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« on: September 02, 2013, 09:55:11 PM »
gauravag
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Dear All,
In the past few years, it seems all too common (and alarmingly) to see the words UAV and drone enter our hobby terminology. It seems like every other guy, particularly students and newcomers, who builds a multicopter or an airplane, fitted with an off the shelf hobby grade navigational system calling their bird a ‘UAV’ or a ‘drone’.  While building and flying these is probably OK,  but calling them UAV and drones, in my opinion is highly misleading to themselves, their peers,  ( in the case of students, their colleges and faculty) as well as poses a threat to the rest of the aeromodelling community . Why so ? . Read on.

Until 2008-09, an aeromodellor’s life was simple. All they had to do was to charge their batteries, or fuel up their airplanes go to their favorite RC field and fly. They were not bothered to ‘upgrade firmwares’ , wait for GPS locks, or fiddle with gain settings. They were also, more or less, limited to flying from their fields and scarcely flew above people,population and property.  Things changed with the advent of mass scale production of accelerometers, gyros, GPS units, thanks to their growing application in the mobile industry. Following this, sites like 3DRobotics / DIYDrones  came up . They offered, off the shelf, ready to use, relatively cheap and affordable  stabilization systems, autopilots and waypoint navigation which are easy to install, configure and fly. 

Today, building a multirotor (also called a multicopter,  variants including quadcopter, tricopter, hexcopter and octacopter ) is a piece of cake and, face the reality, in most cases, poses little or insignificant technical  challenge in building one, and there’s hardly any innovation involved. All components are readily available, many plug and play, some requiring some basic soldering skills and abundance of How-Tos, videos, guides and forums showing the build process, assembly, configuration and setup. Mounting a camera, and transmitting a live video feed is equally that easy. Hundreds of online sites sell frames, motors, ESCs and a variety of controller board options. These controller boards can be anything from cheap manual controllers to expensive GPS based self stabilizing, waypoint navigation systems. Perhaps, more skill is needed in selecting the right components to buy and prepare the ‘correct’ shopping list , than any  other technical challenge involved in building these multicopters.

The case with airplanes is similar, the internet provides hundreds, if not thousands of free plans, online stores selling variety of gear, electronics and programmable navigational equipment.  Put on a $200 Arduplane, and you have a RC hobby airplane with a page full of advanced features which are hard to believe and hard to beat !

What is to be noted is that, all of the above flying machines are based on purely hobby grade amateur components. None of these components are commercial or industrial grade. From the radio sets, to the electronics, to the controller boards , navigation systems, and the firmwares within them . End result ?

What we have is a Hobby grade multirotor, airplane or an flying camera platform. Not a Drone or a UAV. 

Its an appeal to everyone, please stop fooling yourself, a hobby airplane/multicopter that can fly waypoints is NOT a UAV or a drone. Its just a model toy airplane fitted with hobby grade equipment.

Likewise, all teachers,  professors and management , please educate yourself. Just because a team of students  comes up with a plan to build a flying airplane that can fly a series of waypoints, auto land and a bunch of fancy features doesn’t make it an industrial grade UAV, and its uses are also limited as such.

Now the question . How can they harm the rest of us hobbyists ?  Bring media into the picture. Local journalists and mediapersons are often unaware of the realities, and the finer details of where the actual innovation lies . Once they see a flying airplane or a multirotor with the fancy features, they easily give in and publish reportings that seemingly depict that a revolution has taken place.

It is these reportings that shed a bad light onto the hobby.  Such headlines are now becoming frequent by the day, and it is just like a trigger that’s about to be pulled that can bring around regulation from authorities , specially the IAF to serve advisories that may hamper flying for the majority of us. And this is India, unlike US it will not invite petitions or factor in whatever noise our small hobby community creates.  Believe me, this is real.

What can you do  ?


Students: Please do not call your creation a UAV or a drone. Limit it to calling a hobby/experimental flying model. Also generate awareness, in various college meets and events , where specially mediapersons are present to bot blow things out of proportions. Stick to the reality and the facts.

Admin/moderators : Please make this sticky, so that this doesn’t get buried and that everyone reads this. Also actively edit the titles that claim UAV and drone development.
eg
http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/
http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/what-is-the-minimum-required-amount-of-money-to-start-an-uav-club-in-a-college/
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/penguin-uav-test-flight/
http://www.rcindia.org/electric-planes/uav/

Hobbyists : I know it is exciting to transform your plane from a regular plane to an autopilot enabled one, that can perhaps take pictures and shoot HD videos. but please do not get driven away. Its still a model hobby airplane . Please stick to calling it the same

College Teachers/faculty/professors management : Please take the time to go through the recent developments and sites like www.diydrones.com and www.openpilot.com There are several dozen such projects going on, all hobby grade and their end results are far from delivering a commercial solution. Do not give in to pitches thrown in by students with fancy feature claims,
Club owners/presidents :  Spread this word, publish this article in your magazine and  please try not to bring UAVs and drones into the world of aeromodelling and hobby specially when briefing  students and mediapersons. 
Aerial photography professionals : Perhaps these are the lot that is already best aware of this.  They are also the ones that stay cautious, however I would encourage them to generate even more awareness .

Startups: I see several dozen startups these days promising to deliver UAVs and drones that have applications in various sectors.  Again, please stick to reality and facts. If your platform is designed ground up for industrial grade commercial applications then its good, if not, you are better off calling it a model hobby airplane.


Some of the recent media reportings, that I refer in my writeup above, Perhaps there would be hundreds more.


1.   Kolkata student builds a drone

Subhanjan Saha has his eyes in the sky. A three metre by one metre drone, or unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), built by him from scratch has garnered widespread attention ..>
http://www.suasnews.com/2013/08/24715/kolkata-student-builds-a-drone/

2. Independence Day: UAV creates a buzz in Mangalore

MANGALORE: An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) used for aerial photography and videography was the cynosure of all eyes at the 67 thdistrict level Independence Day celebration here on Thursday
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-08-15/mangalore/41413003_1_uav-photography-videography

3. Indian Student Builds Drone Bomber for £400
A 21-year-old computer science student in India has come up with a design for a drone bomber aircraft made of scrap metal and costing £400, IBTimes UK has learned.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/501190/20130824/drone-india-student-pakistan-kashmir-china-uav.htm

4. Indian student builds a drone
http://www.bgr.in/news/indian-student-builds-a-drone/

5. Flying High
In a collaborative project, students are engaged in developing unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for the modern urban environment.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Flying-high/articleshow/22218891.cms

6. Drones set to crowd Indian skies

How about a pizza being delivered at your home by an UAV ( Unmanned Aerial Vehicle)? Or getting a courier through this flying machine? Or spying with a UAV as small as a butterfly which perches itself on a windowsill? Sounds like sci-fi? Experts say this could well become a reality.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-07-24/india/40771105_1_ucavs-idea-forge-aerospace

7. Father-son's homegrown planes in defence collaboration

The small, first floor flat in a quiet lane of Adyar is buzzing with activity. Quadcopters with four humming rotors and miniature planes, commonly known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), dot the verandah which resembles a small airport without a runway. What started as a place for student projects in 2010 is now incubating projects developed in collaboration with national labs for defence and police forces.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-07/chennai/39089610_1_uavs-anna-university-unmanned-aerial-vehicles

8. Kashmiri students develop Unmanned Aerial Vehicle
SRINAGAR: Inspired by the blockbuster Bollywood movie '3 Idiots', three engineering students from Kashmir have developed an UAV, which they claim is the first Unmanned Aerial Vehicle made in the Valley.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-06-03/news/39714633_1_the-uav-kashmiri-students-aerial-vehicle
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 10:06:22 PM »
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Words of Wisdom indeed! As a forum we must and will try to use correct terminology

How do we educate the media, colleges and budding "UAV/Drone/UFO" developers out there?

