RC India

Under this letter, all radio controlled aircraft, single or multirotor or fixed wing, are now illegal and banned

Gentlemen: we are all law-breakers!!

It's been said true, "No one will come to help you if you're doing something but someone will surely come to spoil it".

So they should as well ban the birds since they are also flying in "civil airspace" without any regulations. And kites too.

"Till such regulations are issued..."
Pretty sure that means, "F*** off. I don't wanna see another plane EVER!" or at least till the tenure of director is over. Its sad India seems to be going backwards in time. Before we used to have unlimited internet plans. Now all comes with FUP when I expected them to lower the rates and increase the speed and network.

But the ban is on flying in the airspace. I am sure upto a few feet is ok else all apartment builders would have needed dcga clearance. Doesn't air space start a few feet above ground?

As per Gusty any thing which leave ground more than 20 Mtrs is in Aviation Airspace.

All of you guys please change to micro RC gears and fly strictly only indoors.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Horrible Retards who make up for administration of this nation.  :banghead: :banghead:

Sanjay Sir this entire thread needs to be be merged with the Please don't call your models Drones thread.

here we go again

oh no..!!
I Just gt myself into this hobby. very bad news. i am going to be a criminal.  :violent:

Pizza guy where are you
I would like to cordially invite you to apologies to the hobby community
This all started from the most irresponsible  public stunt which was fake....

Is there some kind of petition that we all can sign and do something ?

We should revolt this actually

Does anybody know any procedure to start a petition against this ?

chintal sir u are right. they must do that.

Go ahead Chintal, be revolting  :giggle: :giggle: ;)

The DGCA Strikes Back

Background music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMNNpIksaI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMNNpIksaI#)


Next Installment: The Return of the Aeromodellers!

Sir I think that there should be a way to take a special license , so that we can fly , of course in a specific place only

Heard of AMAI? (amai.in)

This was it's raison détre

Now it is beset by internal politics, so much so

The laws of our country are many and varied.

Technically it will always be illegal to fly, unless on private property. You could always be stopped for creating nuisance.

So just keep on flying with a twinkle in your eye and a song on your lips  ;D ;D

I do t know about u guys but i m not gonna stop flying.....

Thanks sir , I have this big ground in front of my temporary rented house in Pune , do you think , if I fly here , anybody would stop me ?

me too. i am practicing. i'll not stop.
but what'll be the charges against me for violating the law?

Law ?
A person can drive over a guy sleeping on footpath and still roam freely
As long as u are not flying in public and very high or commercially we all should be good

I am not encouraging anyone to break the laws ....

We'll smuggle a hacksaw blade in a cake to you when they lock you up  :rofl: :rofl:

So what going to next ,how about supply of partstx rx motor batter etc etc all illegal to sale

I wont require that
Just send me a mini quad
That will do ROLF....

Or just keep some money in your pockets , if people can get away by bribing traffic police than they can surely get away by bribing air police !!!

thank you sir.
but what is limit as you have mentioned "very high".

How many aircrafts in India got crashed due to arc flying, RC people love aviation
we know what we are doing?

hahaha. thank you sanjay sir.
then i will never stop flying.

Just fly above your head
Anyways have you installed osd or telemetry that you would know the hight of your plane or quad ?

That was a one time only , only valid for Chintal !  ;D

yes sir. i have installed 900MHz telemetry V2.

Dagca can make us survive by giving us limited airspace outside the city and airports

I read the notice its valid for UAVs technically speaking quadcopters and hobby planes are not UAVs its time these retard DGCA official learnt the difference pathetic

then i'm on my own.  :'( :'(

Don't worry , I'll send a mini Dremel , inside a Black Forest cake for you , it will help more than a hacksaw !

Devang You lucky guy!!!!! I am drooling over seeing the open space photo.  :giggle: :giggle:

Lol
Well some serious stuff
Their are loopholes in this notice itself so
PLZ ALL IF YOU FIND A LOOPHOLE DONT SHARE IT HERE

Thanks

Well DGCA needs to get its head out of the ground . How much of a payload can a hobby grade quad can fly with ? Does it posses more threat than some lunatic on a bike ? I doubt ! Secondly some of us are more than happy calling our quads as 'drones' dont you think its a stupid thing to do so ? We do not have any kind of regulatory board which can guide us . IMO DGCA should issue guidelines as to how to operate our aircrafts , what height they should fly at , the maximum take off weight etc etc , that would be much better and sensible rather than banning it outright .

BTW my luck can time out any week , I contacted a person to get permission to fly , he told me that it's okay to fly there , till some time , because after some time , they are going to start construction . that place is actually owned by the government , they are planning to build the international automobile exhibition centre there . They say that it's going to be the biggest exhibition centre around the globe

Here's the public link:
http://dgca.nic.in/public_notice/PN_UAS.pdf (http://dgca.nic.in/public_notice/PN_UAS.pdf)

Next notice will be not to discuss airplanes in Internet space. The next one not to send metal objects in cakespace

:bow: DGCA

But what's the max thing , they are gonna do about stopping us ? And by when this should be sent to all police personnel ?

If this so called ILLEGAL activity is taken serious by the police then ppl be careful while flying in ur city rc airfields , coz anytym cops could drop by and shout " ur TERMINATED"!! >:D >:D

is selling rc stuff ILLEGAL??

you are right..if DGCA wants controls over it..the details must be declared.
and we dont have 'drones'. they should read the topic. http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/please-stop-calling-model-hobby-airplanes-multirotors-as-uavs-and-drones/ (http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/please-stop-calling-model-hobby-airplanes-multirotors-as-uavs-and-drones/)
i dont think my quad can fly over 35000 ft and hit an aircraft.

Sir this is great. first DGCA..and now construction company.

Lets talk some sense here,this is a non speaking order without any reference of law. But my dear friends we all have to accept that this is an administrative order & not law of the land.

Administrative orders are always precautionary & keeping in mind the potential risks. We all have to agree to the fact the now this hobby in India gained a lot of traction in past few years and people are using really long rage model aircrafts, Quadcopters with really great quality cameras and GPSs and many such other stuff & small & big turbines; which they themselves knows are not appropriate in terms of safety & security.

Had you guys in the shoes of DGCA what would you be doing to avert any potential threat to the air space of your country? Many pilots here know the importance of Airspace security.

This order is not holding you criminal for flying a model rc plane; but yeah its giving an advice to those people who knows (genuinely) what they are doing by installing a FPV with a range of 25 Kms or flying 50cc, 100cc engine models near highways (may be outside the city).

This order will definitely lead to undue harassment under some circumstances.


For those who were asking to challenge this order, they may kindly file a Write petition in the Hon'ble High Court under 226 for a stay on this order & request for a prudent law on this. (you can do only after exhausting the existing remedies i.e. sending representations to the DGCA & Ministry of Civil Aviation & if you dont receive any reply from them. Also you need to prove that you are directly affected from this order)


I dont see anything wrong in this order for two simple reasons:
a) India is a huge country & without authorities knowing now people are knowing/unknowingly using Airspace irresponsibly hence such a blanket order is the only way to address this issue.
b) They themselves accepted that there is a dire need of proper regulation here; hence till this regulation comes in place they have no option but to restrict.
 






  

 :rofl: :rofl: :goodjob:

Are we waiting for this to happen?

[/quote]

Only people in this business can challenge this kind of order; because they can prove a genuine loss in a completely legal business. Govt. may regulate & define terms of business.

Even flying

Sir i understand.
and i am sorry if i have said something wrong. i dont want to violate any of these. but i am new in this part and just completed my build. i follow the basic rules..not to fly in a populated area..not near any aiport..always fly in manual mode..and so on.
sir if i stop flying it'll be a showpiece. i am not against the law..but dont know how to fly my quad legally.

What is an "UAS" exactly? Everything I fly, is a toy. ;D

For all and sundry

AMAI is undergoing a lot of change, last heard Mr Nagar is no more the President of AMAI, as usual..this petty politics too was predicted


PS
no offense meant or implied

+1 to to Sir.
Associations has nothing to do but politics  :)

I second that the defination of a 'drone' needs to be cleared
What is a dron ?
What is its range ?
What is its payload ?
Etc , as of now we dont know anything so calling our quads as drones makes no sense

Since i fly control line on 60 ft lines, i now propose to stop doing wingovers.

(If this doesn't make sense to RC guys, just remember to fly below 20 meters, 5.5km away from airports, when it's not foggy or cloudy and you can SEE your model with your OWN eyes, especially if you do not have an Instrument Rating...)

Respected Sir,
Does your captioned notice mean that that all recreational flying by aeromodellers is to be stopped?
Since i have been an aeromodeller for the last 45 years, and i and my wife fly RC models at an empty plot on sundays with a few friends, i need to know if it is still legal to do so.
Regards
K K Iyer,
Retired Director,
State Bank Foundation Institute -Chetana
Indore

Edit: Will I get a reply?

Hi guys , so I went to my family lawyer with my dad and showed him a copy of the notice , the lawyer  said that the notice is meant to scare off the pizza delivery people , and the police is not gonna do anything , if my dad and I fly with the permission of the landlord/contractor of that ground . And the police is certainly not going to put an inch tape to check whether I was flying below 20m or not . This was meant for me and I can't take responsibility of anyone else .

For everybody else , please contact your lawyers and follow their advice .

@devangflyer
Sir,
This is potentially a serious issue.
If you have obtained a formal legal opinion from a lawyer, please share it for our benefit.
If what you have is merely a friendly (as opposed to legal) opinion, kindly refrain from posting in public, as it could be misunderstood and misinterpretted.
Regards.

While I agree to DGCA's concerns and there have been irresponsible endeavors, I do not concur with:

DGCA is in the process of formulating the regulations (and globally harmonize
those) for certification & operation for use of UAS in the Indian Civil Airspace. Till such
regulations are issued, no non government agency, organization, or an individual will
launch a UAS in Indian Civil Airspace for any purpose whatsoever.


1. The hobby has been here for a while, haven't such warnings come up earlier? has anything come out of post-discussion, or have there been any discussion for real?

2. "Till". What do you guys think, how long will the "till" last?

My dad has been living here for almost a year now , although I am new here , I trust his new lawyer's advice , and I'm sure his opinion was a legal one . But still because i am new in Pune , that's why I'm saying that everyone should ask their own lawyer .

Obviously till the FAA decides!

I agree that DGCA's notice is over the top.
But, rightly or wrongly, if aeromodelling is banned, will you fly?

Got to take it up with the DGCA, man. No point just cribbing. We need to organise.

That's why i emailed DGCA. If there is no reply, at least we can say we asked, and in the absence of a reply, we presume it is legal to fly RC!

This is exactly What I was saying in the Drones thread. Quote " I am saying first AD and AF civil aviation need to upgrade their capability to track these insignificant objects in sky in their Radar before even thinking of managing them let alone controlling them. Before that capability to track with AD, AF and civil aviation all the talk of clearances and bureaucracy are logically only leading towards total BAN. That's the reason I have compared birds to FPV flying apart from equivalent wingspans. When system don't have the capability to BAN the live birds They think about banning RC guys."  Where there are Trillion natural flying living objects already exist in sky which you cannot track or legislate, can do nothing about it and you are flying among them with no choice. but you want to legislate few RC flying guys. I would say this is nothing more than bureaucracy from someone who wants to hold on to the turf dearly.

With all the means of tracking available with Aviation Authorities like DGCA they can't even manage whats already existing in skies which is very much in their radar. They themselves are the biggest risk to the safety of the passengers.  we have had cases of commercial airlines going missing altogether in-spite of fact that its being tracked by three different means, mid air collision of commercial airlines. We had cases of Commercial airlines used as missiles. Commercial airlines shot down by un-established claimed extremism. Enough life is lost because of poor capability of aviation authorities which needs to pull up its act in its domain first.

We will have million more UAS of few big players which will take to sky in near future. But we will continue to facilitate the few by this continued bureaucracy. Toughest bureaucratic Game play of the Century for hold of the most promising & upcoming technology and to hold on to the turf dearly and eliminate all competitions by the few big players.  For all the rubbish which is being trolled in the name of security for the past two years and media hype we have yet to come across a single case of an accident caused by an UAS of any country, govt or hobbyist in any airspace of any country.

In the US where the genesis of this entire Drama came about from FAA, the AMA of US and model aviation community as a whole stands united against the notices and are fighting against it. Here in India the major governing member body of model aviation AMAI should stand united at this crucial juncture. This is the time we all need to be united and address this as a responsible community .

I am just quoting my dear friends Parambir Singh's exact words here and his sentiments.

Quote " :sleepy: :sleepy: Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnn.... Shit. What is this? Gentlemen, united we stand and divided we fall. DGCA seems to aim at creating in-fighting amongst us and they seem to have succeeded to some extent. Like all such orders right from lane driving, helmet blah blah this too will mature eventually. Till such time it is our responsibility to ensure safety and "longevity" of the hobby by playing it safe and please don't go bump into any passenger airline in the mean time!!!"

So gentlemen fly safe and away from civilization and habitation don't go bumping into anybody for that matter. I am more worried about damage to my model in the process ;D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10698454_10201974122628342_2525061486016172797_n.jpg?oh=e4f0448b66c3b56a5f11db9b5067ebe8&oe=54CAF1F4&__gda__=1425318049_55bf2a1a3231322016c6f2a9ca0de280)

And make friends with cops who turn up to watch! That's what we do. (Give them some dual if you can)

I'am going to fly tomorrow anyway , if someone shows up (which i highly doubt) the good old '100 ka note' will do the trick

Please don't waste 100 ka pathi.  Find an alternative spot Sir.

dear guys

could u confirm this  . and any updates other forum members have??

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/the-dgca-strikes-back/ (http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/the-dgca-strikes-back/)

mods .please merge topic.

pizza joker did it all. and all those aerial fimlming jokers who bought phantoms and started flying out of the box. they have no knowledge of basic aeromodelling or security measures that are necessary.

Rightly said sujith...
Phantom guys made this situation..
Flying all over without any basic knowledge...
Coz of that I strucked with my new octo build.. ;D
F****d :-X

The field that i fly from is 10 meters from my home

hi,

as per the notice it looks like only uav operators are to stop from flying.( model aircrafts using high end electronics/gps and autopilot ) which i think very few agencies doing this.

we are small rc community and all use low watt radios having range of 1km. we fly our models within visual range and also away from human habitats and airports.  if we continue to follow our own safety regulations and make sure models do not fall in wrong hands when out of control. there will be no issues.

request all fpv users to keep models low and close not fly out of LOS. very important. here in pune we have private helicopters flying at low height and over entire city all day.

i am sure every senior modelers is taking every step and safety measure when flying, its only the newcomers who do not have the knwledge and need to fly under guidance.

guys one wrong move now and it will be a very bad for this hobby and to get it back will almost take us another generation. so pray that all sensible flyers and new comers take this seriously and ensure that no untoward accident happen.

I am only worried about the so many photgraphers who have got phantoms and flying in public places to make money.

regds

as said.. those chimps did it all who got no knowledge of flying machines..  and the notice said UAS.. which includes aero models..

RTi requesting definition of UAV/uas should help. And it's the pizza and Amazon idiots who got this to us with the flank help of phantom fliers.

Gusty sir,
Vijendra Nagar is still president Of AMA.

Hey laxman.

Any updates to amai from dgca on this??

Let us know anything amai is doing on this issue.

sure,
we will discuss with our members & professionals. & will update soon

regards
laxman

Now it has been 27 hours since my first post, and I have observed with amusement and sometimes concern the volley of comments on this.

But really guys, before this announcement, what was the legal standing of the Aeromodelling (and other RC) Hobby?

There was never any clear guideline!! Or Rules!! Or Laws!! The only applicable law was the Wireless one. But as to actual flying, racing or sailing? Nothing really.

Let's talk about Flying only. A Flyer could be deemed performing an illegal activity under a host of laws, each interpreted to suit convenience. eg he could be said to be causing public nuisance, creating lethal hazards for general public, deploying a remote-controlled weapon......

In short, we are open to harassment from a law enforcer.

This Hobby was basically under wraps; get kicked out from one field, go to another. In the Metro cities, public  fields are in acute shortage, and inevitably have to be shared with other sport and pastime.

So, maybe this could prove a blessing in disguise.

Hopefully there will be clear laws on this, and from an area of grey shadow, the Hobby will have a recognized existence. Right now we have AMAI, maybe a couple other bodies, with some ridiculous affiliation to Aero Club of India (honestly, yaar.... :giggle: :giggle:) and no real authority.

Maybe what eventually evolves will be a real change, the Hobby will have a clearly defined set of rules, and it could seriously grow the way it has in other countries. Which will be highly beficial.

So, let us wait and watch. In the meanwhile let us continue to break laws as we have been doing for so long  :)

i like it  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"continue to break laws as we have been doing for so long  "

thats the starting piont and trouble is growing
"phantoms and flying in public places to make money."

I went flying today anyways.. Hehe

Here is where it started from...

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/others/Police-ban-Drones-from-city-skies/articleshow/41661016.cms (http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/others/Police-ban-Drones-from-city-skies/articleshow/41661016.cms)

from the article..
According to senior Directorate General of Civil Aviation official, the pizza-delivery experiment induced the agency to seek an opinion from its Mumbai office on regulatory guidelines regarding drones.


