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« on: October 13, 2010, 05:32:09 PM »
ujjwaana
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Just came across this forum for selling used Microlight/Ultralight planes. Amazingly, they are very much affordable, cheaper than used cars, slightly above average one month's salary in US!

http://www.usedultralightplaneforsale.com/current-used-ultralight-planes-for-sale-auction/

Cant even dream of having a 50cc RC plane with average salary in India!
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 05:54:36 PM »
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True, ten years back could only manage IHC balsa kits, now, though different, got used to spending sparingly on the hobby. But still the same passion and joy with these planes Wink
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 06:09:17 PM by anwar » Logged
 

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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 06:49:03 PM »
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http://x-air.in/html/costs.htm
This is an ultralight Indian manufacturer Raj Hamsa based in bangalore - who seems to well known for their ultralight brand X-Air around the world. Export prices seem to be around 8lacs including shipping to the US - so I guess its should be cheaper here. Anyone who has more info on ultralights or their flying regulations here, do share your valuable insights.
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 07:17:16 PM »
ujjwaana
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They cost around Rs 6 Lacks (USD 12000) Airframe alone. The link I shared above has used ones with engine, prop and avionics for as little as USD 6000.
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 07:42:26 PM »
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That proves in India how every seller (rc planes or ultralight) fleece people without any guilt.
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 10:48:33 PM »
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CrazyPilot,
I do not think that is an accusation with which you can paint everyone. Try importing a commercial consignment and see for yourself how things stack up. Unless you have a local mass manufacturer and masses to buy in mass, prices here in India would remain high.

Ujjwana
When you say used you are missing on the point used to what extent? A used flying machine would need a good spend on TLC/certification etc. Do add up those costs as well. And then again with everything else, the market dictates the price, higher the number of buyers, higher the production which would tend to increase competition and lower the price. See the mobile handset and tariff market for an example

 
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 11:11:59 PM »
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Here in India people work in so called world class MNC for many years & buy a car on a loan.. that too a standard simple car a "maruti" but if i do the same work in the US i can afford a Benz.. & live a luxurious life as compared to India were buses & trains are mostly filled with dogs & cats..
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 10:16:42 AM »
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Post removed in view of clarification posted by Sharlock below
let us all fly and have landings which are all right side up!    
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 11:01:12 AM »
anwar
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I seemed to have missed that post Sad  And yes, it is out of context, and offensive.

There are many things that are broken about our country (the same applies to any other country), but belittling oneself (be it self, or the country) is just childish.  And that too at a time when the world is looking at India as an emerging power !

There are things that are beyond money, perhaps that realization comes with wider interaction, age and life experiences.  Money can fix a lot, but not everything that is broken.
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 11:02:37 AM »
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I took my words back.....

[Admin Note] Edited... absolutely no name calling, regardless of the issue. Protest... YES, argue against... ABSOLUTELY YES, calling names... NEVER Sad
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 11:03:48 AM »
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I am sorry if you take this in a negative way but in no way i mean to hurt anyone..

I myself a Indian but i have seen how people work hard here especially in the MNC industry & still live a hard life not that easy.. I am from a IT industry & to tell you what i have seen in past 8 years what this industry really is & how people work.. especially girls working for 10 to 12 hours a day to meet the US, Europe given deadlines they work every day for an average of 10 to 12 hours sometimes saturday sunday & have seen their health condition.. & above that get paid the same salary, no pay for the extra hours worked..  Now see the same branch in the US & UK they come on time & leave on time.. just try calling them after 6 & they are gone...

When the client comes from abroad I have seen how these big company officials run behind them like dogs & cats.

I am no way trying to put anyone down, I know how people work hard here but dont get paid right & bad work culture. We all have to come up & fight this so called slavery. I hope you understand
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 11:21:32 AM »
anwar
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I am in the same industry, and I have seen many of my american colleagues/friends in multiple companies (and these are some of the biggest and best companies in the world) in the US work for 24 hours and sometimes 36 hours straight to meet deadlines, with no special DIRECT benefits.  Yes, there are small "considerations" for their efforts at times, but no direct benefits.