Mr. V.K. Nagar (flytrack) time for AIMA now
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 10:57:48 PM »
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i swear , i agree, i feel the same, people get excited calling their stuffs especially multirotors and fpv planes drones etc, it is exciting to boast off, feel good factor but its very misleading too, its developers/builders self satisfying stupidity or maybe people do it to justify the price tag and their assembly effort, and in front of the media nobody wants to call their rc a toy so they go make it worse by calling it uas/uav/drone.

'Charity begins at home', we have to make it our point to call it what it is and spread the word.
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 11:05:30 PM »
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Thanks Gaurav !!

PLEASE listen to gaurav and stop using the word UAV/Drone, before S@@T hits the ceiling. things wont be comfortable if you use these words, like gaurav covered. you call your hobby model a UAV/Drone and you are booked for any violation, i can assure you you are gone for good.

IT IS A HOBBY AEROMODEL period, end of story, i don't want to go any further into permissions (I am obtaining one to be on the safer side), Air Traffic and Air defence clearances, air worthiness certificates and other legal cover that one requires when one flies a UAV

If you decide to call one of your sad looking and performing contraptions as UAVs or Drones. think hard and think twice

i cant emphasize any further

REST IS UPTO YOU
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 11:12:30 PM »
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I think that the subhanjan shah story is the worst! he talks as if he's some pro hacker/drone maker ever! he scratch builds an aircraft, and gives titles such as "biggest rc plane In India" and the media just absorbs all this BS! he tells people he has a "modified radio with long range" in reality, he uses a fs ct6b with a lrs module. with the claims he makes, he's going to destroy the hobby for everyone! the last thing we need is rc flying being banned in India Embarrassed

so you built a rc plane/quad... great, but please remember, there are millions more who have done the same. stop reinventing the wheel, and claiming fame.

this hobby is held up only by a small group of dedicated people, who fly because they want to, not because they look cool in front of their friends. but idiots like shah are almost hell bent on destroying it for all of us.

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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2013, 11:20:09 PM »
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DRONE is a very very wrong word a Harsh acronym for what all we are flying.

RC Planes though are all UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLES in true literal sense whether it is used for RC flying, aerial photography or any other purpose.

This goes for every one of us. Bottom line is, this hobby has to be pursued with a lot of responsibility and a self control for a constant strive for safe flying. Any kind of accident due to a few minutes of reckless flying for show off of one person in any category of RC flying can land this hobby in soup.

A Section of lobbyist due to their deviant motives and ulterior objectives who are only interested in putting a cap on open source development are today deliberately naming it as Drone to discredit all those pursuing this beautiful hobby. We should not inadvertanly be a part of this propaganda by contributing overtly or covertly by your misplaced arguments and claims

To qoute wisdom of Gp Capt Ramesh Tahlan

We in India need to look beyond the horizon. In the US army, a Brigade has almost 300 remote control planes, mostly with just a camera and a video down link. Yes.... its the same as you and me fly. Tbe size is one meter span with removsble wings and removable tail surfaces so that it packs into a light carry case. This is what the soldier has at the very end of the front line. He does not have to look back to ask for a fighter recconaisance mission or a multi million dollar UAV/DRONE to get him images of what is hidden behing a hill or mountain or building. Most importantly, the progress of our hobby where miniturisation is tje key is an off shoot from the R&D for space missions. So to say it plainly, all items of our hobby are dual use components. These can be used for military and can be used for hobby also. This is why DRDO (Defence Research And Development) has given an open invitation to one and all to come and participate in an event, with handsome prizes running into lakhs. Because like the US and other countries we also beleive that amoungst the youth some has a very bright and innovative to take our Hobby RC flying in UAV and Drones to the next level. This is why our young lot has also won in this same field in the US and come back with a smile. Because unlike us, the invitation by USA is international. Gentlemen... there is no line dividing what we use for our hobby and what is used by the military in todays world.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 07:45:34 AM by sundaram » Logged

 

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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 12:16:59 AM »
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You need something like this organization to help you charter clubs here.  They have great resources to liaise with the gov't so that the gov't understands you fly with rules and safety in mind.
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 12:21:50 AM »
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links to become legitimate hobby with gov't officials visiting your clubs to help you.  if you can make your version of AMA, everything will be easier.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama.aspx

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 07:53:05 AM »
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Well Said gauravag  Sir,
Its pretty bad how these people make up to the media that easily, where real innovation sometimes get Buried.
Today what most engineering student calls as a Innovative project is already available as a commercial product somewhere in the world. May be their project guides have outdated Knowledge about the latest technologies in the world.
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 10:30:01 AM »
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Highly appreciate your concern Gaurav.
due to such misleading ( may be unknown to them self also ). RCing should not get into trouble.
This may lead to , so much of clearance from officials and legal documents and so on on ....
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »
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RC Planes though are all UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLES in true literal sense whether it is used for RC flying, aerial photography or any other purpose.

As you said in the true literal sense, even $10 chuck glider is an "Unmanned Aerial Vehicle" or a UAV . In common  perception  and understanding UAVs are understood to be bigger flying machines that can fly beyond line of sight, be autonomous, and can operate at higher altitudes and may need clearances and cut through regulations to fly and operate.  I know we need to change this. But , our hobby community is too small to bring about this change in thought and perception.  Rather than stir up the hornet's nest , I suggest its better to leave those words alone and stick to calling our planes hobby aeromodels, multicopters, FPV planes etc which do not have so much regulations tied along with them.