....Then a few months down the line the notice comes.

I am thinking like dgca... if it ever happens, then I can launch my own satellite.. :giggle: Nice troll sir ;D

True!!!
Of these days no one knew if its legal or not.
maybe out of all these drama comes the result to regulate this hobby and we will have some sort of GO of what is legal and what is not.
and we can go flying with good understanding. Lets hope for the best.

Ashok.P

As being owner of LHS supplying parts to build multirotors. If this news is true (i mean followed) we would be at huge loss. We are not selling illegal items.

Second, if we all flyers be responsible.
1. Flying in open space away from residential place and such area where there are less chance of crowd.
2. And be RESPONSIBLE
3. Never loose sight of your aircraft, always fly in LoS.
4. And if possible try to fly in group.

You would be safe and cause no problem.

Satya ji its not  us hobby flyers its photographers buying phantoms and flying without proper knowledge and experience
I have seen them flying just a feet above crowd at events
At high speeds almost crashing into the stage or peoples face

First of all they would not be flying at an event without permission. So if they are flying with permission and in such a manner then organizers are at fault.

And i really dont care about such flyers cos if they are responsible and care about this community then they would definitely take care about how they are flying.

The fact that they are talking of regulation means the activity has far higher traction now than earlier.
So in the long term regulation might actually be good , there will rules that make the whole thing legal not a grey area activity .Like WPC type approvals for radios that we started with a couple of year back has actually resulted in legal imports of Radios .
Can some one point me to whom to approach regarding the regulations I volunteer to devote some time to engage with them from the Industry & enthusiast perspective to see that our concerns are heard and addressed  . 
Sai

Good initiative Sai

The DG himself of the Civil Aviation Department, and the Aviation Minister both are the decision makers here I should think

That is what is apparent from the letter , Sanjay being in NCR could some of you there dig around a bit and find out the email ID of the official and then we could  write a mail something like :
" The initiative of regulating UAV is great and positive from the National Perspective blah blah blah ................   being an active group involved in this at various levels from hobby to business etc we would like to be involved in the process of framing regulations  blah blah blah ..........."

I am sure you get the gist of what I am trying to say and when we get an appointment a few of us from various walks of life involved in this could get down to Delhi and meet up with them etc etc etc .

What say ?
Sai 

Let me check, Sai. The addresses emails etc. will be on the web

dgca@hub.nic.in

dgoffice@dgca.nic.in - for feedback

complete list of officials

http://dgca.nic.in/dgca/dir-ind.htm (http://dgca.nic.in/dgca/dir-ind.htm)

As on the website

Okay so whats the update?
I would be willing to come to delhi or wherever necessary to increase the numbers.

We can also draft up "Memorandum Of Demands" from our community, get it signed by members and submit it to the necessary depts in person.

I believe this is our chance to suggest/make our demands and necessary amendments, so that we can have proper rules and regulations with barrier to entry being minimum to the hobby.

Great efforts guys

Hi all members,
I emailed DGCA on 11th itself, but no response so far.
Have an idea.
Why not go to the local police station, tell them your ID and address, and that you fly RC Models on sundays at such and such a site. Invite them to come and see.
Security issue is therefore taken care of.

It's better not to hype this topic so much. The authority will just follow the FAA . And FAA is itself confused on how to regulate UAVs. So no point getting hopes so high. If anyone questions, carry a set of UAV pictures and show them what UAVs are. People on usa are having problems explaining to the government . I doubt it's going to be different here. No point involving police and all for anything other than Rc meets/functions. I doubt much people even heard of the notice. But just a few planned strategic moves instead of a stampede is good.

Maybe best policy is to keep mouth shut and carry on regardless.
Not a good solution, but probably the most workable one in our India.

Well said sir, Works most of the time very well. asking permission to fly is like asking for trouble. we electric people can just say that its a toy and we make it for college as a project. and the cops here has more problem to deal with than a thermocole plane flying in a lonely ground on a Sunday afternoon.

P.S: everything was fine until people stopped looking this as a hobby and the views changed more into money making. and its us Sunday flyer who pay the price.!!!

Ashok.P

posting ones flying activites,, here,, is it a good idea ? if thing go south could this information be used against you ? 

Just thinking aloud,,

anybody !! any thoughts  ??

Gusty sir, in that case this whole forum is substantial and incriminating evidence against all of us. Plus FB too  :giggle:

Neatly summarized the mind set prevailing. its no different here too.

http://www.suasnews.com/2014/10/31872/u-s-uas-airspace-integration-stumbling-blocks/ (http://www.suasnews.com/2014/10/31872/u-s-uas-airspace-integration-stumbling-blocks/)

1. Empirical knowledge has taken a backseat to self-aggrandizing.

2. FAA is not using the scientific method

3. Manned interests “feelings” (AOPA, ALPA, HAI)

4. DOD vendors pushing their products and agenda.

5. Not cooperating with the European airspace integration effort

6. Not recognizing the rest of the world’s work (as the FAA mantra has always been the U.S. is leading the way.)

7. Domestic advocacy groups will not work with European groups. In spite of the fact, the European groups are years ahead of them.

8. Domestic advocacy groups don’t have the community in mind. Executive committees call the shots, and the members appear to come up short.

9. No one hold the FAA accountable for the dysfunction

10. The community believes someone else is acting in their best interest.

11. The notion that common sense will prevail in FAA rulemaking.

12. Private “public” rulemaking process.

13. The notion that it is all about safety

*If the DOD vendors don’t want you on the UAS ARC, you don’t get on the UAS ARC. If they don’t like what you write in the standards groups, they rewrite it. If you don’t like what they write they dismiss it. I know, I’ve been through it. Anyone (folks with scruples) who doesn’t go along with the disenfranchisement program (advocates for small business and the public) is marginalized.

I feel FAA or america in general has to come out of their big brother attitude and accept the world's standards, like stop being AWG instead of SWG, Miles for KM's, etc. Maybe then the european airspace newest proposal for the air traffic management like, to reduce the vertical seperation [correct if I am wrong, as that was the agenda of discussion/program on the discovery channel that I viewed some time ago] is kind of acceptable as the avionics/electronics are far more than capable to handle such things [atleast that is in the proposal, agian if i am not wrong here of i learnt].

For manned aircrafts being at threat from the uav/uas, lets an another view at keeping at safe. Say what if the manned aircraft hits an uav/uas and the uas/uav looses its airworthiness and kills or hurts and comes anywhere near to this threat at the ground level or anywhere during the crash sequence. Is it that only the people who are considered [super]humans who deserve a better life than the humble ground dwellers? or is it like only the manned air borne people the ultimate living beings? or is it that much of a threat of an humble aeromodel/hobby craft doing a few feet [maybe a couple of hundred of feet] that is not considered good enough? adding to the least the advancement of the hobby science, probably being the source of inspiration for uav/uas as we key in today.

I am not against the safety aspect, but very much want to comply more than it asks far. But at the cost of killing some good thing in the name of regulations to help a few establishments who can kind of make a killing, at least we can expect/imagine by the things are moving forward.. thanks to the internet/infotech, the things are more and transparent and clearer for even the remotely located thinker who would have not been known otherwise ever in his lifetime. lets see how it will proceed and keep our motto clear and crisp to defend ourselves for such threats, again if any! I believe, DGCa is/was/might kind of under pressure to put out the doc that is worrying the most of us, but it has not really pin pointed our hobby as the direct threat, but a directive of the authoritative figure they have and also to keep any future announcements of some very ambitious org's who want to make it commercial, without contacting/complying the concerned regulators. we all know and discussed, who what why when and how 'they' started it all. Let us not alienate ourselves from them, by speaking against them without knowing their real interests behind the release doc. Again, this is just my point of view, not a commandment as of any sort :giggle:

The model can easily get sucked into the jet's air intake. Not being flesh & blood like a bird, but having metal parts, it sure will be a major problem.

Frankly, the only practical way of really enforcing rules:

Have designated fields
Have licensing system (like BMFA's A & B certificate) Until a flier has an A Certificate, he cannot fly alone
And, here's where many will want to slay me - ban drones, multirotors and all GPS assisted models  >:D

Such specific rules which need model inspections etc is going to be out of governments interests.

In the US .Im not sure but commercial airspace starts at 400feet apart from airport airspaces. Many full scale fliers cry about it but it's a wise thing and best easy way to regulate airspace between hobby models etc and manned. dgca may not have even thought of rcplanes in their notice but only of multis. And as for UAVs God himself would be confused on how to regulate it. UAV is a very very wide term.

Safety !! esp flying within airfd zone is perfectly alright !!

but i go with what sandy has flagged, DOD and wannabe DOD companies have instigated this coz , hobby FPV fliers are doing (a) Better than them (b) 1000 times cheaper than them

All they have to do is raise the question of safety and stop hobby FPV fliers, in that wake they, i dont think can stop Within visual range' hobby fliers

Free sprit will find a place and way to fly

IMHO

Even if its banned, how is it going to be checked and implemented?
How is the easy availability of the products(locally/internationally) going to be checked?
Infact how is the current 'ban' being implemented  ???

Instead of banning, requiring amateur radio licenses to operate GPS assisted models would be better(along with the model flying licenses/dedicated flying air space you mentioned). Many unallocated frequencies such as the 900mhz,434mhz and 1200mhz too I guess is being used by flyers for flying Autopilot Systems which comes under amateur ratio category(except 900mhz) so it would be logical too.

Im least worried about flying in sight or out of sight being banned, because as he ^^ said
Instead I see this as an opportunity here for us to get involved in the decision making process so that we can have favorable rules for the hobby. Silence/apathy is only going to make it harder for everyone, its just a matter of time on how and when someone is going to be hassled as if the customs/wpc and high priced resale/non availability and long delivery times werent enough.

I expected AMAI to be in the forefront of this issue, and I hope they are doing something in the background :(

The hyped up claims of Drone delivery being nothing but a big farce in the backdrop of existing scenario of total absence of  i.e. without capability of cloud computing and collective autonomous proximity awareness among the wide spectrum of operators and delivery platforms operating strictly in predesignated safe corridors of Civil UAS flying. Not withstanding the same the ambitious ill prepared fool hardy claims of few like Amazon and the recent unfavorable verdicts of judiciary quoted under in the scenario of total absence of any legislation's in this area may have instigated the issue of such blanket ban advisory riders by the aviation authorities which may not at all have the hobby RC fliers in their spectrum of observation.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/commercial-drones-are-completely-legal-a-federal-judge-ruled (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/commercial-drones-are-completely-legal-a-federal-judge-ruled)
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-is-trying-to-erase-the-1981-document-that-legalized-hobby-drones?trk_source=recommended (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-is-trying-to-erase-the-1981-document-that-legalized-hobby-drones?trk_source=recommended)
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/is-the-faa-purposefully-trying-to-confuse-everyone-about-its-drone-rules?trk_source=recommended (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/is-the-faa-purposefully-trying-to-confuse-everyone-about-its-drone-rules?trk_source=recommended)

Today's news 16 Oct 2014 Prosecutors drop charges against drone hobbyists
http://www.suasnews.com/ (http://www.suasnews.com/)

Nevertheless the manned aviation industry stands to loose in billions in this area which had been it's forte till now due to the development of unmanned technology in field of Aerial photography, video-graphy, Geo survey, Aerial Photo-mapping applications, GIS Services, Photogrammetry, DEM/DTM Generation, Topographic Mapping, Orthophotomosaic Imagery. Since development of software has been tremendous in these areas of application and we have been solely dependent on manned aviation capabilities and satellite imageries for all these years for such applications. Boom in civil application of unmanned operation in these areas is going to be exponential.  

Manned aviation Industries is bound to be reduced merely to a passenger carrier service if not unmanned passenger carrier service, if the development in this field is not kept at check. Future of Aviation ( Not only Combat aviation) is unmanned.

Present development around the world is merely the vested interest of a few who want to cash in on the development of upcoming Billion Dollar industry at play and to be part of the loop.

I think first aviation authorities need to pull up its own socks in the areas of its current domain before trying to get any more which it cannot manage into it or it should have a more broader outlook in this aspect if it really wants to be of any significance.

To really think that a real hacker is going to be shit scared of any of the legislation's of cyber police authorities is like being an ostrich with head in the sand.

Absolutely.. A Free spirit will always find a place and way to fly.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J3GCIAQOZ4E/VEDtUjkWC_I/AAAAAAAACM8/n5pwlxR18ec/w760-h553-no/DGCA.jpg)

"" The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) admits it has no rules and regulations in place for controlling the manufacture, sale, purchase and most importantly, the flight, of drones.

"We do not have any regulations in place or guidelines to adhere to for people who want to fly drones or UAVs as a hobby," said Charan Das, the deputy director, DGCA (Airworthiness). "The ones used by the military are controlled by the military. Flying drones in public spaces is an issue in the domain of police and local administration. The police should be looking after it and not the DGCA. "

Your questions answered-The 400 foot limit for model aircraft.

In the interview with Deputy Director John McGraw, Mr. McGraw seemed to have very little to say about the aeromodeling exemption in the FAA reauthorization bill. He also made a worrisome comment about a 400 foot limit for models.

Rich Hanson, leader of the AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs:

There are a lot of unanswered question as to how the MA provisions in the reauthorization bill will be enacted, and we are still very much in the early stages of working through these issues. Shortly after President Obama signed the Bill we presented our position to the Unmanned Aircraft Program Office. The UAPO responded by advising they are waiting for clarification from FAA’s legal staff. It is clear to us that this Act reflects the view that aeromodeling is a relatively harmless activity and expresses Congress’ recognition of the level of safety the community has achieved through voluntary compliance with a community-based set of safety guidelines. As we move forward we will seek a viable means of enacting this legislative provision and establishing a mutually agreed upon set of criteria to ensure the continued safe operation of model aircraft in the national airspace.

Mr. McGraw’s mention of a 400’ ceiling is somewhat of a carryover from the guidelines established in AC 91-57 and has been FAA’s premise in terms of separating small UAS from the manned aircraft environment. During the crafting of the language in the MA amendment to the reauthorization bill the inclusion of a 400’ criteria was considered. However, AMA resisted this limitation with the belief that it is overreaching, unnecessary and potentially detrimental to the hobby. Ultimately the congressional leadership agreed with the AMA and elected not to include this restriction as part of the minimum safety criteria stated in the Bill.

AMA’s 75 years of experience tells us that MA operations above 400’ pose little to no risk to the manned aircraft community. The only time this activity is of concern is when model aircraft are operated in close proximity to airports. As such, AMA stands by its 3mi/400’ safety criteria established in the AMA National Safety Code. Though there are other mitigation measures that may need to be considered, AMA will continue to advocate to maintain the aeromodeling community’s access to the national airspace.

Http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2012/03/08/your-questions-answered-the-400-foot-limit-for-model-aircraft/ (http://Http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2012/03/08/your-questions-answered-the-400-foot-limit-for-model-aircraft/)

By Antonio Antenucci and Rebecca Rosenberg

Manhattan prosecutors Wednesday dismissed charges against two hobbyists who were busted last July for flying their drones too close to an NYPD helicopter near the George Washington Bridge.

The felony reckless endangerment raps against Wilkins Mendoza, 34, and Remy Castro, 23, were dropped because they couldn’t prove the case without a reasonable doubt, prosecutors said.

Castro still faces federal charges for the incident, said Assistant District Attorney Nabilah Hossain.

“The FAA has filed federal charges against the defendant,” she said. “The case would be more properly handled by them.”

Castro’s attorney Michael Kushner said the federal charges were purely administrative.

“It’s an FAA proceeding to determine whether or not air space was violated based upon the officer’s statements that it was,” he explained. “We commend the DA’s office for actually taking the affirmative steps to dismiss the case.”

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/prosecutors-drop-charges-against-drone-hobbyists/ (http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/prosecutors-drop-charges-against-drone-hobbyists/)

I would say this is a cse of inept prosecution, and a travesty of justice. This was a nasty accident waiting to happen

Though this was the failed case of NYPD helicopter actually chasing a hobbyist drone, proved to be true from the video evidence from the drone recordings and voice recordings of heli pilots which failed miserably to prove the alleged charges of drone endangering the heli by heading on a collision course reclessly as charged other way around and did not stand ground in court of law.

Yes such ambiguity in understandings and accidents waiting to happen could have been avoided if not for the mental leathargy of authorities to accept the advancements and frame suitable guidlines and frameworks for mutual coexistance and operation in all these years.

Sir by passing a superficial advisory at this juncture to ban all activity may make you and me think twice before launching or models in air but if authorities think its going stop Osama bin Laden from flying one more plane laden with explosives on to a stratigically important building then they are living in fools paradise.

Perhaps 'Skull & Crossbones' and 'DANGER' stickers
Compulsory for all models.
Like on cigarette packets...
May reduce the number of flyers as much as it has reduced the number of smokers...

Rolf reduced the number if smokers......

