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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2013, 02:40:29 PM »
satyagupta
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Ohh in that case my apologies, i read it wrong :headbang:

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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2013, 03:16:58 PM »
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hahaha! subhanjan blocked me from commenting on his video.... what a coward! Tongue
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2013, 09:08:19 PM »
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Bald eagle hits an aeroplane, bald eagle is dead, pilot? ejects/dead. Your aeroplane hits the big bird, then what happens? think about it, flight plan (For BVR), clearances aren't turf war, they are there so that people know where you go and take adequate measure to avoid each other (in time and space, by some 'give and take') it is not turf war. i only hope doing BVR you don't go into / close to some big birds.

Comparing real birds to models aeroplane ? is it a logical analogy ? do we / can we control real birds ? can we control the guys who fly models and prevent them from going into an another big bird carrying humans ? there is your answer.
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« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2013, 09:17:38 PM »
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For you Sandy
just 30 secs from jaipur international airport, Assume if this was FPV,

respond !!
 we will take the discussion further from your response  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2013, 11:50:29 PM »
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Gusty its Turf war from your side. You are taking  this discussion totally off perspective here. You are hell bent upon taking this discussion on strategic levels with analogy of strategic scales when we all are in Hobby Grade. where the fact of the mater is no one in hobby field has that kind of capability. I do not understand your compulsion in this and reason for trying to scare people. we all are talking about hobby grade usage where people who manage close to 10Kms in tactical scales are less than 20 today may be even less than 10 Including DRDO and NAL. I am not even counting you in that 10  Wink. Most of the FPV guys, College kids don't even manage out a Km max 1-2 Kms out BVR. Where I am talking about staying away from all air traffic and Airport for all RC flying, you are talking about deliberately going into it.

Today order of the day is miniaturization. where we are talking about less than a meter span even less than half a meter. which is even more insignificant than a bald eagle. way beyond perspective of AD and AF. You are talking about flight plans and fictitious non available clearances for the same. Fact of the matter is, it is going to be some general area of flying no flight plan. even for operational use.

10 Kms away from any Airport ceiling below 400mtrs any kind of flight plan is totally irrelevant to the flight plan of all big birds. That is why the height restriction of 400Mtrs for even RC flying.

Where there are Trillion natural flying objects already exist in sky which you cannot track or legislate, can do nothing about it. you want to legislate few RC flying guys. I would say this is nothing more than bureaucracy from someone who wants to hold on to the turf dearly.

I am saying first AD and AF need to upgrade their capability to track these insignificant objects in sky in their Radar before even thinking of managing them let alone controlling them. Before that capability to track with AD and AF all the talk of clearances and bureaucracy are logically only leading towards total BAN. That's the reason I have compared birds to FPV flying apart from equivalent wingspans. When you don't have the capability to BAN the birds don't even think about banning RC guys.

First develop the capability to come and knock my door when I get airborne. Few days back some SF guys were flying parallel to active Runway. It did not even come up on the ATC screen. In the days to come Infantry alone is going to have in few hundreds in Tactical scale. Let me see how many clearance you sign for what you cannot track who's flight plan cannot be confirmed. Its going to be just safe flying zones for practice and training away from air traffic.

Similarly I am advocating discussion on safe flying practice and safe flying zones for RC flying, Organizing RC flying into local clubs with self imposed guidelines and restrictions with laid down strict safe flying practice and safe flying zones, rather than taking this discussion in wrong direction.
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2013, 07:25:19 AM »
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There is something called 'Positive Control' and 'Procedure Control'. Even big birds are not on radar always. In fact over waters and most parts of middle east they are not on radar at all. Procedure control is 'notifying' that you aeroplane will be flying above 50 mts (Erstwhile height has recently been downwards revised) beyond visual range, so that one could stay clear of the flight path of the notified aircraft. If you notify, big birds will stay clear. beauty is filling of flight plan (Once again for BVR only) is, it is free and first come first served basis, and aeroplanes with humans in them know that such an aeroplane is flying. it is not a scare, it is the law, a logical one at that. DID ANY ONE TALKED OF BANNING HERE ?

For WVR (Within Visual Range) notify your flying field (Again Free) with the local AD stn, and fly. No one stops you, to the aeroplanes with humans in them a NOTAM is issued that such and such hobby activity is happening in such and such area, below the notifies height. again this is doen for the safety of life. what is wrong in that. I DONT understand

having said that, like the road rules in India, where one can jump the red light, drive on the opposite side, practically do what one wants without any fear, here too it is not imposed, therefore people are flying oblivious of what the consequences can be.

To be seen on radar is not a mandatory requirement at all, most part of my life in flying high speed aeroplanes, i have not only flown below radar cover, also below communication cover, on my own, with no contact with the world whatsoever. HOWEVER people knew that such and such aeroplane is flying in that area. that is procedure control. WHAT is wrong in that ?