I also respectfully disagree with what Grp Cpt. Tahlan has to say. What US army has is much ahead and different in technology from our hobby grade amateur equipment. Superficially, it seems like our hobby planes can serve the purpose and that the same components are used by theem. They may look similar on the top but there is a lot of innovation,behind them that makes them way ahead of what we use in our hobby. What i am  talking about is about the way these real UAVs are controlled- they are not flown with amateur HAM licensed LRS systems or 2.4G links, nor do they have unencrypted analog video links, or easy to jam GPS navigation. Just because we can transmit live video and have a fancy OSD that resembles a modern fighter HUD doesnt make our system like a F-16 ! We really need to think outside the box and design systems from ground up that can serve the purpose and goals, and not just purchase, plug 'n' play stuff !!

I am not urging anyone to stop their flying . What I am saying is that understand and accept that we fly hobby aeromodels and refrain from making big claims, specially in front of media about their capabilites . They are too far fetched to be true.

As i repeat often - One idiot can bring our whole community down. Lets be responsible and fly safely and use the right sense of judgement to avoid any bad light to come upon this wonderful hobby.

AMA needs to be cautious here as well. Aeromodelling is limited to flying within line of sight . With modern advancements we can fly outside this limitation , which may be fine  , but please do not advertise this or give hopes to students and colleges that by following this hobby they can make UAVs and drones. Aeromodelling is still best pursued as a hobby, not a career .

Be real . Fly safe, fly lots !
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 12:14:58 PM by anwar » Logged

 

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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 11:12:48 AM »
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links to become legitimate hobby with gov't officials visiting your clubs to help you.  if you can make your version of AMA, everything will be easier.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama.aspx

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx


theleabres,
We already have associations like AMAI in India which have objectives similar to AMA in the US. However the big difference is that we lack the numbers !! US has hundreds of clubs and thousands of fliers, with a thriving  hobby industry/business . Their system is also open enough to listen to voices raised. India is different. Though we need not stay in constant fear, but yes we need to self regulate and be cautious in what we talk about.
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 11:41:15 AM »
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See the video of Subhanjan Saha
http://www.timesnow.tv/Kolkatas-self-taught-genius/videoshow/4435345.cms

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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 11:46:04 AM »
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We already have associations like AMAI in India which have objectives similar to AMA in the US. However the big difference is that we lack the numbers !! US has hundreds of clubs and thousands of fliers, with a thriving  hobby industry/business . Their system is also open enough to listen to voices raised. India is different. Though we need not stay in constant fear, but yes we need to self regulate and be cautious in what we talk about.

I second you on that gaurav. But India is no different it is all of us who have to take efforts to graduate to that level by having Unity among us, by getting all our activities as a local groups organizing into the gambit of local clubs with set codes of conduct for fliers and self imposed and spelt out safety regulations in black and white. Further restricting all our activities in safe zones without disturbing the privacy of general public. making sure all our activities in public are strictly by invitations and permission.

Many have already achieved commendable progress in that direction and are bringing good recognition for this hobby.
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 11:55:40 AM »
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video of Subhanjan Saha in Timesnow

Most irresponsible news coverage by the media without ratifying credentials. One other example which proves How insensitive our media can be and Indian media which needs regulations. 

It was not even an airworthy RC plane for that matter. It was just a RC plane with camera flown LOS. Terming it as Drone is a pure Rubbish and Bul****it.
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 12:13:40 PM »
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Only thing Mr. Manish Tiwari said good and i agree with; "reporters should have test to get licence to report".
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 12:38:09 PM »
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I also respectfully disagree with what Grp Cpt. Tahlan has to say. What US army has is much ahead and different in technology from our hobby grade amateur equipment. Superficially, it seems like our hobby planes can serve the purpose and that the same components are used by theem. They may look similar on the top but there is a lot of innovation,behind them that makes them way ahead of what we use in our hobby. What i am  talking about is about the way these real UAVs are controlled- they are not flown with amateur HAM licensed LRS systems or 2.4G links, nor do they have unencrypted analog video links, or easy to jam GPS navigation. Just because we can transmit live video and have a fancy OSD that resembles a modern fighter HUD doesnt make our system like a F-16 ! We really need to think outside the box and design systems from ground up that can serve the purpose and goals, and not just purchase, plug 'n' play stuff !!

I have been fortunate to get a first hand experience of handling and Flying a Raven RQ-11. So I can vouch for it my HUD and IMU is way better than Raven RQ-11.  Giggle

Gaurav  Firstly my intent of calling all RC Plane in literal sense as UAV was not to stir Hornets nest, but to instill self imposed safe flying practice for all RC fliers like us. Accident with any of them will land us in trouble not only FPV. Mind you I have witnessed my share of some reckless flying by so call experts and veterans.  

Gp Capt Tahlans view are about Tactical UAVs 1 1/2m wingspan, Not the full scale ones which are no different in capability than what you and me are flying. What we have may be infact shade better than what is used by US Army However no denying that they are Hobby Grade stuff only. Difference is in the limit and extent of usage and application. It is only that what is a tactical UAV is shade better in Endurance and resilience. Encrypted Video Links are in the gambit of Full Scale UAVs for now.

Today order of the day is miniaturization. There are applications in hundreds for use of an UAV in civilian peace time applications which do not need encryptions. Some them are like Geo Surveys, rescue operations, Maritime Operations, Disaster relief, Conservation, Operations in inaccessible terrain.

I would like to again reiterate my statement here

A Section of lobbyist due to their deviant motives and ulterior objectives who are only interested in putting a cap on open source development are today deliberately naming it as Drone to discredit all those pursuing this beautiful hobby. We should not inadvertently be a part of this propaganda by contributing overtly or covertly by your misplaced arguments and claims

we should rather be talking about only safe flying habits, Dos and Dont's for safe flying, Responsible Media Coverage of all RC events than try to instill fear and invite bad publicity by talking about fictitious Air traffic clearance Air defence clearances, airworthiness certificates and other legal cover for use of Hobby grade products which you are supposed to fly only LOS as per the manufacturer's instructions away from all Airtraffic and civilian property.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:04:28 PM by sundaram » Logged

 

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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 09:13:57 PM »
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Just saw the video. The media as usual is saying "Kamaal ho gaya, What a great achievement etc etc.". Calling that high wing trainer with a camera attached to it as a path breaking thing is silly.

N the guy seems like very much interested in working with Indian Armed Forces or may be he wants funding to fulfill his interest. ( Sorry, i may sound rude here). I think he is well aware that the armed forces of our country already have the proper so called drones that too sophisticated ones.

Anyway, the media with such news n these rc hobbyists jeopardize our hobby.
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2013, 11:37:58 PM »
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Dont even want to see the video.
Hard to believe TOI in Kolkata, of all places, does not know anything about this hobby!
Other TOI editions carried the story a day or two after it had been criticised in this forum.
A few days later Free Press Journal carried the same story (without crediting TOI).
This is how non-news spreads in India.
Local TOI has been asking me to do a piece.
Now I will. And show them telemetry and aerial video.
Can others also invite media to a day of flying?
And tell them it's only a HOBBY HOBBY HOBBY and nothing sinister.
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 12:27:35 AM »
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EDIT : just a warning, subhanjan watches our forum. I saw photos of the satyaquad on his Facebook page....

if this is the case, I'll strap a fpv system on a chunk of thermocol and call it a "advancement in aerial technology"  the media are so desperate, they'll swallow anything

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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 07:03:44 AM »
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..Air traffic clearance Air defence clearances, airworthiness certificates and other legal cover for use of Hobby grade products which you are supposed to fly only LOS as per the manufacturer's instructions away from all Airtraffic and civilian property.

