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[rcpilotacro]

there is no question which is stupid, if absolute newbie posts, if you notice, i can talk for me,  i post the answer, search on behalf and post the thread. be bold and ask comment and participate.

PS
i remember russel peters says often in his stand up comedy "Be a ..."

[amit_delhi]

Thats the motive behind this thread to figure out reasons why people hesitate to post.

Amit may be a pm would accomplish the same purpose of motivation and encouragement.

Dont you think a public applause is better mode of encouragement than a private PM.

[rcforall]

Frankly being one of the early members  I  agree with gusty the forum has become more of a flee market , the quality of meaningful posts have dropped drastically I guess that is also the possible reason for members like Izmile ( my original inspiration for SPADS ) , Saju ( scientifically and technically one of the best I have come across : btw I dont know how many know here that he is the chief of R & D at an L&T Machines factory ) , Ashta ( not much needs to be said here  about him etc ) are conspicuous by their  absence or marginal presence .
I remember the early days of RCI where we used to have interesting discussions especially the long battle between myself and Anwar on the merits of 2.4 G Vs Mhz radios ( BTW Anwar I must admit 2.4 G is more or less wiped out Mhz radio's ).

I think the turning points as per my observations were :
1) Conversion of the forum into a flee market
2) Excessive discussions on HK the products , the services , postage etc etc (In case of these discussions I have found nothing that was not said or experienced before : but all the same HK related posts will possibly be the highest in terms of %  of all posts )

This is my opinion and I know I can be accused by some one of having vested interest due to these comments  as I also happen to be a seller , but all the same I think these two points were the ones that actually diluted the quality posts on the forum.

Sai

PS. : RIGHT AT MOMENT OF THIS POST  13/20 posts are related to Sales

PS. Anwar : It might be a good Idea to start a separate RC FLEE MARKET and automatically give access to all members of RCI there to trade , Charge a fee for sales made through the forum and use that to run RCI  and put a full stop to the flee market here .

[SideWinder]

Im not sure, but think the site reputation or statuses, upgrade as the count of posts increases or something like that
If thats the case, then a question arises on honesty of those words of encouragement?

Public encouragement is anytime better than Pm, but as far as i have experienced passion and willingness helps more to stick to this or any hobby than encouragement. Applause and encouragement stops after a certain point, but passion doesnt.

And there is a very thin line between "Being a man" and "being a foolish" when your a newbie, but patience helps a lot i must say, did my maiden yesterday 6-7 months after i got everything, but didnt go well.
And it made me more determined to follow RC flying

Will try my best to participate

[hyd_quads]

2) Excessive discussions on HK the products , the services , postage etc etc

@rcforall aka Mr.Sai
I don't agree with you on this completely. Because most people who get into RC have a minimum background in Tech. or basic logic, etc., most can solve their basic doubts and some other problems themselves either by reading or experimenting. Most problems which arise are already answered here and on zillions of sites on the web. If it doesn't get solved, it can be asked on the forum.
On the other hand, doubts and/or problems regarding shipping, customs, RC sites, etc are mostly unique. Almost every guy has something new to complain, ask and tell.
No offence here, I do agree that posts like '2.4GHz vs MHz' are more informative (and relevant too) than sales-shipping-customs threads.

Vineet

[rcforall]

@rcforall aka Mr.Sai
I don't agree with you on this completely. Because most people who get into RC have a minimum background in Tech. or basic logic, etc., most can solve their basic doubts and some other problems themselves either by reading or experimenting. Most problems which arise are already answered here and on zillions of sites on the web. If it doesn't get solved, it can be asked on the forum.
On the other hand, doubts and/or problems regarding shipping, customs, RC sites, etc are mostly unique. Almost every guy has something new to complain, ask and tell.
No offence here, I do agree that posts like '2.4GHz vs MHz' are more informative (and relevant too) than sales-shipping-customs threads.

Vineet

The Point I am saying is that  95 % of  info regarding HK's products or services or customs would have been  discussed within the first 100 posts all further posts is only repeat of the same thing .
What I mean to say is that HK/Import related matters would possibly have been beaten to death within the first 3-5000 post on the forum but they still keep being discussed at 1,00,000 post level.

sai

[rcpilotacro]

Absolutely with Mr Sai on HK bashing and praising, just the other day we had one on piracy and HK. in fact it is the story in most of the forums, HK figures predominantly in most discussions.