Sandy sir, any RC flyin model used by terrorists - the worst nightmare possible

Dude Chintal, this is not acceptable you mis-using the abbreviations everytime.. this time it is 'Rolf' instead of rofl, and before it was lmoa or something like that instead of lmao.. i almost ended up twice to about to google them, but realised the typos... hehe.. [PS: the above/before scripture has to be taken light heartedly.. 'nothing serious about it' :giggle:] btw, i second your point... Iyer sir, seriously they have? I have my smoking friends who do not care even if you present them with real rotting skull and bones of dead humans.. that bad they are when they need a smoke.. addicted. period.

And coming back to the topic, again my personal view and opinion.. If we[dgca, faa, technologists, hobbyists, etc] cannot accept advancement of the new technologies, then as you guys are fearing, the evil minded folks will take them in and will keep us on a constant fearful run.. so let the rc/drones develop as it has happened or else, face the evil music.. I am stressing again, safety is foremost and will never be compromised by the hobbyists nor any users ,regardless of commercial interests, hobby interests or whatever sane purposes. But a valid authorising/licensing body is needed, minus any possible associated politics that may jump in with it. In the early years of infotech boom, many feared about going jobless, but what has happened now? jobless or jobs with less folk's to occupied? If people cannot move on accepting new tech, or any advancement of humankind, will be left behind and laughed at. Better get the a$$ up and move with time. In that case, I personally do not like the way my city, Bangalore/Bengaluru has progressed on, but thinking in another perspective it is quite acceptable by a larger interests and progression. It is like making peace with oneself and accommodate others like they like to be treated alike.

Did notice late Sanjay Sir.  >:D >:D >:D The erstwhile Yawning Tiger seems to have been woken up now and its menacing showing off its teeth and claws. We seem to be missing what caused this rude awakening.   :giggle: :giggle: :giggle:

This, Sandy sir, is the new incarnation so as to tackle all the villainy afoot in these troubled times  :rofl:

 ;D ;D :hatsoff:

Yada yada  hi dharmasya, and all that.... :D :D :rofl: :rofl:

We will all now quietly line up behind you sir.  :D :D  ;)

Just a  thought : given there is now law as admitted by DGCA in this article (http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/concern-over-unregulated-use-of-drones (http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/concern-over-unregulated-use-of-drones)  ) wonder under what law can the individual be charged of violating

I hope dgca does not tell the police we have banned them from our side , u all are free to decide ur actions.
I am still wondering what was the notice for.  

We can't regulate such minute things like Rc apart from the rf side. There are bigger issues and better ways to waste time. Not possible only.

188. Disobedience to order duly promulgated by public servant.
419. Punishment for cheating by personation.
420. Cheating and dishonestly inducing delivery of property.

Cant understand why 419 & 420. I guess it completely depends on the Police, as to which IPC section to use.

Which sections to use depends on the officers mood

Pune aero modellers are already affected by the dgca order past 3yrs. a paragliding accident in gliding center was due to operator error and paragliding was  illegally operated there.

dgca banned all aero sports activity at gliding center and till today they don't have any liking for the sport as they are mainly looking into commercial planes.

aero club of India was formed to take care of aero sports activities. but like AMA they too got involved in internal politics.
I have written letters to dgca and many ministers. but no answers.
once Pune had 100 flyers, today we are a few left the others sold off and stopped coming.
this is a never ending story and dcga will never get involved.
myself used to operate at gliding center full time. today there is no scope for aero modeling in pune due to lack of field. I am on the verge of selling all stuff and look for a job.
future of aero modeling in India looks very bad if the. Delhi babus keep playing around.
my past experience put over.

just wanted to give a very good example. take the current election campaign. not one good political party deserve to be out there.
but still they get elected and once again they play with the people of india showing great dreams. with such scenario happening all over again and again what future can we predict for our hobby which is still not being considered as a sport and instead taken as a security  threat.
in our country 100s die in road accident, inspite of rules and regulations set by regional transport office. licences are given after crazy tests. no one talks of discipline in traffic or controlling vehicle population.
we are certainly going in the wrong direction. if not controlled today, tomorrow will be very bad for new generation.
I can't imagine what scene it will be after next 5 years but at the pace we are developing. I'd rather move to a village far off which will be cleaner, greener and pollution free. rather than die here with much great pain.

What i cannot understand 'the rant' the top officials, when they can sit across a table on one fine day settle down the points on paper and make a proposal from an administrative point of view. They are the best in their profession and definitely not amateur in the field of air traffic, and should stop to pass the ball out of their court to another to be pushed out from theirs.

It is really sad to know some serious cases booked  to the folks filming the Ganga aarati event, not a private affair right?! IPC 420, seriously!? So if somebody can film without the use of drone is legal then? It is some serious targeting by some a few with commercial interests and not for the larger public! Parrot AR going to deliver threats for public.. 50km range, 80kmph, night-vision camera, cheaper [35k+] to buy and operate, live HD video feed, etc.. if this is done as easy as it is said, then maybe the reporter/writer should invest and report it from a first hand experience than just jot down about topic that takes years, hundreds or even thousands of hours of learning to handle it. As chintal says, it depends on the mood of the investigation officer and his addl income expectancy rather than being fair. Maybe I am expecting too much than what it can be hoped from my 'Incredible India'.

I was watching this video, then thought what if it happened in India :giggle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_O4NI1IAdM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_O4NI1IAdM#ws)

If this happens in india
Next day's head line  drone crashed.........

nope, it will be 'terrorists huge drone found crashing before hitting target' or maybe the trees were the target ;D

I don't think it will be like that. But I remember subhanjan sha who made good news tho kinda stupid. So it's possible either way. We are hyping this topic too much.

to break the seriousness.

 Drones are banned??? where will our honey come from now? :O

I agree with Pravesh, We're hyping this topic too much.

Interesting read

http://www.ambientflight.com/2014/10/20/drone-paranoia/ (http://www.ambientflight.com/2014/10/20/drone-paranoia/)

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
whenever something becomes more popular then govt starts putting taxes on it.
 (:|~ (:|~ (:|~ (:|~

I just heard today from a FM that the DGCA has published new circulars saying that UAV is now permitted, but UAV with "payload" is not. I don't know whether "payload" has been defined.

Is this true? Is there any news that we can now go fly again?

I went to a field near my house today with my helicopter and my son to fly for a bit. A cop came and approached us, and very gently, told us that these things are not allowed -- they are "banned", he said. He was not trying to harass me or extract money -- he just told us to check up on this, and we would realise that he was right. He then went away.

Is this still true or has there been a clarification / partial reversal?

So that means, the circular to the cops have been notified. Maybe you looked too educated and elder to harass. It may not be the same with every cop and flier experience. So add another 3-6 months of hafta period at certain places.  If true that DGCA has explained the payload/uav/aeromodel definition, then it is a relief - else what to say.. applause DGCA?! Until an updated circular release, we will have to do with the chor-police game :giggle: shameful to say the least! :(

Hi Guys,

Just spoke to a friend of mine who is a RC enthusiast and instructor at NCC. It is a cause of concern because of what is happening around the world with Multirotors and FPV equipped Airplanes. A few weeks back a tourist was arrested and fined $3000 in US for crashing his drone in Yellowstone park. A soccer game was interrupted when someone flew a quadcopter with a towed flag inside a stadium. And a few years back, a terrorist was arrested and jailed in US for planning to fly a stuffed RC airplane with explosives and fly it into a target. A few stupid individuals ruining the fun for the rest of us.

He told me to stick to flying clubs if possible. Otherwise, contacting Flying clubs in your respective cities should get you places where you can legally fly your RC Equipment. A payload is either a camera or some sort of remote sensing equipment. Make sure you inform a cop before flying. There are plenty of them roaming around big, open public spaces. Here in Kol, cops are understanding and I haven't had any problems so far.

Plain and simple, cover your ass and act cautious. They can say no or if your are already in flight, stop you ( and if really good ones politely explain you the facts and refer you to proper info ). COMPLETELY AVOID DEFENSE BASES, AIRPORTS and DENSELY CROWDED PLACES.

Have fun flying your babies!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYaWl0wzIo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEYaWl0wzIo)

Best regards,

Quadman

Sandeeps sir, with all your innovative ideas like big corro gasser and all, you deserve a good career in this field. except that people need to think of it in different view.
What if we put these planes and helis/multirotors to everyday use and show the common people that its much more useful than just a toy.
apart from AP, there are may uses for these model planes like these,
http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/UAV/uav_list/yamaha_rmax.html (http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/UAV/uav_list/yamaha_rmax.html)

I was planning to do something like this one day and didnt knew until today that its commercially available already.!!
Hoping that someone in india will come up with a corro plane for crop dusting and show up in news...

Ashok.P

http://www.suasnews.com/2014/10/32006/soon-e-tailers-could-use-drones-to-deliver-your-purchases/ (http://www.suasnews.com/2014/10/32006/soon-e-tailers-could-use-drones-to-deliver-your-purchases/)

by Sharmistha Mukherjee

E-retail giants such as Flipkart and Amazon might soon be able to air-drop your online purchases using unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), with the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) considering notifying regulations for civilian use ofdrones in the next two months.

A senior DGCA official said, “We are examining several issues pertaining to safety for use of UAVs for commercial purposes. We will outline specifications relating to where and how high the UAVs can fly, what flight path these should follow and which areas will be prohibited for such operations. The norms will be readied and notified in the next two months.”

According to media reports, Seattle-based Amazon had considered debuting drone delivery services in Mumbai and Bangalore by Diwali this year, as India currently doesn’t have regulations governing the use of these devices. In the US, companies such as Amazon aren’t allowed to fly drones outdoors for commercial purposes. The International Civil Aviation Organisation is yet to publish standards and recommended practices for certification and operation of UAVs for civilian use.

Earlier this month, the DGCA issued a directive, banning the use of UAVs for civilian applications till official notifications were made in this regard. “UAS (unmanned aircraft systems) have potential for a large number of civil applications. However, there are safety and security issues involved. India has a high density of manned aircraft traffic. Due to lack of regulation, operating procedure and uncertainty of the technology, UAS poses a threat of aerial collisions and accidents,” said the official quoted earlier.

The DGCA is in the process of formulating regulations for certification and civilian operation of UAS in Indian airspace. Till such regulations are issued, the regulator has banned non-governmental agencies, organisations and individuals from launching UAVs in Indian airspace, for any purpose. In fact, civilian operations of UAS will require an approval from the air navigation service provider, the ministries of defence and home affairs, as well as other agencies concerned, besides the DGCA.

Sources in the DGCA said they hadn’t received any formal communication from Amazon to operate UAVs for delivery services yet. In December 2013, Amazon had showcased its Prime Air drone, an octocopter (a drone fitted with eight rotors). The company had said it was developing UAVs weighing less than 25 kg, which could travel at about 80 km/per hour. These drones can carry payloads of up to 2.26 kg (which could address 86 per cent of the products sold on Amazon) and deliver these in less than 30 minutes.

Once the DGCA notifications are in place, UAVs could open up a host of applications for civilians. Amber Dubey, partner and India head (aerospace and defence), KPMG, says, “The useful aspects of civilian drones are well known – agriculture, wildlife conservation, search & rescue, aerial photography, perimeter security; remote monitoring of utilities such as transmission towers, pipelines, highways, railways, etc, tracking of natural disasters and, lately, doorstep delivery of products.”

However, like all technology breakthroughs, drones, too, hold potential risks – intrusive surveillance for unethical practices. Also, battery failure or loss of navigational control over these devices could lead to accidents. “If a simple bird-hit can bring a plane down, imagine the impact of a drone getting into the flight path of a descending aircraft. Given its multifarious applications and damage potential, ownership and operation of drones need to be licensed, as any other aerial vehicle. Its size, capabilities, aerial route and end-use of collected data need to be monitored,” Dubey adds.

Today, UAVs are readily available on online shopping portals such as Flipkart at prices starting at Rs 1,999 (The Flyer’s Bay Intruder) and going up to Rs 43,330 (the Parrot AR Drone 2.0 Power Edition). The portal promises their delivery within 10 days.

In May this year, Mumbai-based pizza chain Francesco Pizzeria attempted to deliver a pizza using drones. The proprietor was, however, issued a notice by the Mumbai police for operating an UAV without the requisite approvals.

In the US, Amazon will be ready to put Prime Air into service as soon as the Federal Aviation Administration, the regulator in that country, puts in place the necessary regulations for operation of UAVs. Customers are likely to be offered an option to choose delivery through UAVs in 2015.

In Europe, individual countries retain the right to regulate drones weighing less than 300 pounds. The European Aviation Safety Agency has jurisdiction over larger models.

DRONING IN, ELSEWHERE

In Australia, commercial use of UAVs requires some easily attainable identification. There are no regulations for model aircraft used for sport, recreation and education

Brazil is a leading player in the use of UAVs. It is using UAVs to patrol borders. There are no direct laws infringing on civilian use of UAVs

In Canada, it is relatively easy to get permits for individually-owned model aircraft weighing less than 77.2 pounds, provided these are not used for profit-making. If these UAVs come with a small camera or if drones do not meet the above three conditions, the required specifications for operational permits are much tougher

Europe European Aviation Safety Agency grants certificates on a case-by-case basis, a lengthy process. Requests proposing flights in unpopulated areas have the best success rate

In the UK, small, unmanned aerial vehicles weighing up to 20 kg can easily secure permits. But there are restrictions on where and how high these are allowed to fly. Permits to fly in rural areas are more acceptable. Anything heavier or used for aerial photography require ‘permits to carry out aerial work’

http://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/soon-e-tailers-could-use-drones-to-deliver-your-purchases-114102101507_1.html (http://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/soon-e-tailers-could-use-drones-to-deliver-your-purchases-114102101507_1.html)

Good on Amazon. Hopefully they will do the dirty work for us  ;D

This is India: if an Octacopter comes for delivery, the customer will steal and keep the octacopter  :giggle: :giggle:

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You have made my day Sanjay Sir. Nice idea I am opening a new thread on how to design your own Delivery Drone Hunter/Catcher Net Shooters/ Net Deploying Drones .  :rofl: :rofl:

Some more ways- Blanket. Bedsheet . Fishing nets. 1.5g jam,  football kick. Cowboy rope. But I'm thinking they will airdrop or wire drop. As landing means rewriting a lot. And possible loss of data connection and LOS.

Contrary - Amazon and pizzawala from Mumbai caused the ban, Payload is the term. we have terror issues.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/aerial-robots/faa-faces-legal-action-on-its-rules-for-model-aircraft (http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/aerial-robots/faa-faces-legal-action-on-its-rules-for-model-aircraft)

FAA Faces Legal Action on Its Rules for Model Aircraft

On 23 June, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) published its interpretation of the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft,” which disgruntled quite of few people with an interest in flying model planes and helicopters. Many of those upset left critical feedback on the FAA’s website, but last week three groups went further and formally took legal action.

One of organizations to file suit is the Academy of Model Aeronautics, a not-for-profit group made up of some 170,000 modelers throughout the United States. In a filing made on 22 August, the AMA asserts that the FAA’s Special Rule contradicts the intent of Congress when it passed the FAA Modernization and Reform Act in 2012, part of which states: “[T]he Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if . . . the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization.”

The AMA points out that the FAA’s interpretation of the rules, which constrains modelers in many ways, including a prohibition on flying models for purposes that are in any fashion connected with a business, “threatens the very existence of the hobby, as well as AMA as an organization.” That’s because the FAA doesn’t allow manufacturers to fly their models as they develop and test them. Nor would it allow modelers to accept cash payment for winning competitions. Come to think of it, the FAA probably wouldn’t allow paid AMA officers to fly models themselves. No wonder they are upset.

A second group to file suit last week was made up of four businesses with a commercial interest in model aircraft: the UAS America Fund, SkyPan International, Peter Sachs (doing business as the Drone Pilots Association), and FPV Manuals (doing business as GetFPV and Lumenier).

The members of this group assert that the FAA’s prohibition on their non-hobby activities “is arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with law, in excess of statutory jurisdiction, authority, or limitations, and without observance of procedure required by law.” Their filing points out that the current position of the FAA prevents, for example, a retailer of equipment used for flying models from testing the equipment out, which in turn makes it very difficult to decide what gear to sell or which devices will best support customers with technical issues.

The third group to take legal action last week was the Council on Governmental Relations, an association of university researchers. The Council’s filing asserts that the FAA’s rule “poses a grave threat to science, research, education, and technological innovation across the United States by purporting to regulate, restrict, or even completely prohibit, use of model aircraft technology by universities, colleges, and research institutions, their faculty, and their students.” The objection here is basically the same one a group of educators voiced to the FAA last month.

Anthony Decrappeo, president of the Council on Governmental Relations, explains that the organization doesn’t typically resort to legal action. “Usually, it’s not necessary,” he says. “But I have to rely on what the legal counsel is telling me.” In this case that would be Brendan Schulman, special counsel with the New York City law firm Kramer, Levin, Naftalis & Frankel.

“In part, there is a process issue here,” says Schulman, referring to the way the FAA has been issuing rules about model aircraft without first making a formal Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, as required for a federal agency by the Administrative Procedure Act. But Schulman also thinks that the FAA needs to base its rules regarding what is and what isn’t safe on something other than whether the activity has a commercial component.

