To All Members and particularly senior members of this group.... please see the news article posted below.

Can we form a pressure group and petition the government instead of waiting passively? I think experienced hobbyists, particularly those with aviation background and LHSs should come forward and write to the government to consult representative of hobbyists before formulating the rules. I think we should also approach some MPs, particularly young ones, to speak on our behalf at the parliament. If this is not done and we simply remain passive observers, the government may place massive restrictions which will make pursuing this hobby impossible.

If everything is left to the DGCA, "security experts", defence / intelligence agencies and people who create fear psychosis on "drones", media reports and similar people who think UAVs are used by terrorists only, then the rule that is to come will not be favourable to the hobbyists. The news clipping quoted below for the first time gives a hint that some kind of law is supposed to be tabled in the parliament and not merely a "policy" by DGCA. That means there would be some kind of debate in the parliament on this issue. Unless we form a pressure group which counters some of the arguments and fear psychosis created by the politicians, defence and media, no law abiding person would be able to pursue this hobby and whoever does it illegally may risk legal action.

So we need to put forward our views and educate the people who are unaware of the issues involved. It is inevitable that we have to accept some restrictions on flying UAV/UAS. But it should not be so restrictive that flying becomes impossible or that people pursuing this hobby faces harassment and legal action.

I am not aware if any actions have already been taken but maybe we should start with writing the PM a detailed letter in this respect and then follow that up with various Ministries, individual MPs etc. so that hobbyists have a voice in the drafting of the bill, work on which appears to be going on. Let us post a draft letter in this discussion forum and then ask all members to input their views/points before signing it and sending the same to the PM collectively or individually.

Members, specifically senior members, Please post your views.

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Today's news: http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Article.aspx?eid=31812&articlexml=Govt-clamp-on-UAVs-on-way-21072015006038

Sir,
Your post is doubtless well intentioned,
but i hear Parliament singing "Don't you know that was the last thing on my mind"!

On a constructive note, perhaps we should petition Mr Varun Gandhi, whose father was an aviation enthusiast, and an aeromodeller

Being "well intentioned" is not my only intention Sir !

Actually in lots of other matters I have seen that such petitions work. A well drafted letter can work wonders. In fact even a letter written by a single person can be very effective. In respect of certain laws, views of individuals were considered when framing the laws. I could have tried on my own but unfortunately I am only a beginner in this hobby and don't know all the issues and proposals.

Experienced members...at least please post the points that we should take up with the authority. I can try to frame a letter.

Yes...Mr. Varun Gandhi may be one such MP who can be petitioned, among others. I hope we can rope in lots of others too. But lets give it a try.

Bumping

Meanwhile...

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/21/us/gun-drone-connecticut/index.html

Bumping

I totally agree, I even tried writing a petition on change.org but I just couldn't complete it.
If I can help in any way don't think twice to ask for help.

Can you and other members please post the relevant points and demands here so that a letter can be drafted? Just mentioning the important points would be sufficient. Also, if we have a common or official line of action or demand, please let us know.

An RTI application to DGCA will let us know their stand on this issue.

I am not asking about the DGCA or Government's stand. That will be known when they table the draft bill in the Parliament. I just want to know if RC hobbyists in India have some "official" stand on the issue.

Well, till now we haven't reached a conclusion as to what should be the plan of action. A well detailed RTI petition will bring us out of darkness. We can then plan about further action. Somebody who has a prior experience with RTI petitions and also belongs to an official RC Club like AMAI etc. should file an application and keep us updated with the response and further correspondences.

We even need a well knows face to lead us like Varun Gandhi, Madhavan, Ajith,etc who have some exposure to the hobby.

Who is madhwan? The guy from tannu weds mannu?

Yes. He flies helis.

Here is a copy of the mails i sent to DGCA on 12th Oct 2014, within a few days of their notification.
No reply of course. But i hope the DGCA himself read it, not just one of his email clerks!

Respected Sir,
This is further to earlier email.
It seems to me that there is a simple way to address the the safety and security concerns of DGCA, without curtailing the rights of hobbyists to enjoy their hobby.

1. DGCA could set up a website for flyers of remote controlled aircraft models to register on
2. Flyers of RC aircraft models can register by providing their name, ID, address, phone number, transmitter frequency and location of usual flying site, and get a registration number.
3. Flyers of non remote controlled models need not register.
4. Main restrictions can be:
- weight not to exceed 5kg
- no flight above 400 ft
- no flight within 5km of an ATC airport
- no flight over public or vehicles or houses. Rules for permission can be worked out.

The DGCA registration can be like a car numberplate. Flyers can proudly display on their models.

Anyone caught in suspicious circumstances can easily be identified as a bonafide hobbyist or not.

I sincerely hope that you would consider these suggestions.
You would recall that for many decades we were not allowed to photograph airports, something that is now allowed.