My point is entirely different, just now Karthik (Rcdhamaka) and i were having a discussion. Few points that emerged are:-

(a) say if a buildlog or something on the engine is posted, not praises but participation encourages the 'Poster' (Sorry VC, stealing your thunder more prominently).

(b) say i f a meaningful posts comes up and they are bashed with half baked knowledge, then the 'Poster' gets sort of pissed off.

(c) Apart from the fact that you are Forum Hero, Veteran etc, one could be classified about his RC Skills/ Building Skills etc as known in the small RC community. This could help someone who is starting off as to who's view is more important (though every view is as important, as long as it is view and not lol, awesome, cool and Bhendi (Mumbaikars would know)

Aim is to have more buildlogs, reviews, deeper discussion on products, skills etc basically this Indian RC Community has to become big, really big, have our own SEFF, Joe Nall, Top Gun equivalent such posts will kindle interest and hopefully more people will join/take up this hobby

[rcforall]

Aim is to have more buildlogs, reviews, deeper discussion on products, skills basically this Indian RC Community has to become big, really big, have our own SEFF, Joe Nall, Top Gun equivalent such posts will kindle interest and hopefully ore people will join/take up this hobby

Gusty ,

The two points identified by me above if you notice have nothing to do with what you have mentioned .
Nither do these points matter as far as serious discussion on technicality or skills are concerned .
So the more they dominate the discussions here  the more likely hood of those wanting serious discussions being put off.

I can tell you that this is the case at least  with 1/2  a dozen  persons I know who are members here .

Sai

[rcpilotacro]

Mr Sai

in the same breath, what i propose is, why dont all LHS converge and come together and have a real big meet with some good players participating, in all four corners of India, Real Big Event. i will provide all possible help, incl clearances, place etc

[rcforall]

Ready any time should be a good initiative , count me in on such and effort , first lets get down to a meeting , actually should not be tooooo much of a problem as RCB, RCD, Rotor,JRH and a few others re from south
sai

[essaargee]

"in the same breath, what i propose is, why dont all LHS converge and come together and have a real big meet with some good players participating, in all four corners of India, Real Big Event. i will provide all possible help, incl clearances, place etc"


Gusty, that is called the initiative and spirit !!
 VC, 

[RcBazaar]

good initiative... we are in from RCB.

Sujju

[izmile]

the quality of meaningful posts have dropped drastically I guess that is also the possible reason for members like Izmile ( my original inspiration for SPADS )

I do visit the forum occasionally. However, due to my limited time I just skim through the discussions here. Further, I am out of the hobby. So, I am taking a back seat and watching the happenings. I do agree that the noise floor has gone a bit higher but then I also see many members posting creative ideas. We need more of build logs - be it models, engines, electronics or something out of the ordinary.

[rcpilotacro]

LHS have a leading role to play, afterall, more people take up this hobby, more they will grow. Fragmented initiatives have been there, but then the initiatives needs to be supported by participation. here is one example,

http://www.rcindia.org/deals-and-special-offers/make-a-multiplex-build-log-win-free-multiplex-merchandise/

http://www.rcindia.org/free-donations-and-sweepstakes/tell-us-why-you-like-multiplex-win-free-merchandise/

where are the takers, where was any buildlog

[tg]

Lack of local events means we only get to hear what some one did once in a great while. We don't need one big event, but a yearly calendar of events however small in each of the cities where at least LHSes operate. Much like how any club associated with the AMA would do in the US.  But frankly we could take our attention off this thread and instead contribute what ever we do/have done in the hobby recently.

[rcpilotacro]

..but a yearly calendar of events however small in each of the cities where at least LHSes operate. Much like how any club associated with the AMA would do in the US.

LHS have to take the lead, more members more it will benefit the hobby and the LHS

[PankajC]

Personally, I have two issues.
Whenever I login to the forum, most of the time I am only seeing for sale posts. While I personally do not have any problem with this, but the point is maybe I am missing out rc related posts among all these trading posts. So best would be to have a separate tab/heading for all trading activities.

