RC India

I am working on a new project of VTOL Tilt-Rotor with Thrust Vectoring mechanism . I have 4 servos and 4 motors with me for the purpose and i need ideas for Maneuverability of the VTOL when in Plane Mode .
If you have any ideas please share it here , will be highly appreciated :)
The current and main idea i have as of now is to link the motors on the right side together ( with the help of a servo with a common shaft  ) and then the left sides one , so when both of the motors in the left side have more angular unbalance that the one on the right , due to this the VTOL will tilt to one side and - i'm guessing - that it can thus turn to that direction .

PLEASE help me out here :)

four lift motors ? where is the forward thrust motor ? servo on the canard in forward flight will counteract (Imagine down tilted canard, will pith the aeroplane down dangerously). common shaft ? explain.

My verdict

not a viable design

What if you start thinking of this as multi-rotor (quad in this case), design it like that as long the frame goes and run the motors via multi-rotor control board? The design of the fuselage can be anything which easily fits on the motors. I am just throwing ideas.   ;D

yes , 4 lift motors -
The thrust will be controlled via the servo linked to the bottom 2 motors ( WRT the image ) and another servo linked to the above 2 motors .

 depicting -

|         --- Thrust will be downwards , VTOL in quad mode , normal functions like a quadcopter .

\         --- With the help of servos , the motors will be tilted so the thrust's direction can be directed ( say 30' tilt )

-         --- Full 90' tilt for max thrust directed behind the VTOL and here it will go in a plane mode ( all 4 rotors tilted backwards )



Is it clearer ?

and regarding the placement of the 2 servos , it will be placed approximately in middle of the frame for better weight balancing ..

ans salam , the motors will tilt , it it wont be having any fuselage ...

four tilt rotor for forward flight will have to a (a) have heavy tilt mechanism, that can overcome the property of 'Rigidity' of a spinning rotor (b) Issue of asymmetric thrust in forward flight will have to be catered for (c) why Canard (d) Why Quad ? tri is better option (e) Most difficult portion is translation from hovering to forward flight (Osprey failed here badly, two decades on they are yet to sort out this issue) (f) what is the backup plan in case of one/two motor failure/sub optimal performance

Salam, has a point, in fact we worked on this idea for sometime, two/three forward motor is not required so after vertical take off two motors shut down and cover themselves (Because in for a forward flight there will be pressure leak which will lead to loss of lift), one thrust motor

ok .. points noted :)

so , youre saying that i should power up only 2 motors when in plane mode ? ( i could use the rear 2 as a backup then )
wont having 2 instead of 4 affect speed and max thrust ???

I was thinking more on these lines. Tilt rotor is a complicated design in my opinion.

With a multi rotor like the one in the image, you can build around any plane design/fuselage.

hmmm , thats interesting but wanted something cool looking :D ... But , my main query was that how am i supposed to maneuver it while its in plane mode ? .. im asking like how is it done in RC Planes ?

I am also have planning to build one like you but I m using hk kk2 for vtol and for plane mode just tilting the motors using servo speed regulator using aux channel and the same time disable the auto balance in board.
Waiting for esc's to come from hk after that I can start work on plane

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And may need some programming in board to control yaw pitch and ailerons in plane mode using normal servo
Just like x19
 

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In a quad design and it is always setup as a plane (acro 4 channel) and not like a heli mode in the radio. The spinning direction of props in a multi rotor (two in clockwise and the other two counter clockwise) at different speed achieve its directional movements. Very cheaply available multi rotor control boards makes this task very easy of precisely and accurately spinning four or any number of props at different speeds.

... but RC Planes have a different system right ? im asking about that .

Hi man, instead of using 4 motors use only 3,i too had a plan of using 3 edf unit mechanism.
2 motors at the rear end use it mainly for propulsion using servo controls & the other at the centre of nose i.e at front use  it while vtol or hoovering,keep that fixed. So while vtol or hoover use all 3 motors &while in plane mode shut-off the front motor,but here comes the problem  i dint find any solution to shut down the front motor while in plane mode.

then it will become a tri-copter ... :P ...

ok, ill try that , but at-least let me know the control mechanisms of a RC-Plane ? .. ?

one more thing , how is the idea of using ducted fans in place of the regular props. ?

http://rc4all.co.in/product_info.php?cPath=130&products_id=695

Like this Eg, just asking .

U have the same control mechanisms as that of a plane,& i suggest u to use delta wing,so a channel will be left to control the  2 rear motors. Throttle,Aileron,elevator or rudder if needed.

The edf is great,and will be good for fixing servo controls. Go ahead

delta wing ? .. could you bit more specific ? im new to all the stuff :D

Man do a google search, & u will get all the answers.1st know some basics about rc planes and then go ahead.