Sandy
It is not fear, it is real , anything above 50 mts (Even LOS) needs ATC clearance and ADC, make no mistake, ask UAV units who fly BVR (Like you & I do in LR FPV), it has to have a/m clearnces period. else it is illegal if you dont get one, whatever may be your argument. MATS and ICAO rules doesn't distinguish manned / unmanned, because it involves safety of other flying machines flying with humans in them in the vicinity.

Anything that flies above the said ht has to be 25 nm away from a notified airfield (Which includes ALG). it is a different issue that like most laws even this is not enforced in India. However there is a lot of hue and cry being made about it, as to the concerns gaurav expressed. it is being talked about it by most imminent speakers (whom i hear nearly everyday and atlest 5-6 have already mentioned about the growing menace of micro aerial weapons) it is just matter of time before s@it hits the ceiling.

If you think it is unreal, well ! you are entitled to your opinion. i will only urge you think again.

again ! you HUD may be better than Raven, but his symbology & eqpt has gone through air wowrthiness test your has not been through a SEMILAC clearance, sadly that is how it is, you may think it is big BS, it could be, welcome to the world of aviation, where everything comes at a big cost, who is making money? god only knows
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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2013, 07:21:37 AM »
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another food for thought sandy

if UAV units are filing for clearances and flying when only when the clearance is available (in spite of being from the armed forces), what makes you and I different ? what are we   ? above the law ? think about it
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2013, 08:42:34 AM »
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Gusty you have understood everything absolutely wrong. Your 50 mtrs ceiling is plain BS. Anyhow what you are talking about is for imported strategic UAV which india has now which has much greater range, wingspan, which we are flying much higher ceiling, much farther, which AD and AF can track in their RADAR.

India is not having Tactical UAV for now. For now you should talk about legislations for what you can legislate and track in your Radar. What good is your clearance when in tactical scale I am as good a bald eagle in the signature and in numbers I am going to be and invisible. When you can do nothing about that bald eagle why you shit scared about me now.

They are meant to be for tactical use. When talking about clearances for use of tactical UAV at every instance of use you are being wishful there. I am sure you are aware of difference in their operational use. Their clearance is going to be way out of the tactical perspective reqd. That is why they are called tactical.  Infantry units are going to have it in near future. Infantry soldier is going to fly it. In days to come its going to be less than half meter wing span. That design is going to be mine thats my target for now Smiley with SEMILEC. Of Course they have to be flown in safe zones like how we are expected fly in safe zones.

"Anything that flies above the said ht has to be 25 nm away from a notified airfield (Which includes ALG)". Agree with you 200% on that not the statistics though. That is where lets talk about safe flying practice.

"MATS and ICAO rules doesn't distinguish manned / unmanned, because it involves safety of other flying machines flying with humans in them in the vicinity". Could not do anything about trillion birds close to 2 meters wingspan already airborne above 1000 mtrs and while you were flying on providence amongst them till date. Why crying fowl for a meter wingspan now and creating fictitious threat scenario. Its high time big wings better wake up to the reality and upgrade their radars systems and countermeasures instead of calling unfair from high pedestals.

Other day when I went for AirShow in IIT Guwahati was staying in accommodation 150 mtrs from the Guwahati Airport Runway. Both sides of runway was waterlogged and on the trees there were some 500 Nos migratory birds Stroke 1.5mtrs wingspan perched on trees and flying around. That is reality.

Anyhow Lets leave the talk about talk of clearance and airworthy certificate for hobby grade ones altogether for now which is totally out of perspective of the above contentions. You are supposed to fly LOS that is what is black and white. Don't be the Pro lobbyist what I was talking about earlier.  Wink
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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2013, 11:35:38 AM »
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I totally agree to what is said by Gaurav sir, we dont build drone or UAV, these words are totally misleading.

EDIT : just a warning, subhanjan watches our forum. I saw photos of the satyaquad on his Facebook page....

if this is the case, I'll strap a fpv system on a chunk of thermocol and call it a "advancement in aerial technology"  the media are so desperate, they'll swallow anything

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satyaquad?? seriously dude? i have a name satyagupta. You can call me either satya ( i would prefer) or satyagupta but dont just add anything.

Which facebook page can you show me the link you are talking about? Yea he is member of this forum, and yea he does purchase products from me.. But i am no way related to him dude!!! Just an acquaintance

Back to topic: to be true when i started making my quad, i used to think Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes wow one day i will make it fly over mountains and i can make it to go some place, spy over some of our enemy blah blahh. But now i am like who m i kidding!!! This stuff is no way near the real UAV or drone.

So to the students or any new comer to this fab hobby, dont use the work DRONE or UAV, that would make Indian gov to KEELL this hobby quickly.

While writing this i got an idea, would send this content to my customers and put a banner on website too Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
Gaurav sir can i copy and paste this whole post and send to my customers. Pleazeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2013, 02:24:37 PM »
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@satyagupta, that was the name i gave the v939 quad u sell.  Tongue i wasn't insulting you or anything... also, what i meant was that saha may be reading this, because he has visited the forum recently. i know he visited the forum, because he has photos of the v939 quad on his Fb. the quad idea started from this forum, and satya sir sold it through his site.
i am not saying he is related... just saying that watch what you say about hi on the forum, cause he may be watching... Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2013, 02:40:29 PM »
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Ohh in that case my apologies, i read it wrong :headbang:

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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2013, 03:16:58 PM »
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hahaha! subhanjan blocked me from commenting on his video.... what a coward! Tongue
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2013, 09:08:19 PM »
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Bald eagle hits an aeroplane, bald eagle is dead, pilot? ejects/dead. Your aeroplane hits the big bird, then what happens? think about it, flight plan (For BVR), clearances aren't turf war, they are there so that people know where you go and take adequate measure to avoid each other (in time and space, by some 'give and take') it is not turf war. i only hope doing BVR you don't go into / close to some big birds.