Secondly, I am also facing time crunch for visiting field so not much to update....

[gauravag]

rcpilotacro,
Wonderful and thought provoking post, and I have been wanting to post ever since this thread started, but been waiting ever since to find some time away from work to write and share my thoughts here.
 I particularly found this interesting,  because I would term myself as "guilty" here, perfectly fitting in the description you posted above as being one of the old members on the forum, and not really  contributing to it, except for on the ‘For Sale’ threads. Below are some of the thoughts I have on this.

1. First of all I would like to segment the kinds of posts that I see on RCI. This is considering, that I have check the forum nearly twice a day on average for the past three years.

a. RC / Technical know how - This pertains to building, flying skills, setups, electronics and technical questions.
This is where I think 1% of the total posts lie.
b. Knowledge/Information in context of India. ( RC stores, new stock arrivals, availability, postal system, events,  etc ) . This also includes stuff related to the forum, like this very thread.
This is where I think 29% of the total posts lie.
c. News and informational updates. New activities , updates, in the field of full scale or RC aviation.
This is where I think 10% of the total posts lie.
d. Trade listings (For sale/wanted) – Members wanting to sell off some of their stuff.
This is where I think 60% of the total posts lie.

Lets revisit the above. When it comes to sharing RC/Technical know how (as in point (a)  above), I feel  much of what is discussed, talked about, is either information that is already there, or is easily found on the internet .
If not, as in a few cases, then I feel there are many better places to discuss these topics and issues, like on International forums, eg RCG, Flying Gaints, HeliFreak.com and others.
Reason being, I find that there is a much better audience out there, with a better knowledgebase and more experience. In most cases,  I find my time better spent on these sites for reading and sometimes discussing general RC technical topics.

For example, suppose I were to start making a scratch built foamie or a multicopter. I would feel posting the build thread on the forum would not be a productive use of time, as there is hardly anything on this topic which has not been written, discussed and in some cases beaten to death elsewhere on the internet. In more than 99% of the cases, my queries would have been already answered and by using some basic search skills, I can find what I was looking for.
If I did come across something unique, like maybe with the control board, then either I would be much better off posting on say RCG at the KKboard thread or in one of the several build threads.

Likewise, if I were to start writing an article that shares my knowledge or experience, I would really think twice, for the reasons above, unless of course I was looking for self gratification or was wanting to invite a discussion with fellow aeromodellers, and in some of these cases Facebook and blogs have come into the picture.

Allow me to share one such example here. Last weekend,  it rained cats and dogs, and I got this idea to make an RC swamp boat ( something similar sells on HK on their website ) for my 4 year old son.
With some pieces of Depron, a servo, motor, prop  adhesives, and a few hours of work, we were all set to complete this and test run the boat in my backyard, which gets flooded after a strong downpour.
I thought of taking pictures and posting a thread here on RCI, but then who would benefit it ? No one really ! You can go to RCG and find build threads of much better boats, and find many more knowledgeable people on the subject there.

When I say there are only 1% of the total posts on this forum belong under this head, I mean it. Of course, in my opinion this counts only the posts that show true ingenuinity or discussions that hold some real merit in them. Most of the other so-called knowledge based posts are essentially either ‘fluff’ (perfect example of people asking help for multicopter projects) or knowledge/information easily found elsewhere , if someone so desires. Again no harm in posting and sharing, but they do not count towards the knowledgebase.

Lets move on to the second classification of posts: Knowledge/Information in context of India
This is the place, where I feel the forum plays an extremely important role. Excellent place to talk about the events and happenings in India, talk about people, talk about new stores or stocks coming in, or about the laws and regulations in general.  

I wish I could really contribute to here Unfortunately RC in India is not so easy. I stay in a city where there are only two other aeromodellers, out of them one is passive, and thus we have hardly anything to share in public. Its an effort to take out the time to visit the airfield, manage the public crowds that often come along, then often get into trouble with local police and in some cases defence forces as well ! With nothing over me to protect, I feel sometimes its best not to share much !

Lets look into the third classification I made. News and informational updates.
Again, though Facebook and other channels often provide me with quicker news feeds, Often I like to read about new happenings in the aviation domain on RCI. Thanks to Anwar for posting out new videos and articles, Unless I have read them out before, I definitely take the time to read through them.