Sir, all aeromodellers are not necessarily enemies of the State.

Yours faithfully,
K.K.Iyer
Retired Director
State Bank Foundation Institute -Chetana
Indore.

Respected Sir,
Does your captioned notice mean that that all recreational flying by aeromodellers is to be stopped?
Since i have been an aeromodeller for the last 45 years, and i and my wife fly RC models at an empty plot on sundays with a few friends, i need to know if it is still legal to do so.
Regards
K K Iyer,
Retired Director,
State Bank Foundation Institute -Chetana
Indore

Sent from my iPad

They might not respond to emails but they are required by law to respond to an RTI petition

Who is the administrator of this forum?

Mr. Anwar

If DGCA planning to form a policy they will follow FAA guidlines since they don't have their own minds and complete ban on this hobby shows their ignorance. This has put enough negative impression on public (layman). I can join AMAI if they are really working on this but i don't see their action plan anywhere.

@topalle
I have lots of experience on RTI. But RTI only helps us to get information and to address issues of corruption by asking pointed questions. Here the issue is different. RTI will not serve the purpose here. Knowing what DGCA or the Government is thinking will be evident when a draft bill is placed in the Parliament. But here we need to create a voice on behalf of the hobbyists so that we may have some influence on the law being framed. These are called pressure groups. When a law is debated, pressure groups try to influence the government on behalf of people having certain interests. In this case, we have to represent the interests of the hobbyists. Otherwise the law may become one sided. Once a law is passed, it is very difficult to change it. So we need to have our say when the law is being made.

Thanks for the list of MPs or dignitaries whom we may approach. If you are aware of other notable persons who have interest in these areas, that might help. For example, we may write to Ex.President Mr. Abdul Kalam. He is a person who has always encouraged innovation and enterprise in our country. His is a voice that will have much influence and he will surely help us put forth our views to the government.

On different issues I have directly petitioned President and Prime Minister individually or for some group and I know that these private initiatives have effects on policy formulation if the case can be presented in a lucid and in-depth / knowledgeable manner. Just recall the nationwide efforts made in respect of net-neutrality.

@Dharmik
If AMAI is doing something, it is good. But even then, it won't hurt if we do it separately as a body or as individuals.

Secondly, don't count on DGCA to blindly follow the FAA guidelines. They will take FAA guidelines and add further restrictions on their own. That is what we need to deal with.

@KK Iyer Sir
I work in the central government and you can be sure of one thing .... government people rarely read emails and even if they do, they don't take action on the basis of emails. We have to send letters and send these by speed post to the proper place. DGCA is lower body. They will only put forward their own views. We have to send them to higher bodies who are relatively neutral in this respect....like the Ministry or the PMO. On their own, a letter sent to DGCA may not be acted upon. But a letter sent to PM or Minister of Civil Aviation and then marked to DGCA will have different effect because the higher authorities will want comments. Your emails are very effective. We can include these points in our petitions.

If we start our campaign in right earnest, I hope that will have some influence on the law. Thanks to all Members who have posted their inputs. I hope other members will come up with their inputs too and then we can formulate a plan of action.

I Really liked KK Iyer Sir Idea that The DGCA registration can be like a car numberplate. Flyers can proudly display on their models. But santanucus How will these pressure groups work? I mean will they work offline or online? Also a campaign on change.org will be of any help?

@SuperCheap
If we go by UAV wise registration that would be a huge problem. A person may make or purchase many UAVs as part of his hobby. Often they dismantle one and make another from the components.  Just imagine if he has to go to DGCA everytime to get his new plane/quad registered. I think we should not give this proposal on our own. Rather, flyer-wise permission may be considered. This is like bargaining. We don't want to give in lots of concessions right at the beginning. In fact why suggest a "licence raj" type of restrictions right at the beginning? We shall gradually up the ante as we progress. If we start at a position of disadvantage, we'd end up with more disadvantage.

Pressure groups may work both online and offline. While we coordinate online because we are dispersed all over India, there may arise occasions when some of the experienced people may have to seek personal audience with Minister or DGCA etc. Personal meeting is also very effective.

I am a bit sceptical or online campaigns like change.org. It won't work with Indian Government. Online things may attract many passive and active voices but unless we take it up right to the Government, it won't work.

@santanucus,
Registration suggested for flyer, sir, not model.
(Car numberplate example unfortunately conveyed wrong impression)

That is better sir

In USA the FAA does not require licences for recreational use of UAVs. I think we should not insist upon the same in India. Licence Raj is a thing of the past and government does not have manpower to do that. Also Licence Raj will breed corruption. But a simplified online system may be considered (let us think out of box and not in 1960s-1980s terms )

If at all Registration needs to be done, my suggestions is doing this online...please comment. We don't want a new department like motor vehicles department indulging in corruption

1. Let UAV fliers be registered online using a specific website.

2. Let flyers be identified and linked with Aadhar Number or Election Identity Card

3. They can register their vehicles online too. Photos, weight and other capabilities e.g camera etc. and similar details can be uploaded by the user himself/herself

4. Places where they are likely to fly can be informed online by the user himself. For example, if I want to fly in Goa, I enter the time and dates and locations online. In fact flying locations can be pointed out on a Google Map mashup at the site. The system can also automatically display restricted areas where flying should not be done. Time based restricted areas can also be shown e.g. around Red Fort area on August 15th.

