RC India

Lately I find a lot of people building models from available plans on the internet and passing them off as 'Scratchbuilt'. IMHO, that epithet should be reserved for models that are built without any external aids like available plans / dimensions of individual parts.

Whether you are fabricating entire models or parts from FG or Depron/Styro or Balsa or any 'waste' product is immaterial. The way I see it, "Scratchbuilt" models are those that are built by modellers without having any detailed plans (with detailed dimensions of individual parts) to refer to.

A boat built out of FG or Balsa based on available plans, again IMHO, should be have the nomenclature "Plan Built" and not be classed as Scratch Built. It is almost the same difference between a Limited Edition and a Custom Hand Built car.

If I did build a Depron F 14 from available Tomhe / Shumate plans, would it be a "Plan Built' or a "Scratch Built". I think, as per International classification, it would be the former.

Having built 3 scale 'Scartch built' Hovercrafts lately, I have realised the difference. I am sure, I am not the only one on this forum who feels this way.

However, I am an ancient puritan, how would you define it? Would love to hear your views.

Cheers!

For me scratch build is something you build from raw material and not from a kit. Now a scratch build can be "self designed" or "build from a plan".

Previous discussions :

http://www.rcindia.org/gas-glow-nitro-planes/chris-foss-extra-wot/msg15606/#msg15606

http://www.rcindia.org/gas-glow-nitro-planes/chris-foss-extra-wot/msg16266/#msg16266

http://www.rcindia.org/gas-glow-nitro-planes/chris-foss-extra-wot/msg17471/#msg17471

http://www.rcindia.org/gas-glow-nitro-planes/chris-foss-extra-wot/msg17495/#msg17495

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-india-forum/a-new-board-break-up-for-rc-india/msg58060/#msg58060

Thanks, my thoughts exactly.............

Calling Capt. Manish, over and out!

Upto what extents i feel, scratch built is something built from scratch materials. i.e. built from the materials which have no further use or the so called waste materials for other people.

I dont think it has anything to do with whether it has been buit from a pre-existing plan or its a self creation.
@ VC Sir, please correct me if i am wrong.

I wouldn't agree with this. The cannotation of the world 'Scratch' confused with a phoenitically similar word 'Scrap'.

Scratch building from a purist prespective is process of building a plane 'From Scratch' that is nothing, nada. It doesn't in miles means building from material which mean 'nothing' for you.

This process includes designing the plane considering the aerodynamics (static and dynamic) aspects like Aerofoil selection, CG estimation, designing the layout of its parts, selection of material, their alignment, relief, cuttign the parts, actual building/constructing the plane, and optionally test flying to change any parameters.

In all, I don't see many in the country doing it, at least those on the forum. With hardly over a year in R/C, with few Balsa plane 'Plan' build in various stages, I think Scratch build is an extremely skill demanding process. Either you have learned the ropes over the time, with building many planes over the time, or you are formally educated in the field of Aircraft. For others, its a very uphill task, with lot more failures than success.

Tribute to all who are still valuing it, in the fast food age of ARF/RTF.

I agree with VC. Scratch build is something original and starts from a clean sheet of paper. You scribble the plan, spend time in selecting the materials, work out how things are held together, calculate the required parameters of the model (wing area, thrust, preferred flying style,.. etc).. also you improvise on your previous designs / failures. In my view, its just pure creativity.

one fine day, you got up in the morning , cut some ribs out (without any plans scribbles etc), sanded it a bit , copied it multiple times, added a longeron, made a make shift fuse, settled for flat plate fin and tailplane, covered it with alu cover and painted it with enamel and flew it. what is it called ? "One of its kind built" ?

All my planes are scratch built -

covered in scratches from spinner to fin
with exhaust residue as dark as sin    ;D

I always thought scratch built is model built from parts cut with the aid of designs. This would be unlike assembling parts and engines and other spares reading available with kit. I think this "scratchuilt" terminology is being used even on other forums with the same understanding.keeping the design aspect aside the entire model can still be referred as Scratch built.
Maybe we can refer to the models built from design as "self-designed"

Shreekant

I too agree with this point.