Coming to the most debated topic For Sale threads.
One of the very big limitations, in this hobby is for sourcing stuff . And this is specially true in India ) .
In the last few years HK and LHS has offered some respite, but still more time and energy of an aeromodeller gets spent in waiting for and collecting the gear, spares and accessories than in actual building and flying.
I have been into RC since 1993. Tower Hobbies  ruled at that time.  Those days we had to keep a huge stockpile of everything. I remember ordering 5 extra sets for anything I needed, as it could be months before I could get any replacement, in the event I needed.
There is no denial, that things have changed now, but even today we need to stock a lot of things. Agreed that today the LHS has cut down the wait time to less than a week, but what about their own stock status ?

What I want to say is that, availability of RC gear is still a big thing today. Selling out stuff, or using the forum to sell out unused RC gear is not really about “using” the forum in a negative or bad way. It helps at both ends, for the seller  to continually look for a better home for their gear, and for the buyer side, an economical, hassle free and quick way to get the gear.

I consider myself to be an tech-hopper. I love playing with new technologies/gear only to learn how they work, and once I feel I have a fairly good understanding of things I move on to try something new. Unfortunately I am constrained by budget and floor space, so need to regularly cycle out the gear.  In order to get into something new,  I often need to part with some of my current stockpile of RC gear.This is where all my sale threads come into the picture. I figure it’s a similar case with many other members.
I would also like to note that each sale that I make, if looked at from a monetary point of view, is at a loss.

For some sellers who also come to the forum to predominantly sell things, I feel they also do nothing bad, unless they cheat or fail to deliver on their promises.

Re-iterating the above, using the forum to only participate in For Sale threads is not a bad thing at all.

I consider the sale and trade threads to be a very important part in the existence of this forum.

I would also like to mention, that I come to this forum from the days when IRC existed. One of the reasons of the demise of IRC and the transition of several old members ( including myself ) was about the strict and policing attitude of moderators there.
The good thing about this forum here was it was open, free, unlimited and you did not feel there was someone always going to moderate you at all times.

Humble request to all moderators, to keep up the original spirit of freedom here. Lets keep it an open forum and not make too many rules and laws, and let the members feel they own it, and not where they get always judged or commented upon.


Concluding my post, I would like to answer What do I contribute to the forum ? First of all by being there. I check the forum and usually all the posts there at least twice a day. Given the need, I make a post, but usually I find people who know more ahead of me in the queue and thus I hold back my words. Next, I give out some good deals and share my unused inventory to the members.  Lastly, by telling all newcomers and those who express any interest in RC to visit and register at RCI as the very first step before they continue with their adventures in this lovely hobby.


Thank you for your time in reading my post above, and pardon me for anything that I may have said or expressed incorrectly,
Gaurav.

[PankajC]

Gaurav,
Nice thoughts. However, I would still like to only read about the 1st two categories - as listed by you and not really interested in the others. So personally would like their percentage to be more visible. Not saying trading activities is bad, but if there were a provision to personalize the content based on preferences it would be more meaningful for me.

Pankaj

[rcpilotacro]

Gaurav
As regards (a) Very eloquently put, i agree when it comes to tech know how, in the other forums most of it is beaten to death. However over hundreds of posts, there is one worth while info, else, mostly it is one liner kudos, smileys and such things, for a newbie (Or for a impatient guy like me)it could be intimidating, irksome. It is difficult to gather knowledge on two counts (a) in terms of sifting through all the unwanted post (b) the language per se, is not Indian, lot of jargon which is alien to most of us. Few points needs to looked at from a different point of view, those are:-

(i) Our own guys posting things could border on self gratification, agreed, nothing wrong with, non euphemistically put, 'showing off', while self gratifying if he actually learns that it is not afterall worth self gratifying, through discussion he is that much more wise.

(ii) RCG or any other "More Knowledgeable" forums haven't become more knowledgeable overnight, people took pain and effort to post discussions there and members contributed to make it so. Overtime, if we put in effort and post discussions here, there is no reason why we cant be one such RCG, i may sound quixotic. Can you beat an Indian on brains? we may lack the hardware, that will come to india in times to come. see the advances in last two years alone. the graph is upwards, by posting interesting stuff that one did, it will only help this graph.