UK (and Europe in general) is more relaxed compared to the US and other places.  They seem to give more importance to "quality of life" (as they put it... not sure losing one conscience every day at a pub qualifies for that), with the direct consequence of being less productive. Work "smart" seems to only go so far, as compared to work "hard" !

In any case, India has unique issues, starting with the population. I hope I never see the day when every family has a car/Benz here !  I would much rather see a Singapore style public transport solution here !  There are realities that have to sink in, just like how many genuine LHSes are maligned.

I'll say this... put yourself on the "other side" for a moment, and life will be a lot easier !
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 11:21:43 AM »
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I am not able to understand one simple THING, that why to do such thing that one has to feel sorry. your words were put in such a way that everyone thinking will land only in negative, like i thought that you hate India....thats why my words ...........
there are many other friends working in software company in US, UK who also give the same comments while travelling in train..same dogs and cats. but the only difference between them is the people and culture..we have a different culture and we have different thinking pattern....
I am born and brought up in Delhi but now working in Mumbai for the last last year 3 years, Mumbai has a totally different living pattern and now i am adjusted to this life, In Delhi i use to drive down to office in my car which was 9 KM, Here i travel by train and i think it is much comfortable then Car in Delhi, this doesn't mean that i hate Delhi and i am also traveling in train like dog and cat....
Words are like Magic sword..if you use it properly then it is GOD other wise DOG.

Alif ke her fer se Khuda bhee Juda ho Jata Hai...

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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 11:26:46 AM »
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Just a note to everyone. Sharlock has clarified that he meant no harm, and has tendered his regret publicly and in private.  Please avoid comments that causes pain to ANYONE.
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 11:30:48 AM »
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 Clap Maaf Kiya  Grin Clap
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 12:33:23 PM »
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 Head Scratching
Whatever happened to the discussions on Ultralights  Help Me ........................................
 Head Scratching
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 02:46:55 PM »
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The discussions were never on ultralights themselves, but on cost of ownership vis a vis a model airplane of large size
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 03:06:10 PM »
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The discussions were never on ultralights themselves, but on cost of ownership vis a vis a model airplane of large size

I Think both Martian and Captain (FLyingboxcar) got some of my point.
Things have been so unaffordable in the country for somany reason. They were much worse before the country opened up in 1990's.

My whole point was - See, many average american can buy (to begin with, notwithstanding maintenance etc) an airworthy used Ultralight with their one month's salary. On the same hand, most of average salaried Indians can't even think buying a large R/C plane with their monthly salary.

Most of my friends in US already drive cars (one even Gollardo) which I most probably would never be able to own in India in my life time.

For us, it is still earn in Rupees and spend in Dollars. Not just in RC - we pay more than the USD equivalent in India at Dominos, Pizzahut, Subway, Levis, Benetton, Sony, Samsung, Honda, et all, what it would have been costed in US!!

Please no LHS bashing. Its a general comment.
No offense against the country. Things are getting better. May be its just market dynamics. I totally agree to Anwar that we see American through Hollywood. I know many of my US teammates having better Work-Life balance, working as hard as we, in fact more productively than average Indians.

The US counterparts (most of walks of profession) earn 4 times more in 'universal' currency equivalent to Indian. But commodity items are on many account cheaper than India with same universal equivalent.
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 03:27:11 PM »
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I am in the same industry, and I have seen many of my american colleagues/friends in multiple companies (and these are some of the biggest and best companies in the world) in the US work for 24 hours and sometimes 36 hours straight to meet deadlines, with no special DIRECT benefits.  Yes, there are small "considerations" for their efforts at times, but no direct benefits.

UK (and Europe in general) is more relaxed compared to the US and other places.  They seem to give more importance to "quality of life" (as they put it... not sure losing one conscience every day at a pub qualifies for that), with the direct consequence of being less productive. Work "smart" seems to only go so far, as compared to work "hard" !

