part of our program for promoting the cause of aeromodeling in India.

hi,

ASI means Aerosports Society of India.

Here in pune we are having all aerosport activities on one single ground. like aeromodelling, paragliding, paramotoring, microlights and conventional gliding. due to the increased response in all the fields lately.
it has been oberved that a common body is needed to monitor all the activities and enforce safety regulations and be a single point of contact for all aerosport activities between the dcga authorities.

the DCGA authorities here are very co-operative and have broadly envisioned the aerosport scenario. if today we do not form a united aerosport society and raise a voice for our existence very soon all the commercial activities will overtake and make us extinct. hence this body is being formed so that all aviators come under one banner and raise a voice for thier very own existence.

Aero club of india is not at all interested in promoting aerosport activities and has become a commercial organisation playing its own cards in its own region. the other states are left at their own destiny.

we need aviators from all fields to unite and raise a single voice against the babu's in delhi who are only interested to eat the cream. no one there is interested if u do aeromodelling or other aerosport activities. as long as their pockets fill their is no concern.

customs have their own mood of taxing our items. the national security looks at all aerosport activites as part of terrorism activity. there are no clear rules and regulations for aerosports neither is it taken in positive by authorities.

the topic is never ending and will go on forever. just request all members to kindly think on this.

hope the message is clear.

regds
sandeep.

there is one more club in Pune called BAAP (Baner Aeromodellers Association Pune) headed by Mohan.

where does BAAP  come in between and how does it help . and headed by mohan 

we are talking about a one big society at all india level. 100's of associations will be formed which are of no use.

sbajare sir

We need to unite like RCIndia as true hobbiest and not like the body that can be easily governed by some commercial personnels working preferably for their own interest and sometime others like us only to survive themselves as united body.

As a never ending thread, I shall not post any remark after this if not absolutely required.

BAAP never comes in between and helps by educating newbies to stay away from PAA. All under able guidance of Mohan

To my thinking, if true, that would actually be "coming in between" !

Ok, correction it does come in between; and that's about all I know

fyi,

PAA has been formed in 2006 by aeromodellers who have been in this field for past 20+yrs.  with an objective to promote aeromodelling amongst the new and old generation. we are successfully completing 5 yrs and backed by the very support of Gliding center, the only mother center in India with an area of 230 acres. nowhere in india is there such a facility.

i am surprised that BAAP is following Mohan  good pls go ahead my compliments and best of luck to BAAP

( Still waters run deep )
this is what mohan had said about PAA. lets c who runs deep. time will tell.

Mohan has been blacklisted by PAA and we very well know what he is. The gliding center authorities here have taken indisciplinary action against him for interfering in thier matters.

with such negative members on this forum who are only looking for passing the time. i cannot say much but wish best of luck for BAAP 

PAA is well off and growing.

regds

Is PAA registered?understand it was initiated by Chief Instructor Gliding club to have some control on field users.
the idea of ASI was also initiated about a year back by him-any progress on this front?

Currently Aeromodelling does not come under DGCA,Having Aviation background ,Know most of the people in DGCA headquarters in Delhi and other areas.

To give an adverse comment on ACI,without knowing its composition and activity is unjust,aircrafts and gliders at many clubs in India have been provided by ACI,there could be one at Pune.It is not a regional body.

They have recently appointed consultant aeromodelling to provide better support to this activity.

We should all make efforts towards a better consolidation,for the benefit of all.

 