(iii) Say someone posts how to make a quad (Personally if feel, it is probably the easiest to make and least skill required to fly, be that as it may) with his 'limited Indian knowledge', other complete newbie (to quad, not essentially to RC) from the same town or nearby place knows whom to contact and what to discuss as he already has the original post for reference.

As regards (b)
any small meet that you have at your location could be posted in "what RC activity did you do this week" or your own personal thread. This once again fall in the realms of 'Self Gratification", (a) what's wrong with that ? (b) it serves as motivation to many joining this hobby (c) anyone from that town or nearby place wants to try RC, googles and stumbles upon this thread say for example "Rc activities of Timbaktu", he reaches the field and voila! there, he has a start point for guidance etc.

atleast RC activities of local locations could be posted (While self gratifying), members don't even post that, this 10% could be notched up further, atleast holds the potential to go beyond 10% isn't it ?.

(iii) Anwar Bhai couldn't have been more clear, when he recently, clearly elucidated, the basis of forming this forum was to have a place where you could sell freely. i dont think there is ever any doubt on that. he said so so long back as well (one of the first posts i read before joining i guess)

Don't know if you can, but I smell freedom here !  
Finally, I see hobby shops openly competing for business in a professional manner, ultimately benefitting the hobbyist.  Links of competing products are being thrown around liberally, and merits and demerits are being discussed !  
We are living in interesting times !  Free times !

I draw you attention to this comment

"i only visit the forum to sell my old stuff, like an online garage sale,"

If you look at what this gentleman said, and since points 'a' to 'c' are logically ruled out (some completely and some to some extent) then Indian Forum exists only 'for sale', for knowledge we go elsewhere ?

my 2c bit, may be i am completely wrong and i am, with an open mind ready to be educated


PS
Gaurav, believe you me, certain points that you have covered, has been taken well and i have chagned my stand point on certain aspects as i have seen things in a new light. It is just that, i thought since brains lie here, there is no reason why we cant be the cradle of it..IF, and IF only we could get people to contribute, doesn't matter if it beaten to death elsewhere and is self gratifying.

[hyd_quads]

I've realised this thread is for discussions among some of the big-shots of Indian RC world who know real RC, but may I say this:

I consider the sale and trade threads to be a very important part in the existence of this forum.

+1 to that.

I feel if it's important that the forum contain knowledgeable and informative threads, then it's equally important to have sales and trades, especially trade of pre-owned items. It really helps beginners to get started in RC at a very low cost.
But ofcourse, it's more important to have threads on info than sale/trade threads.

Vineet

[rcpilotacro]

I've realised this thread is for discussions among some of the big-shots of Indian RC world

Vineet! on the contrary no, most oldies (Incl me ) are mostly dogmatic and have a rigid point of view. young generation's point of view could blow old dogma to smithereens! so ? keep it coming

[shadman_alam]

So who's is hosting the event n where? I know rcforall has been actively promoting such eventz nit trichy n warangal.. Im sure RCB n RCD will be joining the league as well... Unless its not a combined effort, it will be difficult to make it big.. Atlanta hobby in US had taken their entire store to SEFF 2012 in vans.. and many local stores had joined them..

And i totally agree with the seniors.. .Forum is being adultrated with sale threads n HK discussions.. IMHO sale threads n HK reviews should not be highlighted as new posts.. If you want to buy/sell stuff you should visit the sales page.. And u can find items for sale there.. No freedom lost n no rights unruled...pretty simple.. Well thats just a thought..
 
shadman

[anwar]

I have been considering removal of classifieds from the "recent posts" and "recent topics" lists.  Again need a bit of dev, whenever item permits, it will be a first priority item.

[PankajC]

+1 to rcpilotacro.

People need to post regularly to add to the knowledge base. I remember, when I was just starting out about 3 years back, Anwar, Sai and a whole lot of others did provide lot of guidance. Really I did not feel the need to go elsewhere.

I am sure there are lot of guys like me who are in need to friendly advice or otherwise lot of folks posting their experiences etc on the forum. If we could only remove the clutter of the trading threads, maybe the forum would not appear 'less knowledgeable' and folks would not feel the need to go elsewhere

Pankaj