5. After entering details, a printout of UAV identification number can be generated and pasted on the UAV itself

6. After the user registers the location to fly (which can be a date or a range of dates) he can generate a printout, which he should carry with himself at the time of flying. Authorities can also ask for the slip anytime from the flier.

I think with this kind of simple online registration system in place, we'd not have a problem with flying or carrying the UAV anymore. User identification will be easy. And there will not be an issue of Licence raj. Such a system will address security concerns and also flyers' convenience.

I guess .. The government will never take up to he responsibility of registering and maintaining the Register .
I feel AMAI , should maintain the Register and furnish the details to the government as and when required.
But why is AMAI missing in all this action ?

Its not that they are missing in action. They (and ACI) did write a couple of letters to DGCA against the ban.

Here is one: http://www.amai.in/docs/ACI%20UAS.pdf
In terms of this letter, they are in favour of the one time clearance for fliers. But as you can see that their activities are primarily (and historically) related to planes only. They don't have a multirotor policy. They are trying to get exemptions for planes but silent about multirotors. But their activities appear limited.

Planes are hardly available commercially in the scale that multirotors are. The current issue is primarily due to multirotors. So if we wait for AMAI to come forward and do something, that may not happen.

Maintaining the register is not a big burden if e-Governance type system is used. Create a website and include self-registering system linked to Aadhar and that's sufficient to address many of the concerns.

Police can take decision on case to case basis if the flyer submits all the details it is possible to fly. Prior intimation to nearest police authority is always a recommended

Registration procedure is not flyers domain , best to be left with authorities. 

Santancuss seems too agitated with this, little that is suggested by him will be a immediate possibility, online regi is a tricky thing, after all it's a matter of National and public safety and so called flyers comfort will be the least concern of the authorities.

@iwincar

I completely agree with both of your previous posts.

Chk this link , Darius Engineer mentioned in news paper of Indian Academy of model aeronautics -at mahalaxmi race course seems working on it

I guess you have not been following the thread from the beginning. A law on UAVs is being drafted. The whole thread is in that context. Where does the question of police decision on case to case basis arise here? We are talking about the need to put forth our views in respect of the law to the government. Once a law is formulated, police will have to act on the basis of the law and not on case to case basis.

Personally I have no reason to be agitated. I simply don't subscribe to the pessimistic view that let's sit idle and watch what government is doing or whatever we say, the government will not listen to our views. I face no problem in flying at all. I am closely involved in security related issues in the government in my professional life. But this is not a personal issue. Those who think that we have nothing to do are welcome to think so.

I am only requesting those fliers who think that we may have something to do in this respect to come up with proposals and suggestions and maybe form a consensus on this issue

Its mostly about Microlight Aircraft, Hot Air Balloon, Paraglider etc. Regarding UAVs, I had written a letter to DGCA and they have assured that the rules will be lenient towards recreational users. However, the attitude of Ministry of Home Affairs may not be that lenient. Another letter written to them is still "under process". If MHA takes adverse view in respect of UAVs, then we'd be in trouble. In respect of our hobby, it is not possible to submit log book etc. to DM on regular basis. I hope they won't include such conditions in respect of hobbyists. The restriction on camera in manned aircrafts is also not a good news for unamanned FPV flying. Let's see what comes out of all such meetings.

I would say....its fools world...saw a video of Istanbul airport a couple of days before ,to be frank I am juat 2oo meters away from the airport and I know the risk and that's y I fly low and slow ...and these bunch of idiots so called photographers with phantom who claims to know everything regarding phantom ....
I could say I say video by Akhil was posted in wpp group ....just ask him ..he took permission from the local CA

Hi all,
Just wanted to know how this pressure group will be formed and how they will act.? Should we individually send letters by speed post to pmo or is it to be done as an organization? And if it is being drafted now. How much time  do we have  before it is presented before  parliament ? 

Although it has not been done in a systematic manner, some efforts have been made to convey our views to the DGCA and other concerned authorities.

Please see http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/petition-on-change-org-successfully-created/125/ and http://www.rcindia.org/chatter-zone/petition-on-change-org-successfully-created/150/

Even though the reply from DGCA appears positive, the main concern is that Home Ministry may take a negative view from the security point of view. Since no consensus has been made to take up the matter as an organization, individual letters to various authorities like PM, DGCA etc. may be written. The basic points have been discussed in the above mentioned thread.