Comparing real birds to models aeroplane ? is it a logical analogy ? do we / can we control real birds ? can we control the guys who fly models and prevent them from going into an another big bird carrying humans ? there is your answer.
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« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2013, 09:17:38 PM »
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For you Sandy
just 30 secs from jaipur international airport, Assume if this was FPV,

respond !!
 we will take the discussion further from your response  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2013, 11:50:29 PM »
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Gusty its Turf war from your side. You are taking  this discussion totally off perspective here. You are hell bent upon taking this discussion on strategic levels with analogy of strategic scales when we all are in Hobby Grade. where the fact of the mater is no one in hobby field has that kind of capability. I do not understand your compulsion in this and reason for trying to scare people. we all are talking about hobby grade usage where people who manage close to 10Kms in tactical scales are less than 20 today may be even less than 10 Including DRDO and NAL. I am not even counting you in that 10  Wink. Most of the FPV guys, College kids don't even manage out a Km max 1-2 Kms out BVR. Where I am talking about staying away from all air traffic and Airport for all RC flying, you are talking about deliberately going into it.

Today order of the day is miniaturization. where we are talking about less than a meter span even less than half a meter. which is even more insignificant than a bald eagle. way beyond perspective of AD and AF. You are talking about flight plans and fictitious non available clearances for the same. Fact of the matter is, it is going to be some general area of flying no flight plan. even for operational use.

10 Kms away from any Airport ceiling below 400mtrs any kind of flight plan is totally irrelevant to the flight plan of all big birds. That is why the height restriction of 400Mtrs for even RC flying.

Where there are Trillion natural flying objects already exist in sky which you cannot track or legislate, can do nothing about it. you want to legislate few RC flying guys. I would say this is nothing more than bureaucracy from someone who wants to hold on to the turf dearly.

I am saying first AD and AF need to upgrade their capability to track these insignificant objects in sky in their Radar before even thinking of managing them let alone controlling them. Before that capability to track with AD and AF all the talk of clearances and bureaucracy are logically only leading towards total BAN. That's the reason I have compared birds to FPV flying apart from equivalent wingspans. When you don't have the capability to BAN the birds don't even think about banning RC guys.

First develop the capability to come and knock my door when I get airborne. Few days back some SF guys were flying parallel to active Runway. It did not even come up on the ATC screen. In the days to come Infantry alone is going to have in few hundreds in Tactical scale. Let me see how many clearance you sign for what you cannot track who's flight plan cannot be confirmed. Its going to be just safe flying zones for practice and training away from air traffic.

Similarly I am advocating discussion on safe flying practice and safe flying zones for RC flying, Organizing RC flying into local clubs with self imposed guidelines and restrictions with laid down strict safe flying practice and safe flying zones, rather than taking this discussion in wrong direction.
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2013, 07:25:19 AM »
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There is something called 'Positive Control' and 'Procedure Control'. Even big birds are not on radar always. In fact over waters and most parts of middle east they are not on radar at all. Procedure control is 'notifying' that you aeroplane will be flying above 50 mts (Erstwhile height has recently been downwards revised) beyond visual range, so that one could stay clear of the flight path of the notified aircraft. If you notify, big birds will stay clear. beauty is filling of flight plan (Once again for BVR only) is, it is free and first come first served basis, and aeroplanes with humans in them know that such an aeroplane is flying. it is not a scare, it is the law, a logical one at that. DID ANY ONE TALKED OF BANNING HERE ?

For WVR (Within Visual Range) notify your flying field (Again Free) with the local AD stn, and fly. No one stops you, to the aeroplanes with humans in them a NOTAM is issued that such and such hobby activity is happening in such and such area, below the notifies height. again this is doen for the safety of life. what is wrong in that. I DONT understand

having said that, like the road rules in India, where one can jump the red light, drive on the opposite side, practically do what one wants without any fear, here too it is not imposed, therefore people are flying oblivious of what the consequences can be.

To be seen on radar is not a mandatory requirement at all, most part of my life in flying high speed aeroplanes, i have not only flown below radar cover, also below communication cover, on my own, with no contact with the world whatsoever. HOWEVER people knew that such and such aeroplane is flying in that area. that is procedure control. WHAT is wrong in that ?

You didn't respond to (In one or two sentence, so as to generate meaningful thinking process) previous picture ? is it OK to do that, can one legally do that without spending a penny ? YES, just fill a damn flight plan for free ( heard it is online nowadays).

Coming to the topic perse, the word Drone UAV unfortunately, by the uninformed, has been tagged as Dangerous & Military, if not flown by military, then it is flown by unwanted elements. that's why calling one's contraptions as a Toy or Aeromodel is the safe bet. Unfortunate, but then that's how it is.

lastly ! was i guilty as charged? of course yes, that's why recently the SCN, WW from HQ and appln for permission (Which has not yet come through, therefore i am waiting)

i rest my case, i request people to read carefully (Not speed read), to get the essence of what i am saying. One misdemeanor by anyone. it will bring a lot of flak for this hobby. Fly safe, Fly notified, Happy Landings
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2013, 08:13:17 AM »
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Yes gusty I am saying no different  procedural control can be established only by organizing this activities in organised local clubs with details of each member registered in notified safe flying zones.

When you cannot ensure procedural control for Trillion birds which is already airborne in same scale. When you claim to fly lower than permitted ceiling endangering your life (and the birds  Wink ) amongst them why now paint such a grim picture and extreme threat perception for RC flying. Why not accept the fact that big wings are supposed to maintain a ceiling after few KM away from runway for their own safety and do not pose any threat to RC flying done away from airports. Smiley.

One can make explosives with Soap, milk powder, fertilizer and many more day to day items of use. One can use commercially available motorolas  to wirelessly detonate them. Then there are million more other products used by us day to day which can be dual use of as weapon when in the hands of a criminal mind. Here you can't even keep a track of the buyers and users.

Criminal mind will find a way amidst all your procedures. Its only by your credible capability of tracking them and countermeasures you can ensure safety not by banning entire lot who use soap (electronic chips), milk powder (battery), fertilizer ( RC Plane), motorola ( RC Remote Control) or trying to legislate them.

There is a procedural control for private guns by having licence for every privately owned ones. Inspite of the above million more are floating around without license. So much for procedural control of what you cannot enforce.

Gusty I am not sure whether you are aware of or not, all good FPV systems have a system of transmitting their Call Signs along with their analog transmission while flying, apart from their physical signature. Which are both trackable and locatable in your radar. If only you have the means to do that. So much so for knowing where the RC FPV flying is taking place for your procedural control. My system has it which is always on when I fly. Gurav and Ashok also has it. I am transmitting out in open who I am where I am, I am trying to keep a distance from you when I fly. You are worried sick still because you have yet to figure out how to track me here. To say the least I am more notified in air when I am airborne than the poor Birds which only give out physical signature.

can one legally do that without spending a penny ? YES, just fill a damn flight plan for free ( heard it is online nowadays).
Request you to enlighten us all on the same. Is it really happening for fact for FPV flying by common man  Giggle and how it is gone about. Never we are worried about notifying where we are airborne away from big wings. Its only the rider that you will not be airborne till such time cleared makes us skeptical.