+1, gautam, what is your age ?

im 20 , doing mechanical engg .

i couldnt get anything after googling for EDF ... whats that ?

ELECTRIC DUCTED FAN  (EDF) --  The link you already saw.. Gautam
http://rc4all.co.in/product_info.php?cPath=130&products_id=695

ok , but what difference will be noticed with the EDF vs normal props ?

i have this kit with these parts :

http://www.rc-fever.com/alloy-450-quadcopter-aircraft-combo-kit-not-assembled.html

Well,i know its a bit easy to connect servo controls to edf than a simple motor-propeller combination. The latter one you need some patience to make frames which is not so easy. Also the edfs are  small  in size than those propellers.

well i dont plan on designing the frame myself but AEROVISHNA will help there ( for a fee XD ) ..

Ohh,then its great

but i still need ideas on the mid air maneuverability .. how about using Ailerons with a single servo to one and second to another ?

Ohh,great thats called  thrust  vectoring,you can use it as ailerons

how exactly ?

 See in a plane you have 2 servos connected to each wings individually.these two servo works in reverse direction with respect to each other when connected to a same channel using Y adapter  Thats a conventional plane model mechanism. Now in case of using those servos for wings you can directly connect  them to two of your motor and thats called thrust vectoring. 

ok ... Y cable will make servo work in opposite direction on a single channel ? .. awesome :D ... so this takes care of the roll  of the plane ... how about the turning ?

No no Y cable,doesnt make the servo work in reverse direction, its the way of positioning ur servo that makes it work.

U can steer using rudder or ailerons

ok got it ... and how exactly will i do that ?

and i have a 6ch tx , will it be enough ?

Yep,its enough,u can make it work only with 4 channels

i mean for all the functions ... using as a quad and the extra controls ..

Use channel 1 for throttle,channel 2 for elevator,3 for aileron and u can use channel 4 for tilting those  motors while VTOF

Hi man those are universal remotes u can use it for heli,planes,car etc

awesome :D

Hi man can i come 2 ur place??bcz tomorow i will be in bbsr

Use common servos for  aileron and rudder

ya sure ! ive actually PMed you regarding this :) ill give the address and time ?

8093557613 - you can contact me here . I will be having my exam today so will be free between from 1:30 to 4:00 , contact me for the common place .

no contact :P

parichya.gautam
do have any plan about the motor tilt Mechanism  if you have can you share it .
 

' Plans ' as in ? im yet to make a 3-d model or simulation of the mechanism via Catia or Auto-Cad , but as of now it will basically be like the motor and the prop will be fit at the edge of the each wing and the titling mechanism will be set at the joint where the motor and the wing meet ... so that's what

Well, reading the total blog i wish to say a few basic steps you may like to follow:
DESIGN:
1. Do your homework on the design, speak to a few senior people here which would help to understand the plane you want to build better.
2. Experimental aeromodels by hobbyists are mostly designed from instinct, itellect and experience, i have never heard of people designing aeromodels from CATIA simply coz its not really required. However i appreciate your enthusiasm in it, pleased o go ahead with it. You may want to design it in CATIA V5/ProE, mesh it in HYPERMESH and analyze it in MSC/NX NASTRAN if you are intersted later, no pun intended. It would definitely give you good knowledge and understanding.

FLYING:
1. Do you have any prior RC flying experience, i guess not??
2. If you are a beginner and wish to fly a Canard delta aircraft of your own make, i would say its a rather high spirited idea but might prove costly. Learn flying for starters and go ahead with the plane later. Otherwise request some local flyers to help you learn it.
3. Get a clear idea on types of stablizers in all axes(yaw,pitch and roll) and how you can mix a pair of controls etc.
4. Learning to fly is very important, only that can give you an understanding of how to manipulate flight direction/attitude by control surfaces. No theory or reading would substitute for actual flying experience.

As Mod said, an opposition exists if you are trying to change the axis and plane of motor's, rigidity and precision as these are called are the basis of most of the Blind flying panel instruments in an aircraft cockpit. so i dont think a single servo moving two motors is justified!

It would probably be really feasible as Salam said if you just build a quad and fit a fuselage of your choice!
Please do keep us posted!!

parichya & shyam, have you seen a movie called Heat (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113277/)  Starring Al Paccino and Robert Di Niro ?

@Speedbird.va1 :

Yes true i'm  a newbie to all of this and do have a LOT of doubts , will really be helpful if Someone like you is there to guide me through this ? Any place i can contact you for this , Facebook perhaps ?

@rcpilotacro :

No , why ?