You didn't respond to (In one or two sentence, so as to generate meaningful thinking process) previous picture ? is it OK to do that, can one legally do that without spending a penny ? YES, just fill a damn flight plan for free ( heard it is online nowadays).

Coming to the topic perse, the word Drone UAV unfortunately, by the uninformed, has been tagged as Dangerous & Military, if not flown by military, then it is flown by unwanted elements. that's why calling one's contraptions as a Toy or Aeromodel is the safe bet. Unfortunate, but then that's how it is.

lastly ! was i guilty as charged? of course yes, that's why recently the SCN, WW from HQ and appln for permission (Which has not yet come through, therefore i am waiting)

i rest my case, i request people to read carefully (Not speed read), to get the essence of what i am saying. One misdemeanor by anyone. it will bring a lot of flak for this hobby. Fly safe, Fly notified, Happy Landings
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2013, 08:13:17 AM »
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Yes gusty I am saying no different  procedural control can be established only by organizing this activities in organised local clubs with details of each member registered in notified safe flying zones.

When you cannot ensure procedural control for Trillion birds which is already airborne in same scale. When you claim to fly lower than permitted ceiling endangering your life (and the birds  Wink ) amongst them why now paint such a grim picture and extreme threat perception for RC flying. Why not accept the fact that big wings are supposed to maintain a ceiling after few KM away from runway for their own safety and do not pose any threat to RC flying done away from airports. Smiley.

One can make explosives with Soap, milk powder, fertilizer and many more day to day items of use. One can use commercially available motorolas  to wirelessly detonate them. Then there are million more other products used by us day to day which can be dual use of as weapon when in the hands of a criminal mind. Here you can't even keep a track of the buyers and users.

Criminal mind will find a way amidst all your procedures. Its only by your credible capability of tracking them and countermeasures you can ensure safety not by banning entire lot who use soap (electronic chips), milk powder (battery), fertilizer ( RC Plane), motorola ( RC Remote Control) or trying to legislate them.

There is a procedural control for private guns by having licence for every privately owned ones. Inspite of the above million more are floating around without license. So much for procedural control of what you cannot enforce.

Gusty I am not sure whether you are aware of or not, all good FPV systems have a system of transmitting their Call Signs along with their analog transmission while flying, apart from their physical signature. Which are both trackable and locatable in your radar. If only you have the means to do that. So much so for knowing where the RC FPV flying is taking place for your procedural control. My system has it which is always on when I fly. Gurav and Ashok also has it. I am transmitting out in open who I am where I am, I am trying to keep a distance from you when I fly. You are worried sick still because you have yet to figure out how to track me here. To say the least I am more notified in air when I am airborne than the poor Birds which only give out physical signature.

can one legally do that without spending a penny ? YES, just fill a damn flight plan for free ( heard it is online nowadays).
Request you to enlighten us all on the same. Is it really happening for fact for FPV flying by common man  Giggle and how it is gone about. Never we are worried about notifying where we are airborne away from big wings. Its only the rider that you will not be airborne till such time cleared makes us skeptical.

This hobby is pursued by common man. Lets see when you can get a clearance for a common man leave alone one for yourself. Then we will talk about required ATC clearance. Then we will talk about required ATC clearance for pursuing this hobby and would be more than glad to seek one.  Until such time this kind of threat perceptions and procedurals & talk by the ignorant only lead one logical conclusion of total ban.

Till such time its our responsibility to educate them make them more aware.

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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2013, 12:30:09 PM »
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Gusty and Sandy, Guys, Lets keep our cool and lets not ourselves invite trouble by getting into too many specifics in the open. I agree with Sandy, that we shouldnt, inadvertantly become part of the group that is against the new era of RC hobby flying, including FPV.  Gusty, I also agree with you that everyone needs to put their act together and practise safe flying procedures strictly, keep a restraint on what they tell the public and media and also be part of this forum, so we can be a close knit community.

I posted this thread, to make the newcomers, specially college students to be aware of the reality and work towards real innovation versus 'buy, assemble and claim' methodology.

Lets please stick to that, and even though, by the definition, even a stick plane, can be called a UAV, we should refrain from calling it that, in the best interest of this hobby and th aeromodelling community.

Gusty, also that picture you posted from Jaipur was with a Microlight and not FPV ( If i am not wrong ) .

Aniket, no need to worry abour Saha ji . Let him read our posts. He is like a baby who just wet his pants for the first time. Needs a whole lot to learn from here. Unfortunately he is like thousands others who have been just fooling themselves, their parents, their teachers and their friends. It is good to dream , but please be real. What I do not want is that these newcomers spoil the entire scenario of aeromodelling.
99% of what he has said in the media ( videos and print ) is pure BS.  Caution to other new comers to not do this. I would infact go to the extent of notifying his college about the false claims and the actual facts.