This hobby is pursued by common man. Lets see when you can get a clearance for a common man leave alone one for yourself. Then we will talk about required ATC clearance. Then we will talk about required ATC clearance for pursuing this hobby and would be more than glad to seek one.  Until such time this kind of threat perceptions and procedurals & talk by the ignorant only lead one logical conclusion of total ban.

Till such time its our responsibility to educate them make them more aware.

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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2013, 12:30:09 PM »
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Gusty and Sandy, Guys, Lets keep our cool and lets not ourselves invite trouble by getting into too many specifics in the open. I agree with Sandy, that we shouldnt, inadvertantly become part of the group that is against the new era of RC hobby flying, including FPV.  Gusty, I also agree with you that everyone needs to put their act together and practise safe flying procedures strictly, keep a restraint on what they tell the public and media and also be part of this forum, so we can be a close knit community.

I posted this thread, to make the newcomers, specially college students to be aware of the reality and work towards real innovation versus 'buy, assemble and claim' methodology.

Lets please stick to that, and even though, by the definition, even a stick plane, can be called a UAV, we should refrain from calling it that, in the best interest of this hobby and th aeromodelling community.

Gusty, also that picture you posted from Jaipur was with a Microlight and not FPV ( If i am not wrong ) .

Aniket, no need to worry abour Saha ji . Let him read our posts. He is like a baby who just wet his pants for the first time. Needs a whole lot to learn from here. Unfortunately he is like thousands others who have been just fooling themselves, their parents, their teachers and their friends. It is good to dream , but please be real. What I do not want is that these newcomers spoil the entire scenario of aeromodelling.
99% of what he has said in the media ( videos and print ) is pure BS.  Caution to other new comers to not do this. I would infact go to the extent of notifying his college about the false claims and the actual facts.

Please, this is a hobby - its been like this for over 40 years and will always be. Just adding a few electronic gizmos will not change it. Call your creations hobby aeromodels - for gods sake.
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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2013, 04:02:06 PM »
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Quote
fooling themselves

Gaurav sir, multi-crore rupee debate, summarized in two simple words. I don't see any kind of problem with calling rc flying machines 'Radio Controlled Models' or 'hobby models' and nothing else.
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« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2013, 10:55:18 PM »
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@gauravag
Pl do notify his college.
I'll notify TOI.
Can we not be honest in our own country?
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« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2013, 11:28:06 PM »
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@kk iyer sir, i think people have already notified TOI... but they ignored them.. it's somewhere in this thread only... also, why would a college try to pull down their own student who made them proud? o.O
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2013, 08:36:56 AM »
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The root of the problem is the coverage by inefficient media personnel. As the media house increases, they are filled up by incompetent and inefficient guys. Moreover, as media personnel think they knew all the things with maximum potential, problem generates. It's the problem of yellow journalism.

Just watch even Doordarshan or AIR transmission, you will see pronunciation and spelling mistake in local language (Specially when that is your mother tongue) sometimes. This inefficiency was not previously when quality was prior than quantity and professional quality deterioration due to reservation was absent (Please don't treat this otherwise). Other channel's program is full of the this errors. Being a govt. officer, we are bound not to publish the matter, but with daily NEWS, at least 5 headlines are covered with incomplete information and the essence completely changed due to political personnel. Some civil servents even have to stand back of them with misleading informations. Sad to our country that the officer with a good spine is just vanishing and really, we are feeling loneliness.

We have to realize the fact that
1) The politicians has the better solution than engineer, and
2) News media personnel has better knowledge than expert. ------are totally wrong.

It's the credit of the boy/student that he/she can highlight his creation so much even with inappropriate claim and got succeeded, so he should given full marks in presentation paper. And the culprit is panel of judge/guide.  Huh...
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« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2013, 03:56:40 PM »
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Another one, in this months EFY issue (see attachments)

It's official they're selling it to the DRDO. I don't see any 'innovation' unless the autopilot firmware was actually written up from scratch and the hardware was done from the ground up.

Digging into the archives, this is what I find:

http://www.electronicsforu.com/electronicsforu/circuitarchives/view_article.asp?
sno=662&title%20=%20Aerial+Eye+to+guard+against+Terrorism&id=5086&article_type=5

Seems like ideaForge has had the product ready since 2010. In fact they've already got a P.O from NAL earlier; check the PDF attachment - original source http://www.nal.res.in/pdf/purchase20ead.pdf. I don't know if the price is justified. Bear in mind the P.O mentions only the autopilot!

Also, check out the autopilot h/w specs. Does it look familiar? I don't know if its the spec of a stock module but others may be able to comment. Wonder why the name or the architecture of the ARM chip has not been disclosed, in the P.O

netra-1.jpg
Re: Please stop calling model hobby airplanes & multirotors as ‘UAV’s and ‘Drone’s.
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« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2013, 06:42:42 PM »
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Colorado town to consider drone hunting license, bounty Giggle

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/drone-hunting-colorado-172357477.html

this is Tex'ass'

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/texas-law-gets-tough-on-public-private-drone-use/
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« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2013, 10:03:28 AM »
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Again what a sick media

http://grab.by/qrVQ

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIM/2013/09/20&PageLabel=4&EntityId=Pc00412&ViewMode=HTML

Perhaps if you google about airpix (guys who did this) you would find their show reel on which it is mentioned multirotor as a drone  Sad Sad
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2013, 07:30:27 AM »
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Here is another stupid incident, there is a lesson in this for all of us.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=9270668
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2013, 07:52:58 AM »
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IF it would have been in India, the Govt would have banned permanent use/Sale of RC related stuffs. and we would be forced to do some black market research just like how we search for Methanol in Tamilnadu.
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2013, 08:15:39 PM »
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The fall-out...

http://ask.slashdot.org/story/13/10/04/200243/ask-slashdot-time-to-regulate-domestic-drones
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« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2013, 04:36:18 PM »
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 Thumbs Up Thumbs Up well said buddy  Hats Off
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« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2013, 05:02:37 PM »
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« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2013, 05:15:23 PM »
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His name is "sudipta" pronounced as "sudipto" I guess
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2013, 11:46:29 PM »
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/9/4821094/remote-aircraft-pilot-fights-faa-fine-could-change-drone-rules
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« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 08:51:52 AM »
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@yash   yes yash  Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2013, 11:37:40 PM »
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http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/84050
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« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 10:18:01 AM »
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-24/drone-pilot-fine-tests-industry-seen-reaching-89-billion.html

Interesting read up on actual scenario in US on Drones less than 25 Pounds.
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« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2014, 12:34:15 PM »
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just another bump may be.... where a RC show was termed as UAV show.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/expo-shows-what-uavs-can-do/article5643480.ece

correct me if wrong or if i have wrongly understood...
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« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2014, 07:57:35 PM »
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Re:

Absolutely !! The organisers and media both want to get in the limelight at the sake of our hobby