Presumably, the FAA will do that when it issues its much-awaited regulations for small unmanned aerial systems (sUAS). According to Schulman, the FAA’s interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft was meant to tell those who would use models for commercial purposes that “until we have something in place, you shouldn’t do anything at all.”

Quote from Sundaram sir's post above:
... the FAA’s interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft was meant to tell those who would use models for commercial purposes that “until we have something in place, you shouldn’t do anything at all.”

Quote from DGCA's circular:
"Till such regulations are issued, no non governmental agency, organisation, or an individual will launch a UAS in Indian Civil Airspace for any purpose whatsoever"

Guess that leaves out only birds...

Interesting development... the question is, whether 2 months is enough to start with a new system :D That too in India? If yes, and done in the way it has to be done then.. :thumbsup:

Its not the dgca its flipkart and amazon that will complete the task in two months
I hope so
And i m glad to read this

Happy independence flying to all (coming soon)...

As far as safety is concerned, over the years I know here in India there are many people who do flower dropping with heli  over people crowed places. I think this is very dangerous act... I personally dont fly helis but this is something I do not support, Safety comes first. But I do not agree with all rules mentioned in our country.. they say only 27 Mhz is allowed here in India.. a custom officer was arguing with me last year at Mumbai airport..  ;D

Well then what about walki talki ,
Bluetooth ,
Cordless cell phones ,
Certain remotes ,
Wifi
Laptops
Tablets
Cellphone
Using 2.4ghz .....? Plz ask him  next time he argues with you

ya thats true my many friends doing flower dropping via 50,90 and 26 cc jr heli

@Chintal, those mentioned by you either operate on low power mode and has very short usable range(less than 10 meters) or they are licensed to operate on those frequencies.

we cannot take them as an example to them.

Ashok.P

@ v2 eagle, you are right in licensed bands and low power(short range) devices but not limited to 10 mts, our wifi devices are usually 35 to 150 mts range(tx power 20dBm is 100mW output)

I would say "safety first" means risking someones life using rc equipment must be banned.. those who try n break rules.. or want to make their own rules must stopped. Remember this will only make other modellers suffer... this has happened in the past.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/is-the-faa-purposefully-trying-to-confuse-everyone-about-its-drone-rules?trk_source=recommended (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/is-the-faa-purposefully-trying-to-confuse-everyone-about-its-drone-rules?trk_source=recommended)

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/in-canada-simpler-rules-for-small-unmanned-air-vehicles

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJ3SblqOFA (http://)

Yep, saw that video today. A good explanation, but how much does the folks with the tie's going to nod 'agree' is the question!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf0wbuP_-6A (http://)

who will make DGCA to watch this video :P
Lets send an RTI asking has DGCA watched this video :D

www.youtube.com/watch?v=13C_gs4a3Tw (http://)


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2WMpl3wcf8 (http://)

Bad news
http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/24/7274919/the-faas-upcoming-small-drone-rules-could-be-brutally-restrictive

Drone pilot wanted: Starting salary $100,000  :)
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/25/news/drone-pilot-degree/index.html?sr=fbmoney112514dronejobs0330story (http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/25/news/drone-pilot-degree/index.html?sr=fbmoney112514dronejobs0330story)

DRONES STRIKE BACK

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp7mM2TP_1A (http://)

The Good thing about US is , there could be jack ass bodies like FAA, but then the people are TOTALLY empowered to screww FAA happiness. Best part - the Judges are not still outwardly Sold out!!
I was happy that the Jury gave a verdict in favor of Team Black sheep owner and thumbed downed FAA's $10000 fine.

Can we imagine that in India ?? With Phony bodies like AMAI not uttering a Word on it ! It is such a petty shame on people with so much hype, and have been known to have reach to law makers.

If hobbyist's in India unite the government will have to back out its just the matter of starting it
We have way more hobbyists and sources (look at the amount of views a simple post on rci gets )

Even the dgca might be reading rcindia.org
Specially this post

Rules/law are created for the betterment of every human being just putting a notice without proper guide lines
Is like asking all the cars in the country to stop driving if it doesn't have a safety feature

Government here dont want to deal with the real situation just putting up a ban wont help them out increase the civil air safety instead proper guidelines and regulations (for eg:- not fly above xyz height, creating no fly zones like near airports )
Will be a win - win situation
We all hobbyists who like to meet up on the weekend and fly stuff will follow them 
Citizens and police will also have knowledge and can stop people not following the given rules will be the best way to avoid any crashes/disaster and keep the hobby alive and enjoyable rather then worry some

Watch now modified the original concept video at Reply # 168. Now you know why govt agencies are all shit scared of drones.  :giggle:

Ha ha!! If Govt were to piss its pants on such ridiculous "Artist Illustration" , they should ask people to commit suicide as Aliens or Asteroids would be coming and destroy us, going by so many movies!!

And I laugh at the moronish Video ... leave Carrier ship shown in the video, or frigate, even a normal "Merchant" Ship carry enough armament to shoot down such BIG and slow moving "Multirotor" . A Carrier ship would destroy it even before coming under Visual Range. It is a shit stupid reason.

While the DGCA diktat definitely comes from the formation of another "Lobby" the UAV lobby being set up by Biggies like MAhindra, Tata etc. They wont like ordinary people like us to demonstrate even 1/10 capable system at 1/1000 of their price.

If this Govt RC or hobby UAV from designated no-population places, this would mean the Govt is curbing people to learn and develop this technology at educational level. While western and even South East Asian/Chinese Colleges doing much better than out Fat ass Govt agencies should be a wake up call for Govt from doing exactly opposite from what DGCA should be doing. While DARPA in US calls for civilians to demonstrate new Tech Demos, our Govts have been totally doing the opposite. This is a Big sham.

Hahaha Don't  take it so seriously  buddy. It's  surely much easier said than done. Just posted the Russian concept video for the pun. The latest developments could also be due to the reason highlighted by you in the last few paras.

Hello All (this is same post on different thread)

We wanted to check the NOTICE with a different angle.

Knowledgeable friends, please help and search meaning of INDIAN CIVIL AIRSPACE.

We are sure my backyard / terrace is not INDIAN CIVIL AIRSPACE.

Another key point of thought is if we are not in INDIAN CIVIL AIRSPACE, why are we worried? Does DGCA hold authority over every inch of space? Of my drawing room too?

ATS airspaces are classified in AIP India ENR 1.4

Regards,

Sphere Hobbies

Just google on airspace classes ( I could only find information from ICAO and FAA, not DGCA). Technically civil airspace means the zone in which instrumented commercial aircraft operate which is usually above 18000 ft.

Not an appropriate example or comparison, IMHO.

Well , what is Indian civil airspace then ???
Is it only the place near airports and other air force or military establishments ? Or do this mean all the skies of India ?

Point noted  edited my post

I just saw this video released by the FAA as part of a 'drone' safety program called Know Before You Fly. The safety points mentioned in the video are reasonable but the FAA uses this to reaffirm its ban on commercial UAS usage. It also supports the belief that all UASs or 'drones' are multirotors. I also have learned that a rabbit can weigh 55 pounds. WOW!  :rofl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF5Q9JvBhxM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF5Q9JvBhxM#ws)

this is in line with the FAA's classification of Model Aircraft, which makes sense that the minimum ceiling for other flying craft including gliders and small planes is 700 feet


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.faa.gov/uas/ (https://www.faa.gov/uas/)
Model Aircraft
Recreational use of airspace by model aircraft is covered by FAA Advisory Circular 91-57 (PDF), which generally limits operations for hobby and recreation to below 400 feet, away from airports and air traffic, and within sight of the operator. In June 2014, the FAA published a Federal Register notice (PDF) on its interpretation of the statutory special rules for model aircraft in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012. The law is clear that the FAA may take enforcement action against model aircraft operators who operate their aircraft in a manner that endangers the safety of the national airspace system. In the notice, the FAA explains that this enforcement authority is designed to protect users of the airspace as well as people and property on the ground. Read the full press release. Read more about Model Aircraft Operations.

Merry Christmas guys.. always follow the rules, the emission control is the uncontrollable  :giggle:


(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/1462981_408948195922693_8515457570551979950_n.jpg?oh=27ca4cacf357b0f4954a8dc74d604a61&oe=553CA683)

Nice one! Love the Emission Control & Defogger  :rofl:

My vote is for the Defroster and the Navigation Equipment. Merry Christmas!

Merry X'mas all

That was good one.

Merry Christmas to all and specially to Gusty, John, zonuna  & beni

I think next they are  going to bann the internet !! They don't bann what should be banned but they through intrude their stupid minds into thing which is supposibly irrelevant!!

Check this video for weired banns in India

The Bottom Line: Weirdest Bans in India: http://youtu.be/42os-Y4XPcQ (http://youtu.be/42os-Y4XPcQ)

Why Don't the government just taking out these rules and just Make all things free of rules like Radio And Specially RC PRODUCTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And As Roshan Is correct THEY ARE GOING TO BAN INTERNET NEXT TIME !!!!!!!

one thing I think we should fall a petition in the court in Support OF R/C yes we should but every member help and support needed in that.
Regards,
Aman. :D

A good one. Merry Christmas.

Why we still can't track an airplane

Your doubt answered: Why we still can't track an airplane
Wondered why the aviation industry remains unable to track aircrafts even as easily available consumer devices come equipped with navigation technology?

https://in.news.yahoo.com/why-still-cant-track-airplane-042630617.html

Its very sad to know.

"There isn't a worldwide tracking system and the industry hasn't responded to put one in place" off course to cut corners for the sake of economy.

The aviation industry today is partially clueless to the whereabouts of the their own passenger airlines around the world and are reluctant to put in place system the technological need of the hour to track them at all times due to cost concerns. Hundreds of life's are lost every year. But these morons go on about on a media hype painting a picture of extreme threat perceptions and violations of drone operation of hobbyist and professionals well under the ceiling of commercial airlines.

Even if these jokers come out with some regulations or guidelines the same morons who do not have the required basic capability to track at all times a passenger airliner which is always connected with satellite communication and is transmitting its location are dreaming to control and monitor under 50 Kg payload MUAVs which has a radar signature of no more than a bird which neither blips or burps on their screens.

This is getting serious day by day... there is a article in today's Hindustan times paper were the DGCA seeks report on students flying drones..  Guys please give your views n ideas for the same as what do you feel about the action being taken by the DGCA.

This is typical of any bureaucracy. They don't do what theyshould be doing but keep themselves busy in messing up the lives of hapless citizens. No knowledge or vision of the department they head. An IAS who crammed up ancient history and now heads a technology dept. Only thing known is BAN BAN and BAN.

A typical case is where a cab driver raped a woman and the govt immediately banned all taxi bookings over the internet. At least the culprit got arrested because there was a clear record of the taxi. Would there have been a record if the cab had been boarded by hailing one from the pavement? But this is a great democratic country where the govt cares two hoots for its people. They are always on the lookout for opportunity to ban things/licence them so that people approach them for permissions and money would automatically flow in pizza boxes. Who cares for engineering students trying to learn and experiment. China has a booming market of innovative products created by teens who learn, play and innovate as they grow. Today every component used in rc is from China - created by young entreprenures rather than multinationals just because Chinese govt gave its citizens the freedom to play and learn technology. Had hopes from the present govt but alas.....

i think DGCA will issue licence to the people who want to make and flying quads for hobby purpose.

@gunnu
check the below

Then what? At least the local traffic cop can stop and check the licence on road when you drive.

 It's like these morons who can't even track and keep the biggest flying things with largest signature possible on screen efficiently but crying fowl on the million birds flying around for all their problem and threat perceptions wanting to issue licences for them to fly.

This has been the strategies of all wielding power. Use media, invent a very sentimental topic for the general public, print pages after page and hold endless discussion on it keep you on a trance of sop opera.