Please, this is a hobby - its been like this for over 40 years and will always be. Just adding a few electronic gizmos will not change it. Call your creations hobby aeromodels - for gods sake.
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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2013, 04:02:06 PM »
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Quote
fooling themselves

Gaurav sir, multi-crore rupee debate, summarized in two simple words. I don't see any kind of problem with calling rc flying machines 'Radio Controlled Models' or 'hobby models' and nothing else.
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« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2013, 10:55:18 PM »
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@gauravag
Pl do notify his college.
I'll notify TOI.
Can we not be honest in our own country?
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« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2013, 11:28:06 PM »
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@kk iyer sir, i think people have already notified TOI... but they ignored them.. it's somewhere in this thread only... also, why would a college try to pull down their own student who made them proud? o.O
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2013, 08:36:56 AM »
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The root of the problem is the coverage by inefficient media personnel. As the media house increases, they are filled up by incompetent and inefficient guys. Moreover, as media personnel think they knew all the things with maximum potential, problem generates. It's the problem of yellow journalism.

Just watch even Doordarshan or AIR transmission, you will see pronunciation and spelling mistake in local language (Specially when that is your mother tongue) sometimes. This inefficiency was not previously when quality was prior than quantity and professional quality deterioration due to reservation was absent (Please don't treat this otherwise). Other channel's program is full of the this errors. Being a govt. officer, we are bound not to publish the matter, but with daily NEWS, at least 5 headlines are covered with incomplete information and the essence completely changed due to political personnel. Some civil servents even have to stand back of them with misleading informations. Sad to our country that the officer with a good spine is just vanishing and really, we are feeling loneliness.

We have to realize the fact that
1) The politicians has the better solution than engineer, and
2) News media personnel has better knowledge than expert. ------are totally wrong.

It's the credit of the boy/student that he/she can highlight his creation so much even with inappropriate claim and got succeeded, so he should given full marks in presentation paper. And the culprit is panel of judge/guide.  Huh...
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« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2013, 03:56:40 PM »
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Another one, in this months EFY issue (see attachments)

It's official they're selling it to the DRDO. I don't see any 'innovation' unless the autopilot firmware was actually written up from scratch and the hardware was done from the ground up.

Digging into the archives, this is what I find:

http://www.electronicsforu.com/electronicsforu/circuitarchives/view_article.asp?
sno=662&title%20=%20Aerial+Eye+to+guard+against+Terrorism&id=5086&article_type=5

Seems like ideaForge has had the product ready since 2010. In fact they've already got a P.O from NAL earlier; check the PDF attachment - original source http://www.nal.res.in/pdf/purchase20ead.pdf. I don't know if the price is justified. Bear in mind the P.O mentions only the autopilot!

Also, check out the autopilot h/w specs. Does it look familiar? I don't know if its the spec of a stock module but others may be able to comment. Wonder why the name or the architecture of the ARM chip has not been disclosed, in the P.O

netra-1.jpg
Re: Please stop calling model hobby airplanes & multirotors as ‘UAV’s and ‘Drone’s.
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« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2013, 06:42:42 PM »
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Colorado town to consider drone hunting license, bounty Giggle

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/drone-hunting-colorado-172357477.html

this is Tex'ass'

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/texas-law-gets-tough-on-public-private-drone-use/
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« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2013, 10:03:28 AM »
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Again what a sick media

http://grab.by/qrVQ

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIM/2013/09/20&PageLabel=4&EntityId=Pc00412&ViewMode=HTML

Perhaps if you google about airpix (guys who did this) you would find their show reel on which it is mentioned multirotor as a drone  Sad Sad
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2013, 07:30:27 AM »
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Here is another stupid incident, there is a lesson in this for all of us.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=9270668
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2013, 07:52:58 AM »
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IF it would have been in India, the Govt would have banned permanent use/Sale of RC related stuffs. and we would be forced to do some black market research just like how we search for Methanol in Tamilnadu.
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2013, 08:15:39 PM »
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The fall-out...

http://ask.slashdot.org/story/13/10/04/200243/ask-slashdot-time-to-regulate-domestic-drones
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« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2013, 04:36:18 PM »
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 Thumbs Up Thumbs Up well said buddy  Hats Off
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« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2013, 05:02:37 PM »
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 Smiley
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« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2013, 05:15:23 PM »
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His name is "sudipta" pronounced as "sudipto" I guess
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2013, 11:46:29 PM »
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/9/4821094/remote-aircraft-pilot-fights-faa-fine-could-change-drone-rules
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« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 08:51:52 AM »
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@yash   yes yash  Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2013, 11:37:40 PM »
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http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/84050
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« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 10:18:01 AM »
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-24/drone-pilot-fine-tests-industry-seen-reaching-89-billion.html

Interesting read up on actual scenario in US on Drones less than 25 Pounds.
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