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« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2014, 04:04:35 PM »
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UAV show and no fpv planes.. Sad.
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« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2014, 11:58:30 PM »
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http://modernfarmer.com/2014/02/dear-modern-farmer-can-use-drone-farm/
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« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2014, 10:30:18 AM »
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Update on fined drone pilot

Article on "Drones Could Be Coming to American Skies Sooner Than You Think
Thanks to a 29-year-old "aerial anarchist" and his styrofoam airplane.
By JASON KOEBLER January 28, 2014"

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/drones-faa-lawsuit-coming-to-american-skies-102754.html#.UuiAnBCwrIU
http://dronecenter.bard.edu/interview-aerial-anarchist/

FAA-Stops-Beer-Drone-Delivery   Wink
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/01/30/FAA-Stops-Beer-Drone-Delivery

http://www.aerotechnews.com/news/2014/02/05/drydens-droid-demonstrates-autonomous-uas-to-uas-air-tow/
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« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2014, 11:06:49 AM »
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This is a drone: Watch the first footage of the UK's Cylon-like stealth drone in flight. New UK stealth drone looks like something straight out of SkyNet.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19eutwimafgyajpg/ku-xlarge.jpg
Please stop calling model hobby airplanes & multirotors as ‘UAV’s and ‘Drone’s.
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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2014, 03:19:44 PM »
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All of us should read the defence counsel's arguments against the $ 10,000 fine.
Link is within the article in the link provided by Anwar Sir in reply no 53 above.
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« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2014, 05:32:14 PM »
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Can we please Pardon Media for their business reasons!!  Giggle Giggle

Relax friends; media has Politics & Netas & Keriwal's & corruptions & MODI's and Babas to play with.

Discussion about Flying is just a novelty item (for the sake of)  in the newspaper and none including the editor take these articles serious. These articles got place in the news only when they find it hard to fill the space.

 Grin FLy Bindass!!! Crash Bindass!! 

Ps: Those who feel threatened with Authorities have their OWN reasons  Wink. Rest all of us can Chillofy.
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« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2014, 06:30:33 PM »
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 Grin Grin
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« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2014, 12:28:54 PM »
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Also objectionable when people call aeromodels as 'toy-planes'.
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« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2014, 12:45:52 PM »
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Patient Zero



Also objectionable when people call aeromodels as 'toy-planes'.

It is not objectionable they are after all big boys toys Smiley
Just like cool bikes and cars

Can anyone tell me the true definition of a drone or UAV?
What is the basic requirements a vehicle should have before it is termed as a drone or UAV?

If surveillance capabilities is the one of the requirements to term an aircraft as a drone or UAV then thats absurd.
Beacuse then all FPV capable planes and multis become drones or UAV's?
Just asking for my knowledge and so that others can know too.
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« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2014, 12:22:59 AM »
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Commercial drones are legal in the US for the time being, court rules
http://diydrones.com/m/blogpost?id=705844%3ABlogPost%3A1583095
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« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2014, 09:44:33 AM »
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Extract of latest Judgement passed unfavorable to FAA Jurisdiction.

Drones Cleared for Takeoff
The FAA dreams of regulating drone use, but a wise federal judge has grounded that idea.

By L. GORDON CROVITZ - Wall Street Journal

March 16, 2014 6:36 p.m. ET

Since 2007, the Federal Aviation Administration has threatened to prosecute anyone who uses a drone for commercial purposes. Regulators have managed to block the development of drones in the U.S. even as this new technology has quickly taken to the skies overseas.

This month a federal administrative judge held that the FAA has no legal authority to meddle in the market and dismissed a fine levied against an operator who defied regulators by getting paid to use a drone to film the University of Virginia campus. Judge Patrick Geraghty of the National Transportation Safety Board ruled that the agency had only issued internal guidance on drones and hadn't followed any process to apply restrictions to the public. He ridiculed the FAA's broad assertion of power to regulate drones by saying the agency could use the same argument arbitrarily to block "a flight in the air of a paper aircraft, or a toy balsa wood glider."

The FAA has appealed, still intent on grounding one of the most promising new industries made possible by the Internet. Instead of approving the safe use of drones, regulators have undermined innovation to block a new technology. The FAA has allowed only two commercial uses of drones, both in the remote Arctic off Alaska. Congress got fed up with agency foot-dragging and in 2010 passed a law ordering the agency to issue rules making drones legal for commercial use by 2015. The agency says it won't meet the deadline.

A camera drone flies near the scene where two buildings collapsed in East Harlem in New York City on March 12. Reuters

While bureaucrats dither, many U.S. businesses are engaging in regulatory civil disobedience. The Fresno Bee recently acquired a drone for gathering news, although other news organizations have received cease-and-desist orders. Director Martin Scorsese used a drone to film a scene in "The Wolf of Wall Street," though the FAA has gone after other film companies. Real-estate companies use drones to make videos about properties for sale. Baseball teams including the Washington Nationals use drones to monitor the performance of players during spring training.

"The more the FAA acts like a big Daddy, behemoth government agency that is imposing excessive restrictions," former FAA chief counsel Ted Ellett told Politico recently, "the more the feeling of 'I'm an American, they can't tell me what to do' kicks in."

The FAA allows "recreational" use of low-flying light drones. Consumers can choose among quadcopters, hexacopters and octocopters, most of which are made outside the U.S.

Governments in other countries have encouraged drones. Jeff Bezos hopes U.S. regulators will someday permit Amazon to deliver products via drone. Australia has already blessed a Sydney-based textbook retailer's plan to do just that. A video of a drone flying into an active volcano in the small Pacific island nation of Vanuatu went viral last week. A recent Wall Street Journal report gave these examples of businesses using drones: farmers in Japan to spread pesticides on 40% of rice fields, miners in Switzerland to make three-dimensional maps, and construction workers in Britain to survey sites of nuclear power plants.

Washington's antibusiness prohibition of drones is reminiscent of the beginnings of the Internet. For years, commercial use was a crime. A handbook issued at MIT MITD -19.95% in 1982 warned: "It is considered illegal to use the ARPAnet for anything which is not in direct support of government business. . . . Sending electronic mail over the ARPAnet for commercial profit or political purposes is both anti-social and illegal . . . and it is possible to get MIT in serious trouble with the government agencies which manage the ARPAnet."

President Obama tried to rewrite history with his "you didn't build that" speech in 2012. He asserted: "The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all companies could make money off the Internet." In reality, the Internet took off only in the 1990s, when Congress liberated it from exclusive use by the government.

The Internet is now permissionless: Websites and apps are launched without government approval. But many of the next generation of innovations are stuck in a mother-may-I morass of regulation. This includes iPhone-controlled, WiFi-connected and GPS-reliant drones as well as other "Internet of things" innovations like connected cars and medical devices. Existing tort and contract law cover most safety and privacy concerns. In any case, there's no excuse for bureaucrats to criminalize innovation while they delay approvals.