Grab for License..
~~~~~~~~~~
For security, Security dept will give licene to the persons who can
a) store and carry personally, within security zone and
b) Ability to Use the item anywhere the specified ITEM ...

License Grade A) For the persons who can travel keeping materials as dangerous item as per rule, for different security zones including D-Zone... will only can store and carry the dangerous item as licensed person...

License Grade B ) For the persons who have the power to throw an 500gm materials at a distance of 10 mts or more... will have to be the licensed user...


Reason for the rule :
To sort out the culprit early, as chances of accident Increased due to pollution in Politics...

the material is :
Shoe or Chappal of equivalent, having a mass of 500gm or more and having color that can be caught in camera.


Can we tolerate the above ? There is a limitation and the administrator must apply the rule which can be successfully applied and will increase the smoothness of system, and must destroy the rule which will detain our technological progress and human resourse... Everyone should think over that.....

India is the only country in the world which has a ban on recreational use of model aircraft. And we pride ourselves as the largest democracy. New definition - Government of inept bureaucacy, for the bureucracy, by gullible people who dream of GOOD GOVERNANCE. Hollow oratory of netas, both old and new.

I remember that for Amateur Radio hobby, in 1985, when imports were totally licenced, import of Amateur Radio equipment was permitted at 0% duty. Reason- Rajeev Gandhi was an active Ham and to legalise his imports it was done. Unfortunately, Modi has no kids who could be interested in aeromodelling else there would have been other rules. Or our dear Rahul need to develop some interest in flying, real or model planes. Till then...

Dear All Please send the following to DGCA by speed post:


To, Date.
The Director General of Civil Aviation
DGCA Complex
Opp.Safdarjung Airport
New-Delhi-110003

Sub:-Public Notice.No.05-13/2014-AED Dated 7th.October 2014.on UAV/UAS
We the following aeromodelers, fly model aircraft in restricted areas in (mention city) under the guidelines of Aero Club of India and Aero Modelers Association.These are purely for recreation and educational purpose,non-commercial use.
Your subject public notice mentions restrictions on UAV/UAS and we hope that model aircraft are not covered by the said notice,we request you to kindly issue a clarification so we can continue the activity and hold annual aeromodelers meet,where ever the local authorities permit us to do so.
Thanking You
Yours Sincerely
1.NAME AGE Signature

I sent this to DGCA on 11th Oct. as soon as i saw the notice.
Respected Sir,
Does your captioned notice mean that that all recreational flying by aeromodellers is to be stopped?
Since i have been an aeromodeller for the last 45 years, and i and my wife fly RC models at an empty plot on sundays with a few friends, i need to know if it is still legal to do so.
Regards
K K Iyer,
Retired Director,
State Bank Foundation Institute -Chetana
Indore

The next day i sent them this:
Respected Sir,
This is further to earlier email.
It seems to me that there is a simple way to address the the safety and security concerns of DGCA, without curtailing the rights of hobbyists to enjoy their hobby.

1. DGCA could set up a website for flyers of remote controlled aircraft models to register on
2. Flyers of RC aircraft models can register by providing their name, ID, address, phone number, transmitter frequency and location of usual flying site, and get a registration number.
3. Flyers of non remote controlled models need not register.
4. Main restrictions can be:
- weight not to exceed 5kg
- no flight above 400 ft
- no flight within 5km of an ATC airport
- no flight over public or vehicles or houses. Rules for permission can be worked out.

The DGCA registration can be like a car numberplate. Flyers can proudly display on their models.

Anyone caught in suspicious circumstances can easily be identified as a bonafide hobbyist or not.

I sincerely hope that you would consider these suggestions.
You would recall that for many decades we were not allowed to photograph airports, something that is now allowed.

Sir, all aeromodellers are not necessarily enemies of the State.

Yours faithfully,

Laxman sir, has AMAI pulled any strings so far?
Or is it an afterthought?

Ashok ji you are absolutely correct ...thumbs upp

 :thumbsup: iyer sir..

Wonderful suggestion Iyer Sir  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

i am totally agree with you laxmansuthar. tomorrow ill surely post letter to DGCA...

@iyer sir....we totally agreed your words.
ACI and AMA has already written to them with supporting document.

Laxman

iyer sir ;thumbsup;

letter posted to DGCA..

In the part [mention city] you are supposed to put in the name of your city! :rofl:

oppss forgot.. let me correct first..
thanx @SK1701

What I personally feel the we must have a separate licence for the people who want to operate it for commercial video & photography purpose, because these are the people who widely fly it in public places as per the clients requirement.

"ICAO Panel Will Recommend First UAV Standards in 2018"

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2015-01-06/icao-panel-will-recommend-first-uav-standards-2018 (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2015-01-06/icao-panel-will-recommend-first-uav-standards-2018)

So if we are waiting for this does that mean no flying till 2018 or beyond ??!

Many countries including FAA USA has started giving case to case basis exemptions and permissions for capable and worthy private applicants for commercial purposes. Things should fall in place in due course of time. Till such time really hoping ignorant, over exuberant and ill prepared few among us in the hobby community do  not invite more negative publicity on the subject by thier adventurous antics.

It starts:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/permission-needed-to-fly-drone-in-public/article6764693.ece (http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/permission-needed-to-fly-drone-in-public/article6764693.ece)

DGCA permission needed which can not be given since no rules are framed

We can all write up to the newspaper editors to bring up this discussion and the grievances and problems(import,flying spaces,etc) faced by ppl like us in the hobby! What do you ppl think? ??? ???

 Just for interest sake I thought you may like to know where we stand in Australia on the "Multicopter" front. Our government has spoken about a licencing system for copter users. A 100% free licence to fly for hobbyists. This basically lets them know who is licensed to fly in any particular area. So they can keep tabs on us.

They then intend to licence commercial pilots who wish to use their copters for monetary gain. A very strict and awkward licence to gain. Numerous examinations and I've been told by one applicant they intend it to be almost as hard to get as a full sized light plane licence. No doubt full records would have to be kept and this no doubt would be available to the taxation department.

Unfortunately it's only being spoken about and as yet absolutely nothing has been done to get the ball rolling. The endless and costly Government department studies have to be finalised before it's put to parliament. Getting anything done in a hurry is almost impossible, unless it favors the country's coffers of course. I recall applying for a community radio licence and was told that band plan studies were underway and I would have to wait 7 years. It actually took 11 before the licence was granted. Perhaps we may see action by 2020 if we're lucky.

In the meantime we are treading very carefully, but media being the beast they are are jumping on anything and everything which paints copters in a bad light. After all, since when does good news sell papers? :-)

On a personal level I sincerely hope you can do everything possible to put your hobby in the good books with both your public and government. Stunt flying in the wrong areas and cowboy pilots should be ridiculed and avoided at all costs. Stop referring to copters as Drones. Ask the average person on the street what a drone is and they'll tell you it's something used in Iran or Iraq to spy and kill people. Above all TALK to as many people as you can and show them exactly what it is a copter consists of. Getting public approval for your hobby will help getting Government approval.

For example I spoke to a friend of mine about my quads and he showed interest. He's our local Fire Chief and he's just announced the fire brigade will be using a quad with FPV equipment to look at bush fires from the air as well as building fires. We couldn't get better publicity for our hobby and simply because I spoke to the right person. He will now talk to other fire chiefs and the word will spread. Sadly every step forward will be negated by idiots believing copters are dead easy to fly and can't hurt anyone. One bad story about copters will be more welcomed by the media than a good story, so keep feeding them good stories.

Don't see this fight as something you "must do" better to see it as something you "want to do" Just don't try to hide what you're doing. Form a club or a social group and if you find someone is painting a bad picture of copter flyers then as a group approach that person and try to get him or her involved in your group. Then it's easy to teach him the right way to do it. Other than that, have fun. When people see others having fun, they want to be part of it. The more people flying, the better for convincing Governments to allow it. Good luck.

if one wants to define role and coverage of media today this "What's up" joke sums it all up

""A King enrolled his donkey in a race
& won.
Local paper read:
'KING's ASS WON'
The king was so upset with this kind
of publicity that he gave the donkey
to the queen.
The local paper then read:
"QUEEN HAS THE BEST ASS IN
TOWN"
The king fainted....
Queen sold the donkey to a farmer
for 10$.
Next day paper read: "QUEEN SELLS
HER ASS FOR $10"
The queen fainted...
The next day king ordered the queen
to buy back the donkey and leave it
in jungle.
The Next Headlines:
"QUEEN ANNOUNCES HER ASS IS
FREE & WILD"
The king died... !!
That's Media"

This is whats happening in US of A between FAA and unmanned Community and law enforcing authority

I am sure our DGCA is also just toeing the same line blindly

Reader while reading are just required to replace for "FAA" read "DGCA"

http://www.suasnews.com/2015/01/33796/the-enforcer/ (http://www.suasnews.com/2015/01/33796/the-enforcer/)

to quote

"The Enforcer
by Patrick Egan • 9 January 2015
ENFORCER
Have we plateaued at a new level of absurdity (maybe 10-3), with the police now acting as the enforcement arm for the FAA? Some suggest that this amounts to a huge an unfunded mandate and is apparently another misstep in a folly conga line.

The authorization of deadly force in Attachment A. What has this country and government come to? Who would have ever thought that the citizenry would let themselves be subjugated to this type of a unilateral autocracy?

People that I talk to, manufacturers and end-users tell they are afraid to speak up for fear of retaliation from the FAA. Is this a representative government or is that over and I didn’t get the memo? Folks follow the special interest model as the norm. The FAA works for you, and we should be incensed at the level of incompetence that is the UAS airspace integration effort.

There is a reasonable expectation that hundreds of thousands of these are already flying in the NAS, and the mantra from the regulator is that safety is key, and we want to get the rule right. Okay, but is the NAS safer with no regulation? Or, are we hiding behind we said “no” and that makes it safe enough? Many believe that to be a weak argument and doe’s little to bolster the notion that the safety of the NAS is the primary goal. The assumptions with that and that the modelers are safer then the commercial end-user have to be reexamined.

Every other group working the effort is telling me that I should be encouraged as things are going to get better. However, I’ve been hearing that someone is on the case for years, but efforts like this once let out into the wild are hard to recapture.

You as a stakeholder have to understand the pushback from these efforts. Again, for the record, I will state my motives; I have none besides seeing as many people as possible being able to employ unmanned technology. The DoD vendor model and people are moving into the large companies and those that are supposedly “watchdogs” are lapdogs working solely for their company or benefactor motives. The rising stars are inept and okay with onerous regulation as they believe that it will benefit their individual businesses and stockholders or whomever they can find to pay the tab.

What you are hearing and seeing is an unorganized monster wasting tons of money and more importantly, your valuable time.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

This is where Patrick recorded Jim saying the FAA were sending out this guidance to law enforcement agencies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgf_4-5Z_wg (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://)

The whole issue raised is a cover up to compensate in favour of large organisations for the commercialisation aspects, and this is going to be one long dirty battle, for sure!

I contacted a senior, and a friend who is in the media scene, to ask him that what should be our next step regarding the issue, gave this link to see.
lets see what he comes up with ...

I am new to this Hobby and joined a course for learning to Build my own RC flight , please let me know is flying a RC flight legal and not a problem in India ?. Some of the discussion shows that government is going to come up with rules, until then do we need to wait?

According to my assumption we will win ! If you ask how ? Let me tell you Rc  is a billion dollar business , companies like hobbyking , DJI , A.R spend tons of money and from them govts of China , USA and other notable countries receive a lot of money in the form of taxes so I think the usa (faa) is going to give it a green signal with certain rules and limitations ! And as know DGCA copies FAA so we will get similar rules which will definitely take some time , as we know how fast is Indian govt workes !! So set back and relax think positive and avoid flying in cities ! And other places with people near by !

roshan.dixit  :thumbsup:

The govt of India though aware of the fact that tobacco causes cancer even then they just make companies who make tobacco product print only a warning sign   at the back of their devilish products , Why don't they completely BAN
TOBACCO!! PRODUCTS which clam millions of lives each year !!
Why they want to ban this peaceful hobby which we LOVE ...
I guarantee if most of the people  join in this hobby ... this hobby can do magic as it can reduce unwanted malicious and venomous addictions  as this hobby will  keep them preoccupied in creative and fun activities  !! what do you say guys??

The have already ban smoking in public places :P
They wont ban production of drones, they would ban flying in public places

I completely agree, flying near people is a hazard in too many ways. Lets see what will happen  :-X

Sahil

Any one got Non Objection Certificate from the police  ??? If yes pls guide me..My quad is sitting idle for the past 1 month  :'(

i'm soooooo upset that I just saw this when I came back from police station.

Today I just use DJI Phantom 2 Vision+ in marina beach, then the police man take me to police station and take my aircraft without give me any receipt, they said this is banned in all india, is that true? if it's banned, why they still selling in amazon india and also so many local market?

hello @FrankSu
welcome to forum..
avoid quads and airplane to fly at public places coz this may harm any one... and don't know why this happens to you . yesterday  
i was flying my quad in ground (near my home) two police man came and ask me about my quad like from where you bought this ? how far it can go ? how much weight it can handle? etc etc... but they didn't did anything... they saw me flying for few mints and leave... i don't know y there is so much restriction in this hobby...
regards  

thanks my friend, but now I loss my aircraft, maybe because I'm foreigner, is there any regulation announce in chennai?

don't have any knowledge about that but only thing i know is DGCA banned all these things...
there are many members from chennai.. i think they can help you with that question.
regards

ok, thank you so much.

First of all flying on a beach is illegal as your putting other ppl on the beach at danger! However professional you may be at flying the police is not going to consider that..if you did intend to fly on a beach you should have asked the police for permission. Drones are considered illegal at public places like monuments, beaches,etc...to avoid such problem fly at local ground early in the morning or at noon(when ppl are less)...
By reading this please don't feel that i am against you! Thank you! :hatsoff:

ok, I got it, so they will take my aircraft and not give back to me anymore?

Try taking to them...did your plane have a cam?

if it din't you could tell them that you weren't aware of the rules and you were just flying. If it did ask them that you could delete the footage in front of them and release the drone by paying them money(they are greedy ppl :banghead: :banghead:)

hahahaha  good idea by @Himadri Roy .. ;D ;D
try bribe... :giggle:

regards
 

@himadri roy,
@gunnu,
Maybe as a nation, we are all corrupt,
But do we have to broadcast it to foreigners?

What are you guys advising?
To pay bribe?
Hope you know the consequences of such advice documented on a public forum.

@admin
Request you to take a stand on this.

Money does work if the policeman is not honest(most of them aren't :giggle: :giggle:)even my friend got his plane quad away and he got it released by paying 1000rs... :hatsoff:

+1 K K Iyer

sorry @iyer sir (out of topic) last week i was caught by a cop in chandigarh.. (i had my all documents complete.) he said you have to pay 1500 fine coz you are in wrong lane.. i was in slow lane... i said i m right... he said i m gona charge you 1500.. or gime some money and ill let you go.. so he takes 100 rs and let me go....

regards

I din't mean to defame our nation but if through this forum any higher official comes to know about my advice he's welcomed. Let him too know how corruption has come in this system... :hatsoff:

Thanks to your friend for setting an EXCELLENT example  :banghead:

"DJI" is the brand who killed this innocent hobby within few months.

I suppose some of the above correspondents, when they reach voting age, will accept money from all political parties, and then vote for the one that gave them the most (and claim that as a demonstration of their honesty)!

Please note i have not mentioned any names.

Edit: no more comments from me on this issue.

@Dharmik sir: i wouldn't  agree with this its the people who have been using the product carelessly(don't mean to point fingers at anyone)are at fault not the company. The products are reliable but misuse is causing bad names to the company! :hatsoff: When a watch is made the company intends the people to use it for time keeping but its not their(company's) problem if someone uses it for making bomb timer! :hatsoff:

@Iyer Sir: My friend did whatever he though it was right at that time(think yourself in his place. You surrounded by policemen asking you to come to police station(and not ready to hear a word from you) or pay up to avoid it plus who likes going to police station? :giggle:)

Though not related with hobby, but still Why you people don't store the police head quarter number ??? in your cellphone ??? for street problems!!!
Always an state level police service officer (Sometimes IPS too) present there to help you.
Please use that. That is an Landline number and always ready to serve the NATION.
Even if you have no traffic head quarter number, just call police head quarter no.
They will transfer you to traffic headquarter no. in case of road problem.
Just ask in phone with salutation like, Sir, @#$%^ asking for the. I can give &^%$#  but I need refund as without bill. Please discuss directly with amount, and then give the cellphone to the pirated COP. I can assure that u will definitely help your nation as well as you will  be free as quick as desire as you are calling with your cellphone, and call be forwarded from HQ to traffic guard.
Afterwards please send the officer an thanks letter of appreciation if you happy with the service only.

I got help even at 11.30 night. In West Bengal, Kolkata Police Head Quater number is =>  +91 33 2214 5000

Looks like Our friend Frank Su is arrested for this matter :(

http://www.ndtv.com/chennai-news/police-seize-drone-from-chinese-national-in-chennai-question-him-737998 (http://www.ndtv.com/chennai-news/police-seize-drone-from-chinese-national-in-chennai-question-him-737998)

I said it before, say it again, half knowledge is very dangerous, these guys having no idea of whats heads and whats tails are lured by their empty minds to label flying as a threat to the country. Who in his right mind would spy on someone with 4x propellers buzzing like the sun don't shine...they are seriously misinformed by the early 90's minds.

the DGCA and the WPC are very ill informed lot of this country. the officials of both this organization are completely unaware of where the world is going....

if we Indians can really make world class UAV's i think the "MAKE IN INDIA" factor will be put to the real use... only if this DGCA AND WPC also start changing with their attitudes and mentality

Now we all have to que up at some govt. dept to get our self tested for flying skills??  :giggle:
(Just joking not know what certification meant)

Regarding people who are suggesting their way of bribing as a solution to problems in public, please note one thing.  It is absolutely clear that bribes work because it is the easy way out, and the person giving the bribes are spoiling the system as much or worse than the ones who take them. In every department, there are people who are beyond these, and there is a redressal mechanism for such scenarios, if only we had the time/patience.  Some of just may not have the time, but most often it is just the easy way out.

Each person is responsible for any content they post here, for the better and for the worse.

@anwar sir,
Thank you for making the position clear.
Regards.