Bajare Sir,
Correction, I am not the head of Baner Aeromodellers Association Pune (BAAP). Praddy Sir is the chief out there . I am a beginner. How can I head an  Aeromodellers Association . Dont you realise that SunLikeStar is pulling your leg ? Amit aka SunLikeStar flies at Baner and is very well informed about your PAA outfit by those who fly at Baner.  
Anyway all those who fly at Baner have had very bad experiences at Pune Aeromodellers Association (PAA). This includes me too. I can elaborate at length if you wish to have your dirty linen washed here. I can ask the others also at BAAP to share their experiences of being associated with you. Remember Ranjit Bhaskaran? He can write reams of his association with you. For the uninformed, Mr. Bhaskaran is a retired gentleman who lost two brand new glow trainers while flying at PAA due to frequency clashes. Ever heard of lightning striking the same place twice . Well, Thats the way PAA is run .
Blacklisted ? I never got any kind of communique to that effect. I guess thats the way you run your body. I guess my career is finished now, huh >? Believe me, I am shattered ...I cannot recall getting listed after paying your membership fees . HILARIOUS. What have you got to say about the 20 odd flyers at BAAP who have blacklisted you ?  Ever wondered why flyers drive 20 odd kms to Baner when Hadapsar is a stones throw distance away from their homes ? Or, are they all blacklisted too ?
And I think generally one takes a disciplinary action not an indisciplinary one .
And at BAAP there are no charges for beginners to learn flying. Get the drift? Learning is free at BAAP and I guess thats the case all over the world unlike at your outfit where learners are fleeced.
Now, I have the dubious reputation of being the first aeromodeller to have been blacklisted in India or perhaps anywhere in the world . I will now have to live with this stigma for the rest of my life . I am truly devastated. I wonder if Anwar Bhai will also blacklist me . On the lighter side I have a first to my credit .    
And yes, Baner Aeromodellers Association Pune is also well off and growing , thanks to you...
  

  Sir.
 This is looking like wrestling arena .Everybody Please come out with Views as to what small group of aeromodellers should do in smaller cities or should I say developing villages . To me Joining a organisation at a very distant place looks useless . Because we have to deal at local level. ofcourse as a umbrella organisation it may be good. But if the fees run in thousands then forming a local group and going to the private fields sounds as a good idea As it is there is no dirth of flying areas in mofussil and the people out there are helpful.
    Happy landings to every modeller.
 If anybody is hurt because of my writting my heartfelt appologies . As it is english is not my mother toung I might have written something and meant else
    Thanks.
   HH Narayanrao KNS

Hi Narayanrao,
I will bet my last dime that this new federation joke is going to ask for money first, talk later >. They must have for all you know have exhausted their resources fleecing beginners. This is the same old wine in a new bottle, believe me . Knowing them they would be serving you old wine in an OLD bottle... >...Passing time, by the way ... The people involved cannot keep their own house in order in Pune wherein we have two associations and they want to run a national setup ? These guys would give Russel Peters and the like a run for their money ...
This sad accident also happened at Hadapsar...
http://www.punemirror.in/index.aspx?page=article&sectid=62&contentid=2011102920111029060417762a99d7648
Regards,
Mohan

Anwar ,
Please make a separate thread for the  Pune SLUGFEST  going on on this thread .
So that the thread of AMAI does not get hijacked by the Pune Warriors it will also help them to have their own RCIPL which can go on between themselves.


I think the AMAI FED discussion can go on separately .

From the looks of it Aero Modeling Organization seems to be quite a topic for a research in sociology   there are  more fights and ego clashes than there are associations  at all locations in the country .      

  to all the office bearers of all the associations around India , you guys must be really hard pressed  to hold the association big or small together with this kind of  Slugging .

I apologize  in advance if any ones ego is going to be hurt by this post  

 

Sai

Sai,
No, this is all about Federations AMAI, ASI, ACI and the like all over the place...Why would you want to split it up...I had nothing to do with this till my name came up, Blacklisted ...and the person involved who is one of my best pals > wanted to set up his own federation...I will absolve from any further discussions on this thread if there an issue with my comments ...lest I be blacklisted here as well... >... For all you know what the hell, I may set up my own federation ...who does not want extra money ?

+ 1

Proof of the pudding

What is the connection? Only thing in common, that I can see is, "Hadapsar". So?

wow.. that was fun reading :-)...
hope we can get this thread back to its original discussion.

Sushil bhai - It is a bit subtle to catch, but the implied issue is that Hadapsar is not a well managed place, and safety/security is not where it should be.  When people lose planes due to frequency conflicts again and again, that shows a lack of organization, enforcement and probably communication between members. Every such incident is also a safety issue. 