A lightly regulated Internet has shown entrepreneurs and consumers what can happen when government gets out of the way. Washington's refusal to allow drones to take off is a reminder that most industries in the U.S. remain hostage to slow-moving, risk-averse regulators. The freedom to innovate without asking permission should become the rule for all U.S. industries, not the rare exception.
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« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2014, 12:12:54 AM »
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hi all,

I feel the same.
To really distinguish any model aircraft out there. We have to categorize, what electronics define hobby, what don't.

May be a list of items that are found in the aircraft define its hobby grade.
People or media can compare from the list and give a better name for what they see.

Thanks
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« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2014, 09:20:31 AM »
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Hello All

We wanted to check the NOTICE with a different angle.

Knowledgeable friends, please help and search meaning of INDIAN CIVIL AIRSPACE.

We are sure my backyard / terrace is not INDIAN CIVIL AIRSPACE.

Another key point of thought is if we are not in INDIAN CIVIL AIRSPACE, why are we worried? Does DGCA hold authority over every inch of space? Of my drawing room too?

Regards,

Sphere Hobbies
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« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2014, 01:30:09 PM »
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Re:

As per what I have been told by a commercial pilot...  Any thing above 20 mts above the ground is Indian civilian air space
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« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2014, 01:34:16 PM »
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you mean I have to inform and take clearance from the ATC every time I take the lift to go to my grandmothers flat on the 15th floor ?
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« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2014, 01:44:57 PM »
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SPN



ROFL
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« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2014, 02:13:58 PM »
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As of now no clear rules are their
This weekend i went to a place where some police officers followed us as it is deserted and visit for regular roundup
U was flying my tbs discovery pro
They asked what it is how does it fly what is the range if it has a camera saw it fly for two mins they left

If dgca had provided proper rules and guidelines the roundup police would have stopped me from flying it

Rather they didnt know what it is and what it does
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« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2014, 05:51:50 PM »
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a video that caused 10K$ fine Pirker is defending it of course



Stadium Drones: Are Fans In Danger? Article for reading


Here is NTSB ruling which says anything that flies needs a license I wont be surprised if we follow suit, coz it's easy to copy you see, coz HIGHER civilisation would done all the thinking isn't it ?

If that happens these will require license too, but then remember what i talked about 'Free Sprit''

paper-airplane.jpg
Re: Please stop calling model hobby airplanes & multirotors as ‘UAV’s and ‘Drone’s.
* paper-airplane.jpg (10.28 KB, 400x300 - viewed 318 times.)
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Gusty's Hangar and Introduction.

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A Great pilot will practice until he can’t get it wrong.
 

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« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2014, 06:22:37 PM »
sanjayrai55
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sanjayrai55 is a rising star!sanjayrai55 is a rising star!sanjayrai55 is a rising star!sanjayrai55 is a rising star!sanjayrai55 is a rising star!sanjayrai55 is a rising star!
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Yup  ROFL

But Gusty Saheb, the future is not looking too rosy. Whereas in India there will always be a way around, we would be subject to harassment and in the event of any accident could be in big trouble.

Maybe..........time for boats? Giggle
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« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2014, 07:45:54 PM »
K K Iyer
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@sanjayrai55
No sir.
Time for planes. HYDRO-planes.

I thought that $10k fine has since been quashed by the Judge...
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« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2014, 08:03:41 PM »
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This guy is playing New York sized Ping Pong! :O :O :O
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 10:54:48 PM by rcpilotacro » Logged

oui
 

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« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2014, 10:03:01 PM »
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This video involved where a model airplane crashed with a real one.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoZD9pczEVs&feature=youtu.be


« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 10:57:35 PM by rcpilotacro » Logged
 

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« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2015, 12:31:41 PM »
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When i read all posts.... i just feel i m still a "Lil Kid" in all this....
So i wouldn't mind calling u all "Guru's".

Can someone please help me in getting out my parcel from customs? Its a WLtoys V666 FPV MULTIROTOR. STUCK IN AHMEDABAD FPO.
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« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2015, 12:09:53 PM »
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 Head Scratching Head Scratching  Huh? Shocked


What we think about this coverage Huh??

drone.jpg
Re: Please stop calling model hobby airplanes & multirotors as ‘UAV’s and ‘Drone’s.
* drone.jpg (180.07 KB, 669x800 - viewed 541 times.)
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(Sky Surfer V2 , Tiger Trainer MK III nitro , Arising Star nitro, Beetle QuadCopter , Avionic RCB 7x Tx, Futaba T6 EX 2.4 Ghz Tx , Q450 Quadcopter with DJI NAZA M, JR XG 6 Tx , Techone Arrow 3D, Extra 300s 3D, Lil Ripper 3D foamy,  LH X1mini quadcopter, HJT EPO Quadcopter,Funtana 3D,FLYGUY 46" Superman, F-35 Jet, Mig-25 Foxbat Jet,    Frsky TARANIS PLUS TX , FT VERSA WING ,RC Flying Eagle)
 

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« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2015, 09:13:49 PM »
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Haven't anyone got a journalist friend through whom we can express our views?Can't we have registration of our models similar to vehicles (model no. plate)(i think someone on this forum did mention it!!)
Why can't the government bring this hobby to use or take any ideas...like israel's done making competition ? Hats Off
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« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2015, 02:58:28 PM »
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Mr. Agrawal sir. it would be great if you could mention which newspaper and date is that we can't read anything.
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« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2015, 04:25:20 PM »
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We lost it; use of word ‘UAV’s and ‘Drone’ for hobby airplanes & multirotors is now common in journalism, nothing can be done.
@Himadri Roy : registration and other intervention from govt like bodies will only make situation worse.
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« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2015, 05:37:40 PM »
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I did think about that after posting.... Bang Head
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« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2015, 08:22:56 PM »
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Hi nitesh

it is in Dainik Bhaskar dated 09/02/2015 RAIPUR EDITION

YOU CAN SEE IT ON www.bhaskar.com epaper chattisgarh edition

Will try to provide link
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« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2016, 10:17:42 PM »
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Hi,

I wanted to let you know about this petition I just started on Change.org, "Directorate of General Civil Aviation (DGCA): Immediate Govt. regulation change regarding recreational Rc flying".
You can read more about it and sign the petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/directorate-of-general-civil-aviation-dgca-immediate-govt-regulation-change-regarding-recreational-rc-flying?recruiter=456616274

Created in struggle by the will of aeromodllers
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« Reply #82 on: March 02, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »
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Now whos next??



So if i call it a Quadcopter, i wont be arrested. Head Scratching Huh?
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« Reply #83 on: March 02, 2017, 10:05:05 PM »
prabal276
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you will be better off.
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« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2017, 10:48:48 AM »
kartp3112
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Now whos next??



I doubt if the government will pay attention,
But anyway THATS THW SPIRIT!
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