Bribing was never a solution it's a shortcut which at the end is doing more bad then the benefit it gives

http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8046495/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-faa-drone-rules (http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8046495/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-faa-drone-rules)

See #5

Most welcome and sensible move. Wondering by when our copy cats are replicating it verbatim.  :)

in our next life

Take a look at this yesterdays news http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/others/Drone-industry-awaits-DGCA-guidelines/articleshow/46402122.cms (http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/others/Drone-industry-awaits-DGCA-guidelines/articleshow/46402122.cms)

Is there any news on RC flying ban by DGCA.

One should not be surprised if it comes through.... courtesy our panicky top administrators who can convert anything into Anti National interest and shut it down.  Also some overt modellers who are trying to prove the same.....

All this fuss now :( I really hope it is after I get all my parts. They will be crushing down a man's only dream.

Are there any Government Rules to fly RC models like quadcopter, Is there any link where I can get all info about RC model flying in india.

Welcome amit,  for now we're all offenders.. that is the status for the moment.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/technology-topstories/something-in-the-air-drones-finally-making-a-comeback-to-indian-skies/article1-1334043.aspx (http://www.hindustantimes.com/technology-topstories/something-in-the-air-drones-finally-making-a-comeback-to-indian-skies/article1-1334043.aspx)

Yes even I read this.. it was in yesterdays new paper HT, but still there is no update from the DGCA on flying the rc multirotors...  or even they have made any rules.. dose it really takes so long time to make regulations on flying such machines...  It all looks like the DGCA is least bothered to look into this matter.. they just declared it we are banning such things here in India & will take legal action against such people. I guess they will only think about it when they have certain pressure from their higher department seniors till them I think this matter would be still be pending... 

Apart from hobby purpose there are many other up coming Indian companies that are into development & manufacturing of such machines which are effected by the DGCA decision..

are quadcopter banned in india
since there are more arrest for flying

No.. copters and planes can never be banned in india. The aviation athourity has allowed unmanned flights and if the ban it now..then there won't be any flying anymore.. Moreover many companies like amazon are planning to supply goods via drones.. So I don't think that this will be done any soon

I think there is a ban on flying for now from DGCA according to news papers and a circular. But if you stay away from public places and fly at local club that would do.

Correct me if I am wrong.

you can fly planes & copters in a flying club... that's understandable common sense.. but you are not allowed to fly the multi-copter in public places & make a video or take pictures it banned as per the rules stated by the DGCA

you can fly planes & copters in a flying club... :) so be happy..

Its also said in the news paper that  "The government is yet to carry out extensive studies on allocating spectrum, segregating airspace, deciding what altitude they can fly. Regulations will not come out this year or the next," said Sarkar.

This was taken from last years news paper it means even this year the DGCA will not come up with the regulations for drone flying & has kept us hanging in the air till the rules come...  this attitude of DGCA of not coming up with the regulations shows that they are not interested in the progress of country & technology.. 

Or as the former article mentioned, there is no one at DGCA with "expertise" in "drones". There aren't enough people putting pressure or pulling strings for this.

I am sure everyone here at Rc India would really like to know what expertise dose the DGCA has

Is it legal to fly professional grade quads in India. ???

"In October last year, India had banned private organisations and individuals from launching UAVs." Is it true ?

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/regulator-set-to-clear-norms-for-commercial-use-of-drones/ (http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/regulator-set-to-clear-norms-for-commercial-use-of-drones/)
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-drones-banned-till-dgca-sets-the-rules-2024734 (http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-drones-banned-till-dgca-sets-the-rules-2024734)

Read this post
http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/the-dgca-strikes-back/ (http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/the-dgca-strikes-back/)

Moderators kindly merg this thread ,if possible

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Terror-alert-so-cops-will-ground-drones/articleshow/47076634.cms (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Terror-alert-so-cops-will-ground-drones/articleshow/47076634.cms)

This article elaborates on threats due to drones  >:(
But one thing , it says not to fly any more in Delhi (specifically saying)due to terror threats , that means one could have flown one before this warning.!so what is the point of order which came out in October last year?also ,apart from Delhi,people can fly one?

I don't get it why do the newspaper always have to elaborate on the cons of the multi rotors :banghead: :banghead: why not its benefits? It was used in the Nepal Earthquake for survelliance and search for stranded or injured people even during the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant disaster they were used for monitoring radioactivity level! :headscratch:
(don't drone sound like the one used in Afghanistan to bomb the terrorist? :banghead: :banghead:)
Man!!

"What if hackers take over wireless communication" - As much as i know no incidents of hacking a multirotor has been reported which is controlled by radio input(the ones controlled by WiFi or via internet are prone to hacking)
Yes only the signals can be jammed!

There is even real "drone" warfare going on in Ukraine where the rebels and army use Phantoms to gather intel about army movements etc. There is even a video on YT where the rebel guys jam its signal, crash the copter down and use the footage from the GoPro to find government force's locations and identify reinforcements. Yes, this isn't a hollywood movie, it's happening now.

This is like giving a kid a bat. He can score sixes and fours with it, become the next god or he could go and swing it at a policeman's head. Banning it isn't going to stop the "bad guys" from using it(look at the drug market), regulating and monitoring works(*legal* weed).

Here's that video(they use the term quadrocopter :giggle:):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL0RStDSxLU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL0RStDSxLU#ws)
And another about the whole thing (these are all propaganda videos so take them with a bag of salt):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHo7x2Vcjjg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHo7x2Vcjjg#ws)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32607876 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32607876)

The Directorate General of Civil Aviation's plan to allow commercial use of drones in India is stuck due to delays in clearances from the home, telecom and defence ministries. The civil aviation ministry had sought approval from these ministries, which have not responded.

Apart from India, countries such as the US, Australia and New Zealand are working on formulating laws to govern the commercial operations of drones as governments fret about the security risks posed by these unmanned aerial vehicles. "The civil aviation ministry has taken this up the issue with these three ministries again and sent them a reminder on the issue," said a senior government official, who did not want to be identified.
While the civil aviation ministry is the nodal ministry for formulation of rules for commercial use of drones, consent from the three ministries is also needed. Analysts say it's time the DGCA came out with the policy.

"The role of UAVs in commercial applications, internal security and national defence is increasing. DGCA must put a tight deadline on other ministries and release the draft policy the earliest. The policy can always be fine-tuned over time," said Amber Dubey, partner and India head of aerospace and defence at global consultancy KPMG.

The DGCA had banned the use of drones for commercial purposes in October last year since the International Civil Aviation Organisation did not have any standards for their operations. A change in the aviation regulator's stance came after countries such as the US, Australia and New Zealand notified rules for commercial operations of drones.

"We had banned it but we recently allowed use of drones during the Indian Premier League matches. They had approached us for approval," said a DGCA official. The official added that rules for commercial use of drones in India are similar to the Australian and US rules. The US limits commercial drone flights to below 500 feet during the daytime and within sight of the operator and also bans operating commercial drones near airports.

The concept of delivery through drones picked up recently after companies such as Amazon announced they would use them for relatively light packages. Amazon also said in December it is looking to launch delivery of goods through drones first in India, if they're allowed for commercial use. The US Federal Aviation Administration is reported to have plans to announce an initiative to study drone flights beyond the sight of the operator.

Ray of hope , finally

If only our beloved ban specialist decade can pull something like FAA's app,http://www.faa.gov/uas/b4ufly/

www.faa.gov/uas/b4ufly/ (http://)

The APM mission planner already have marked a no-fly zone around all major airports around the world and military zones. I believe it is also the same case with DJI products. APM might also extend it to lock under such areas (https://github.com/diydrones/ardupilot/issues/1056), one of the nifty features of adding a GPS to your aircraft :D

Even Multiwii has added the feature. Even our local helicopter airport is marked and sadly all our flying feild is inside danger zone marked. We just maintain different flying times flying under  the  explicit umbrella of the appropriate authority.

Well as it is flying near Airports, civil or Military i.e. within 10 miles (18 Kms) is unsafe and needs to be stopped..... Most of us are unaware of this and they continue to fly in the vicinity of airfields.  Similarly due to the sensitive nature flying near prohibited zones and military establishments is also not accepted.  We need to understand and respect that.  I am sure DGCA will come out with a descent enough policy to allow the hobby to flourish....

Shobbit  sir  for the sake of not conveying wrong message amended my earlier post after seeing yours.  ;D.

but 10 mile for a heliport? ???  ;D ;D ;D.

There might be altitude limitations as well, a 5-10 kilometer radius ban is expected. In the US it is 8km radius of airports.
http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/ (http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/)

Well in India... the local control zone of the ATC... i.e. where the aeroplanes carry out their circuit flying and can be expected to be flying rather low and slow is 10 Miles..... thats how the distance of 10 Miles..... Air flying it is Nautical miles and so it works out to 1 NM = 1.8 Kms. i.e. = 18 kms.  One may be permitted to fly in this area after due clearances at specified time... but one must avoid this zone.

Dear Members,
The Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) in INDIA had recently made contact with me. And asked to help with issue of drone regulations and possible future threat to citizens through RC Drones. The questions they are asking are capability of Drones carrying IEDs , how are these imported into the country, what are the channels drones are being distributed. who are the people operating them. any thoughts on that.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-new-policy-for-commercial-use-of-drones-likely-soon-2084535 (http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-new-policy-for-commercial-use-of-drones-likely-soon-2084535)

Finally looks like its happening...  But why do you have to start a new thread for this..  when there is already a thread for DGCA.

Guys i told you it will take some time but ,As we know DGCA refers to the international aviation authorities so there will be the same rules followed up in US,AUS, etc , As they dont have time to do some research and than formulate the rules ! Its India!   RESEARCH is a word not spoken by researchers  , but POLITICIANS AND BUREAUCRATS  so , EX Indian constitution composed of various constitutions , So relax they are not going to ban us , but it may take them the ages to formulate clear rules !!

I guess if everyone followed these things would have been better

http://youtu.be/XF5Q9JvBhxM (http://youtu.be/XF5Q9JvBhxM)

Seriously

http://gizmodo.com/9-misconceptions-about-drones-that-engineers-wish-youd-1709827612

9 Misconceptions About Drones That Engineers Wish You'd Shut Up About

1. They’re not actually called drones, nor quadcopters
2. The biggest danger from drones isn’t invasion of privacy
3. They’re not all killing machines
4. They can’t take down planes
5. You can’t hear them coming a mile away
6. They don’t need a human controlling them
7. They are not toys
8. Jamming their signals doesn’t take them down
9. They won’t be delivering your mail (or your pizza) anytime soon
Nice read :)

www.punemirror.in/pune/civic/Police-dont-want-unidentified-objects-flying-in-city-skies/articleshow/47695356.cms

I know this is not something new to us, but how long can we ignore such actions? sooner or later we need to find some solution for this.

Your valuable inputs in this regards are most welcomed.

please read on.....

http://www.punemirror.in/pune/civic/Police-dont-want-unidentified-objects-flying-in-city-skies/articleshow/47695356.cms

This is getting out of hand. If this goes on soon everybody flying a drone (call it a quadcopter if you like but police will not listen) will be branded a criminal. I am not in Pune but I'm afraid that soon other police agencies in India will follow suit.

In one way, granting permission is good. But how "liberal" is that permission remains to be seen. Probably they are not aware of DGCA notification else they wouldn't have granted that "permission" either.

Just replace the word 'guns' to 'RC crafts', and you might get the feel of how they think of us! Listen carefully till he talks about drugs, then it is absolutely apt equally to our nice hobby. But again, not as serious issue as guns, so take it easy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl--YVnni0I

They say we are THE threat to civil aviation.

Wonder with what regulations they are planning to contain these buggers   :rofl: :rofl:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11220070_1424324461226220_6196604194170316939_n.jpg?oh=69819acb1b9b84d4099c08038d24e3c0&oe=562B3DFE&__gda__=1444764030_856ad7ef737888574810a6599552abe9)

Ewww!  :rofl:

Ban'em!

http://www.suasnews.com/2015/06/36711/first-drone-deliveries-coming-july-17/

They were first going nuts claiming crazy extreme threat scenarios.

Now it seems all Hunky-dory for the same drone delivery.  :giggle: :giggle:

Now once again the buggers back at home are going to be left out once more outside the Race silly, red faced and looking foolish.

I hope at least now its the right time for "copying time" for framing regulation or are we going to drag our feet ever so lethargically to get our-self framing regulations.

Absolute Answer to DGCA . Sir

Haven't I been saying this

Its inevitable that future of aviation industry is unmanned

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/26/travel/remote-controlled-passenger-airplane/index.html

@sundaram

Where was this picture taken? ??

Guys take the remote and change the channel to colors. DRONESHWAR!!!

????

Now Delhi Police will follow the DGCA Notification to the letter - and ARREST!

(http://s25.postimg.org/amja9kf9b/IMG_20150703_071410_HDR.jpg)

(http://s25.postimg.org/q9f50oif3/IMG_20150703_071425_HDR.jpg)

They should make rules or stop the ban
They can't stop people from flying them without imposing rules
What if people are flying safely ?

One thing is that they are banning it in city only.But a definite  law is needed.Its one emerging hobby and business.
If one drives a car dangerously, it can be disastrous, still driving is legal.same idea should be followed in this case too.The user must be responsible.never should be misused.

It's about time , our community takes proactive steps, make a delegation and meet meet the concerned authorities.
Without which I guess soon we will be crushed to a bunch of people trying to find a secluded place to fly in hiding.

Doc, people in Delhi have been trying for years. But representative bodies don't have teeth (are you a member of AMAI?)

And no one in Government wants to stick their neck out and render themselves responsible in the event of any mishap

Delhi is a state with a fairly large population. The Delhi Police falls under the Centre, not the State Government. This is a precursor, a warm-up. Get ready for the main show - starting soon, pan India

Sanjay sir, could you tell me, RC India has how many members ?

13879 ;) as on 5th July 2:43 pm IST

I have an idea, what if we form an association/system with a petition for a change in rules.
More than this, if we have to ... we can form proper rules and regulation and a system which allows a license that proves that we are using the proper practises and things.
All this only requires a website, that i can make/ask some friends.
A  lawyer ( I guess )
and an adult to pass the main petition ( I am a teenager )

Do you think this is possible ?

Rai sir , Yes,  but AMAI hasn't been doing enough, to get things into place. DGCA closely follows FAA , the ban came immediately after FAA ban ,and  when FAA has come out with norms , why can't DGCA.
It's basically because we haven't been aggressive about it. It's not about Delhi alone we need to get together, and approach  the authorities, Some one needs to lead. I hope AMAI seriously looks into the matter if not very soon the association would be non existent.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/public-notice-against-drones-aerial-toys/article7381057.ece
Delhi ban seems like a precaution for August 15 celebrations,as per The Hindu.It says ban till August 15th!

I think all is for safety precautions for Aug15th...Probably they are doing there job, but they dont know how to do it.

What an idea, sirjee  :rofl: :rofl:

I am in I will help as much as I can

Thank you, sirjee : P

Today, Mr Pranjal Kulkarni from Pune has invited a press conference, In support of Aeromodelling, and a letter is being sent to the PMO ( Prime Ministers Office) regarding the same.
Let's hope for the best, At least this will set the ball rolling.

Lets hope for the best

MUMBAI: A day after a professor of the Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS) alerted the police about someone flying a drone outside the campus, the Trombay police on Tuesday detained an employee of housing.com, a real estate portal. An unidentified drone seen hovering around 40m above the TISS in Trombay on Monday afternoon triggered a security alert as the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre is nearby.

On Tuesday, the Trombay police questioned the portal's data collector Shiv Sahane (30) for nearly four hours and also seized the drone fitted with a high-resolution camera and memory card containing around 300 pictures. Police said they are still doing an analysis of the pictures, so the process of registering an FIR and the decision to arrest Sahane will be taken in a day or two. TOI was first to report it in its Tuesday's edition.

Mumbai police chief Rakesh Maria said, "We are legally examining the issue but we will definitely take action as the portal did not have permission to use a drone to shoot."

The TISS professor, who had spotted two people using the drone to shoot photos, had clicked their photos and noted down their car number.

"Based on the information, we traced the tourist car and they gave us the details. We found that the person using the drone was from housing.com. We have seized all the photos and the drone. They have violated rules," said Sangramsinh Nishandar, DCP (zone 6). He said they may be booked under IPC Section 188 (disobedience to order duly promulgated by public servant).

Sahane told the police that he had gone to click photos of an upcoming housing project. The portal wanted photos from various angles, hence they used the drone. Sahane also said he had similarly shot many photos on earlier occasions. "There is a blanket order that drones cannot be used within the city without prior permission," said Deven Bharti, joint CP (law and order).

Source : TOI

I wonder what kind of idiots would fly a quad near BARC? Or is it really a more sinister plan? Whatever be the case, everyday its becoming more tough for hobbyists to fly a quadcopter.

The Blo****y Jokers have literally lost track of their Job description purview. Instead of cleaning the whole loads of S**t already in their domain of commercial aviation industry which needs urgent attention, they have stooped down to their new ultimate low now in this fruitless caution, effort and errand towards drone safety.

FAA Approves Commercial Use Of Drone Paper Airplane. Yes. Really.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2015/08/27/faa-approves-first-ever-commerical-drone-operation-in-a-paper-airplane-yes-really/

Lol

lol

Trust me guys, this thing will go on clearly for a decade or so, to settle for something that would be wholly compromised for most of us.. Good luck!

what are you trying to say?

Well..FAA eventually allowed flying drones subject to certain conditions. These videos are probably outdated.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/#qn2


As for DGCA, drones and all other UAVs are still banned. But we have hope for the future.

(http://s23.postimg.org/9l1kskekr/drone.jpg)

http://pgportal.gov.in/OpenDocuments.aspx?DOCS=PMOPG_E_2015_0049186_1.pdf&type=FR&did=00000.00000.00000&regno=PMOPG_E_2015_0049186&id=anilcpgrams4.0&UId=wnAnilsw&CSession=ddd