I disagree with everyone who is mixing up scratch build with self design :)
So will these planes be called scratch build or not:
1. I saw a cool plane(RTF) on youtube and replicated it. I didnt had plans but i did ask the guy what his wing span and cord was.
2. I made a self designed SPAD which flew well. The wing was later damaged in a crash. For making the new wing i referred the plan of BUHOR.
3. What about a delta in which dimensions were decided using using flying wing cg calculator (http://fwcg.3dzone.dk/).
4. What about a quad/tri copter using existing and pre-designed control software and prefabricated control hardware, which i think are the most important units of it.
5. A plane called "scratch build easystar" made from foam sheets for which the dimensions were taken from mpx easystar.

my opinion:
1.self designed scratch build
2.scratch build using plan
3.kit build

There are some 'scratch builders' on this forum for planes and other craft. Serious ones at that. I  am NOT being sarcastic here. Ashta Sir, is one name that springs to mind. no offence meant to the others for not naming them here.

This topic was created to view different perspectives and perceptions of all concerned. We all have our own individual views - keep them flowing.


(Modified this post as some individuals may have misconstrued the original post. That was not my intention.)

is this why
http://www.rcindia.org/boats-kites-trains-and-all-others/scratch-build-atlas-van-lines-boat/msg64175/#msg64175

I repeat:

This topic was created to view different perspectives and perceptions of all concerned. We all have our own individual views - keep them flowing. :thumbsup:

In my view, scratch building would mean cutting out the formers, ribs etc., with or without plans. I am in total agreement with SLS on the - major - difference between designing and building.

Well!! I look at this way, even if one follows a design, more often than not, some modifications happen as the model progresses, so in that sense, there is a little bit of originality/creativity in thought process anyway.
I see no harm in calling calling a "build with someone else's design" as a scratch build.

hi guys.
I have always been led to understand 'scratch built could be with bought plans or with self design plans..........either way you still need plans..............
but no dye cut etc parts .......but............ major componants 'made' no 'bought'   so there we fall down..........do you make your own motors?
shaft are often home built as with props and some electronics............ but the model itself is built of fabrics not specificely for that purpose, but in this age of easy to come by 'proven' plans few go the design rout ....A....because of cost    and     B...because of time/skills
if you follow a set of 'self design or bought plans, but use 'whatever you have around for materials and convert to accomplish the finished item ie gun barrels ...pen/felt tip etc inners..... then this should be accepted as scratch built and others as self design.
this may be where over the last 50 or so years we have 'moved on' from what our grandparents used to do to accomplish the same.
but after all ............all to there own idea of what it is.
regards
don

VC,
Looks like you are up to getting me started on this again :giggle:

Waiting for your inputs Sir!

on a lighter note... one of the explanations of the word scratch in the oxford dictionary "rub (a part of one‘s body) with one’s fingernails to relieve itching:", similarly one of the definition of word 'buid' is "make or become stronger or more intense"

So what is "scratch build"???

Naughty boy!!! :giggle:

As they say - "Scratch an itch....." and it grows stronger.

http://www.india.growvc.com

all my flying wings and a few stick planes were made from useless  reaming of depron, thermocole and corro i had...
StarScream I,, StarScream II,, Blue Ace,, And Perky are examples of it
no plans  and designs of them exits

gr8 website akky, find of the evening

http://www.facebook.com/GrowVCIndia
Even has a facebook page  :giggle:

You two horrors (Gusty and Akky) wait till I catch you! :violent:

planning to grow VC in my Kitchen Garden. idea !! got after visiting the website  :giggle:

PS
Thanks Akky

That was my perspective too, until I heard differently.  That would bring up the earlier question, of "every plan build being a scratch build".

Come on Sir - which side are you REALLY on, stop being diplomatic! :giggle:

WITH or WITHOUT plans? Be honest! ;)


Btw, to all those individuals who are trying to grow VC as a vegetable, may your ground be doused with Agent Orange and may your fertiliser turn to Napalm. So there -  :thumbsdown: :giggle:

Bumping this thread... What will be considered for 5x chances this sweepstakes?

Should meet this condition:
Kaise banau?  :headscratch:

Seriously though, perhaps we need to differentiate between
Built from plans and own design.
Not a new issue.
But i'm sure Anwar sir has thought of a solution.

There were some heated and interesting exchanges on what is considered "scratch built". Dig a few years back and you would find. Should we not stick to the definition of the "word" even now?   

I thought that the amount and extent of 'jugaad' involved is directly proportional to the strength of the word 'scratch-built'. Right Iyer sir?  ;)