In any case, India has unique issues, starting with the population. I hope I never see the day when every family has a car/Benz here !  I would much rather see a Singapore style public transport solution here !  There are realities that have to sink in, just like how many genuine LHSes are maligned.

I'll say this... put yourself on the "other side" for a moment, and life will be a lot easier !

Thanks for your words Anwar you said it right.
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 04:05:28 PM »
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Here in India people work in so called world class MNC for many years & buy a car on a loan.. that too a standard simple car a "maruti" but if i do the same work in the US i can afford a Benz.. & live a luxurious life as compared to India were buses & trains are mostly filled with dogs & cats..
i don't understand why people choked you for saying this and why you had to appologise for that.
After the recession most of my friends got on long term assignments to US or Canada. And in less than two years time they are driving cars like Accord V6 and Camaro. Plus they have brought 2-3 BHK flats here in Pune. I bet they can buy an ultralight if they wanted to. I was the top earner in my small friend circle and i have till now just managed to buy a Ford Ikon for my dad. And now i am not getting a decent loan to buy a flat because of loan for the car.
The truth remains the truth, no matter how much it offends someone.
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2010, 04:32:04 PM »
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thinking of Ultralights ! even microlights are cheap ! Roll Eyes
but thing is who is going fly it? in India  at least you need PPL to fly it
what about place you need to fly ? if you want to fly at aerodromes you need to pay accordingly!
getting approval ? here is the word required cats n dogs ,you need to run behind DGCA people like cats n dogs to get approval!
where are you going to park aircraft after flying ? you need to pay for that also
at last what fuel you are  going to use? it requires special gasoline meant for aero piston engine colored blue 100 octane !

at last coming to maintenance  even for tightening screw and getting COA( certificate of airworthiness) you need approved AME!
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2010, 05:15:54 PM »
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i don't understand why people choked you for saying this and why you had to appologise for that.

In case it is not clear

1.  The generalization about cat and dogs in trains and buses, which are exceptions rather than rules (and as if Delhi metro etc did not exist). The way that statement can be true is when you equate fellow Indians to cats and dogs, which is the big reason why people protested.

2.  The notion of slavery, without realizing that similar situation prevails everywhere, and affects not just Indians.

3.  Yes, there is difference in currency exchange rates, and living standards.  That does not mean we go about dissing everyone in the name of a majority who chose to live a life of 12 hour work days. One could argue they had little choice, but is that really the case ?

4.  There is a factor of "happiness/satisfaction", which is not entirely tied to money. To put things in perspective, what does owning a Benz really mean, as compared to any other decent car, other than "I have better/bigger toys than you" ?  In the so called luxurious life in the US/Europe with an MNC, there is just a perpetual trap of loans and bills to pay every month, and living in constant fear of losing ones job (which is often true locally too), and most of the time ending up with little to no savings ! 

Perhaps another way of wording the original post would have made it sound less offensive against the nation as a whole.


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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2010, 07:27:17 PM »
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4.  There is a factor of "happiness/satisfaction", which is not entirely tied to money. To put things in perspective, what does owning a Benz really mean, as compared to any other decent car, other than "I have better/bigger toys than you" ?  The so called luxurious life in the US/Europe on an MNC position there is just a perpetual trap of loans and bills to pay every month, and living in constant fear of losing ones job (which is often true locally too), and most of the time ending up with little to no savings ! 

Perhaps another way of wording the same would have made it sound less offensive against the nation as a whole.

Try watching CAPITALISM-A LOVE STORY by Michael Moore
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2010, 07:38:01 PM »
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Also watch SICKO by Michael Moore.. Even though there is so much money to be made there, I wouldn't want to live there forever..
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2010, 07:51:17 PM »
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Also watch SICKO by Michael Moore.. Even though there is so much money to be made there, I wouldn't want to live there forever..

If it was intended for me then i have seen it and its nothing compared to Health services in our beloved country.
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