In short, the implication seems to be that Hadapsar has issues that show up as unfortunate issues from time to time (whether RC or not)

Have you ever heard a derailed train..coming back to the original track......derailed train and talks both have their own destiny......

guys ! accidents happen every where all the time. no matter how much secuirty is put into place, even terrorists have their way out at times.
all that one can do is to keep security guide lines in place and hope to see members comply by them. it is not physically possible to keep a check on each and every individual at all times.
lets not black each other here. it has no end and each one is right from their perspective.
our indian driving conditions are a firm example of this when you see two vehicle owners arguing and trying to teach each other the rules and hell breaks loose. the traffic dept has set rules and regulations in place but its we who do not obey them and drive rashly. they road authority cannot deploy a traffic eye for each and every driver on the street. so lets all grow up and see the bigger picture and move on. lets not get stuck up at these junctures in life.
this goes for both the sides of pune !   

cheers guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hi,

fyi,

Pls note that hadapsar is a very well managed place. It is the mecca for all aeropsort activities. no where in india will you enjoy the benefit of flying safely and having to spare 230acres of flat land.

just like  second_chance added that safety rules and regulations are put in place. it is we who are to follow it.

the para glider accident in pune was an unfortunate one and never in history it has happened before. so that does not make hadapsar a mismanaged place. thousands die in road accidents everyday so what can you say on that. are the roads to be blamed or the authorities.

infact aviation related deaths are by far very less and all are related to pilot error. you do not read of  air accidents daily and when it happens even the DCGA authorities point up to the Lord of the Universe.

coming back to the topic of forming the federation. we here have already started the process of forming the Aerosports Association of India.

the objectives is mainly to streamline all aeroport activities like aeromodelling, paragliding & motoring, gliding and microlights. the AAI will form a bridge between end users and the legislative bodies i.e DGCA.
the idea is to simplify processes so that endusers are benefitted, rather than spend time running behind authorities for thier related permissions.

we have a lot of other things in mind and once registered will tackle things one by one. we want to safeguard the spirit of aerosport community so that it can be enjoyed without sacrificing safety rules and regulations. 

the future of aerosport activities are in grave danger if we do not unite today.tomorrow maybe too late.

Interested people are invited to kindly back the movement and support for the better tomorrow of aeroports.

henceforth no comments. will keep updated.

thanks

Still cannot connect the two. The paraglider was a rare accident in the history of the club which, supposedly started in 1981. They would then be considered as having an excellent track record.

But more to the point. They do not seem to have ANYTHING to do with aeromodelling activities and there does not appear to have been negligence on their part.

To sound like a needle stuck in a record groove, I still  see no connection any which way I look at it.

good point sushil bhai i agree with you.

cannot say much. again topic will drift 

anyway i have put my points in previous post.

hope people become serious now.

regds

I sort of disagree. We have created a free club, 3 Kms long Runway given to aeromodellers to fly for free, entry free, all MHz guys hang their frequency tag on the board, people coming in just look at the tag and wait for their turn if common, and fly. free electricity, free basic amenities, food at cost price (Cup of tea for 2 Rs, 5 Rs a Samosa etc) ten times the size of real estate you are talking about. anyone near Calcutta are most welcome to fly there, just gimme a tinkle, and this runway is all yours to fly. like Aamir says in 3I, "Woh bhi FREE FREE FREE".

Not in anyway belittling your effort, which is immense

  Augustinev sir,
   Most commendable work. You are like messiah of Aeromodelling. We will work
on following your path .
  Thanks
hhnarayanrao KNS

Rao Garu,
Thanks, but no way, that is not true about me, there are a lot of people in this forum who are doing bigger , better yeoman service to this hobby, in fact little drops of water makes the mighty ocean, in our little way, we all are doing something, i sort of believe in free community, that's my dream , share and have, something like linux community

every city has its own opinion. so keep posting 

In Calcutta,I remember,flying at the Maidan in Chauranghi,opposite Victoria Memorial, in the 50's,and also upto 1985(Delhi)-all fields were free and flying space was not a problem,there were few flyers.

Then started the construction boom-no space,more modelers,frequency restrictions,import problems etc. etc.

These problems are now being faced by all of us in some measure-lets be one on how to tackle these and make aeromodeling successful.

Specific issues of regions will continue-lack of space,mentality of individuals/attitudes etc,but still the majority are right minded people who make the difference with positive steps,there is no dearth of them.