https://medium.com/@dannysullivan/open-letter-why-gov-brown-should-veto-california-s-unreasonable-unsafe-anti-drone-law-882daaeea822

Interesting Read.

http://www.aeriographer.com/tired-people-saying-drones-illegal-real-talk-law-really-isnt/

We are tired of people saying “DRONES ARE ILLEGAL!” Here is real talk on what the law really is or isn’t

Current Drone Law

0616-drones-over-america.jpg_full_600

This website relates to the remote-controlled model aircraft variety of drones, not military drones.

To most people, the word drone connotes a weapon of war. In part because every article you read and every television story you inevitably display this photo of a militarydrone. While the word drone finds its roots in the military, (where they were originally used for target practice), in reality a drone is any of a number of types of unmanned flying craft— some used in warfare, others used for pleasure or profit. For the purposes of this website, the word drone refers to the remote-controlled model aircraft variety, (“RCMA”), and nothing else.

The federal government has no authority whatsoever to regulate the operation of remote-controlled model aircraft.

Despite what you might have seen, heard or read to the contrary; despite the FAA’s claim that it has authority over RCMA; despite the FAA having sent several cease and desist letters, (obtained recently via FOIA request by Patrick Mckay), to persons who were operating RCMA for commercial purposes, there exists not a single federal statute, not a single federal regulation and no case law that in any way regulates the operation of RCMA.

None.

Federal statutes, regulations and case law concerning RCMA do not exist.

In the absence of any federal statute, regulation or case law that prohibits a particular activity, that activity is completely legal. That’s how the law works. Nothing is illegal solely because a government agency claims that it’s illegal. There must be something engrossed in our bodies of law that actually states that it is illegal. Since there is nothing at all in our bodies at law that make it illegal, at this time, RCMA are completely unregulated federally, and anyone is free to operate them in any manner they wish, whether for pleasure or profit, regardless of what the FAA might claim.

Please note that I am not asserting any opinion as to whether RCMA should ever be regulated. Rather, I am asserting that at this time, they are not federally regulated. Nor will they be anytime soon. Under Section 336 of the FMRA of 2012, Congress has dictated that the FAA will not be permitted to “promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft.”

But the same Act will exclude RCMA’s that are used commercially from the definition of RCMA, and the FAA will be able to promulgate rules and regulations for RCMA usedcommercially. Thus the exact same make and model of RCMA will ultimately be regulated if used commercially, and unregulated if used non-commercially. Since the FAA’s primary reason for existence is safety, it begs the question how the exchange of money is even remotely related to safety.

Remote-controlled model aircraft are not “aircraft,” as defined in federal statutory and regulation language.

The federal statutes that govern aviation are found in Title 49 Section 44101, et seq. of the US Code. Under 49 USC 40102, “aircraft” means, “any contrivance invented, used, or designed to navigate, or fly in, the air.“ The federal regulations that pertain to aviation are found in 14 CFR 1.1, et seq. Under 14 CFR 1.1, “aircraft” means, “a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.” Both the statutes and regulations define aircraft similarly, and in extremely broad terms. Taken literally, these definitions would include many things.

Take for example, paper airplanes. Paper airplanes are ”contrivances” or ”devices,” and they are ”designed to…fly” or ”intended…for flight” in ”the air.” Indeed, that’s their sole purpose. They clearly meet the literal definitions of aircraft. Therefore, paper airplanes should only be operated, if they are registered, (49 USC § 44101, 49 USC § 44103 and 14 CFR Part 91.203); if the person operating them holds a proper pilot certificate and medical certificate (14 CFR 61.3); and if the paper airplane has itself been issued an airworthiness certificate (14 CFR Part 91.203).

Moreover, in the event of a paper airplane crash, the FAA and NTSB would be required by law to investigate (49 USC § 1132). 49 CFR Sec. 831.2, states, in relevant part, that the NTSB “is responsible for . . . all accident and incident investigations . . . where the accident or incident involves any civil aircraft….” (Emphasis added.) A civil aircraft means aircraft other than a public (government operated) aircraft. (14 CFR Sec. 1.1) If a paper airplane is an aircraft, the NTSB must investigate if one crashes.

Yet the FAA does not require paper airplanes or their operators to adhere to aircraft regulations. And the NTSB does not investigate their accidents. Thus, the FAA has never treated paper airplanes as aircraft. Since each and every paper airplane has been operated with open disregard to applicable aircraft regulations, and since the FAA has done nothing to prevent it since its inception, it follows that the FAA simply does not consider paper airplanes to be included in the definition of aircraft. Of course, it would be interesting to hear them argue that they are.*

Now replace the words paper airplane with remote-controlled model aircraft. RCMA are also unquestionably “contrivances” or “devices,” that are “designed to…fly” or “intended…for flight” in “the air.” Yet like paper airplanes, the FAA has never historically treated RCMA as aircraft. RCMA have never been required to be registered; they have never been required to have airworthiness certificates; their operation has never been limited to those with the proper pilot and medical certifications; and the NTSB, in defiance of law, has never swooped in to investigate when a RCMA has hit a tree and crashed. How can the FAA now insist a RCMA rises to the level of being an aircraft for safety reasons, but that same RCMA does not merit an investigation if it collides with the ground?

As is the case with paper airplanes, each and every RCMA has also been operated with open disregard to applicable aircraft regulations, and since the FAA has done nothing to prevent it since its inception, it also follows that the FAA also does not consider RCMA to be included in the definition of aircraft.

Bear in mind that it’s not as if the FAA was suddenly surprised to learn about RCMA, and that not asserting control over them was a mere oversight. RCMA are not a new phenomenon. They far pre-date the FAA’s creation. The FAA was well aware of RCMAs, their characteristics and their capabilities when the definitions of aircraft were adopted. The FAA’s historic and complete noninvolvement with RCM indicates it purposefully eschewed the role of regulator. RCMA are not aircraft because the FAA never treated them as an aircraft.

In fact the FAA recently admitted publicly, that RCMA are indeed treated differently than aircraft. A recent “tweet” from @FAASafetyBrief suggests that FAA certification is in the works.

@FAASAFETYBRIEF – WE ALSO PLAN TO WEAVE UNMANNED AIRCRAFT INFO INTO FUTURE ARTICLES, E.G., HOW TO KEEP IT AIRWORTHY AND CERTIFIED.
– 10:39 AM – 29 JAN 2014

If the FAA is now stating that it is planning to certify RCMA, by definition certification is not currently required. Since all current aircraft must be certified, the FAA is admitting that RCMA are not aircraft.

Suddenly, if used commercially, remote-controlled model aircraft are claimed to be aircraft.

Although no enforceable statute or regulation has been adopted or changed, and no case law has been decided to support it, the FAA is now repeatedly claiming RCMA, when used commercially are aircraft and subject to its authority. It relies on Title 49 and 14 CFR as a basis for its newly claimed power to regulate commercially operated RCMA as aircraft, despite the fact that no language in either the statutory or regulatory definitions of aircraft makes the exchange of money a factor. Nor is the exchange of money found within the language of the very document the FAA had always provide as a courtesy as guidance to RCMA operators— Advisory Circular 91-57. Since RCMA are exempt from registration, pilot certification, airworthiness certification and accident investigation, how does operating them for compensation magically make them aircraft?

The FAA has gone as far as sending some folks what are essentially pretend cease and desist letters in an attempt to scare them into not operating commercially. Since there is no law to back up the FAA’s order to cease and desist, those letters are entirely meaningless; have no force of law behind them; and can be ignored with impunity. Of course one might incur legal fees trying to fight a cease and desist letter regardless of its merit, which explains why those who have received them have self-grounded themselves.

[UPDATE: 02/04/2014]  Recently released copies of FAA “cease and desist” letters, obtained via FOIA request submitted by Patrick McKay, indicate the FAA is indeed, as I stated in the paragraph above, lying about the law in these letters, and are in factpretending to have authority over RCMA.

Law (versus Non-Law). Law, with respect to aviation, exists in three forms: federal statutes, federal regulations and federal case law, where the statutes and/or regulations have been interpreted. If no law exists in any of these forms, then no such law exists. One need not obey any law that does not exist.

The United States Code, Subtitle VII. Federal statutory law is enacted by Congress and found in the United States Code. The federal statutes that govern aviation are found in Title 49 USC Sec. 44101, et seq., and have the force of law. Current federal aviation statutes find their roots in the Federal Aviation Act in 1958, as revised. The Act basically provides the big picture with regard to aviation. Most importantly, it established the FAA, and granted it power to oversee and regulate matters relating to the safety and use of American airspace though the promulgation of regulations. As such, although the US Code addresses aviation law in broad terms, the details of aviation laws are actually found in the FAA regulations.

The Federal Aviation Regulations Federal regulations are promulgated by the FAA and found in the Code of Federal Regulations. The federal regulations that pertain to aviation, (the “FARs”), are found in 14 CFR 1.1, et seq., and have the force of law. There is nothing in the FARs that concerns RCMA. The FAA cannot just make up regulations as it goes along, to enforce activities that it simply wishes to enforce. There must exist an actual statute or regulation for the FAA to enforce. The FARs are the only federal regulations that exist pertaining to aviation, and are the only regulations that are legally enforceable. You’ll not find any that concern RCMA. You will see regulations that apply to other craft, such as balloons, rockets and even kites. So the FAA clearly contemplated flight-capable craft other than airplanes and helicopters when it adopted the current regulations. If the FAA had intended to regulate RCMA as well, it would have done so. It didn’t.

Federal Case Law. Federal case law is, in a nutshell, the collection of decisions made by adjudicative bodies concerning FAA enforcement actions. For example, the FAA may issue an order suspending a pilot’s certificate or it may impose a civil penalty. Enforcement actions may be appealed by way of a hearing before an NTSB administrative law judge. That judge’s decision may then be appealed to the NTSB Board. Finally, the Board’s decision may be appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals. Whatever the final decision in the matter is, at whichever stage the controversy ends becomes precedent, and that decision essentially has the force of law under the doctrine of stare decisis. At this writing, there is no case law concerning commercial RCMA use. There will be soon.

In Administrator v. Raphael Pirker, NTSB Docket CP-217, the FAA is trying to fine Raphael Pirker, (who is being defended quite capably by Attorney Brendan M. Schulman), for “reckless operation” of a remote-controlled model aircraft. Pirker was hired by the University of Virginia to obtain aerial video of its campus.

Although the FAA alleged in its Order of Assessment, (its Complaint), that Pirker was flying for compensation, interestingly enough, it did not use that allegation as a basis for the proposed assessment of a civil penalty of $10,000.00. Instead it relied on Pirker’s alleged violation of FAR 91.13(a) that states, ”no person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another” as the basis.

If commercial use is in fact illegal, why didn’t the FAA also base its Complaint on Pirker’s alleged commercial use? Well, it couldn’t because there are no regulations that prohibit commercial use, and it knew in the absence of any such regulations, basing its Complaint on commercial use wouldn’t fly. (Pun intended.)

However, by not using commercial use as a basis of the proposed civil penalty, and relying solely upon an allegation of reckless operation, the FAA has also essentially admitted in its own Complaint that commercial use is not prohibited. If Pirker prevails, it still won’t settle the specific commercial use issue because that was not a basis of the FAA’s Complaint. However it will settle the overall question as to whether the FAA has authority to regulate RCMA at all, which would, of course, include commercial use.

Non-Law. Now let’s take a look at the stuff that might sound like law, but that is not law at all. A number of folks, including the FAA, mistakenly point to any or all of the following publications as regulations prohibiting commercial use of RCMA. However, not one of the following publications has the force of law, and therefore, none is legally enforceable:

Advisory Circular 91-57, entitled, “Model Aircraft Operating Standards” and published in 1981, is essentially a letter of guidance. Compliance with its language is entirelyvoluntary and it is merely a list of ​common sense ​suggestions, and ​is not legally enforceable.

The FAA 2007 ​Clarification​ is merely ​a document that clarifies the FAA’s own current ​policy​​ concerning operations of unmanned aircraft in the National Airspace System. ​Although it does in fact state that remote-controlled model aircraft may not be used commercially, it’s an Agency policy statement. A policy statement is not legally enforceable.

​The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, specifically Title III, Subtitle B is an Act of Congress, but in and of itself does not compel any person to do or not do anything. The Act contains a number of ​directives to the FAA to develop regulations concerning the integration of unmanned aircraft into the national airspace system. By definition, Congress having directed the FAA to develop regulations means none currently exist. Moreover, these directives​ ​​apply to ​the FAA​ ​only, not the general public. They are not ​themselves regulations, and are not legally enforceable.

Unmanned Aircraft (UAS) Operational Approval, which the FAA uses as a definitive guide to the Certificate of Authority process for unmanned aircraft. However, as it reads at it’s top, it’s merely a statement of “National Policy.” And as explained above, apolicy statement is not legally enforceable.  This document even contains language admitting it’s not legally enforceable. Paragraph 5 reads that it is “not meant as a substitute for any regulatory process.”

US DOT’s Unmanned Aircraft Systems Comprehensive Plan, published in September, 2013, is merely a five-year road map. It is self-described as a list of goals and objectives, to be revised annually, in furtherance of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012′s directive to the FAA to integrate unmanned aircraft into the national airspace system. An agency’s goals and objectives are not ​regulations, and are not legally enforceable.

Certificates of Waiver or Authorization. Pretty much everyone seems to think that obtaining a “certificate of waiver or authorization” (“COA”) is required to fly a drone. That’s what the FAA has been claiming for years. However, it’s not required at all. In fact, with respect to public aircraft, (government operated aircraft, such as those operated by police and fire departments), the FAA is not even permitted to regulate airworthiness or pilot qualifications. The FAA can only regulate public aircraft insofar as they interact with all other aircraft, whether civil and public. In other words, the FAA can only legally regulate that public aircraft to the extend that they comply with Part 91 regulations.**

Still not convinced?

The FAA has said so itself:

BECAUSE THE HEART OF THIS ISSUE IS THE SAFETY AND AIRWORTHINESS OF AIRCRAFT, I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT ONLY THE FAA SHOULD MAKE SUCH DETERMINATIONS. WE ARE THE PREMIER AVIATION SAFETY OVERSIGHT AGENCY IN THE WORLD AND I AM PROUD OF OUR RECORD AND REPUTATION. BUT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND AT ALL TIMES DURING THE EXISTENCE OF THE FAA, THERE HAS BEEN A CLEAR STATUTORY DISTINCTION BETWEEN CIVIL AND PUBLIC AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS. FAA HAS REGULATORY AND OVERSIGHT AUTHORITY OVER CIVIL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS. PUBLIC AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS ARE CONDUCTED BY OR ON BEHALF OF MANY DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND DEPARTMENTS, INCLUDING STATE AND FEDERAL, FROM THE FOREST SERVICE AND THE DOI, TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO THE U.S. MILITARY. BY STATUTE, AUTHORITY FOR THE SAFETY OVERSIGHT OF THESE OPERATIONS BELONGS TO THE AGENCY OR DEPARTMENT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OPERATION. WHILE FAA CAN AND DOES PROVIDE TECHNICAL SUPPORT TO ASSIST OTHER AGENCIES WITH THEIR SAFETY OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES, THE LAW IS QUITE CLEAR THAT FAA CANNOT DIRECT OR COMPEL ANOTHER AGENCY TO IMPOSE SPECIFIC SAFETY REQUIREMENTS OR FORCE THEM TO MEET EXISTING FAA REQUIREMENTS.

– STATEMENT OF NICHOLAS A. SABATINI, ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR FOR REGULATION AND CERTIFICATION (JUNE 2, 2004)

So, if you’ve made it this far after reviewing the sources above, you will see that there really are no federal statutes, regulations or case law that applies to RCMA. This is not to say that I believe there should or should not be, or that there will or will not be, but rather that there simply are no such regulations at this writing. My intent is to observe and report on how the area of RCMA law develops.

—

* Interestingly enough, a business known as PowerUp Toys, now markets a neat little device that attaches to a paper airplane. It has a propeller and battery, and permits a person with a Smartphone to operate it remotely via Bluetooth. If the FAA claims that RCMA are aircraft, this device will place the FAA in the absurd position of having to argue that a paper airplane is now a RCMA, and indeed an aircraft.

** While USC 49 § 44711 states, “[a] person may not— (1) operate a civil aircraft in air commerce without an airworthiness certificate in effect…” and “(2) serve in any capacity as an airman with respect to a civil aircraft,” the same is not true for public aircraft. The FAA cannot require operators of public aircraft to have airworthiness certificates or be operated by certified airmen. And as absurd as it might sound, a police department helicopter need not be airworthy, and it may be flown by a non-pilot.

Source: http://dronelawjournal.com/

Sensible Guys Japanese are always.

Japanese Government to Slash Drone Regulations

http://dronelife.com/2015/11/06/japanese-government-to-slash-drone-regulations/

As the FAA gears up to increase drone regulations in the US, the Japanese government announced that it would slash regulations on drones in order to promote their use, calling them part of the “fourth industrial revolution.”

The second meeting of Japan’s Public-Private Dialogue towards Investment for the Future was held yesterday at the Prime Minister’s Office. The meetings were established in an effort to boost Japan’s participation in new technology, part of a plan to lift Japan’s sluggish economy. Members discussed investment trends and fields of innovation.

Based on the discussion, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said: “Investment is the key to a productivity revolution and it is through investment that we will lead the world in realizing a fourth industrial revolution. I believe that the challenge for a fourth industrial revolution is all about speed. Autonomous driving, drones, and the healthcare and medical fields are all promising fields in which safety and convenience can be achieved together. In the forum of this dialogue we will move quickly to determine specific measures in these fields.”

The Prime Minister stated that he would make drone delivery a reality within 3 years, and called for the immediate establishment of a council of government and industry stakeholders to discuss “specific structural and systemic requirements.”

He also said that Japan will enable drones and construction machinery to be operated and for data to be sent and received remotely from more distant locations than before. Abe announced that Japan will develop a new telecommunications infrastructure, including the expansion of usable frequency bands and enhanced output capacity, by next summer.

Also cited as part of the “fourth industrial revolution” at the meeting, autonomous driving and the use of artificial intelligence in the medical field will be encouraged through deregulation and infrastructure support.

That's Japan but unfortunately we are in India. They believe in development in itstrue sense whereas our country believes only in development of vote banks. Drones will not vote!!!!!! We never participated in any industrial revolution, so why now?
.

I AM NOT SURE WHAT WE CAN GAIN BY DISCUSSING IT HERE.

I deal with Govts. day in and out and all those who knows how a Govt. works can easily understand this "non speaking" "out of jurisdiction" without power of law Order.


If you all are so concerned with this order & feel the pinch; why someone is not challenging it in a High court; preferably Delhi HC. It will will be struck down in just one hearing.

I totally agree with you..  There is no point in discussing & making this thread long.. If there are people willing to go the legal way that will help n make sense & will have some out come  

All those ASSOCIATIONS & Presidents of Associations creating long threads here convincing all to join the Association; it is the most important task on their platter in case they have time  8-)

Majority Public Opinion and Public Mandate makes up for the rule of the land in democracies. There is no two ways about it. If not so, even internet would have been illegal till date as it was since the day of its inception.

So discussing is it is the best way to make diaspora aware of about its pros and cons and for even making a counter argument in pro to fight it.

Don't get disheartened we have been an excellent copy cats all these years in all walks of our life's and we will not disappoint in this area too. Like how internet is legal now in India, in the years to come Drones will also become legal in India within a set of guidelines after its become legal in rest of the world.  ;D.

There are many other unwritten illegal stuffs in this world like alternative medicines, Soul transplant, alternative energy sources, Research on zero point energy, greater than 100% efficiency machines and many many more but that does not stop interests of the mavericks in these areas. Just don't be the cause of public nuisance while you are at it or cause damage to life and property involved in it. Respect the privacy of public.

I don't see a point in trying to fight it at this nascent stage legally before any actual law has been framed. Advisory issued is for the particular public nuisance creator. Why should a person who is not a pubic nuisance be worried about it. 

eminar on ‘India’s Internal Security & UAVs’
December 14, 2015, 0930-1400 Hrs, FICCI, New Delhi
 
 
Greetings from FICCI !
 
I am pleased to inform you that FICCI is organising a seminar on ‘India’s Internal Security & UAVs’ on December 14, 2015 at FICCI, New Delhi. As you are aware, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) or Drones can be easily used as guided missiles to target key locations and installations. Dealing with such threats can be difficult as it becomes complicated to fully understand the nature and scope of unconventional acts of terrorism.
 
Shri Rajiv Mehrishi, Union Home Secretary is likely to deliver keynote address during the Seminar and senior representatives of the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA); Department of Space (DOS); Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA); Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO); National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) and Indian Air Force (IAF) will participate in the seminar.
 
During the Seminar, we would like to emphasise on:
 
·         Discussion on Exploring Policy & Regulatory Challenges Posed by Civilian UAVs

·         Technical presentations on Technology and solutions which can aid in Airspace Management, control and overall safety from the use of UAVs (Tracking & Neutralising UAVs)

 
The participants will comprise senior representatives of companies engaged in: Tracking and Neutralising UAVs; Design, Development & Manufacturing of UAVs; Sensor & payloads manufacturers; R&D labs; Subject matter experts (academicians and researchers); and Foreign Diplomatic Missions in India.
 
We are pleased to invite you to join us for this programme. Kindly send us your confirmation along with the duly filled attached registration form to Mr PL Sharma at pl.sharma@ficci.com
 
We look forward to your kind confirmation.
 

FICCI is organising this workshop for UAVs. Interested people can share their concerns here.

@asinghatia,
I trust that before holding a seminar on 'Internal security and UAVs',
FICCI has held a seminar on 'Internal security and GUNS in India'
Man, the hypocrisy just stinks.
As if a few hundred or thousand aeromodellers are the next big threat to the nation!
Lets ban cellphones first, then cameras, then model airplanes.

 ;D agreed sir; thats why I shared here, in case someone wanna make a noise here.

Internal security and UAVs ! They think that UAVs are the number 1 threat to the nation or what? This type of discussion only serves to fuel the fire and instil fear in the mind of people who don't undertstand anything about it. Not a single terror attack has taken place so far using UAVs. As a nation India doesn't even have a capability to use an UAV to fire weapons. This is nothing but fear-mongering.

The opening line of the letter says "As you are aware, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) or Drones can be easily used as guided missiles to target key locations and installations." ..... is this how a rational person speaks?

Apparently, there is a representation of  companies engaged in Tracking and Neutralising UAVs but no hobbyists. Its just a money making ploy encashing on irrational fears. Someone from the hobbyist community must attend the event and make a presentation and counter their arguments...otherwise they will get a free-hand in spreading terror.

Well..... the security agencies think that the UAVs are the No 1 security threat in the country.  Wellllllll ok... lets us for once understand that Cameras are a bigger security threat as people are recording each and everything they see and are posting it on social media that very moment.  Lets also ban the cameras.  Wellllllllllll in the days gone by the IEDs were being detonated by use of mobile phones... did the Govt ever think of banning Mobile Phones???? Most of the old days bombs in Delhi and Punjab were detonated by use of a "Transister".......... did the Govt ban use of radios or transistors?????
The answer is no..... only regulation is the answer.

Discussion, debate!

I dread the day when there is an actual terrorist attack using an RC Aircraft. Not implausible. In fact, likely soon.

Then all aeromodellers will be classified as suspected terrorists  :(

Well said Sanjay Sir.
But we will keep aeromodelling alive because-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Z6P3uq87M
Very impotant thing told in this video is, If some one's life is in danger and we can help them by our machine we know it from inside.
Then what would be your answer?
1. Yes i'll try my best
        or
2.No DRONE(referring multirotors and fixed wing) are banned in India by DGCA.

One more incident to tell and discuss-
Last year in January 2015 we went to IIT Mumbai for participating in sp4mm3r.
Very disappointing thing happened to us-
We had 5 models(fixed wing) with all electronics in a big box.
also 7 robots with battery and all.
As we came out of our coach T.T. came and asked us that we'll hv to pay extra charges for our luggage.
Not even one police personal or himself T.T. asked what is inside the boxes?
While returning due to bigger size  coolly directly boarded our stuff in to train again NO SECURITY check!!
I was very disappointed to watch this. I saw that 26/11 movie and remembered that moment when some physio person started killing people due to week security system.

Drone no more a duty-free item from April 1 also prohibited item

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Drone-no-more-a-duty-free-item-from-April-1/articleshow/51210873.cms via @timesofindia


Hi Guys,
They are saying its a prohibited item ?? So shops can't sell drones now ??  :-[

Drone no more a duty-free item from April 1
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Drone-no-more-a-duty-free-item-from-April-1/articleshow/51210873.cms via @timesofindia

Just a thought.
Cant we work on a website like the FAA registration just to get the community together and give the DGCA a base? The registration could be free. Not like its compulsory but the Hobby community should acknowledge it and register themselves for the betterment of the hobby?
unfortunately im not a web designer :(

What do you guys think?


Mateen

just to give you some perspective .....

we are like a mosquito sitting on the back of an elephant.

We are one fat mosquito that the elephant can't kill  ;)
But can still make a difference. If we start somewhere.

@mateen270,
If you search on this forum for DGCA after about 12th Oct 2015, you'll get an idea of the efforts made by others.
I was perhaps the first to respond to DGCA, but then others even wrote to the PMO...
And made a lot of efforts.
Please do see.
If you have any new ideas or some really top level contacts, we'd all be glad to hear of them.
Meanwhile many others are already into the issue.
Regards

On the topic of import of drones, i ordered a parrot AR drone 2.0 last year from UK and it got stuck at customs, they haven't released it till date saying they need special DGCA permit for clearing the item....
i think there should be a hobby lisence, just like a DL. Get the lisence, get anything u want from anywhere after that and establish guidelines specifing where there is a no fly zone. That should help the community as a whole.

@Rathi thanks for the info ... Let me know if I can be of any help like signing a online petition .. Etc... And I have small 250 race quad ... But never take it to public places to capture video or photos.. Just fly at line of sight in vacant land .... It shouldn't be a problem rt ?

i dont think that it should be a problem, i do the same anyway... but if cops come just talk to them normally and u should be fine  ;D they cant question u in vacant public grounds or private lands...

Thanks... Hope fully there be a solution soon

Is it possible to fly a Rc blimp during a college fest in college campus? Will that land me in trouble? Just a thought!😀

Take permissions if the event is big

Well..... I am not sure what is the Aero Modellers Association of India is doing about it.... The Aims of the Association are as given below... But it appears they are not doing much or they are not keeping the general public informed of their interaction with the DGCA and other security agencies.  In my opinion it is time that the AMAI took serious steps to get the entire thing streamlined and if some sort of police record or other regulation is to be followed the AMAI must take the lead and get it resolved at the earliest.  Personally I feet let down by the senior members of the AMAI.  The best part it that the AMAI boasts of Air Chief Marshal AY Tipnis (Retd) as the chief patron.... with such senior a member as the chief patron I am sure getting the clearances should be a cakewalk for the AMAI..... but then?????

The aims of the AMAI can be accessed on this link... http://www.amai.in/aimobj.php

Further the AMAI has an affiliate member in the name of WINGS INDIA which is again a powerful organisation.....

Well if anyone of the members are here in the forum.... please get the DGCA to give the guidelines ASAP as the blanket Ban is not only affecting livelihood of a lot of people, it is working as a deterrent to advancement of the hobby in the country...  This also lets police and other agencies harass a well meaning hobbyist.....

Aims & Objectives of AMAI as given on their website..........

    To create a sense of brother hood, co-operation, mutual harmony, love and affection amongst the members of the association and amongst the General public.
    To facilitate the existing member hobbyist to pursue their activities.
    To ensure safety of flyers and third parties.
    To introduce a code of discipline amongst the faculty members conducive to better quality of flying.
    To promote the growth of the sport and hobby of model flying and other associated activities.
    To organize events and such other programs which might earn cognizance, acceptability and respect at the national and international level of the body to corporate.
    To encourage suitable candidates to participate on national level and international competitive environments
    To promote universal fellowship in faculty of aeromodeling.
    To accept donations, grants, presents, gifts and other offerings (in the shape of moveable or immovable properties) and the same shall be utilized for the promotion of Aims & Objectives of the above association
    To make representation to various authorities of Government, Semi-Government on behalf of the members of the association.
    To hold and to participate in conference, meetings, etc, for exchange of ideas and discussions of subject of the interest of the members of the association.
    To assist newcomers to the hobby in selection of model/equipment and provide flying training free of charge.
    Association will invest its surplus, money and funds according to Sections - 11 (5) of the Income Tax Act, 1961.

Well was searching the FAA against aeromodellers in the Developed World......  the results are here for all to see....

https://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/model_aircraft_operators/

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=75599

The issue has been resolved by the FAA to a large extent.... i.e. apart from a rouge element for which the laws are good enough to deal and see that the rouge element tastes the jail environment for a while at lease.

Hope our AMA or the Wings were doing their bit to ensure the hobby is legal and safe.... maybe we start to call these people and ask them to step in......

The topic of drones was brought to the Rajya Sabha's attention by a minister, H.P. Chaudry who said " flying drones by ORDINARY people is illegal in indian airspace. The DGCA is working on making guidelines on for use of drones. till these guidelines are out, no one is allowed to sell, buy or fly drones until special permission is taken/given.Till then it remains illegal. "
conclusion:
There is no definition of drones.
There is no general guidelines either.
Dont fly anything with a camera on it.

Very true Rathi...... but from our point of view.... the AMAI and Wings need to work with the DGCA to thrash out a worthwhile formula to get things legal..... hope someone out there is listening..... AMAI or the WIngs

We filed a RTI to know the status and here is DGCA Response attached.
Kumaran

That's welcome news from the DGCA...... well it seems that we are on the right track and the details are going to come out soon... maybe something like what the FAA has prescribed.  We may beed to register with the local police and maybe form a kind of a club to fly...

Well we could also ask about the expected timeline for the clearance to come as it is now over 2 years that the hobby is officially banned.  The second issue is of customs holding them for no reason when the dgca is not banning these toys.... we must ask this to the customs too.

http://ultratechlife.com/tech/more-turtles-hit-airplanes-than-drones-stop-the-drone-fear-and-ignorance/

There are trillions of birds in the sky at all altitude and whose probability of hitting an airplane is 1000 times more than a drone.

Hi, i have a question, if i order kit from hobbyking , will i face problems from customs and such for ordering it??

i was thinking of ordering these.


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__55569__Quanum_Venture_FPV_Deluxe_Quad_Copter_Set_w_DJI_FatShark_Afro_Parts_PNF_.html

and

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__89231__E_Turbine_TB_250_FPV_Racing_Quad.html


please let me know.

Thanks for the information Kumaran Sir.....

I had called DGCA some months back and they had told that they have sent the guidelines to respective ministry for approval..

http://airshowstuff.com/v4/2015/us-navy-blue-angels-will-transition-to-unmanned-aircraft-for-2018-season/

US Navy: Blue Angels Will Transition to Unmanned Aircraft for 2018 Season
(http://airshowstuff.com/v4/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/BLUCAVs_web-600x400.jpg)

What the Hell Guys ! I had won a Phantom 3 Standard from aliexpress Freebies its shipped from EMS its means I will not get it :(

And now..... it gets serious  :violent:

(https://s25.postimg.org/vb3ujnk1r/IMG_20160801_WA0019.jpg)

Sanjay sir , could you please post the source ? (Link to that site ? )

Sooraj, good thinking. The authenticity should be verified.

Someone sent it to me by WhatsApp. But it will be on the Ministry website

http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/NOT/NOT16/Notification_No.16_%28English%29.pdf

What does UAVs/UAS/RPAs/drones actually include? Only RTF/ARF quads/planes? What about parts like FCs, FPV equipment, etc?

You can write a RTI application to DGFT to clear your doubt.

so does this mean it's end of uavs in india unless some one manufactures in india ?

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I think this is a huge business opportunity. Some LHS already offer carbon fiber cutting. Why not design and cut your own frames?

Perhaps not pointing out other obvious components of the hobby is a better idea. Motors, ESCs, other parts can pass off as "engineering projects". The only issue is stuff that obviously looks like a quad/plane.

Yeah that's correct,  and it will become hard to get even car esc

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Gentleman,
We deal with C.....s everyday. They are more smart in making M...y than you and me..
Even before the above circular and Guidelines they objected that the parts can be used for UAV/UAS.
But, when we raised the matter to higher authorities and asked for official notifications they just left.
Now, they have notification and they know what to do.
Please note my experience above is for import on commercial scale.

They may ignore import for personnel use.

Please do not think that I am trying to object your personnel imports.
Many times RTI was useful to me to close their mouth. That was the reason I suggested for it.
For the c....s CX-10 and Skylark-II both are same. They always look in one direction that is M...y

If all of us work together, we can raise to DGFT to exempt the items for Hobby and recreational purpose from the above notification.

I agree Kumaran sir. We should do everything in our power to lobby again.

Unfortunately not all hobbyists are united. Some plane guys hate on multi guys, and some DJI guys hate on multi guys too.

Perhaps one of us should join the DGCA!

yes correct. .. what should we do to make that happen ??

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change.org
together we can make a draft and make it as a petition.

Would you like to create a petition? Then we can pass it around.

I will make a draft but will not create the petition.
Because, my act will be linked as commercial interest.

I guess there are a few petitions doing the rounds already with mention to imports of equipment and spares.

https://www.change.org/p/dgca-draft-guidelines-exemptions-sought-for-model-aircraft-for-recreational-hobby
https://www.change.org/p/directorate-of-general-civil-aviation-dgca-immediate-govt-regulation-change-regarding-recreational-rc-flying

Update: I just realized the one by RCI stands closed.

Sure, I'll be happy to post it, or one of the members will too.

The DGFT Notification just formalises the matter. DGCA will not issue clearance. So forget about importing UAVs legally.

Parts of UAV have NOT been included. Many of the parts have dual or multiple use anyway. And there are so many parts that it would be impossible to restrict them all. Even frames are not UAVs by any stretch of imagination. Most come disassembled anyway. Ask your overseas supplier to declare these as hobby frames, hobby motors, toy parts etc. just to be on the safe side instead of mentioning drones and quadcopters or multirotors.

Please DO NOT make RTIs or start petitions and give then further ideas to include parts in the restricted list. If you do that, they would just amend the DGFT notification and include the words "and parts" in it and that would be the end of the hobby. No point in asking for clarifications either.

If Customs objects to import of parts (they don't have legal backing) its better to fight that case to case. Take my word...very few customs officials know about the components of the hobby. Those who know are into the hobby anyway and won't like to damage the hobby.

Basically I find these change.org petitions worthless and waste of time. Those who know how government departments function would understand that you can't influence government policies through change.org petitions.

Our best bet would be to hasten the DGCA guidelines. Once DGCA finalizes the guidelines, getting the clearance of import of UAVs from DGCA would be easier.

***

well said.

Just came across this pdf from DGCA website:
http://www.dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20circular/AT_Circular%20-%20Civil_UAS(Draft%20April%202016).pdf

Not sure if this is the final or not.

Pretty much sums it up that you need to register each and every UA (rc plane, helis, quads, even micro park flyers). You might need a separate permit to fly, unless you stay below 200ft.

Its the draft one

 :banghead:

I doubt if they would publish the final one in this "Pakistan planning to attack India with drone" atmosphere.

RIP legal flying :)

Whats the update on DGCA permit or license ?

Don't worry guys, Its not illegal to fly Unmanned Arial Vehicle As long as you fly Away from Prohibited area and Extremely Crowded area and
below height of 200 feet. That's our government's safety concerns so don't be afraid of flying. :thumbsup:

1. Civil UA operations below 200 ft AGL in uncontrolled airspace and clear of
    notified prohibited, restricted and danger areas as well as Temporary
    Segregated Areas (TSA) and Temporary Reserved Areas (TRA). In addition,
    the operator shall obtain permission from local administration, the
    concerned ADC.
2. Model aircraft operating below 200 ft AGL in uncontrolled airspace & indoor
    UA for recreational purposes only. (Aero modelling activities carried out
    within the premises of educational institutions will be considered as
    recreational purposes)

If you want to fly higher then 200 ft then register your UAV. ;D
For operations at or above 200 ft AGL in uncontrolled airspace, the UA operator
shall file a flight plan and obtain necessary clearances with concerned ATS unit
and ADC. ;D

Enjoy Flying :hatsoff:

Links for Proof : http://www.dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20circular/AT_Circular%20-%20Civil_UAS(Draft%20April%202016).pdf

I like that attachment name

Its still a draft.
Its not an order yet.

http://www.rcindia.org/self-designed-diy-and-college-projects/research-project-study-on-'perception'-to-compliance-car-2-0-dgca-drone-policy/new/#new

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfG3klNiDe6JLRRhZ88fHiPHkV4bf-qroYM8T1sS6hYMP4jPw/viewform?usp=sf_link

Request for your response on this questionnaire a research topic on perception to DGCA policy..

Rrequest respondant to provide responses presuming you have an intention for commercial use and have a venture utilising drones/fixed wing for the same